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Go Team Venture

And now I’m kind of over it... (SPOILERS)

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feckyerlife
On 12/11/2018 at 1:32 AM, Go Team Venture said:

Arthur is sick. He’s not going to get better. And try as I might, I just don’t care much about the game now. It’s not like I didn’t know he’d get killed somehow... I guessed Arthur disappearing to Fiji or some place was a slim possibility as to why he’s not mentioned in RDR1, but more than likely, I figured he’d get shot to pieces by Pinkertons or whatever. So it shouldn’t matter... But it does. I have zero motivation to level him up any more or seek out special gear with him. If I could skip to the epilogue where apparently you play as John Marston, and then just do stranger missions, I would. This storyline just stopped the game in it’s tracks for me...

In the first game i never understood the Redemption part. It always felt like John was just muscled into arresting or killing everyone, he never seemed like he cared for the gang or much of anyone, you never really got that whole Redemption feeling that the game is suppose to be about, it always felt like a great western/cowboy game but i just never got the feeling of Redemption, but you did get the feeling of Revenge from the game with Jack killing Ross at the end. On to the new game, Chapter 1-5 still feels the same way just like a great cowboy game, would've been better off just being called Red Dead. But then you get to Chapter 6, which might be/is the greatest ending Rockstar has ever told (I only played with a high Honor system, you might've played with a low which is why you feel the way you do?). You understand what Redemption is for Arthur  and what Redemption is for both games at that point. Words just can't express how great of ending it is, almost magical.  

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Cutter De Blanc

That's not what I'm saying.  I liked the story. Arthur's death was a good death, but it's f*cking depressing all the same. I'm torn, because the brilliant narrative is at odds with satisfying gameplay.

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UKPortista

I look back on the last 6 weeks of playing RDR2 with very mixed feelings. Chapters 1-6 were an absolute joy - some of the most engaging, fun and emotional hours I've ever put into gaming.

 

However, I felt (and still feel) very resentful at having to conclude the story (the epilogues) with a character I cared far less about.

 

With hours of gameplay still ahead, I wrongly assumed - going into the finalé of Chapter 6 - I would be finishing this epic journey with the character I fell in love with (despite that characters fate having already been sealed earlier in the story). To not be able to that left me feeling somewhat cheated.

 

Had I known then what I know now, I would never have gone into that 'point of no return' final mission of Chapter 6 without doing everything possible beforehand (collectibles,  side missions etc).

 

I have since gone back to a previous save point to do that but it feels hallow and bittersweet.

 

Whilst I applaud R* for creating an enthralling narrative and a protagonist I would care about deeply, the overall experience has left me feeling very blue.

 

Sorry for the rambling,  just needed to get that out.

 

Edited by UKPortista

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Killtacular
4 hours ago, Nutduster said:

 

What on earth are they supposed to do exactly?  The story is the story.

At what point did I write about changing the story lol, I liked every part of the story just empathising with the Op about how Arthurs illness impacts the game especially  free roaming...

 

What I was hoping for was all weapons, animal (pelts) horses etc to be available to Arthur at the begining of future play playthroughs. Some things that have nothing to do with the story are locked behind missions and the epilogue

Edited by Killtacular

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SonOfLiberty

I have to admit on my first save it left me feeling hollow switching to John. Weirdly enough I don't ever remember feeling like that when we switched to Jack in Red Dead Redemption. I guess I just felt more attached to Arthur.

 

I think it might also have a lot to do with the fact it was genuinely depressing watching Arthur slowly die from his illness and knowing John ends up dying anyway makes it feel a bit strange. I really wanted to see New Austin, but just didn't have the motivation to do it with John. If I were me I would've chosen Charles or Sadie as end game protagonists as it probably wouldn't have felt quite as depressing.

 

I have to give R* one thing though. They had balls to redo the same kind of ending twice.

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PapasHota

The story goes downhill by chapter 3 and only pick up by the epilogue that was by far the best part for me.

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Journey_95

Arthur getting sick was a very smart move by Rockstar, made his character way more compelling. Keep playing dude

33 minutes ago, PapasHota said:

The story goes downhill by chapter 3 and only pick up by the epilogue that was by far the best part for me.

Nah Chapter 6 is the best, also I would easily put 3 and 4 above the first two as well. Unlike many I liked the epilogue but it was just set up for RDR1

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saintsrow
2 hours ago, UKPortista said:

[snip]

 

With hours of gameplay still ahead, I wrongly assumed - going into the finalé of Chapter 6 - I would be finishing this epic journey with the character I fell in love with (despite that characters fate having already been sealed earlier in the story). To not be able to that left me feeling somewhat cheated.

 

Had I known then what I know now, I would never have gone into that 'point of no return' final mission of Chapter 6 without doing everything possible beforehand (collectibles,  side missions etc).

 

I have since gone back to a previous save point to do that but it feels hallow and bittersweet.

 

Whilst I applaud R* for creating an enthralling narrative and a protagonist I would care about deeply, the overall experience has left me feeling very blue.

 

Sorry for the rambling,  just needed to get that out.

 

I think every player that hasn't already dumped RDR2 single player in the bottom of their game bin, or sold it back to GameStop, has a save branch from Chapter 2, 3 or 4, that they use to get some replayability out of the game.  i feel bad for anyone who played through on Autodave and doesn't have an old save point.  They'll have to go back and play those first chapters again, if they even give a crap.  

 

I'm playing from an old Arthur save, so I can just explore, and I'm also playing from a John Marston save after his ranch is set up, and before any bad sh*t starts happening to him.  

 

 

1 hour ago, Miamivicecity said:

 

I have to give R* one thing though. They had balls to redo the same kind of ending twice.

I wouldn't call this "balls."  I'd call it cop-out, and not all the good of a story ARC, IMO.  It's easy to write stuff when you plan to blow it all up at the end, instead of having it all come together, with consistent theme and symbolism and meaning.  

 

The 2 years of trailers and pre-game hype built up Arthur as a protag for the ages, but then in the actual game, he was kind of an ambivalent, frankly weak, presence, IMO again.  

 

The ending of RDR1 was nihilistic, and now RDR2 is, also.  I never played through very much of the original Red Dead, so I don't know if it was a downer also.  I'll have to check the wiki.  

 

Edited by saintsrow

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Xerukal
1 hour ago, Miamivicecity said:

I have to admit on my first save it left me feeling hollow switching to John. Weirdly enough I don't ever remember feeling like that when we switched to Jack in Red Dead Redemption. I guess I just felt more attached to Arthur.

 

I think it might also have a lot to do with the fact it was genuinely depressing watching Arthur slowly die from his illness and knowing John ends up dying anyway makes it feel a bit strange. I really wanted to see New Austin, but just didn't have the motivation to do it with John. If I were me I would've chosen Charles or Sadie as end game protagonists as it probably wouldn't have felt quite as depressing.

 

I have to give R* one thing though. They had balls to redo the same kind of ending twice.

I actually felt an odd kind of reassurance and comfort when we switched to John. Especially during "Jim Milton Rides, Again?" 

 

It felt so right. Familiar, in a good, reassuring way. Like we were finally moving towards the ultimate chapter of the van der Linde gang's story. That is to say, RDR1 as a whole. The feel of the first game was starting to come back with John and the accompanying music. Blackwater, the surrounding areas and New Austin only further bridged this thematic gap for me.

 

It was like, yeah, we know what happens to John. We know how sad the ending to his tale is. But damned if the game doesn't make me forget about all of that when I'm bonding and hanging around with all the people at the ranch. Makes me wish I could just freeze that small pocket of time and keep it that way, forever.

 

 

Edited by Xerukal

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Xerukal
22 minutes ago, saintsrow said:

I wouldn't call this "balls."  I'd call it cop-out, and not all the good of a story ARC, IMO.  It's easy to write stuff when you plan to blow it all up at the end, instead of having it all come together

They did have it come together, though. Arthur's story had a beautiful flow throughout the whole game, even more so if you did some of the side missions pertaining to his character. His sacrifice is ultimately made pointless by John because of his inability to let go of Micah. Leading to Ross discovering his corpse, which leads to John being tracked down and forced into the events of RDR1.

 

It's a brilliant tragedy. Arthur was against revenge killing for the entire game. Always heeding against it. It's incredibly sad but fitting that the new life he helped give to John & his family was ruined by that same cycle of revenge. Even sadder is that Jack ends up the exact same way. 

 

It all comes together in the end. It's not very cheery or sweet, but it is incredibly thematically consistent. 

Edited by Xerukal

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jje1000
1 hour ago, Xerukal said:

They did have it come together, though. Arthur's story had a beautiful flow throughout the whole game, even more so if you did some of the side missions pertaining to his character. His sacrifice is ultimately made pointless by John because of his inability to let go of Micah. Leading to Ross discovering his corpse, which leads to John being tracked down and forced into the events of RDR1.

 

It's a brilliant tragedy. Arthur was against revenge killing for the entire game. Always heeding against it. It's incredibly sad but fitting that the new life he helped give to John & his family was ruined by that same cycle of revenge. Even sadder is that Jack ends up the exact same way. 

 

It all comes together in the end. It's not very cheery or sweet, but it is incredibly thematically consistent. 

It's very interesting how it almost feels like two games- and as if the epilogue is supposed to flow seamlessly into RDR1, which is why I guess why people want a remake that much.

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GTAgamerWyald
2 hours ago, saintsrow said:

 I wouldn't call this "balls."  I'd call it cop-out, and not all the good of a story ARC, IMO.  It's easy to write stuff when you plan to blow it all up at the end, instead of having it all come together, with consistent theme and symbolism and meaning.

 

I wouldn't call it balls as well, but definitely not a cop out either. It's certainly a repeat of the plot device used in red dead 1 but re-thought differently and very well executed as it allows for character development and serves as a consequence for the life that main character has led.

Edited by GTAgamerWyald

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jje1000
43 minutes ago, GTAgamerWyald said:

I wouldn't call it balls as well, but definitely not a cop out either. It's certainly a repeat of the plot device used in red dead 1 but re-thought differently and very well executed as it allows for character development and serves as a consequence for the life that main character has led.

Agreed- I like the way this article puts it, in which John's and Arthur's stories are framed very differently despite having the same fate- the emotional gravity is different in each case, which ultimately makes each story unique.

 

https://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2018/10/25/red-dead-redemption-2-and-the-love-song-of-j-arthur-morgan/

 

That being said, they simply cannot use this plot device again in RDR3 or it'll become a trope and people's eyes will start rolling.

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Jutland
On 12/13/2018 at 2:00 AM, saintsrow said:

I think every player that hasn't already dumped RDR2 single player in the bottom of their game bin, or sold it back to GameStop, has a save branch from Chapter 2, 3 or 4, that they use to get some replayability out of the game.  i feel bad for anyone who played through on Autodave and doesn't have an old save point.  They'll have to go back and play those first chapters again, if they even give a crap.  

 

Interesting.

 

I have only just finished the story for the first time, but I gathered a while ago that it would be better if I made a mid-story save, so I made some saves in chapters 3 and 4. After Arthur got TB I was glad I did, especially when the epilogs started because John seemed such a misery of a character. My plan was to finish the story and then go back to chapter 4 and explore as Arthur.

 

But now the story is done, and I have changed my mind. 

 

I saw Arthur’s grave while sitting through the credits so the obvious thing to do after finishing the game was to find that grave. And that cannot be done as Arthur, by definition, because it’s Arthur’s grave. You can only find it as John. So I explored all around the mountain where Arthur had died. Didn’t find it. Had to go online in the end for a bit of guidance. Ok it’s up by Bacchus station. Went there and found it. And oddly it gave me a sense of closure to Arthur, which was a feeling I was not expecting to get. Yes he was great and everything, but he is dead, truly dead and buried, and the game moves on. It’s John’s game now. So I started exploring as John.

 

Exploring the world as John has a bitter-sweet feeling of nostalgia that I didn’t get while exploring as Arthur.

 

When you explore as Arthur, everything is new. But when you explore as John, you are to an extent re-treading the ground that Arthur walked. So each place that John comes to brings back memories of what Arthur did there, like free a kidnap hostage or go fishing or get caught in an ambush or something. Every place has associations. Which drives nostalgia. I find that a more poignant and emotionally engaging experience. It’s not a feeling I have ever had in a computer or console game before, a feeling of nostalgia for the game even while the game itself is stil playing.

 

So I am happy to free roam as John now.

 

All IMO of course. Apologies for the ramble.

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UncleTacitus

After my first playthrough, I wanted to get rid of John as fast as I could, even though I'd liked him in the first game. Playing as John after all we went through with Arthur didn't seem right for me somehow... But now, after the second playthrough, I am more open to the idea of free roaming as John. I still feel very disappointed about not being able to explore the world in it's entirety as Arthur, the OP Bounty Hunters in West Elizabeth/New Austin really bum me out, but I guess my second playthrough was sort of a therapy session that helped me to 'get over' Arthur's death.

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Boozey St John

I'll be honest, 

 

I kept thinking that Arthur would get better. To be fair, I was in denial. 

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Morgan

I already thought that Arthur would die. But illness was not something that I had taken into account...Still, I hoped that in one way or another he could flee from his past and build up a nice existence far away from the gang.

But to be honest, the sickness is way more realistic. Despite the fact that I would rather have had a nice ending for him, I really enjoy my last moments with Arthur; every sunset, every landscape or setting up camp on the top of a mountain knowing that Arthur is'nt around in the beautiful world for much longer. It is something I never experienced before in a game. It feels so strong because illness can hit us all in real life and deep down we are all 'afraid' when the time comes just like Arthur.

Edited by Morgan

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O.Z
15 hours ago, Boozey St James said:

I'll be honest, 

 

I kept thinking that Arthur would get better. To be fair, I was in denial. 

Rockstar should have surprised us and kept Arthur alive, instead they just followed the same formula as before in RDR. John dies and you play as Jack. Here Arthur dies and you play as John. What you got planned for us next in RDR3 Rockstar? Let me guess: you play as Dutch’s mother and when she dies you play as Arthur. 

Edited by O.Z

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SonOfLiberty
32 minutes ago, O.Z said:

Rockstar should have surprised us and kept Arthur alive, instead they just followed the same formula as before in RDR. John dies and you play as Jack. Here Arthur dies and you play as John. What you got planned for us next in RDR3 Rockstar? Let me guess: you play as Dutch’s mother and when she dies you play as Arthur. 

I have to admit besides the touching moment when Arthur gives John his hat as a way of "passing the torch" Arthur's actual death didn't really hit me that hard. I mean I missed him when I was playing the epilogue when I realised he was gone, but the death despite how beautifully it was done kinda didn't make me feel anything. No shock. Nothing,

 

I knew Arthur was a goner from his deteriorating state of health, but John's death just came out of nowhere. He thought his life was being pieced back together, but the way he made his last stand in front of Ross's men trying to defend himself only to be shot to sh*t is a thing of legend and one of the greatest endings in a video game. It was genuine shock value no one saw coming. If I compare the two Arthur's fate was probably a little more realistic, but for pure cinematics and "WTF just happened?" John's was/is so much more effective as at that time R* had never killed off one of their protagonists like that (Vic doesn't count).

 

However R* have overused the angle that it's become a bit of a cliche. LA Noire, both Red Dead games and GTA V have all used death endings so it would actually be a shock and surprise to see a protagonist make it to the end unscathed in their next game.

 

 

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O.Z
32 minutes ago, American Venom said:

I knew Arthur was a goner from his deteriorating state of health, but John's death just came out of nowhere. He thought his life was being pieced back together, but the way he made his last stand in front of Ross's men trying to defend himself only to be shot to sh*t is a thing of legend and one of the greatest endings in a video game. It was genuine shock value no one saw coming.

John’s death > Arthur’s death. 

 

John Martson is such a legend that it took half a village to kill him in the end. 

 

Arthur Morgan’s death was just pure lame garbage if you asked me. 

 

John will go down in history as a legend and stories will be told about him forever. 

 

Arthur will go down as an all around good guy, but that’s about it unfortunately...

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SonOfLiberty
21 minutes ago, O.Z said:

John’s death > Arthur’s death. 

 

John Martson is such a legend that it took half a village to kill him in the end. 

 

Arthur Morgan’s death was just pure lame garbage if you asked me. 

 

John will go down in history as a legend and stories will be told about him forever. 

 

Arthur will go down as an all around good guy, but that’s about it unfortunately...

I wouldn't go as far as saying it was garbage. (The Trevor and Michael deaths in GTA V are garbage),  but I think it would've been way more effective as a plot device a decade ago. 

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O.Z
18 minutes ago, American Venom said:

I wouldn't go as far as saying it was garbage. (The Trevor and Michael deaths in GTA V are garbage),  but I think it would've been way more effective as a plot device a decade ago. 

Well I had the lowest honor when Arthur died, he got stabbed by Micah twice... that ending was utter sh*t. I was like, really? I couldn’t even inflict any damage to him whatsoever... major letdown 

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TheSantader25

John might be remembered as a legend but who gives a f*ck? A dead guy wouldn't care. All that matters to a dead dude is redemption and I think Arthur definitely did it far better. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Antipode

Arthur's death was one of the most emotional moments for me in my entire three decades of gaming. I don't know how some here couldn't feel anything during the final moment, it was sadly beautiful.

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UncleTacitus
On 1/21/2019 at 8:30 PM, Boozey St James said:

I'll be honest, 

 

I kept thinking that Arthur would get better. To be fair, I was in denial. 

I know what you mean. At one point, when Alden or someone told me (Arthur) that I had a nasty sounding cough, I actually though for a moment that "oh yeah, that's what it is, just a flu. The doctor in Saint Denis was wrong. It's a flu and Rockstar is just messing with our heads". Well... nope. If I had shrink, (s)he would've told me that "that there's a classic case of denial, boah".

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SonOfLiberty
44 minutes ago, Antipode said:

Arthur's death was one of the most emotional moments for me in my entire three decades of gaming. I don't know how some here couldn't feel anything during the final moment, it was sadly beautiful.

To be honest I had the ending spoiled for me (thanks to the various spoiler trolls) so maybe that's the reason I didn't feel much. I got the "peaceful" ending because of high honour.

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Antipode
1 hour ago, American Venom said:

To be honest I had the ending spoiled for me (thanks to the various spoiler trolls) so maybe that's the reason I didn't feel much. I got the "peaceful" ending because of high honour.

I too had the ending spoiled and received the high honour ending, but it still hit me hard. The scenery, the sun rise, the events prior, and most of all, the music, made it a very heart felt moment, and I imagined myself in Arthur's shoes for a moment. A masterfully crafted moment of story telling.


https://youtu.be/lm-WEZRpWuA
 

Edited by Antipode

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Cutter De Blanc

My Arthur got shot in the f*cking face, no matter how hard I fought Micah he was faster and stronger, then at the end crawling for the gun and I get to it and Dutch f*cking steps on it, and Im like "f*cked up"

 

Left me feeling a little hollow and a lot pissed off going into "The Wheel." I drowned John in the river in Strawberry as I recall.

Edited by Cutter De Blanc

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Dark Rosewood Varnish
On 1/22/2019 at 9:30 AM, O.Z said:

Rockstar should have surprised us and kept Arthur alive, instead they just followed the same formula as before in RDR. John dies and you play as Jack. Here Arthur dies and you play as John. What you got planned for us next in RDR3 Rockstar? Let me guess: you play as Dutch’s mother and when she dies you play as Arthur. 

 

I had pretty much convinced myself Arthur was still alive. I was convinced that we'd switch back to him at some point during the epilogue and he'd be living on a ranch somewhere in New Austin. Then Charles crumbled all my hopes and dreams when he mentioned that he buried him, my heart literally sunk. This was probably the only time playing a video game where I've had a feeling of genuine disappointment.  

 

 

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