Problem with griefing

[Smokewood]

55 minutes ago, JuliuszMCMXCVII said:

It wasn't that much of a grind and it is even better that way. Once I've reached rank 100 the game became really boring. Now I can focus on house chores without having rdo in the back of my head.

It was boring at level 1....

There's nothing to do!

 

I can't believe they thought they were going to get a repeat of GTAO, lol - no chance.

This game is starving for a PvE mode where you  run co-op missions with friends to blow off time and live in the world.

Constant PvP battles... lol, no thanks. When I'm in the mood for that I'll just log into GTAO, or COD, or Battlefield.

 

Without PvE lobbies, the game is dead.

[ALifeOfMisery]

6 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

It was boring at level 1....

Ain't that the truth.

 

The 45 minutes I spent killing police in Saint Denis to lower my honour enough to finish the story missions was boring as f*ck.

 

I'm not going to sit on a roof or down a mine shaft mindlessly executing NPC police for hours on end just to rank up, which, considering that I find the prospect of grinding Series for XP comparable to the prospect of getting kicked in the d*ck, would be my most viable method of ranking up.

 

I'd rather not have the horse I'd like until Easter, or whenever, if I play for that long.

[Lonely-Martin]

1 hour ago, DentureDynamite said:

The issue here is lost time and effort involved in what I was doing just because I was killed by another player. Just one.

 

Rockstar knows only too well that even something as simple as fishing--when killed--either absorbing X minutes dueling it out, or time spent changing sessions, and trying to find the same spot free of other players.

 

Then it takes traveling to that spot (possibly even fast traveling to save time, but costing money) because direct-spot-respawning when changing sessions includes higher numbers of players in that area.

 

It then takes time getting setup and picking up the momentum, before I can even START to resume making money and having fun; all of which uses limited real life time.

 

Hence R*'s strategy--drain a player's time and their resolve via near-continuous hassles, and they might buy mafia bars in an attempt to somehow remedy this.

Yep. GTA was a real eye opener in this regard. Pretty much since crates/public only, that's been the way. Not doing it again, and with such little content and relying heavily on the 2 aspects I did much of in story mode (fishing/hunting), it's just too deliberate and very off putting. It's such a simple game, pew pew pew, zzz.

 

Shame, as like GTA, the potential is there. But it's a fair wait just for a possible fix or any new content. Was really hoping it'd compliment GTA But it's done worse, made GTA that much more appealing in almost every way.

 

Considering this was 8 years in the making and GTA is over 5 years old, I find this huge backwards step to be truly amazing really. Couldn't of predicted this new gen game being this simple, even in a beta phase.

 

I laugh now I'm out and looking back, but it is a real shame. The game's out to waste my holidays, not enjoy them more. Comedy gold really now.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Lonely-Martin

[hotrats773]

19 hours ago, Arkane said:

So I wanted to drop by and say I had one of those cooking while in my camp encounters just 10 minutes ago. Watching people get frustrated as their bullets go right through your character  or their lasso fails to grab you as you craft/ cook stuff is great. You'd think they give up once they realized, but nope. Fun times.

LOL. I have those a lot. Eventually these single-chromosome, mouth-breathing, f*cktards start killing each other out of frustration.

[Dr.Rosenthal]

I find it a bit baffling that R* are saying now that they’re considering anti-griefing measures. One of the largest game developers roll out one of this year’s biggest games (and anticipated by many for many years), and they haven’t thought through a solid plan for anti-griefing? It’s just a bit weird is all.

 

I’m not sure where I stand. I like the hostility of RDO just as I like it in GTAO; it makes it more exciting to me. I like a fair bit of PvP, running Stranger missions and fighting off posses etc. I’ve noticed I get a little bored by just logging on and going hunting with my friends. But at the same time, after some thrilling PvP action I like to be left alone to fish, hunt or just goof around with my friends, as a break. Depends on the mood..

 

I kind of like it the way it is, I like it that there’s always a bit of chance and competitiveness bubbling under the surface. But I usually leave people alone and really only spank those who deserve it. I love me that spanking though!

 

Which is where my focus point comes in, and it ties in with my opening paragraph; in a game like this, why hasn’t R* spent more time to develop a solid risk and reward+outlaw vs bounty hunter-system? I’m no game developer so this might all be stupid, but I think they should use people’s aggressiveness (=use the griefers) to create solid gameplay. Wouldn’t that be the first question that comes to mind when making an Online world like this? And everyone has problems with people behaving bad towards others, just like in real life. Why not create a built-in system of laws and let players take on the roles of governing those laws, essentially taking the issues and turning them into exciting gameplay?

 

I’d gladly chase after bounties (players that have ”misbehaved”) if I could when I’m up for some PvP - that way I’d enjoy my time spent, the lone wolves would catch a break (well, ideally at least), and the griefers would also get some action - and get their asses spanked. Everyone would be happy! And most of all, it would be a brilliantly smart solution.

 

Not just ”you tarzan, me outlaw. now fight. next update with hats and new horse colors coming soon for 100 gold bars”. That’s not pretty. Balanced gameplay is pretty.

 

C’mon R*, you’re usually so good except for when you’re really, really bad... 

I realize none of this is unique, I’ve read lots of good propositions from many of you on how to improve the game (and in much better detail than what I’ve described). I just felt I needed to say this.

 

One thing I know is I don’t want passive mode á la GTAO, which will only be abused and will let the tryhards play even dirtier with it.

[Talisman_83]

2 hours ago, Dr.Rosenthal said:

One thing I know is I don’t want passive mode á la GTAO, which will only be abused and will let the tryhards play even dirtier with it.

I know it will, however we need some way of, for instance, being able to sell at a butchers without fear of someone killing you as soon as you exit.

Which you won't see coming because you can't access the map whilst selling.

So perhaps leaving places like that should grant you passive-like behaviour for 10-20 seconds? I suppose they could just follow you though.

Obvious alternative is PVE and invite only lobbies. I have a feeling they won't do this, especially the former.

 

Perhaps one method could be the honour system? Say your honour is around the 75% mark, you now have the ability to go passive.

As soon as you start killing players, it decreases and you cannot enter passive again until it reaches that percentage.

I dunno, I suppose that could be exploited too.

I'll admit there's not a perfect solution, but something needs to be implemented.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Talisman_83

[Dr.Rosenthal]

Played GTAO for a couple hours earlier tonight, and inevitably came across two run-of-the-mill tryhards, with full black clothing, gasmasks and white hair, (ab)using the Oppressor Mk2, and when they couldn't do that anymore they both went passive and started messaging "Up 2-1 against ur friend haha".

 

We got sick of this so we decided to get on RDO instead which we had planned to do beforehand, and even though we passed by other players pretty much constantly, I didn't kill another player once and wasn't killed once either - and neither was any of my friends. And most importantly we didn't come across any childish, salty players at all.

 

Such a difference! 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Dr.Rosenthal

[Qbert]

I have bad luck every time I log on it's nothing but stupidity both on the mic and the players just shooting mindlessly. Logged on today first word I heard was "Maggot  ass punk"....only he didn't say maggot. 

[Van_Hellsing]

I had a few epic moments by spawn raping griefers three times in a row. If you come after me, you are fair game for revenge. Griefers are looking for victims, not a fight. If you fight back, they will leave. 

 

In gta, ruining someone's hard work is part of the entertainment. Rockstar is actively promoting Pvp. RDR2 online is not different. 

[Ghoffman9]

Its worse with no means of turning on passive. I cannot even step away briefly to take a sh*t after completing a mission cause the game always puts you within spitting distance of players after spawning into a session after a mission is completed.

They could fix the passive issue by simply making it unavailable if you engaged in PvP combat recently. That way those who seek to use it for legitimate reasons can turn it on whilst it cannot be abused by passive poppers like those in Gta online. Its clear they are trying to forcefully make players kill one another.

 

Just a few minutes ago after doing a mission grind I wanted to sh*t right after, but the game spawned me right next to a freaking 4 player posse, who of course started attacking me on sight. Once I put them down with my Schofield Revolver I ran a good distance to a fast travel point. You cannot be attacked while interacting with it. Its another good reason why solo sessions would again be a good thing, I can then put the controller down without worrying about some pathetic troglodyte farming kills on me while I am gone.

 

Many players are very pathetic and will farm kills on AFK players whenever the opportunity arises. Yesterday after completing a mission, I was in the abilities menu for all of ten seconds to see how much exp I still needed to rank up an ability when I suddenly hear my guy cry out in pain and my controller vibrated. I immediately pull down the menu to see a jackass on the cliff above taking shots at me with a bow. The little sh*t thought I was not at the controller and did not expect me to suddenly spring to life and in his shock he could not land that second shot before I put a bullet between his eyes with my bolt action.

[U Carmine]

On 12/18/2018 at 4:19 AM, Talisman_83 said:

Perhaps one method could be the honour system? Say your honour is around the 75% mark, you now have the ability to go passive.

As soon as you start killing players, it decreases and you cannot enter passive again until it reaches that percentage.

I dunno, I suppose that could be exploited too.

I'll admit there's not a perfect solution, but something needs to be implemented.

Yeah, it's not perfect. Let's say I'm at max positive honour. I kill just one player near butcher and it drops me to 95% positive honour. Then I could have griefed them and still go passive after. Just an example. It won't have much effect and easily exploited. I could just pet/pat my horse, feed it, brush it back to 100% positive honour.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Ektope

[Talisman_83]

2 hours ago, Ektope said:

Yeah, it's not perfect. Let's say I'm at max positive honour. I kill just one player near butcher and it drops me to 95% positive honour. Then I could have griefed them and still go passive after. Just an example. It won't have much effect and easily exploited. I could just pet/pat my horse, feed it, brush it back to 100% positive honour.

 

Then in that case, we need full passive mode a la GTA or invite only lobbies.

Unless someone can offer a better alternative.

[Fugitive21]

No problem here

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Fugitive21

[yeezy203]

Until they get a passive mode as soon as I even think someone is trying to greif me I fight back and usually get a few kills in. Then I switch lobbies. I'm not here for a PVP deathmatch I refuse to give them the satisfaction. I do like making sure I leave with having more kills on them than they do on me though that makes it even better.

[Dr.Rosenthal]

It’d have to be a passive mode that’s wildly different from how it’s working in GTAO. Like I said in my previous post, I’m utterly sick with tryhards abusing it - let’s call it ”running and hiding behind mommy”-passive mode.

 

I can almost guarantee that the griefing is only going to get worse when the griefers can go passive and follow you around and decide for themselves when to come out of passive. It will be abused. So it’d have to be 100% non-abusable (?) in order for it to do more good than bad in terms of balance. If not, I’d say we’re better off the way we are now. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Dr.Rosenthal

[ALifeOfMisery]

8 minutes ago, Dr.Rosenthal said:

 It’d have to be a passive mode that’s wildly different from how it’s working in GTAO. Like I said in my previous post, I’m utterly sick with tryhards abusing it - let’s call it ”running and hiding behind mommy”-passive mode.

 

I can almost guarantee that the griefing is only going to get worse when the griefers can go passive and follow you around and decide for themselves when to come

out of passive. It will be abused. So it’d have to be 100% non-abusable (?) in order for it to do more good than bad in terms of balance. If not, I’d say we’re better off the way we are now. 

This is why I'm against passive mode being implemented. I just can't see a scenario in which, however R* go about adding it, it won't become abusable in the same, or in a similar way, to how it is abused in GTAO.

 

Lobby options, similar to the original RDR, are the answer.

 

Knowing R*, any lobby without PvP will be restricted in terms of gameplay, so probably no stranger missions, but I'll take being able to hunt and fish without constantly checking the map as a decent starting point.

[Ghoffman9]

14 minutes ago, Dr.Rosenthal said:

 It’d have to be a passive mode that’s wildly different from how it’s working in GTAO. Like I said in my previous post, I’m utterly sick with tryhards abusing it - let’s call it ”running and hiding behind mommy”-passive mode.

 

I can almost guarantee that the griefing is only going to get worse when the griefers can go passive and follow you around and decide for themselves when to come

out of passive. It will be abused. So it’d have to be 100% non-abusable (?) in order for it to do more good than bad in terms of balance. If not, I’d say we’re better off the way we are now. 

Well the easiest solution is that when you elect to turn it off, you still cannot attack players for another minute or so. Giving players facing a passive popper all the time in the world to take notice and prepare to defend himself. The game can even have a little notification that it sends to any players that are near a player turning off passive that they have done so. When a player elects to switch it off  their dot then begins to blink back and forth between solid and transparent to indicate to nearby players that they are gonna be leaving passive mode within the next 60 seconds.

[Talisman_83]

22 minutes ago, Ghoffman9 said:

Well the easiest solution is that when you elect to turn it off, you still cannot attack players for another minute or so. Giving players facing a passive popper all the time in the world to take notice and prepare to defend himself. The game can even have a little notification that it sends to any players that are near a player turning off passive that they have done so. When a player elects to switch it off  their dot then begins to blink back and forth between solid and transparent to indicate to nearby players that they are gonna be leaving passive mode within the next 60 seconds.

This is probably the best proposal and least-abusive method.

[Ghoffman9]

11 minutes ago, Talisman_83 said:

This is probably the best proposal and least-abusive method.

It would work great in tandem with the parlay system. Parlay can help those who are already in PvP combat and wish to go about their business. Enabling them to break combat from them, but in turn not being able to engage them again for ten minutes.

With both combined no one can be dragged into PvP combat when they don't want to, and can leave combat when they wish to do so, and without any means to reliably abuse these systems, I'd say its be the best approach out there.

[ShayD]

To me the best solution to this (not to be dismissing to anyone elses ideas) is a system like Fallout 76. Shooting players does very little damage unless they shoot back, which is basically a term of agreement to engage in free roam PVP. Its easy to understand and I dont see a way it could be abused. It would keep griefers away while still giving honest pvp lovers an opportunity to get into some free roam gunfights for fun or for a challenge, not to ruin someones day.

[Qbert]

If people were not such bags of Richards all the time and had some respect for people we wouldn't have a problem 

[DroidX]

11 hours ago, ShayD said:

To me the best solution to this (not to be dismissing to anyone elses ideas) is a system like Fallout 76. Shooting players does very little damage unless they shoot back, which is basically a term of agreement to engage in free roam PVP. Its easy to understand and I dont see a way it could be abused. It would keep griefers away while still giving honest pvp lovers an opportunity to get into some free roam gunfights for fun or for a challenge, not to ruin someones day.

It is a well based pvp system. but the other player wont take much damage, meaning it can get its best weapon and get close to you for a quick kill

[XxJazzy42xX]

On 12/9/2018 at 9:32 PM, Shadowfennekin said:

They should implement the system Fallout 76 has on griefers.

You kill somebody unprovoked, you get a bounty. And it'll grow the more you kill the guy.

Causing the griefer to become the target as everyone will rush towards him, wanting the cash

not a lot of people like that game even though I'm enjoying it and for the most part the environment is friendly because of this. Thing is that environment isn't a reality unless measures are implemented like this(which might not work for the fan base of RDR or GTA, but its something a lot of the Fallout Fans wanted to avoid lobbies like GTAO), because imagine if that system wasn't in that game on top of the negative attention that game has already. I've seen 2 people on that game get curb stomped by half the lobby because they murdered somebody....and man was it glorious, but all in all that system they implement is why the environment is so relaxed and friendly in Fallout 76. 

[Ghoffman9]

13 hours ago, ShayD said:

To me the best solution to this (not to be dismissing to anyone elses ideas) is a system like Fallout 76. Shooting players does very little damage unless they shoot back, which is basically a term of agreement to engage in free roam PVP. Its easy to understand and I dont see a way it could be abused. It would keep griefers away while still giving honest pvp lovers an opportunity to get into some free roam gunfights for fun or for a challenge, not to ruin someones day.

That can be abused just as much, PvP would boil down to everyone using shotguns at that point. Getting close enough and just blasting the target away with a single shotgun round. You shoot at a player, they can just casually take out their shotgun and one shot you, with you being able to do nothing about it until he shoots back, but that first shot will kill you outright, so the one who shoots first gets put in a lose lose situation.