Gambling needs to be added or online will be a failure

[Therealrichgee]

Surely if this was a problem in certain countries then those places wouldn't have got poker in SP either. Now I'm guessing that didn't happen? And if it didn't happen, then what's the difference with it being online?

[TiberiusMcQueen]

3 hours ago, We Are Ninja said:

Eh. Clearly there are. This is R*' third or fourth massive foray into online sandboxing and they STILL haven't implemented gambling. We can kill NPCs and animals via all sorts of creative methods, and we've been able to drink, do drugs, rob banks, and bang hookers. But it appears that gambling poses some unique obstacles...

Of the four games with large online presence only two have even had gambling in them, RDR and RDR2, and RDR's online was nowhere near as major a component of the game as it is going to be for RDR2, so it is not a comparable situation at all. As for GTA V, it didn't even have gambling, and there was only one form of currency in GTAO, those two aspects are not shared by RDR2/RDO where the singleplayer game already has gambling fully implemented into it and the online side has two different currencies, which would allow them to prevent people from putting real money into gambling games in online. There is no issue if they don't connect it to microtransactions, I wouldn't be surprised if they're just making sure there's no way for players to glitch the games for easy money before they implement them.

Edited December 9, 2018 by TiberiusMcQueen

[We Are Ninja]

6 hours ago, TiberiusMcQueen said:

Of the four games with large online presence only two have even had gambling in them, RDR and RDR2, and RDR's online was nowhere near as major a component of the game as it is going to be for RDR2, so it is not a comparable situation at all. As for GTA V, it didn't even have gambling, and there was only one form of currency in GTAO, those two aspects are not shared by RDR2/RDO where the singleplayer game already has gambling fully implemented into it and the online side has two different currencies, which would allow them to prevent people from putting real money into gambling games in online. There is no issue if they don't connect it to microtransactions, I wouldn't be surprised if they're just making sure there's no way for players to glitch the games for easy money before they implement them.

That's my point. If gambling presents no problem, why hasn't it been implemented? It's been in GTA games since San Andreas, and RDR2 had gambling throughout story mode, but it's still not an option. I suppose that time will tell which one of us is right.

[Iash91]

8 hours ago, Therealrichgee said:

Surely if this was a problem in certain countries then those places wouldn't have got poker in SP either. Now I'm guessing that didn't happen? And if it didn't happen, then what's the difference with it being online?

 

I think the issue with that is you can purchase in game currency, then that in-game currency can be used to 'gamble'. Which I can actually see a problem with. However I guess the solution to that is make gold bars (the MTX currency) unable to be used in gambling mini-games, only the cash you get in game.

 

Then of course you waste all your in game cash in gambling mini-games and then go spend gold bars on those fancy pair of boots you like, so it's all really pointless anyway. But it wouldn't be considered direct gambling.

[Gray-Hand]

You were allowed to bet on racing in GTAonline using GTA$ that was bought with real money from shark cards, so I’m not sure that the ban on ingame gambling is founded in reality.

 

More likely: 

1.  Rockstar don’t want to provide a method for players to be able to transfer money to each other;

2.  Rockstar don’t want to let players team up to fleece other players - imagine 4 friends connected up via party chat telling each other what cards they had to fleece a computer poker player. Or worse - a real life player.

3.  Rockstar don’t want to have to jump through the hoops necessary to obtain the necessary licenses to provide a gambling product.

 

That last one is the big one.  Playing with RDonline dollars is just the same as playing with chips in a real life casino if that online currency can be bought with real money and therefor has a real life value.  Casinos including online casinos, have to comply with incredibly strict rules to make sure that their games are fair.  Dice and cards have to meet legal standards, computer programs that operate slot machines have to comply with all sorts of regulations.  Rockstar probably don’t want to do that.  Particularly since a lot of non adults play their games.

 

GTAonline car races were different because they were based on skill.  Gambling laws in most countries are based on games of chance - how the dice roll and how the cards fall are determinative of the result rather than the reflexes and hand eye coordination of the player.

 

I can’t see a scenario where Rockstar will put the necessary resources into making sure that the blackjack and poker parts of the game will comply with various gambling law requirements around the globe.  It’s a massive investment of time and resources.  

[HanSoloYolo]

I agree.   Add gambling or there is little value in Online gameplay.  Bump!

[MagicNarcosis]

Make it to where you can only gamble with in game currency and never allow gold bars to be converted to in game cash ever - black jack and poker all day at the expense of in game play. 

Edited December 10, 2018 by MagicNarcosis

[Gray-Hand]

That would mean that they would have to implement a system whereby anything purchased with gold could never be sold for RDO$, thereby converting real money into RDO$.

You would think that wouldn’t be too hard.

[MagicNarcosis]

3 minutes ago, Gray-Hand said:

That would mean that they would have to implement a system whereby anything purchased with gold could never be sold for RDO$, thereby converting real money into RDO$.

You would think that wouldn’t be too hard.

 

You pay in gold you get a return in gold.

pay in cash, return in cash.

 

making sure no exploits would be the task at hand.

[BretMaverick777]

1 hour ago, Gray-Hand said:

 

GTAonline car races were different because they were based on skill.  Gambling laws in most countries are based on games of chance - how the dice roll and how the cards fall are determinative of the result rather than the reflexes and hand eye coordination of the player.

 

I work in a tribal casino on the Cherokee rez in North Carolina.  The only way we were allowed to (finally) have gambling legally was to offer games of skill instead of chance.  Those games of "skill" include blackjack, poker, roulette, craps, bingo, and even slot machines.   The reason these games are considered "skill" instead of "chance" is because you can apply betting strategies to alter your odds.  i.e., the "skill" doesn't involve dexterity, it involves intelligence.   (Or lack thereof, but don't get me started.) 

[RedDeadNedKelly]

If they bring gambling into online I better be able to rob the gamblers.

Raiding a high stakes poker game would be the ducks guts. Run in, hold the joint up, steal the winnings from the table and leg it.

 

As God once said: ”If you like to gamble I tell you I’m your man, you win some, lose some, it’s all the same to me”

[BretMaverick777]

27 minutes ago, RedDeadNedKelly said:

If they bring gambling into online I better be able to rob the gamblers.

Raiding a high stakes poker game would be the ducks guts. Run in, hold the joint up, steal the winnings from the table and leg it.

 

There's a mission for that in single player....

 

28 minutes ago, RedDeadNedKelly said:

As God once said: ”If you like to gamble I tell you I’m your man, you win some, lose some, it’s all the same to me”

[Gallows]

1 hour ago, Gray-Hand said:

You were allowed to bet on racing in GTAonline using GTA$ that was bought with real money from shark cards, so I’m not sure that the ban on ingame gambling is founded in reality.

 

More likely: 

1.  Rockstar don’t want to provide a method for players to be able to transfer money to each other;

2.  Rockstar don’t want to let players team up to fleece other players - imagine 4 friends connected up via party chat telling each other what cards they had to fleece a computer poker player. Or worse - a real life player.

3.  Rockstar don’t want to have to jump through the hoops necessary to obtain the necessary licenses to provide a gambling product.

 

That last one is the big one.  Playing with RDonline dollars is just the same as playing with chips in a real life casino if that online currency can be bought with real money and therefor has a real life value.  Casinos including online casinos, have to comply with incredibly strict rules to make sure that their games are fair.  Dice and cards have to meet legal standards, computer programs that operate slot machines have to comply with all sorts of regulations.  Rockstar probably don’t want to do that.  Particularly since a lot of non adults play their games.

 

GTAonline car races were different because they were based on skill.  Gambling laws in most countries are based on games of chance - how the dice roll and how the cards fall are determinative of the result rather than the reflexes and hand eye coordination of the player.

 

I can’t see a scenario where Rockstar will put the necessary resources into making sure that the blackjack and poker parts of the game will comply with various gambling law requirements around the globe.  It’s a massive investment of time and resources.  

I agree - poker will not work because honour and honesty aren’t virtues many players value and uphold, while they are anonymous.

[Juxax]

every single aspect of rdo is painstakingly f*cking boring, and people are moaning about gambling?

[The Notorious MOB]

No doubt that Rockstar have sought professional legal advice on this. They could implement it if they wanted since it was in Redemption multiplayer then years ago. It's a very contentious issue now so somebody is bound to try and bring a case against them (especially given their earnings) or worse still certain countries may restrict their sales. It's simply not worth it to add one new minigame to Online. It also wouldn't make sense from a business standpoint because players could potentially just donate hundreds of dollars by losing to their friends in a game of poker or five finger filler. We seen how much problems were caused by the donation system in GTA V so it's just another headache for them.

[Tha-Jamz]

On 12/8/2018 at 4:51 PM, BretMaverick777 said:

well actually...

 

I mean, the hookers are there, and they're offering.  I think the hooker situation is an engineering problem, not a morality issue.  Looks like the game mechanic simply couldn't get it up for release. 

 

Still betting they're working on it for RDO. 

Looks like the game mechanic simply couldn't get it up for release..... LOL u see what u did there ?

[Lonely-Martin]

1 hour ago, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

No doubt that Rockstar have sought professional legal advice on this. They could implement it if they wanted since it was in Redemption multiplayer then years ago. It's a very contentious issue now so somebody is bound to try and bring a case against them (especially given their earnings) or worse still certain countries may restrict their sales. It's simply not worth it to add one new minigame to Online. It also wouldn't make sense from a business standpoint because players could potentially just donate hundreds of dollars by losing to their friends in a game of poker or five finger filler. We seen how much problems were caused by the donation system in GTA V so it's just another headache for them.

Yeah, lots too consider really. As you (and Gray-Hand above) mention, players gaming it to profit or screw others is another consideration too.

 

If they make it high stakes, it'll get gamed. But if they do like story mode and do it for a few cents, it'll see many not too bothered. Some will still enjoy the gameplay of it instead of profiting from it too of course. But all that and potential legal considerations in today's world, genuinely lots to think about from R*'s POV. Is it worth the effort or potential controversy for them, especially as the economy has already garnered some heat too.

 

That said, be nice if it does come as I do like a game.

[Gallows]

9 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Yeah, lots too consider really. As you (and Gray-Hand above) mention, players gaming it to profit or screw others is another consideration too.

 

If they make it high stakes, it'll get gamed. But if they do like story mode and do it for a few cents, it'll see many not too bothered. Some will still enjoy the gameplay of it instead of profiting from it too of course. But all that and potential legal considerations in today's world, genuinely lots to think about from R*'s POV. Is it worth the effort or potential controversy for them, especially as the economy has already garnered some heat too.

 

That said, be nice if it does come as I do like a game.

If they add gaming it may be without using money - just for fun in the camp.

[Lonely-Martin]

12 minutes ago, Gallows said:

If they add gaming it may be without using money - just for fun in the camp.

To be fair, I'm good with that. Of course, to win and win big most wouldn't object too, lol. But just as a gaming element to hang with buddies or rivals alike just for side fun, sounds just as rewarding really.

[R*Phenomenon]

6 hours ago, Gray-Hand said:

You were allowed to bet on racing in GTAonline using GTA$ that was bought with real money from shark cards, so I’m not sure that the ban on ingame gambling is founded in reality.

 

More likely: 

1.  Rockstar don’t want to provide a method for players to be able to transfer money to each other;

2.  Rockstar don’t want to let players team up to fleece other players - imagine 4 friends connected up via party chat telling each other what cards they had to fleece a computer poker player. Or worse - a real life player.

3.  Rockstar don’t want to have to jump through the hoops necessary to obtain the necessary licenses to provide a gambling product.

 

 

These indeed are the troubles they are facing and therefore i dont think it will ever be available online.. especially for the partychat function which it makes it too easy to swindle someone..  

 

Next to that Rockstar will never ever implement No limit poker/gambling, simply because a good poker player could buy anything he wants (not buying sharkcards or whatever) and another player never bothering playing RDO again because all he's lost.

 

So we might see some gambling purely fixed limits like in singleplayer max $5.- buy in. but then they also wont let you win more than 25 a day or so , to keep u from exploiting it.. i guess this will be the only way its ever gonna be in..  And chat will have to mute or block no matter what.. in game and in party's.

 

Actually the more i think of it the less possible it seems to me (money) gambing gets in... if i was Rockstar i would let players use Wild carrot slices to be save..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Poggy]

I expect gambling, for small fixed limits, will become available.  Most want it, many expected it.  I think they'll find a way round many of the issues to deliver it in some form.  Good.

[Fugitive21]

On 12/9/2018 at 8:21 AM, Callahan44 said:

 

2. No. But kids arent even allowed to play this game,just like they arent allowed to enter casinos.

 

 LOL have you been to Vegas Lately? I see kids with parents playing on slot machines.

 

With Xbox game share kids are sharing the game to friends who are not allowed to play these types of games. Some parents use the Xbox as a babysitter and don't even know what the kids are playing.

[Callahan44]

3 minutes ago, Fugitive21 said:

 LOL have you been to Vegas Lately? I see kids with parents playing on slot machines.

 

With Xbox game share kids are sharing the game to friends who are not allowed to play these types of games. Some parents use the Xbox as a babysitter and don't even know what the kids are playing.

Bad parenting,but i dont wanna pay the price for it. 

[Lonely-Martin]

2 minutes ago, Callahan44 said:

Bad parenting,but i dont wanna pay the price for it. 

Nope. I let my son play most any game really. Not all aspects, like the strip clubs in GTA, but racing and shooting cops, absolutely. 

 

Don't need the governing bodies telling me what to do. I choose my kids limits, simple as that. Same with movies. No 50 shades, but Terminator/Robocop etc. Certainly.

 

Too many over 18's in game that my son would embarrass with his respectful behaviour too, lol.

[Poggy]

As far as I know, there's no law in my country against allowing under 18s to play 18 rated games (unless deemed abusive or grooming).  Other countries might vary.

 

Regardless of parental choice, I can't see how gambling is in any way more problematic in a game than alcohol, cocaine gum, cigarettes, deluxe baths, murder, torture, klan rallies and the such like.

[Fugitive21]

1 hour ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Nope. I let my son play most any game really. Not all aspects, like the strip clubs in GTA, but racing and shooting cops, absolutely. 

 

Don't need the governing bodies telling me what to do. I choose my kids limits, simple as that. Same with movies. No 50 shades, but Terminator/Robocop etc. Certainly.

 

Too many over 18's in game that my son would embarrass with his respectful behaviour too, lol.

My son is allowed to play anything Xbox except GTA V the wife states (I cant over rule my wife on the GTA V game). Game violence is game violence. Be it coming from Mario f*cking up turtles to marvel VS capcom fighting games. We just regulate who he can and cant talk to in party chat. Kind of hard to not let the kid play video games when the father plays them and use to make them.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Fugitive21

[Lonely-Martin]

1 minute ago, Fugitive21 said:

My son is allowed to play anything Xbox except GTA V the wife states (I cant over rule my wife on the GTA V game). Game violence is game violence. Be it coming from Mario f*cking up turtles to marvel VS capcom fighting games. We just regulate who he can and cant talk to in party chat. Kind of hard to not let the kid play video games when the father plays them and use to make them.

Yeah definitely. As a gamer myself, it's easier to know and understand the content involved and where to take control. I don't let my lad play upstairs in his room alone or in public sessions with mic or anything that exposes him too much. That said, many my age (37) grew up on consoles being safe and left to it upstairs as risks were minimal this way so it's easy to see a non-gamer my age think it's no different to a megadrive, lol.

 

Definitely parents need to do more this way to understand how open and at times, troublesome it can be. Some of the things I heard grown men telling children in GTA was truly shocking, and a couple of incidents will probably stick forever. No excuses for that, but blimey!

[Fugitive21]

58 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Yeah definitely. As a gamer myself, it's easier to know and understand the content involved and where to take control. I don't let my lad play upstairs in his room alone or in public sessions with mic or anything that exposes him too much. That said, many my age (37) grew up on consoles being safe and left to it upstairs as risks were minimal this way so it's easy to see a non-gamer my age think it's no different to a megadrive, lol.

 

Definitely parents need to do more this way to understand how open and at times, troublesome it can be. Some of the things I heard grown men telling children in GTA was truly shocking, and a couple of incidents will probably stick forever. No excuses for that, but blimey!

Yup this weekend was a young kid in our showdown lobby talking. Kid couldn't be more that 11-12 years old. Now the console warriors jumped on this kid by saying "shut the f*ck turn off your MIC" in a loud tone manner at first till a complete yelling took over. Kid left the game after the yelling. This followed by a few us telling them they are assholes and this followed with a rude reply of shut the f*ck up from them. Many of us left the lobby after that.

 

To this day I don't see why people need to be assholes like this in chat rooms.

[ytowntuneup]

On 12/7/2018 at 12:10 PM, Lonely-Martin said:

Only gold is MTX. And with the cash as a secondary currency, they're covered. Can only get cash by playing, and with a gambling warning on an 18 rated game, I feel they covered the basics.

 

You can only lose time.

And you could bet on races or deathmatches in GTAO anyway...

[Ehrmantraut]

Makes me cringe everytime I see this thing about "gambling issue", I really can't see the issue if they implement gambling in the same way it works on story mode, with no gold bars involved. The 2 separated currencies it's weird and kinda makes me think it was developed for this purpose, to avoid any backlash. As some said, there's betting with real life money in GTAO; RDO wouldn't even involve real life money.