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KingBen

Gambling needs to be added or online will be a failure

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TiberiusMcQueen
12 minutes ago, GenericGTAO said:

Terrible that its not included, but the current climate does not really allow for gambling in this game.  Its bad enough with all the political correctness issues.  Gambling in games is getting serious considerations from the authorities all over.

Only when it's tied to microtransactions, there would be no trouble here because the microtransaction currency is separate from the standard currency, so no real money would be spent on the gambling games, since they could just not let us use gold in them and only let us use the standard currency, which would easily solve the problem. The issue some games are having is largely due to shady practices like loot boxes, where real money is involved.

Edited by TiberiusMcQueen

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TyrionV

Damn man, the game’s gonna fail cause a few lads didnt get what they want.

 

Gutted. I was hoping to play this for years. 

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Bakkerbaard

The problem is, as far as Dutch law is concerned, that the law doesn't really know what to do with this.

I barely know anything about Dutch law, aside from that they seem to frown upon stabbing people that cut in line, let alone laws in your respective countries, but I'm willing to hazard a guess that they're not quite sure on how to handle the gambling aspects in a game either and so I presume Rockstar prefers to err on the safe side (is that the expression?).

 

I mean, look at that dumpster fire of Star Wars Battlefield's lootboxes. 

Technically speaking you're getting exactly what you paid meatworld money for: a box with loot. I don't play the game, so I don't know if it is stated anywhere that the loot you get might be a pair of bantha socks instead of the Vader helmet your were hoping for, but that whole deal of not knowing what you're gonna get, or possibly the game not living up to a certain kind of agreement, is, or was, considered to be a form of gambling. 

Personally I blame EA for sparking this nonsense and denying us some quality Wild West gambling, which I would also like to see added, but ultimately this is beside the point.

The point is, I believe, that while gambling in game may not actually be gambling and there may not be an actual law against it, it's a point of debate as laws are trying to keep up with sane people and game developers.

 

One good suggestion I passed by was the use of a third gambling specific currency. That could work in theory, but my counterpoint would be that there's not alot of fun about gambling when there's nothing at stake, so how much use would gambling still have then?

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volta2001

Purchasing ranches and cabins in the woods needs to be added or I will have zero interest 

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Nugsy

I forget the details but a friend said that one of the saloons has a poker table that's not in story mode, so it does look like poker has at least been planned for online.

 

Poker nights with crew mates is what I've looked forward to since RDR2 was announced. 

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BretMaverick777
10 hours ago, theEwing1979 said:

I can't read these posts about gambling. I just get super pissed off when someone (inevitably) states that gambling can't be added due to gambling laws. It's absolute nonsense. If you can't cash out game currency for real money.... It's not gambling. If you disagree with me then you don't understand gambling. And you're wrong.

 

I'll comment. But I refuse to read any of the posts bar the OP. 

 

I'm out. 

As a gambler for all my life, and a blackjack dealer for the last 20 years, I agree wholeheartedly.

As my name and avi indicate, gambling (particularly riverboat gambling, Bret Maverick style) is very high on my wishlist.  

And yeah, the arguments about gold bars constituting "real" gambling are so ridiculous I'm falling out my chair over here.  The ONLY thing that would constitute REAL gambling would be REAL cash payouts, which is never ever gonna happen.   So we should be able to gamble with fake money all we like.  And if someone chooses to use real money for microtransactions to up their chip count for a fake poker game, well....more power to brain-dead idiots, I always say

4 hours ago, Bakkerbaard said:

The problem is, as far as Dutch law is concerned, that the law doesn't really know what to do with this.

I barely know anything about Dutch law, aside from that they seem to frown upon stabbing people that cut in line, let alone laws in your respective countries, but I'm willing to hazard a guess that they're not quite sure on how to handle the gambling aspects in a game either and so I presume Rockstar prefers to err on the safe side (is that the expression?).

 

I mean, look at that dumpster fire of Star Wars Battlefield's lootboxes. 

Technically speaking you're getting exactly what you paid meatworld money for: a box with loot. I don't play the game, so I don't know if it is stated anywhere that the loot you get might be a pair of bantha socks instead of the Vader helmet your were hoping for, but that whole deal of not knowing what you're gonna get, or possibly the game not living up to a certain kind of agreement, is, or was, considered to be a form of gambling. 

Personally I blame EA for sparking this nonsense and denying us some quality Wild West gambling, which I would also like to see added, but ultimately this is beside the point.

The point is, I believe, that while gambling in game may not actually be gambling and there may not be an actual law against it, it's a point of debate as laws are trying to keep up with sane people and game developers.

 

One good suggestion I passed by was the use of a third gambling specific currency. That could work in theory, but my counterpoint would be that there's not alot of fun about gambling when there's nothing at stake, so how much use would gambling still have then?

Yeah, loot boxes are literally slot machines.   So that's "real" gambling. 

So far, RDO doesn't seem to have anything like that planned.   #fingerscrossed

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Pocket Fox

I honestly can't see why it can't be added. It's in SP!

 

Just make the poker the version where you each have xx buy in. And you can't buy in again once busted out. After a certain time the blind increases. I forget the exact name for that game of poker, but it'd lend itself well as it caps how much money is on offer. 

Just don't include gold or allow gold and it's not real world cash being used in a game. It's fake digital dollars and no different than SP.

 

It means someone with a gambling addiction can't drop 100 gold bars for real world cash, lose and then be like, damn. In game deniro's only.

 

The saloons feel....eh... with no poker or blackjack.

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BretMaverick777
31 minutes ago, Pocket Fox said:

I honestly can't see why it can't be added. It's in SP!

 

Just make the poker the version where you each have xx buy in. And you can't buy in again once busted out. After a certain time the blind increases. I forget the exact name for that game of poker, but it'd lend itself well as it caps how much money is on offer. 

Just don't include gold or allow gold and it's not real world cash being used in a game. It's fake digital dollars and no different than SP.

 

It means someone with a gambling addiction can't drop 100 gold bars for real world cash, lose and then be like, damn. In game deniro's only.

 

The saloons feel....eh... with no poker or blackjack.

True story:   my online character was able to sit in the dealer's seat at the empty blackjack table in the back of the Old Lighthouse Saloon in Van Horn. 

 

She sat there and wept at the lack of cards and chips.  And players.  

And turned down every hooker's offer that night in the meantime, since she was so sad, and since there's no "Accept" button

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Shadowfennekin

I agree, gambling would be nice

But how about upping the $5 limit from SP? I hated how you couldn't get any "big" games like the high stakes poker you rob in Saint Dennis

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BZXC32

You can play/ download poker apps for your phone or tablet, for which you also can buy chips with real money and where you dont win real money or you cant change your winning back for real money, those apps are also not illegal. So why couldnt it be on a game like rdr? 

 

* the game is rated 18+

Edited by BZXC32

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Happy Hunter

I wouldn't say the game will fail without it, but I do think it should come very soon. No reason for it not to, as long as gold isn't used.

 

The editor would be a smart thing to release soon as well.

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Tha-Jamz
8 hours ago, Bakkerbaard said:

The problem is, as far as Dutch law is concerned, that the law doesn't really know what to do with this.

I barely know anything about Dutch law, aside from that they seem to frown upon stabbing people that cut in line, let alone laws in your respective countries, but I'm willing to hazard a guess that they're not quite sure on how to handle the gambling aspects in a game either and so I presume Rockstar prefers to err on the safe side (is that the expression?).

 

I mean, look at that dumpster fire of Star Wars Battlefield's lootboxes. 

Technically speaking you're getting exactly what you paid meatworld money for: a box with loot. I don't play the game, so I don't know if it is stated anywhere that the loot you get might be a pair of bantha socks instead of the Vader helmet your were hoping for, but that whole deal of not knowing what you're gonna get, or possibly the game not living up to a certain kind of agreement, is, or was, considered to be a form of gambling. 

Personally I blame EA for sparking this nonsense and denying us some quality Wild West gambling, which I would also like to see added, but ultimately this is beside the point.

The point is, I believe, that while gambling in game may not actually be gambling and there may not be an actual law against it, it's a point of debate as laws are trying to keep up with sane people and game developers.

 

One good suggestion I passed by was the use of a third gambling specific currency. That could work in theory, but my counterpoint would be that there's not alot of fun about gambling when there's nothing at stake, so how much use would gambling still have then?

 

Pls dont get me started on Dutch laws, our politician are all numbnuts when it comes to anything related to internet.

 

I’m pretty sure in rdr 1 the house gave everyone money so it was basically just for fun. So maybe they could do that and the winner wins money like any other job in gta online would.

A solution would be to NOT be able to purchase ingame currency with irl money.

Maybe  a simple solution is just be able to gamble ingame cash, and not be able to buy ingame cash with the gold bars.

Gold bars and ingame currency are separate anyway so..., i can see poker coming in Red Dead 2 Online.

 

(just thinking out loud here on workarounds) Come on R* give us poker !

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GTA3Rockstar
1 hour ago, BZXC32 said:

You can play/ download poker apps for your phone or tablet, for which you also can buy chips with real money and where you dont win real money or you cant change your winning back for real money, those apps are also not illegal. So why couldnt it be on a game like rdr? 

 

* the game is rated 18+

 

 

Exactly. This is my argument towards those that said it would be illegal/not allowed.

 

It wouldn't be considered gambling because you can't turn game-currency into real money.

 

 

The only excuse R* could have is trying to prevent players from giving other players money, unless they implement a tracking system.

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kenmy13999
1 hour ago, BZXC32 said:

You can play/ download poker apps for your phone or tablet, for which you also can buy chips with real money and where you dont win real money or you cant change your winning back for real money, those apps are also not illegal. So why couldnt it be on a game like rdr? 

 

* the game is rated 18+

I agree with this and have also thought about using the same argument myself but at the same time, the games might not be available in all countries. 

A little while back I saw something about a company going to remove some games from the Belgium market because of in game buying and gambling laws. Instead of doing anything with the microtransactions, they just removed it from that country.

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Money Over Bullshit
17 hours ago, KingBen said:

 

This is exactly why it won’t be an issue. If you can’t purchase in game money with your real money then there’s nothing illegal about it. Nothing wrong with stockpiling.

I think the authorities might take a different view though is what I'm saying. It's likely why they never opened the casino to players in GTA Online also.

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fejkb

Splitting cash from gold bars made it possible to implement gambling without any possibility of accusing R* for promoting gambling with real money. Imo it’s going to be implemented sooner than we think, but later than we would want it.

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Rithrius

Thing is that international gaming commissions in alot of countries are cracking down on game companies that involve any form of online gambling. Last i heard, EA is on the verge of being sued for refusing to comply and Belgium is close to prohibiting EA from selling their games here completely. That's not something Rockstar can just ignore. Especially considering they're also messing with microtransactions.

 

Even if they make it so you can only gamble with in-game money, said commission might still consider it a form of gambling that minors have access to, and may get them addicted to gambling with real money elsewhere. And then who's going to be blamed? Surely not the parents who let their child buy a game that was clearly age restricted for adults. It must be the evil game company's fault! 🙄
 

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Lonely-Martin
6 minutes ago, Rithrius said:

Thing is that international gaming commissions in alot of countries are cracking down on game companies that involve any form of online gambling. Last i heard, EA is on the verge of being sued for refusing to comply and Belgium is close to prohibiting EA from selling their games here completely. That's not something Rockstar can just ignore. Especially considering they're also messing with microtransactions.

 

Even if they make it so you can only gamble with in-game money, said commission might still consider it a form of gambling that minors have access to, and may get them addicted to gambling with real money elsewhere. And then who's going to be blamed? Surely not the parents who let their child buy a game that was clearly age restricted for adults. It must be the evil game company's fault! 🙄
 

Do agree about the addictiveness you mention. Games are getting heat for being so as it is here at times too (UK, Fortnite had some I remember). Though a like RDR2's warning for gambling, over here a warning on addictiveness would probably be enough, maybe a 16/18 age rating too, which is no issue for RDR of course. But as shown, not just UK to consider though.

 

I think they will add poker and such, but it could open a bag of worms companies are cautious of.

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Dlow-1962
9 minutes ago, Rithrius said:

Thing is that international gaming commissions in alot of countries are cracking down on game companies that involve any form of online gambling. Last i heard, EA is on the verge of being sued for refusing to comply and Belgium is close to prohibiting EA from selling their games here completely. That's not something Rockstar can just ignore. Especially considering they're also messing with microtransactions.

 

Even if they make it so you can only gamble with in-game money, said commission might still consider it a form of gambling that minors have access to, and may get them addicted to gambling with real money elsewhere. And then who's going to be blamed? Surely not the parents who let their child buy a game that was clearly age restricted for adults. It must be the evil game company's fault! 🙄
 

I had to laugh when i read this, even tho i believe what you are saying is true

 

A commission is afraid that Gambling on a game might lead to addiction .........But in the  same games we Rob, Cheat, Steal, and Kill to make money, we can even get drunk ............and they worry about  gambling  

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Rithrius
17 minutes ago, Dlow-1962 said:

I had to laugh when i read this, even tho i believe what you are saying is true

 

A commission is afraid that Gambling on a game might lead to addiction .........But in the  same games we Rob, Cheat, Steal, and Kill to make money, we can even get drunk ............and they worry about  gambling  


And Rockstar has been blamed for many crimes committed by teenagers who were supposedly "influenced by GTA", and even though none of those accusations were able to hold any ground, the point still stands. Basically any game company that tries to put anything remotely controversial in their game these days becomes a target for social justice babies. Here's one such ridiculous example:

 

 

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BretMaverick777

Rockstar doesnt shy away from controversy, they encourage it.  RDR2 continues that tradition.  Theyre not gonna ban gambling just to satisfy the anti-gambling addiction crusaders. 

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Lonely-Martin
35 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Rockstar doesnt shy away from controversy, they encourage it.  RDR2 continues that tradition.  Theyre not gonna ban gambling just to satisfy the anti-gambling addiction crusaders. 

And yet, no hookers here though. :(

 

What I mean is, I have seen an article where someone said something about it being hard to make a new GTA in today's world.

 

Maybe R* are trying to avoid the flack.

Edited by Lonely-Martin

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BretMaverick777
35 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

And yet, no hookers here though. :(

 

What I mean is, I have seen an article where someone said something about it being hard to make a new GTA in today's world.

 

Maybe R* are trying to avoid the flack.

well actually...

 

I mean, the hookers are there, and they're offering.  I think the hooker situation is an engineering problem, not a morality issue.  Looks like the game mechanic simply couldn't get it up for release. 

 

Still betting they're working on it for RDO. 

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Lonely-Martin
1 minute ago, BretMaverick777 said:

well actually...

 

I mean, the hookers are there, and they're offering.  I think the hooker situation is an engineering problem, not a morality issue.  Looks like the game mechanic simply couldn't get it up for release. 

 

Still betting they're working on it for RDO. 

I disagree. 8 years and they put effort into so much but opted to not let us respond positively.

 

Too much time and effort went into that story, testing too I imagine. I feel it was a choice to not add them and added the bathing girls to go a new direction.

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KingBen
4 hours ago, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

I think the authorities might take a different view though is what I'm saying. It's likely why they never opened the casino to players in GTA Online also.

 

No that’s completely different. In GTA you can buy in game money with shark cards. You can’t buy in game money in RDR2. You can only buy gold bars. There’s literally nothing the authorities can do from a legal standpoint if they don’t let you bet with gold bars. Do you understand now?

Edited by KingBen

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Lonely-Martin
10 minutes ago, KingBen said:

 

No that’s completely different. In GTA you can buy in game money with shark cards. You can’t buy in game money in RDR2. You can only buy gold bars. There’s literally nothing the authorities can do from a legal standpoint if they don’t let you bet with gold bars. Do you understand now?

How many countries is the game released in?

 

So many different laws between all those, and if one says no to this in gaming, it might be easier for R* to not go forward as they'll be offering it to some and cutting it from others. Not ideal, IMO.

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Revrico
7 minutes ago, KingBen said:

 

No that’s completely different. In GTA you can buy in game money with shark cards. You can’t buy in game money in RDR2. You can only buy gold bars. There’s literally nothing the authorities can do from a legal standpoint if they don’t let you bet with gold bars. Do you understand now?

So you are familiar with all laws regarding the internet, gambling, and videogames in every country this game is available for sale in? Why don't you work for the UN then?

 

The problems are multifaceted. There are almost 200 countries on the planet, and despite what America and the UK seem to think, their laws are not universal. 

 

Despite the age warnings and it being supposed to be the parents responsibility to know what their kids are doing, most parents don't. They don't even want to know. That means that big international companies need to work around that whether it involves sex, violence, drugs, gambling. They ARE exposing kids to these things, they just are. With everyone taking such a nanny state stance lately in this uberPC world we live in, it's almost not worth the risk.

 

Remember the hot coffee mini game that was cut from San Andreas and how disastrous it was that children could be exposed to sex, the act that created them? 

 

But but but mobile games! And mobile games are much easier to region lock than videogames. Try playing Vegas Slots, where you won actual prizes to cash in in Vegas AND can buy chips to play with with real money in Saudi Arabia or Belgium where they have rather strict online/offline gambling laws. Not gonna happen. 

 

Without getting all great firewall of China, consoles and pcs are much harder to "secure" in a sense. 

 

This is a big feature everybody wants. As much as I think rockstar/take 2 actually hate their customers, I'm willing to bet they've got lawyers trying to figure out how to let them put it in the game, if for no other reason than to sell a "gambler outfit" for 50 gold bars.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that this is NOT the black and white issue everybody wants it to be. Give it time, they may surprise us yet, but don't hold your breath.

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GenericGTAO

Its not about the actual laws on whether gambling is allowed.   Its about whether how gambling in games is being treated by governments.  Studies are being written, not sure on the validity, but they are being written that conclude gambling in video games is leading to actual gambling problems for children.  R* is aware of the issues other developers are suffering, and on the flip side no "loot boxes" are included with RDR2.  They literally do not have to wade into this issue to get money because GTAO had them flush with cash.  Is it sad they cannot be added?  Yeah, I believe poker was added in RDmulti, but times change.  Maybe when things cool off they will add poker.

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Ektope

No to gambling in games

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KingBen

There’s nothing those countries can do about in game gambling. You can gamble in single player already. It’s no different in online except you’re doing it with other players. 

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