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ShadyCreeksKiller

Did R* Intentionally High-Ball RDR2 Online Prices/Grinding

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ghostsoap01
10 hours ago, CaliMeatWagon said:

Ah.... the old "but they've made enough money" argument. Please, tell me more Comrade. 

Lol I'm no communist. I'm a libertarian, good luck next time buddy.

 

10 hours ago, Qbert said:

Do you know how many people they employee? Do you know how many stockholders they have? How much overcost they have? Day to day operations? You kids see those what you think are high numbers and your eyes melt, business is more than just what you made on a good weekend.

As if I don't know these things. You know nothing about my personal life. I have a uni degree and working experience in business admin so you're not telling me anything I don't already know.

Edited by ghostsoap01

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DreadedSilverback
11 hours ago, AddamHusayin said:

They said that anyone who has played red dead online from launch day up until 12 o'clock midnight tonight will receive $250 and 15 gold bars. They also said not everyone would recieve it immediately. I have yet to check but I played on day 1 so I'm guessing the earlier you played the earlier you get the rewards.

Yea weirdly enough end up getting it not long after that post 

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Qbert
8 minutes ago, ghostsoap01 said:

 

 

As if I don't know these things. You know nothing about my personal life. I have a uni degree and working experience in business admin so you're not telling me anything I don't already know.

Didn't say anything about your personal life shouldn't be so touchy. If you know these things then you should know why things are what they are

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ghostsoap01
7 minutes ago, Qbert said:

Didn't say anything about your personal life shouldn't be so touchy. If you know these things then you should know why things are what they are

Never said you said anything about my personal life. I merely said that you were telling me things you assumed I didn't know, to which I informed you I did know. I understand profit margins, and  GTA5 became the largest grossing entertainment product, along with RDR2's greatest launch weekend of all time of 725$M. Now I doubt (admittedly I don't know for certain) that R*'s production costs are dissimilar to other great games companies like CD Projekt Red, who make significantly less earnings than R*. Using that analysis, it leads to the conclusion that R* made enough money (and will continue to) with the single purchase of RDR2 to give great dividends to shareholders, and pay their employees' wages.

Edited by ghostsoap01

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Nutduster
5 hours ago, Qbert said:

Didn't say anything about your personal life shouldn't be so touchy. If you know these things then you should know why things are what they are

 

There are plenty of other ways they could make their money.

 

My objection to this stuff is the same as always: while they chose the microtransaction model because it's very trendy and very successful, it encourages them to intentionally make the game experience worse.  Anyone who is a fan of gaming itself should object to this on general principle.  Up-front pricing (i.e. paying your $60 for a new game) primarily encourages better quality: more content, more fun design for better reviews and word of mouth, in order to sell more copies.  Microtransaction pricing encourages just the opposite: make the game more frustrating and grindy to extract as much money as possible from hooked customers who will pay for a better experience than the sh*tty one you get for free.

 

If you're defending microtransactions and grindy online games that sell you shortcuts all in the name of capitalism, then you have tunnel vision and probably are more of a fan of the stock market than gaming as an art form.

Edited by Nutduster

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Qbert

Well I grew in the days of intellivision back when gaming was in its infancy so microtransactions where not even a term yet. I live in the real world though where I balance my budget between bills food and a few luxuries, I like my games to last I have no parents to run buy me new games or grinding don't bother me plus I come from ffarr so.

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kenmy13999
23 minutes ago, Qbert said:

Well I grew in the days of intellivision back when gaming was in its infancy so microtransactions where not even a term yet. I live in the real world though where I balance my budget between bills food and a few luxuries, I like my games to last I have no parents to run buy me new games or grinding don't bother me plus I come from ffarr so.

Are you trying to say that supporting microtransactions and grindy games is an adult thing? 

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Nutduster
31 minutes ago, Qbert said:

Well I grew in the days of intellivision back when gaming was in its infancy so microtransactions where not even a term yet. I live in the real world though where I balance my budget between bills food and a few luxuries, I like my games to last I have no parents to run buy me new games or grinding don't bother me plus I come from ffarr so.

 

What the hell are you talking about?  By the way, I'm 44.  I buy my own games.  Which is part of why it offends me when I spend a bunch of money on a game and then it asks me for more.

Edited by Nutduster

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Lonely-Martin
19 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

What the hell are you talking about?  By the way, I'm 44.  I buy my own games.  Which is part of why it offends me when I spend a bunch of money on a game and then it asks me for more.

Oh, you'll love it over here dude. ;)

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Juxax

i can't speak for rockstar on this, but when GTAO launched there were bugs, glitches and stuff that allowed players to get millions really quick, they just wanted to make sure that if players did the same on rdo to print money, they wouldn't print much, after all it's a hell of a lot easier, to refund or add additional acurrency to players, then it is to just subtract thousands from gamers; accounts for doing nothing other then playing the game.

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ghostsoap01
4 hours ago, Qbert said:

Well I grew in the days of intellivision back when gaming was in its infancy so microtransactions where not even a term yet. I live in the real world though where I balance my budget between bills food and a few luxuries, I like my games to last I have no parents to run buy me new games or grinding don't bother me plus I come from ffarr so.

I'm in my 20's, but that is besides the point. I also have bills to pay, rent to pay, food to put on the table, electric and heating bills, responsibilities to keep up with, and no parents helping me with anything, so it really sucks when in order to enjoy the game I have to either spend my free time grinding (which isn't fun imo) or spend money I don't have on micro-transactions.

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Qbert

Your missing the point who cares about microtransactions? If you don't want to pay money then don't someone else will, but they were far from forcing you not even close you should check out neverwinter or games like it.  They put microtransactions in games because they know people will buy them it's just how it is.

4 hours ago, Nutduster said:

 

What the hell are you talking about?  By the way, I'm 44.  I buy my own games.  Which is part of why it offends me when I spend a bunch of money on a game and then it asks me for more.

33 minutes ago, ghostsoap01 said:

I'm in my 20's, but that is besides the point. I also have bills to pay, rent to pay, food to put on the table, electric and heating bills, responsibilities to keep up with, and no parents helping me with anything, so it really sucks when in order to enjoy the game I have to either spend my free time grinding (which isn't fun imo) or spend money I don't have on micro-transactions.

This sadly is one reason microtransactions have gotten really bad as companies have tried to take advantage of people who have little time to play and bank on the fact that they will pay to play, some do some don't. There are ups and downs to this but gaming is big business now so they will make money wherever they can 

 

4 hours ago, kenmy13999 said:

Are you trying to say that supporting microtransactions and grindy games is an adult thing? 

I do not support or condone microtransactions business is business and grindy games are just something that occupies you longer than a month 

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Bakkerbaard

There's a difference between the microtransaction in GTAO and RDO and the microtransaction in, say, Candy f*cking Crush, right?

Like, in a phonegame they'll have you pay absurd amounts of money to even keep playing.

 

Rockstar's microtransaction are more favourable towards gamers like myself, though I'm still trying to get a proper feel for RDO's economy, where the in-game money lies and what I need and what I want.

Err... Yeah, good for gamers. What GTAO did well was giving me the option to work for my stuff. I never paid a cent more than the admission price (though I had to pay that three times, due to reasons). I generally worked towards new cars and they would feel more "mine" if I'd earned them.

But if you decided you didn't wanna grind for it, cough up the dough and race on.

 

Right now it's looking like RDO is more friendly to that approach too. Past week I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out how the hell I was gonna cobble together all the cash I needed for all the stuff I defenitely needed to cowboy.

With the adjustment in, it seems easier and all that remains to bother me is the stuff locked behind gold bars, but I'm still not blaming them for making money. Making games at their level costs alot and the more cash they have, the better RDR3 and GTAVI are gonna be.

 

tl;dr

As long as I don't feel I'm being phonegamed, I'm okay.

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gtmike
1 hour ago, ghostsoap01 said:

I'm in my 20's, but that is besides the point. I also have bills to pay, rent to pay, food to put on the table, electric and heating bills, responsibilities to keep up with, and no parents helping me with anything, so it really sucks when in order to enjoy the game I have to either spend my free time grinding (which isn't fun imo) or spend money I don't have on micro-transactions.

Perfect example of an entitled attitude, just regurgitating the same weak arguments they hear on YouTube. Rockstars games are different in that we got everything we paid for in the single player experience. The online is just bonus content, and obviously needs to be monetized somehow. 

 

What enjoyment are you missing out on by not grinding or paying exactly? Why would anyone pay money when they could get everything in the game without any grinding? 

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Tha-Jamz

It could be worse, like games with paid expansions, mtx AND a big grind..., oh and a monthly  fee ;) on PSN or XBOX live Gold that u got to pay for every year as well...

Im not defending mtx but if i dont got the time for the grind or hate grinding and no money for mtx or just dont want to pay for mtx in a game, i wont play or buy  a game like that.

But sinds gaming is my 2nd hobby im willing to --> maybe <-- buy some thru mtx IF <-- the game is really something i like.

 

I really wish that microtransactions would vanish from gaming completely but greed is a ugly thing...

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Nutduster
9 hours ago, Qbert said:

Your missing the point who cares about microtransactions? If you don't want to pay money then don't someone else will, but they were far from forcing you not even close you should check out neverwinter or games like it.

 

1. No, you're missing the point, which I explained quite clearly. The problem isn't the presence of microtransactions; it's the way they alter the game in numerous ways both small and large in order to encourage players to buy. The game being grindy as f*ck if you don't buy is of course the main method. But not the only one. 

 

2. I played Neverwinter at the behest of a friend and because it was free. I uninstalled it once I realized it was just a poorly made Skinner box that charges you for the good pellets. Yes it's worse than Rockstar's online games have been. That doesn't excuse what they're doing.

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ghostsoap01
21 hours ago, gtmike said:

Perfect example of an entitled attitude, just regurgitating the same weak arguments they hear on YouTube. Rockstars games are different in that we got everything we paid for in the single player experience. The online is just bonus content, and obviously needs to be monetized somehow. 

 

What enjoyment are you missing out on by not grinding or paying exactly? Why would anyone pay money when they could get everything in the game without any grinding? 

Lol how is that an entitled attitude? Is it entitled to not want to be gouged of money I can't allocate to gaming? The game I payed for was not just a single-player game, it was a game that has a story mode and a multiplayer mode. R* is clever in naming it as a separate product so that they (and you for some reason) can make the argument that "its two different products and both need to be monetized".

 

As for the enjoyment I am missing out on, its the fact that the game is built on a grind system, that throws out the fun experience of immersing yourself into a world and instead puts a "do this mission or pvp series mode and rinse & repeat". Its not that I am not doing something, causing it to be not fun; its that the game was not designed to be fun, but rather to be a money farm.

 

I just don't understand why so many "Yes-Men" are coming to the defense of a company who wants to gouge them of their money.

Edited by ghostsoap01

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Qbert
16 hours ago, Nutduster said:

 

1. No, you're missing the point, which I explained quite clearly. The problem isn't the presence of microtransactions; it's the way they alter the game in numerous ways both small and large in order to encourage players to buy. The game being grindy as f*ck if you don't buy is of course the main method. But not the only one. 

 

2. I played Neverwinter at the behest of a friend and because it was free. I uninstalled it once I realized it was just a poorly made Skinner box that charges you for the good pellets. Yes it's worse than Rockstar's online games have been. That doesn't excuse what they're doing.

I don't believe you understand business very well. I will try to explain again companies like money you like money I like money we all like money so why not try to make some extra money off your product? Microtransactions only alter the game if you let them to be honest, some people will buy some won't why would you care? The game is not very grindy really as I believe your referring to prices, making money was never hard and is even easier now if you can't make money now you just ain't trying.

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Nutduster
12 hours ago, Qbert said:

I don't believe you understand business very well. I will try to explain again companies like money you like money I like money we all like money so why not try to make some extra money off your product? Microtransactions only alter the game if you let them to be honest, some people will buy some won't why would you care? The game is not very grindy really as I believe your referring to prices, making money was never hard and is even easier now if you can't make money now you just ain't trying.

 

f*cking LOL.  I work for a big company and run a business at home.  I believe I understand business pretty well.  As a result of that, I also understand that art and commerce are often at odds, so it is up to the customers - i.e. us - to voice our displeasure when these businesses who sell us art end up prioritizing commerce too heavily over art.  If the market doesn't punish them, they'll keep making things worse and getting away with as much as possible.

 

I'd also like to single out one thing:
 

Quote


Microtransactions only alter the game if you let them to be honest

 

 

That is a deeply stupid statement.  When the game is designed to encourage microtransaction sales from the ground up, it has ALREADY been altered.  How you choose to play it is effectively irrelevant.  Look at GTA Online - look at all those business missions that take 15-20 minutes, making you go from one end of the map to the other and back for a stupid fetch quest.  That's the game being altered right there.  No one in the design team looked at that and said, "Yes, players will enjoy this excruciating boredom - especially if they have to do it 100 times to buy one car."  That is a design choice that is made strictly because they want you to opt out and pay real money for the car instead.  The game was altered before you ever turned it on.

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areyouchappin

Micro-transactions are all due to Pay 2 Play phone games. Normal Video Game Companies are taking note from those companies because people still pay loads of money into those games months or years after the initial release.

 

GTA:Online basically became Pay 2 Play after 3 years of being released. It is incredibly difficult today for a brand new player in GTA:Online to become "rich" without the aid of Shark Cards. You need a Crew or Friends that are seasoned Vets who can help you out with Heists and missions. Otherwise that brand new player will be grinding for a very, very, VERY long time.

 

Unfortunately, Red Dead Online will eventually become exactly like GTA:Online.

 

The most basic marketing scheme is to overprice your products, that way you can put specials and discounts on it that lower the price to where you actually need it but consumers will be none the wiser because all they see is "wow, I saved money on this purchase!"

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Qbert

I blame this YouTube generation for most of this basically people just mindless repeat whatever they say like sheep. They make a video about how these microtransactions are ruining the game and people watch it go to the forums and just spread whatever point said tuber was attempting to make, gets old really. This is not only true for opinions but how others play as well ie carbon copy loadouts on games etc look at that little saint denis roof xp spot lol so many cheap fast level ups. Do you know why so many games are copying gtas formula? Because it's successful both for the players and the makers, did gta online have anything to it when it came out no but it grew in part through the microtransactions people seem to despise so much. 

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Maddened_Ghost

This is has been the plan all along, they know what they're down, with the new adjustments everyone's like "yEs rOcKsTaR lIsTenEd tO uS" thinking that we got a deal, yet it was the plan all along.

 

One hour of playtesting would show the grindy side of this game, the whole "they made a mistake" or "they didn't know" is just dumb and makes no sense.

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Nutduster
2 hours ago, Qbert said:

I blame this YouTube generation for most of this basically people just mindless repeat whatever they say like sheep. They make a video about how these microtransactions are ruining the game and people watch it go to the forums and just spread whatever point said tuber was attempting to make, gets old really. This is not only true for opinions but how others play as well ie carbon copy loadouts on games etc look at that little saint denis roof xp spot lol so many cheap fast level ups. Do you know why so many games are copying gtas formula? Because it's successful both for the players and the makers, did gta online have anything to it when it came out no but it grew in part through the microtransactions people seem to despise so much. 

 

Once again, I'm 44. I'm not part of the YouTube generation and I don't get my opinions from them. I earned my opinion about this issue the hard way: playing GTA Online for almost 5 years, and suffering through a lot of bullsh*t.

 

For a guy who can barely put together a coherent paragraph, you sure do like to condescend.

Edited by Nutduster

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MrGhostface

Sweaty balls 

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Qbert
17 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

 

Once again, I'm 44. I'm not part of the YouTube generation and I don't get my opinions from them. I earned my opinion about this issue the hard way: playing GTA Online for almost 5 years, and suffering through a lot of bullsh*t.

 

For a guy who can barely put together a coherent paragraph, you sure do like to condescend.

No it's just rather hard arguing with stubborn people who believe their point of view is the correct point of view. I played dcuo for over 8 year's seen the good and bad of microtransactions pay to win or play whatever you want to call it but in the end the game was very enjoyable met a lot of very cool people had a lot of fun with it. Some of the changes I really liked some I really didn't but I still played it much like you played gta, why because you enjoyed it. Did you buy shark cards? Yes you did as did I as did many so what?

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Hatin Since 87

I can’t believe this is even a debate. Microtransactions definitely effect the game. If it didn’t why are prices so much higher than in SP? Why are some horses locked behind gold bars? They encourage players who work full time and don’t have time to grind to take a shortcut and buy their microtransactions. The fact people defend this is the reason it will continue growing and getting worse. 

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Nutduster
2 hours ago, Qbert said:

No it's just rather hard arguing with stubborn people who believe their point of view is the correct point of view. I played dcuo for over 8 year's seen the good and bad of microtransactions pay to win or play whatever you want to call it but in the end the game was very enjoyable met a lot of very cool people had a lot of fun with it. Some of the changes I really liked some I really didn't but I still played it much like you played gta, why because you enjoyed it. Did you buy shark cards? Yes you did as did I as did many so what?

 

Your brain is broken.

 

12 minutes ago, Hatin Since 87 said:

I can’t believe this is even a debate. Microtransactions definitely effect the game. If it didn’t why are prices so much higher than in SP? Why are some horses locked behind gold bars? They encourage players who work full time and don’t have time to grind to take a shortcut and buy their microtransactions. The fact people defend this is the reason it will continue growing and getting worse. 

 

Exactly. It's simple and obvious, yet some will keep trying to defend it. Amazing. It's fine if you're willing to put up with it because you like the rest of the game so much, but please don't try to lie to yourself about these aspects - and definitely don't think you can lie to me. My eyes are open.

Edited by Nutduster

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kenmy13999
4 hours ago, Qbert said:

No it's just rather hard arguing with stubborn people who believe their point of view is the correct point of view.

Funny you say that.. so you're believing your point of view is the correct point of view ;)

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HanSoloYolo

I kind of thought they did it on purpose, so the player would experience how difficult it is to earn an honest wage and experience the hardships of the wild west, then they would allow us rob banks & businesses and make the big bucks later.

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Lonely-Martin
13 hours ago, Qbert said:

No it's just rather hard arguing with stubborn people who believe their point of view is the correct point of view. 

Right back at ya bub, lol. You literally are doing just that and process to 'be in the know' too. Classic forums though.

 

And f*ck YouTube with all its bullsh*t. That's one thing my son is banned from exploring with his gaming, not the game itself, the tube is very unsuitable and a poor example, IMHO.

 

It's a very clear that, when mission pay is decided by how deliberately long we take instead of rewarding teamwork and efficiency, (and locking content to gold exclusively in this game's case too, the game is warped into favouring a mobile-esque pay to win way. Gaming is being killed.

 

Very simple really. And yes, in this case, I firmly do believe my opinion is correct, and shared by many. Except the whales that buy into this petty way to game.

Edited by Lonely-Martin
Spelling.

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