The Casino & Gambling Thread

[fw3]

Very simple discussion topic:

At this stage of the game, how would a Casino & Gambling DLC impact the GTAO player landscape and experience?

With a range of new minigames and gambling options, Jobs, contact missions, vehicles, clothing, etc., it could be one of those things that could, potentially, drive players right back into the lap of GTAO.

And with good reason: there's a lot of money to be made and lost in it!

A long time ago on this forum, I proposed an idea of adding lottery tickets to GTAO... I mean, they are actually already in the game at the convenience stores.
It would be a welcomed addition to a potential Casino & Gambling DLC, right?

What's crazy about it is the opportunity for R* to actually make money from something that is just sitting there, doing nothing.
But perhaps that's the point?

Maybe the Casino, along with the horse racing track, are part of long-term plan to release after RDRO, to potentially lure players back to Los Santos?
What do you think? Is that a reasonable deduction or is it highly unlikely?

And would this be something that would be of interest to you?

Now that we have nightclubs, much like Vice City and San Andreas, what's to keep us from having a working Casino (or even food chains, for that matter! lol!)?

TL;DR
How would the introduction of a Casino & Gambling DLC impact both your personal gameplay in GTAO, as well as the larger community, overall?

As always, I'm just curious and would be interested to hear the thoughts of others. Cheers and thanks!

This is the photo of in-game lottery tickets I posted a couple of years back in the Come Shopping With Me thread. I LOVE "Barf Up the Cash!" lol!

 

[The Wandering Hunter]

id play all the games, remember i don’t have the slightest clue how most of them work since i don’t gamble irl, lose all the money, then never go back.

 

if they added new missions i’d play them to death, and if they added a new decent semi passive business i’d fully upgrade it and then go afk.

[fw3]

33 minutes ago, The Wandering Hunter said:

id play all the games... i don’t have the slightest clue how most of them work since i don’t gamble irl, lose all the money, then never go back.

I think, perhaps, that would be the appeal. For players unfamiliar with irl gambling, it would be fun to spin the wheel, call the cards, or roll the dice.
For people familiar with it, the appeal might be even greater. 

The one thing that has me wondering, though, is how would this work for R* if people are paying real money for Shark Cards and literally gambling it away in the GTAO casino?
Could that present a conflict of interest for R*, since it could be perceived as "real" gambling, especially to younger people?

Maybe that's why the Casino has never been activated... too many legal entanglements?

Interesting perspective, @The Wandering Hunter. Cheers!

[BestName]

I love Poker and i would play it 24/7 in GTAO but i dont think its gonna happen because they need a new currency for it. A currency you can only earn by playing the game and no real money. That means rockstar would earn nothing from it but they would get alot more active players if the casino is really good. They could make use of JPs i dont know.

[Lonely-Martin]

GTA V doesn't have one thing RDR2 has...

 

A gambling warning on the box. I just can't see it in today's world of where everything like this or other adult content can become a problem long term, like booze and smokes.

 

Also believe it's part of the plan for RDRO too, as gambling in story with cents really isn't warning worthy, lol.

 

But I would welcome it though. I love a bit of poker, many other games similar too. And with horses at the track, that casino is very much wasted potential.

 

The kids asking for cash or for us to lose to bump their bank would grow, teams would exploit it that way too I believe. Probably needs a second currency so cash card purchasing can't get you in, but an option in the inventory to set a percentage of job pay from missions could be a way to build a gambling pot to avoid some issues.

 

Bring it on I say. And if kids everywhere are running up tabs on their parents bank IRL, might make some parents start to give a f*ck about how exposed their kids are too, so much ignorance in gaming atm.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Lonely-Martin

[Sleepwalking]

Too bad casino still stuck in "opening soon" state even after 5 years.

 

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, fw3 said:

The one thing that has me wondering, though, is how would this work for R* if people are paying real money for Shark Cards and literally gambling it away in the GTAO casino?

I think that's the point R* would have to navigate the gameplay around. R* will be otherwise buried in the diverse national online gambling legislation thrown at them, regardless whether the cases made are solid or not. 

Just look at how debates here on the forums evolve, whenever the subject is brought up. People will tear them apart, I can see outraged citizens looting and vandalizing in the streets already should R* ever open the casino for purchasable cash to be sunk into them.  

 

Personally, I don't see a problem in this, however.

R* can just introduce a limit to usable money, such that only money earned within in that very session is available for casino games "betting screens".

Or they introduce casino chips / jetons that are disconnected from money system entirely, and have to be earned in some preparation mission, or even handed out on a daily basis.

So R* gets their money as usual by hiding the Casino entrance behind a paywall. Maybe: You have to buy that fancy mansion, so you are now a member of High society and allowed into the casino; or you simply have to act as investor to help get the casino finally opened, something that could be connected to Nightclub theme.

 

Hey, they could link the gambling money pool directly to the nightclub's safe even 

 

-----

 

On topic: I would very much embrace whatever gameplay and scenery a casino offers, though I fear not much of it would be soloable . I just don't see R* finally introducing AI stand-ins in multiplayer games online, even if they could easily (works perfectly fine in story mode).

 

So I am more speaking about casino related missions, that I will greedily breathe in, it's very much on my roleplay-line.

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Guest

[whywontyoulisten]

I can't wait for the opportunity to drive a Boxville to Paleto Bay to retrieve a box of chips.

[Pankypops]

If they do allow gambling in game, they'll probably keep the bets to a maximum of $1000 (race betting .etc.) and will obviously have a max gambling capacity per in game day or something, with a refresh timer. I doubt they want to land in trouble with microtransactions + gambling since EA is being investigated atm.

The smart thing to do with Casinos is make heists with two options to choose from (smart/loud).

[Sanches]

I don't really wait for casino to open, not in LS (Las Venturas map expansion :DDD). I don't know how to play any of these games casino can offer. My closest experience was playing blackjack on Nokia phone.

Even if there will be a gambling DLC, my bet is that it will burn out quick just like nightclubs. Why make 2000 dollas a day of gambling if you can go outside and raise your k/d?

[Pankypops]

51 minutes ago, Sanches said:

Why make 2000 dollas a day of gambling if you can go outside and raise your k/d?

I really hope for your sake that you're only directing this comment at other tryhards and not implicating yourself as one.

[The Wandering Hunter]

btw i think the reason for having 2 currencies in rdr is so you can’t gamble with real money if they add gambling

2 hours ago, whywontyoulisten said:

I can't wait for the opportunity to drive a Boxville to Paleto Bay to retrieve a box of chips.

CONGRADULATIONS, you have won $10000 playing poker, we can’t process winnings that large on site. please drive this faggio to the bank in polito bay to collect your winnings

[dragosani00]

It will never happen, too much of a can of worms due to the ability to buy in game currency via shark cards. It would essentially allow under 18s to gamble real money & even worse there would be no facility to withdraw any winnings*. I am pretty sure R* would be required to get some sort of licence from the UK Gambling Commission as UK players would potentially be gambling real money and/or the same in other countries & this would never be granted for the 2 reasons already stated.

 

*Even if there was a withrdawal facility it would open another whole new can of worms relating to money laundering which would come under various countries' legislations. You can just imagine a load of Russian gangsters sitting in front of a row of screens deliberately losing hundreds of thousands of <currency> to associates in other countries by folding poker hands etc.

Edited December 6, 2018 by dragosani00

[SantasLittleHelper]

I think that poker in Red Dead Online is possible thanks to the two separate currencies. GTA Online, however, has only GTA$, which means that a Shark Card you buy could go straight to the LS Casino. This issue is probably the main reason why the Casino stays closed. Instead of the microtransactions, you would pay for playing hazard. The only chance the LS Casino would ever get opened is an introduction of a new, casino-exclusive currency, which you couldn't buy for real money...

But that wouldn't make Rockstar /T2I any money. The same goes for the lottery tickets.

 

But don't get me wrong, I would love to see the LS Casino opened... Or at least have a casino-themed heist

Edited December 6, 2018 by SantasLittleHelper

[Taterman]

6 hours ago, Lucy_Woooolfe said:

Personally, I don't see a problem in this, however.

R* can just introduce a limit to usable money, such that only money earned within in that very session is available for casino games "betting screens".

Or they introduce casino chips / jetons that are disconnected from money system entirely, and have to be earned in some preparation mission, or even handed out on a daily basis.

So R* gets their money as usual by hiding the Casino entrance behind a paywall. Maybe: You have to buy that fancy mansion, so you are now a member of High society and allowed into the casino; or you simply have to act as investor to help get the casino finally opened, something that could be connected to Nightclub theme.

 

Hey, they could link the gambling money pool directly to the nightclub's safe even 

 

-----

 

On topic: I would very much embrace whatever gameplay and scenery a casino offers, though I fear not much of it would be soloable . I just don't see R* finally introducing AI stand-ins in multiplayer games online, even if they could easily (works perfectly fine in story mode).

 

So I am more speaking about casino related missions, that I will greedily breathe in, it's very much on my roleplay-line.

 

 

 

 

I really like these ideas and think they could work.

[Pedinhuh]

Well, well, well...This kind of thread again, I swear one of these comes up at least three times in month here.

 

Anyway, for me it would be indifferent, so they might as well add it to the game, it won't affect me.

 

In fact, I have never saw the appeal of gambling games unless I'm sure that I could win something on them.

[kcole4001]

I remember I didn't spend a lot of time (or money) gambling in the previous edition casino.

I wasn't winning very much, so got bored of it quickly.

Now, if they put some pool tables in there, I'm on it big time! (gambling or otherwise).

 

In regards to gambling in RDR, you just cannot have an old west themed game without gambling, at cards specifically.

It just isn't done, old chap! 

 

At any rate, there should be a cap on bets, you won't be able to make a fortune at it, but it's good for fun.

[FrozenDanCicle]

Make it so you buy chips with job points.  Once you turn chips to cash that's it.  

 

No cap on bets, players can play other players.  Since job points are the only way to buy chips, there isn't really a major way to transfer money to others.  Now, could a good gambler amass a small fortune then give it to another?  Sure, but this would be very few and very far between.  

 

I would love to end a good mission run by hitting the casino and taking some hands.

 

 

It would also give me something to work towards.  Getting enough chips so I can play million dollar hands against others.

 

They could even add a 'secret' arms dealer who operates at the casino, who only accepts chips for his product.  This would essentially mean that the only way to get his guns or whatever is through play time to get job points.  Would help slow the roll of players like me who can buy all day 1.  Some might hate it but id like having to work toward something.  I can still buy most on day 1 but if also get to savor when I get enough chips to buy X

Edited December 6, 2018 by FrozenDanCicle

[FuturePastNow]

57 minutes ago, FrozenDanCicle said:

Make it so you buy chips with job points.  Once you turn chips to cash that's it. 

 

Basically.

 

Someone on this forum made a post describing a way they could avoid real-money consequences for gambling; I wish I could cite the post properly but it was a long ass time ago and search is failing me. Anyway, it went like this:

 

The Casino boss (or a mob guy, someone connected with the Casino) would be added as a job contact. You'd take jobs from him, doing a variety of things like stealing booze, collecting VIPs, defending the Casino, whatever. You all know the kinds of missions R* would make. Instead of being paid in cash, you're paid in casino chips. You can turn the casino chips into cash, or you can gamble with them at the Casino games, but the transaction is one-way.

[fw3]

3 hours ago, Pedinhuh said:

Well, well, well...This kind of thread again, I swear one of these comes up at least three times in month here.

I agree that there's been discussion in the past, but this one varies in that it's now 2018 – five years into the lifespan of the game – AND with RDR2 out, and having a gambling aspect to it, I was hoping it was a worthwhile chat to explore.

What's funnier is how R* including Gambling in past iterations of GTA. Why they decided to completely abandon it with GTAV is still quite a mystery worth talking about.

[MostlyPonies]

Quote

Of most significance to game companies, some courts found that virtual items, which could not be cashed out, were not “something of value.” As a result, these courts held that wining such virtual items was not gambling.

 

Another basis upon which some of the courts dismissed these claims was that the game companies were not gambling winners for purposes of the gambling loss recovery statutes. The courts reasoned that when a game company sells a virtual item, it makes a set profit upon the occurrence of the transaction. It does not stand to gain or lose based on any outcome or what a player does with the virtual items. It is important to note that this basis alone does not necessarily mean there is no gambling. Rather, it means that the statutory basis for a gambling loss recovery action against a game company is not satisfied.

 

In all but one of the four cases that were dismissed, the plaintiff lost on appeal as well. In one case, the Ninth Circuit overturned a Washington state district court dismissal. In that case, the Ninth Circuit focused on the specific definition of “thing of value” under Washington law. Under the relevant Washington law, “gambling” is defined as:
1) Staking or risking something of value 
2) upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under the person’s control or influence,
3) upon an agreement or understanding that the person or someone else will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome.

 

The Ninth Circuit’s decision largely turned on the meaning of “something of value.” It stated that under Washington state law, a “thing of value” includes any money or property as well as extension of a service, entertainment or a privilege of playing at a game or scheme without charge. The Ninth Circuit held that in the game under review, virtual chips permit a user to play the casino games and if a user runs out of virtual chips they can wait for more free chips or buy more chips to have ‘the privilege of playing the game. Because the virtual chips extend the privilege of playing the games, the Court determined that they constitute “something of value” and fall within Washington’s definition of gambling.

Full document: https://www.lawofthelevel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/187/2018/09/All-Bets-Are-On_Gambling-and-Video-Games-Article-0918.pdf

[Pankypops]

16 hours ago, dragosani00 said:

You can just imagine a load of Russian gangsters sitting in front of a row of screens deliberately losing hundreds of thousands of <currency> to associates in other countries by folding poker hands etc.

Couldn't stop laughing after reading this.

[Lonely-Martin]

4 hours ago, MostlyPonies said:

Full document: https://www.lawofthelevel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/187/2018/09/All-Bets-Are-On_Gambling-and-Video-Games-Article-0918.pdf

Is that just an American law though, or just Washington even?

 

If so, as much as they might see it that way, there's many countries with their own interpretation that could prove to be a stumbling block is all.

[MostlyPonies]

1 hour ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Is that just an American law though, or just Washington even?

 

If so, as much as they might see it that way, there's many countries with their own interpretation that could prove to be a stumbling block is all.

Just American law. We'll likely not see the casino open anytime soon because there's no consensus in America on the issues, much less consensus among different countries.

[Lonely-Martin]

33 minutes ago, MostlyPonies said:

Just American law. We'll likely not see the casino open anytime soon because there's no consensus in America on the issues, much less consensus among different countries.

Yeah, so very true unfortunately. Potential is there but this game I think missed it's chance.

[Coleco]

1 hour ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Potential is there but this game I think missed it's chance.

GTAO in a nutshell tbh 

 

 

 

I have so much money to squander on Blackjack and nowhere to spend it. I get why the whole 'No casino because of legal issues' might be a thing, but it'd be nice to have one in game like in GTA:SA. Then again i'm not really the gambling type so I'd probably find limited appeal in a Casino - however, I can definitely see how it could be exploited or abused in ways that damage a player's experience.

 

Probably wouldn't have been an issue if Shark Cards weren't a thing

 

Just sayin 

[Lonely-Martin]

1 minute ago, Coleco said:

GTAO in a nutshell tbh 

 

 

 

I have so much money to squander on Blackjack and nowhere to spend it. I get why the whole 'No casino because of legal issues' might be a thing, but it'd be nice to have one in game like in GTA:SA. Then again i'm not really the gambling type so I'd probably find limited appeal in a Casino - however, I can definitely see how it could be exploited or abused in ways that damage a player's experience.

 

Probably wouldn't have been an issue if Shark Cards weren't a thing

 

Just sayin 

A game as big as GTA:O got over these 5 years or so, it really is just a shame that all the side fun from GTA's past never made the cut. Same with RDR2 by cutting liar's dice and horseshoes too. Really is just much fun in these modes I feel. And more too with that casino/horse track. Like you said there, GTA in a nutshell is just a huge game of missed opportunities. All they could have done is add the odd bit of fun like the office with the little computer game there with each DLC and they wouldn't of hampered their cards or stopped players looking to run a business.

 

Might have eased the AFK gaming too. I get why many do that of course, but in part it's also because old things here like tennis just dried up through R* not incentivising it a little more. Giving more reason to play or mix it all up. Too much emphasis on the cash, especially with the phone calls/texts.

 

GTA next has so many possibilities now going forward, not all good IMO, but so much good is there too.

[SpatchCock]

Yep, the main issue has been touched on; 'Shark Cards'. Different kettle of fish for Rockstar with that one.

 

There's been a lot of discussion about the moral and legal implications of microtransactions on this forum but no topic has come close to REALLY putting them under the microscope until gambling was mentioned. Of course it's not an original topic (no offence OP). Casinos have been mentioned and requested for some time now, and I think you've collectively answered the question.

 

Casinos and Gambling in the way that some of you are getting hyped about cannot happen in GTAO while real-world money is changing hands. For a start, there is a minimum age for gambling in most countries, and as most of us are acutely aware, a minimum age 'barrier' is not something R* can implement in any way.

 

Shark Cards are a major revenue stream for R*, and they simply will not be able to pass casinos off as 'Gameplay' it just won't happen. The most any of us can hope for is Pub or Bar poker and dominoes with a tiny pot up for grabs.

 

Anything approaching million dollar pots will never happen, it can't, the law won't allow it.

[Coleco]

@Lonely-Martin - I couldn't agree more!

[Cackling Jack]

Gambling eh? Really miss the days were I used to go into Los Santos and bet millions of dollars on one freaking horse in San Andreas at the betting shop then kill the ppl behind the counter. They should change the sign on the casino to “Opening Soon! (Sarcasm )