RDR2 Online problems that need fixing.

[Gallows]

Just now, Lonely-Martin said:

I have to agree with Kenmy there, people chose to exploit it. Had R* added flipside or a ststem where to activate passive we had to go to the apartment, it couldn't be an exploit.

 

It was poorly designed and exploited, sure. But avoidable if done right and many didn't exploit it too. I know I didn't. I needed it so I wasn't blind killed after jobs.

Of course but everything that can be exploited will be exploited.

 

Still I do not want a game where someone can shoot me in PvP and then when I see him an hour later he can just laugh in my face from passive mode, follow me around and suddenly decide to again engage me in PvP. Even with restrictions it’s going to be toxic mixing PvP and passive mode.

 

 

[Lonely-Martin]

1 minute ago, Gallows said:

Of course but everything that can be exploited will be exploited.

 

Still I do not want a game where someone can shoot me in PvP and then when I see him an hour later he can just laugh in my face from passive mode, follow me around and suddenly decide to again engage me in PvP. Even with restrictions it’s going to be toxic mixing PvP and passive mode.

Only exploited by exploiters. A simple fix...

 

Ban 'em. Take reporting serious. Set deterrents. So easy!

[Gallows]

8 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Only exploited by exploiters. A simple fix...

 

Ban 'em. Take reporting serious. Set deterrents. So easy!

Haha lol. Banning has not helped a lot. An exploitable system will be exploided and poor band aid solutions like banning will not help and R* will never ban enough people. I’d rather the system is sound and not exploitable.

 

PvE lobbies is the perfekt fix. Passive is a very poor one, that leads to other just as infuriating problems.

 

Sorry, I genuinly laughed when reading it. Was not in any way to be meant as an insult to you. But banning has been as effective as threathening people with going to hell for cheating

Edited December 6, 2018 by Gallows

[Lonely-Martin]

6 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Haha lol. Banning has not helped a lot. An exploitable system will be exploided and poor band aid solutions like banning will not help.

Ban ISP's, Sony and Microsoft must do more too. Laugh it up though, if nothing is done to stop it, it grows each day. Yes, banning works if done right. Of course some will try again, but only so many times can someone bump into a brick wall and not move on to other things weaker in their way.

 

Banning in GTA, reports too. Just became a mockery as it is too easy to just go again. Stop that, or heavily hamper it, many get bored. Innocent/legit gaming thrives. And GTA particularly has been exposed as a very flawed automated service. Man it and head complaints/reports instead of blanketing it. 

 

Going after seven sins would help too.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Lonely-Martin
Spelling.

[Gallows]

Just now, Lonely-Martin said:

Ban ISP's, Sony and Microsoft must do more too. Laugh it up though, if nothing is done to stop it, it grows each day. Yes, banning works if done right. Of course some will try again, but only so many times can someone bump into a brick wall and not move on to other things weaker in their way.

 

Banning in GTA, reports too. Just became a mockery as it is too easy to just go again. Stop that, or heavily hamper it, many get bored. Innocent/legit gaming thrives. And GTA particularly has been exposed as a very flawed automated service. Man it and head vomplaints/reports instead of blanketing it. 

Yes bans work if done right, but companies never will and honest gamers suffer. Designing the system to not be easily exploited is the only real solution.

[Lonely-Martin]

Just now, Gallows said:

Yes bans work if done right, but companies never will and honest gamers suffer. Designing the system to not be easily exploited is the only real solution.

Yep. Hence my mention of cooldowns, apartments and stumbling blocks for exploiters/cheats. 

 

Easy if they don't make a system exploitable really. Watching that site I mention and acting when sh*t like god mode (that's been in GTA for months now) does much.

[Gallows]

1 minute ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Yep. Hence my mention of cooldowns, apartments and stumbling blocks for exploiters/cheats. 

 

Easy if they don't make a system exploitable really. Watching that site I mention and acting when sh*t like god mode (that's been in GTA for months now) does much.

I want a PvP environment and passive mode effectively ruins open world PvP as you never know who’s In and who’s out. I want a consistent PvP environment, not some half baked wierd system. PvE lobbies makes both playstyles viable, passive mode does not.

[Talisman_83]

6 hours ago, Gallows said:

You should be stuck in PvE. There is nothing more toxic than people in passive mode who suddenly pop out and attack you and then go back to passive when they can.

 

Either you play PvE or you play PvP and deal with it.

 

Thank you Mr Rockstar Games for your wisdom.

 

The only compromise I'd be happy with would be invite only lobbies.

No need to enter passive and I can play with friends. Sorted.

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Talisman_83

[Lonely-Martin]

1 hour ago, Gallows said:

I want a PvP environment and passive mode effectively ruins open world PvP as you never know who’s In and who’s out. I want a consistent PvP environment, not some half baked wierd system. PvE lobbies makes both playstyles viable, passive mode does not.

Aye, we agree there on the PvP side of things. Trouble is, I'm the opposite and after the PvE of it, so while I totally get ya, if we don't get lobby choice, I'll be without the game too for what I want too, lol.

 

I'll give time of course as we said above about seeing where it all goes, but if I really have to choose another way, I don't see an alternative.

 

Really is frustrating in that I may request something I do agree is poisonous in ways TBH.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Lonely-Martin
Spelling.

[AmyStone]

Friends only sessions would solve most of my problems. Yesterday I had the most fun I've ever had in the game for about half an hour. Just going around with a friend hunting and selling was really relaxing with no other players around.

[Fugitive21]

I am at a loss here on this passive subject.

 

I have played everyday since last Friday. The only time I seen griefers is in valentine and blackwater or coming out of a PVP match when everybody is in the same area. I have been able to sell cleanly in strawberry and rhodes with no issues. Rhodes is a ghost town easy to get in sell, buy, and get out.

 

In the open world I might get a moron or 2 but nothing that would make me go into passive mode like GTA.

 

Not saying there isn't an issue but I haven't seen in the sessions I am in.

 

Last night I seen 1 guy getting shot up. In voice chat he wanted revenge but sucked at shooting. Instead of leaving town and accepting his loss he kept trying to get his revenge. DUH! dude cut your loss and get out of town. We even shot the griefer dead but this guy had such a hard on to kill the griefer.

 

[Gallows]

Just now, Fugitive21 said:

I am at a loss here on this passive subject.

 

I have played everyday since last Friday. The only time I seen griefers is in valentine and blackwater or coming out of a PVP match when everybody is in the same area. I have been able to sell cleanly in strawberry and rhodes with no issues. Rhodes is a ghost town easy to get in sell, buy, and get out.

 

In the open world I might get a moron or 2 but nothing that would make me go into passive mode like GTA.

 

Not saying there isn't an issue but I haven't seen in the sessions I am in.

 

Last night I seen 1 guy getting shot up. In voice chat he wanted revenge but sucked at shooting. Instead of leaving town and accepting his loss he kept trying to get his revenge. DUH! dude cut your loss and get out of town. We even shot the griefer dead but this guy had such a hard on to kill the griefer.

 

Same experience here. I’ve had a few violent encounters but once you have been killed three times you can parley. Griefing has not been an issue in any lobbies I have been in. Sure I’ve died once right at the butcher, but it’s very peaceful compared to my GTA experiences.

[IKilledMyHorseAgain]

14 hours ago, Arkane said:

"Horse not available, calling Scrawny Nag"....

 

So you mean, you're gonna call a horse that was nowhere near me, or might have even been stabled, when you could do the same thing with the horse I actually want?

 

*Sigh* That poor out of shape horse has been the death of me on many occasions.

 

Sounds like you have killed your horse and now are lucky enough to get the scrawny nag everytime you log on!!      This is what you need to do, Hit left on the directional pad--Go to Stables--Go to Owned Horses--Now select "Heal Horse".  Itll cost you $4 but ill spend $4 100 times before i pay 5 gold bars for insurance.  That will heal your horse and get it back to normal operation. 

[kenmy13999]

4 hours ago, Gallows said:

Lol WTF? That could be said about everything that griefers use to grief. Fact is, passive mode is a very bad solution. Making PvE and PvP lobbies is a pure solution. No way to exploit that system.

Lol WTF, lol.. 

It’s not a bad mechanic if implemented right, of course there will always be some people that will exploit what can be exploited but that's just a really small part of the playerbase.. 

Nowhere did I say it was a better solution than pve, pvp lobbies, infact I didn't say it was a solution at all, I just explained why it's nowhere as toxic as you make it out to be

 

And also, most things people use to grief is meant to be used to griefing/fighting/pvp (or whatever you want to call it) and can't be put in the same category as a bad implemented feature 

[Gallows]

24 minutes ago, kenmy13999 said:

Lol WTF, lol.. 

It’s not a bad mechanic if implemented right, of course there will always be some people that will exploit what can be exploited but that's just a really small part of the playerbase.. 

Nowhere did I say it was a better solution than pve, pvp lobbies, infact I didn't say it was a solution at all, I just explained why it's nowhere as toxic as you make it out to be

 

And also, most things people use to grief is meant to be used to griefing/fighting/pvp (or whatever you want to call it) and can't be put in the same category as a bad implemented feature 

Think we agree on PvE lobbies then. You see PvP as a problem for griefing, I do not. You can kill griefers and band together to protect yourself and take revenge, make them pay for their grief. This is part of the justice on a PvP server, but passive mode destroys that and they can grief go passive and grief. If I want to avoid it I have to be passive. Thus the whole concept of an open PvP environment is ruined. PvP and passive mode do not mix, but there is no problem having a PvE server where you can flag yourself for PvP (which is exact the same as having passive mode), because that will not ruin the core experience of playing in a PvE lobby.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Gallows

[Lonely-Martin]

2 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Think we agree on PvE lobbies then. You see PvP as a problem for griefing, I do not. You can kill griefers and band together to protect yourself and take revenge, make them pay for their grief. This is part of the justice on a PvP server, but passive mode destroys that and they can grief go passive and grief. If I want to avoid it I have to be passive. Thus the whole concept of an open PvP environment is ruined. PvP and passive mode do not mix, but there is no problem having a PvE server where you can flag yourself for PvP (which is exact the same as having passive mode), because that will not ruin the core experience of playing in a PvE lobby.

Breaks immersion to see folk fight in a PvE server though. And if a player has a cool down on them to not flip passive on and off, it could be less toxic too. I'm with you... 

 

For now. It's all on R* to sharply get their finger out now.

[kenmy13999]

9 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Think we agree on PvE lobbies then. You see PvP as a problem for griefing, I do not. You can kill griefers and band together to protect yourself and take revenge, make them pay for their grief. This is part of the justice on a PvP server, but passive mode destroys that and they can grief go passive and grief. If I want to avoid it I have to be passive. Thus the whole concept of an open PvP environment is ruined. PvP and passive mode do not mix, but there is no problem having a PvE server where you can flag yourself for PvP (which is exact the same as having passive mode), because that will not ruin the core experience of playing in a PvE lobby.

I don't see pvp as a problem for griefing, people are the problem, just as those people that exploit passive mode is the problem there.. 

And if we got separate pve and pvp servers there wouldn't be any need for passive mode. Don't think I ever said I wanted passive to be implemented either? 

 

Only game I've played with passive mode is gtao and if you got killed by someone following you around in passive and then popping out, you actually deserved it imo

[Gallows]

23 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Breaks immersion to see folk fight in a PvE server though. And if a player has a cool down on them to not flip passive on and off, it could be less toxic too. I'm with you... 

 

For now. It's all on R* to sharply get their finger out now.

Immersion? The game is in the Wild West. How can that break immersion. There was no thing called the Wild PvE West in real life, that you can immerse yourself in. It is 100% problem free for you as an individual player. On a PvP server however passive mode is not, because it breaks the fundamental rule that you can attack people. On a PvE server you decide if you want to break the rule and allow people to attack you, which does not ruin the PvE experience, because you can never force others to attack you. On a PvP server however other people can limit your ability to attack them. It’s two very different situations.

 

As for your point about immersion, the same would be true on a PvP server with passive mode, although I think it’s way more immersive breaking not to be able to attack people who annoy you, than to be able to.

 

Anyway, I think most people will enjoy a PvE/PvP lobby split, the two of us included.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Gallows

[Lonely-Martin]

2 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Immersion? The game is in the Wild West. How can that break immersion. There was no thing called the Wild PvE West in real life, that you can immerse yourself in. It is 100% problem free for you as an individual player. On a PvP server however passive mode is not, because it breaks the fundamental rule that you can attack people. On a PvE server you decide if you want to break the rule and allow people to attack you, which does not ruin the PvE experience, because you can never force others to attack you. On a PvP server however other people can limit your ability to attack them. It’s two very different situations.

 

As for your point about immersion, the same would be true on a PvP server with passive mode, although I think it’s way more immersive breaking not to be able to attack people who annoy you, than to be able to.

 

Anyway, I think most people will enjoy a PvE/PvP lobby split, the two of us included.

No it ain't problem free, lol. It's a videogame of me/friends against the world. PvE. And as I explained, through personal difficulty, I'm simply not interested in PvP. How you missed so much in one post is beyond me dude, lol.

 

Yes, it breaks my immersion, of course it does. 

[Gallows]

10 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

No it ain't problem free, lol. It's a videogame of me/friends against the world. PvE. And as I explained, through personal difficulty, I'm simply not interested in PvP. How you missed so much in one post is beyond me dude, lol.

 

Yes, it breaks my immersion, of course it does. 

I don’t understand what it is you immerse yourself in that is broken? Immersion is about creating a believable world, scene and environment. Anyway it’s an irrelevant detail.

 

From a more objective point of view I hope you can see that someone enabling themself for PvP on a PvE server does not influence your gameplay and expectancy of your personal experience of playing on a PvE server.

 

Same isn’t true for passive mode on a PvP server. There it directly influence your gameplay and experience of playing on a PvP servers. Even though I may find it odd it no one killed each other on a PvP server it would not change my options as long as I can attack anyone.

 

The fundamental difference from a players perspective:

- PvP means you can attack others. Changes with passive mode.

- PvE means no one can attack you. Does not change with voluntary PvP flagging.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Gallows

[Lonely-Martin]

6 minutes ago, Gallows said:

I don’t understand what it is you immerse yourself in that is broken? Immersion is about creating a believable world, scene and environment. Anyway it’s irrelevant details.

 

From a more objective point of view I hope you can see that someone enabling themself for PvP on a PvE server does not influence your gameplay and expectancy of your personal experience of playing on a PvE server.

 

Same isn’t true for passive mode on a PvP server. There it directly influence your gameplay and experience of playing on a PvE servers. Even though I may find it odd it no one killed each other on a PvP server it would not change my options as long as I can attack anyone.

 

The fundamental difference from a players perspective:

- PvP means you can attack others. Changes with passive mode.

- PvE means no one can attack you. Does not change with voluntary PvP flagging.

I want pure PvE, R* added some, so clearly it's a part of the game and appeals that way. People killing is not PvE, therefore, unwelcome in my/my friends world. 

 

Very simple to understand dude. I can't and don't want PvP unless I join servers or jobs with it. That easy. If invite only came instead, with my lobby and those welcome, the rules will be set, or they can puss off and join other sessions.

 

What's to not understand, other than deliberately ignoring past conversations to push 'try it' on me, one who won't, lol.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Lonely-Martin
Spelling.

[Gallows]

4 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

I want pure PvE, R* added some, so clearly it's a part of my the game and appeals that way. People killing is not PvE, therefore, unwelcome in my/my friends world. 

 

Very simple to understand dude. I can't and don't want PvP unless I join servers or jobs with it. That easy. If invite only came instead, with my lobby and those welcome, the rules will be set, or they can puss off and join other sessions.

 

What's to not understand, other than deliberately 8gnoring past conversations to push 'try it' on me, one who won't, lol.

So you don’t understand the difference of gameplay impact of putting passive mode on a PvP server versus putting PvP flagging on a PvE server? One directly influences your gameplay and the other is only you seeing others engaging in something, but does not change your experience other than that.

 

I understand you - you want pure PvE. I want pure PvP and passive Has even less of a place there than voluntary PvP flagging on a PvE server has.

 

A PvP server with passive is effectively a PvE server with voluntary flagging. So passive mode means no PvP server at all.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Gallows

[Lonely-Martin]

Just now, Gallows said:

So you don’t understand the difference of gameplay impact of putting passive mode on a PvP server versus putting PvP flagging on a PvE server? One directly influences your gameplay and the other is only you seeing others engaging in something, but does not change your experience other than that.

 

I understand you - you want pure PvE. I want pure PvP and passive Has even less of a place there than voluntary PvP flagging on a PvE server has.

Christ you are obtuce. I already agreed with what you want. I don't want passive. But it is the plan B if no peaceful/invite servers come.

 

It's the lesser of two evils as I want my game of it. If R* refuse lobbies, other than quit or play how I don't want, there is no alternative I see.

 

Already said I agree with you and what we both want.

[Fugitive21]

Sorry but as others have stated isnt PVE lobby just storymode?

[HockeyMike24]

1 minute ago, Fugitive21 said:

Sorry but as others have stated isnt PVE lobby just storymode?

No, it's more of a cooperative mode. Working with others rather then against

[Lonely-Martin]

1 minute ago, Fugitive21 said:

Sorry but as others have stated isnt PVE lobby just storymode?

Nope. Red Dead Online. As R* said, an game for players to enjoy alone or together. And as they offer PvE, PvE players want in.

[Gallows]

6 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Christ you are obtuce. I already agreed with what you want. I don't want passive. But it is the plan B if no peaceful/invite servers come.

 

It's the lesser of two evils as I want my game of it. If R* refuse lobbies, other than quit or play how I don't want, there is no alternative I see.

 

Already said I agree with you and what we both want.

Yeah I know. We agree on that. I’d rather see grief than passive though. Lets just leave it there and work towards the common goal through feedback. I’m just affraid if people push for passive mode, they take the easy route, which would suck.

[Lonely-Martin]

7 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Yeah I know. We agree on that. I’d rather see grief than passive though. Lets just leave it there and work towards the common goal through feedback. I’m just affraid if people push for passive mode, they take the easy route, which would suck.

Agreed, but it's all on R* dude. If PvE isn't to be played, they shouldn't add it. But Yeah, we want the same thing in the first place.

[Gallows]

Just now, Lonely-Martin said:

Agreed, but it's all on R* dude. If PvE isn't to be played, they shouldn't add it. But Yeah, we want the same thing in the first place.

I’ve sent more feedback to R* about this including a wish for an announcement. I don’t want to waste my time with this game if they never intend to introduce freeaim lobbies and PvE lobbies are just as important for other people in the long run.

[Lonely-Martin]

4 minutes ago, Gallows said:

I’ve sent more feedback to R* about this including a wish for an announcement. I don’t want to waste my time with this game if they never intend to introduce freeaim lobbies and PvE lobbies are just as important for other people in the long run.

I share every word, unfortunately.

 

(And regardless of our opinions and preference, I respect your points and these conversations dude. Made good reading/learning. Thanks).