[DISCUSSION] GTA Online AI coding: Intentional or Laziness? (or both?)

[Pankypops]

GTA Online has all the 'lazy AI' tropes that I've managed to notice so far from various games.

The question is whether they intentionally programmed it that way to make earning money harder (and infuriate players to the point they buy a Shark card out of frustration and lack of money) or just laziness on the developer's part?
 

Here's a list of all that I've noticed:
 

- Rubberbanding cop/chase vehicles: Doesn't matter which hypercar you drive, they automatically get a speed boost in their sh*tty cruisers and proceed to ram you in the back. There's even a video that shows how your tires automatically snap to the side and make you lose control, hence a 'PIT' (false one).

 

 

 

- Aimbot: Need I say much? They can pretty much shoot you with godlike accuracy, even while blindfiring. The only way you're safe is if there's a solid object between you and the AI. There's no bullet spread on the AI's weaponry.
 

- X-Ray Vision/Hypersense: Again, need to say much? They automatically know your location even if you're a long distance away, shooting with a silenced sniper. Cops, especially, directly rush to your location during the evading phase.
 

- Broken spawns: They always spawn in close proximity to you, even worse when it's the helis. This is pretty obvious in Survivals, where their spawn location is determined on which direction your camera is facing (they spawn where you're not pointing your camera at). So they might as well spawn behind you and shred you to bits before they even fully materialize.

 

 

 

- Bullet sponges: Big problem. Several NPCs can tank headshots from Heavy Snipers, especially the ones in the recent CEO/supply missions. If not going for headshots, then it takes 1-2 magazines to kill one guy.
 

- Hive-mind: The AI act as one hive-mind instead of individual beings. Another reason why stealth is pretty much useless in the Online portion unless the missions are hardcoded (ex. Humane Raid - Deliver EMP). You kill one guy or simply alert him, then the guys even at the edge of the area you're attacking know your location instantly.
 

- Ignoring weapon limitations: Ever snipe AI in any mission, and they managed to return fire accurately at long range with their PISTOLS? Yeah, they ignore gun limitations. Sometimes, they fire their carbines at a minigun rate of fire. Their pistols and SMGs can do more damage to you than what your carbine does to them.

 

This one counts under aimbot as well.

 

- Ignoring weaponized vehicle restrictions: Another obvious thing especially in heists involving AI in Buzzards. Or just provoke an AI jet to spawn at Zancudo. You'll notice them firing their cannons omnidirectionally. Another great example is the Valkyrie where the side minigun has a limited window in which you can aim in. AI in Valkyries in that very position can shoot you 90* downwards or upwards, which isn't possible by player control. Or just notice the enemies in the Buzzards during survivals and how they can shoot at you vertically downwards when a player sitting in that same position has a small window in which he can properly aim in.
 

- Traffic intentionally screwing/obstructing you: Very obvious to see during Import/Export collections or deliveries. The NPC traffic will intentionally try to ram you to increase the damage repair cost of your vehicle. Sometimes even in freemode, they go out of their way to run you over and kill you.

 

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If I missed any then please feel free to contribute. I'll keep this post updated so this discussion can carry on. Will post links to videos, images or gifs for each of the pointers when available.

And since this is labelled as a discussion, treat it as such without any trolling/flaming.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Pankypops

[Aghakhi]

Pretty sure it's intentional, I mean the game is at some things coded like sh*t since always. For every improvement there seems to be a step back somewhere when it's about Online. The AI in this game is very lame in the way of how ridiculously OP it is, but that works for making every business activity even more hard and time consuming than they already are. It's literally as if that and the immense danger posed by other players aren't enough, in fact my only lost bunker sale was because of a hellish combo of a skilled tryhard in a Opressor Mk. II with aimbots spawning in cars right before my eyes! While all I had was a Dune FAV and very little time to think or even react. Now I can't even trust low populated lobbies, which used to be a sign of relative safety for me. Good lesson though, never sell outside solo public or friend lobbies. Stupid Aghakhi!

 

f*cking piece of sh*t, stupid disgraceful junk of a system, my blood boils when I think about that. Talk about unfairness, I pity those who can't or don't know how to get solo-public lobbies and pay for that with their effort and time put into the game being lost for nothing. The whole game is rigged against the player at times. Only the truly determinated and the cheaters\exploiters can thrive.

[Lonely-Martin]

Intentionally lazy.

 

Play DDH. Right there.

[hugh750]

today i had this npc driver do  this to me while i was sourcing a car.

 

stupid npc driver

Edited December 5, 2018 by hugh750

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

1 hour ago, Aghakhi said:

The AI in this game is very lame in the way of how ridiculously OP it is, but that works for making every business activity even more hard and time consuming than they already are. It's literally as if that and the immense danger posed by other players aren't enough, in fact my only lost bunker sale was because of a hellish combo of a skilled tryhard in a Opressor Mk. II with aimbots spawning in cars right before my eyes! While all I had was a Dune FAV and very little time to think or even react.

Ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!

 

This is why the AI is pants on head overpowered, like, what other purpose would have to have such kind of NPCs in a PvP scenario?

 

If other players are supposed to be our greatest menace, then why add broken, overpowered, inmersion breaking NPCs to the mix?

 

For a comparison, have you seen how NPCs in Business Battles are actually fair and fun to fight against? Guess what, that's how they should be! Big Molio once said that NPCs are just meant to be set pieces in what's meant to be a PvP scenario (you know, the whole risk vs reward yadda yadda), then NPCs should act as such!

 

NPCs should only be hard (and reasonably hard, not The Doomsday Scenario kind of hard) only in PvE scenarios like Contact Missions and Heists.

[Pankypops]

2 minutes ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

NPCs in Business Battles are actually fair and fun to fight against? Guess what, that's how they should be! Big Molio once said that NPCs are just meant to be set pieces in what's meant to be a PvP scenario (you know, the whole risk vs reward yadda yadda), then NPCs should act as such!

Wow, I totally forgot about the Business Battles, the AI was actually well balanced in that case.
But to be fair, I stopped participating in those battles after a month or so from AH's release.

 

3 minutes ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

NPCs should only be hard (and reasonably hard, not The Doomsday Scenario kind of hard) only in PvE scenarios like Contact Missions and Heists.

DDH felt more like glorified contact missions that somehow loosely connected with an over the top scenario instead of actually meticulously planned heists. Most of the setups didn't even factor into the finales.
Then there's the overpowered AI and the lack of heavy utility vest (or player saved choose-able outfits).

TBH, the enemies in the original heists were fairly balanced, couple with the fact that the utility vests actually worked.

[Sleepwalking]

I actually like rubberbanding trick. Back in GTA IV cops were too easy too lose. At least this adds a little bit challenge. 

 

 

[Veleno]

Intentional. saw a couple with pistols shooting like its a minigun.

[Pankypops]

1 hour ago, Sleepwalking said:

I actually like rubberbanding trick. Back in GTA IV cops were too easy too lose. At least this adds a little bit challenge. 

 

 

Or, they could give the cops highway patrol cars modified for high speed pursuits (Super/Hyper cars as cruisers). Having Ford Crown Vics and Interceptors getting sudden turbo boosts + making your wheels clip to the side is not only cheap programming but also breaks immersion.

I'm all for a challenge and difficulty, just not cheaply/lazily implemented ones.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Pankypops

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

34 minutes ago, Pankypops said:

Or, they could give the cops highway patrol cars modified for high speed pursuits (Super/Hyper cars as cruisers). Having Ford Crown Vics and Interceptors getting sudden turbo boosts + making your wheels clip to the side is not only cheap programming but also breaks immersion.

R* doesn't even need to add more police vehicles (altough that would be cool), they could just add the Police Buffalo and the Police Bike in the wanted system instead.

[DarkReign27]

It's working as intened it's either orchestrated or mistakes they probably like how we can't confirm 1000 percent on every little thing that seems wacked but when ya played it long enough you realize what they're doing and why they're doing it. Either way it's us players who get frustrated while the company rakes it in. They may be pulling back on Red Dead 2 but don't think they're going to change it for us they're testing what they can get away with how far they can push the players. It was never in our favour once they tasted this online mobile phone immitation market... T2 tainted this company like Activision did Blizzard/Bungie but it's always the way this ends up when yer bought up.

Edited December 5, 2018 by DarkReign27

[Man With No Name]

It's intentional - they "beefed up" the AI during their fight to stop people from farming missions. You know, Contract missions. Then they nerfed payments, but refused to revert the AI back to compensate. So yeah, totally lazy.

[Aghakhi]

7 hours ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

For a comparison, have you seen how NPCs in Business Battles are actually fair and fun to fight against? Guess what, that's how they should be! Big Molio once said that NPCs are just meant to be set pieces in what's meant to be a PvP scenario (you know, the whole risk vs reward yadda yadda), then NPCs should act as such!

I've only did Business Battles once, for some reason my technicians glitched after I delivered the goods and stopped accruing. Had to spend quite a long time having to check out whenever one of them stopped working again and switch technicians when it happened, so that experience drove me away from it  I can't forget, however, how the NPCs which spawned were easier to handle compared to what I have to face in I/E missions and Bunker sales. They for once weren't a huge, unreasonable threat, and it was quite refreshing to be able to focus on the map for approaching players instead of preparing myself to either avoid or kill NPCs as soon as they spawned

 

DDH has some pretty ridiculous moments in AI difficulty, but the whole idea of DDH is pretty ridiculous anyway. Me and a friend of mine used to do the Act III as a main money maker, and after completing it a few times we were able to finish it on hard just in time to get the elite challenge bonus. I'd say that the only truly troublesome parts are around the first half, where the overpowered nature of the AI really shows up. After you pass from that hacking part of the finale it's pretty easy to finish the mission. Lag is our biggest enemy in DDH though, when combined with the OP enemies it makes for some pretty infuriating moments like being shot dead in half a second from behind a wall! 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Aghakhi

[Sanches]

My theories about sh1tty AI include Rockstar using some kind of psychology to make people donate. But it's all tin foil hat things. Easier to say that Rockstar don't want/can't support a game for that long.
 

I can deal with dead eye AI (it's easy when you play this game once per month), but i miss GTA IV police mechanics so much, i can't stand GTA V police spawning around me.

[Geisterfaust]

OP, I praise your effort, but the video you've posted and the topic itself is so old, there's actually a forum topic about it!

 

[Pankypops]

40 minutes ago, hei3enberg said:

OP, I praise your effort, but the video you've posted and the topic itself is so old, there's actually a forum topic about it!

 

It still happens though, even in the enhanced edition of the game. It's slightly harder to notice because of the amount of new hypercars in the game. But it still happens if you use the base game's cars (Adder, Entity .etc.).

[RyuNova]

I have seen the Police AI's bullet come out sideways from their guns and hit me. Shot a SWAT guy in the leg so he ragdolled just at the same time he was firing and his bullets magically came out the end of his gun that was pointing at the ceiling towards me. I could tell from the smoke trails. 

[kcole4001]

Definitely intentional, however their motives can only be assumed.

 

The worst cases I've witnessed in GTAO:

 

when taking a car for Simeon to export (yes, I still do those when it's convenient!) one of the brown Suburbans which has crossed traffic a half block ahead of me U turns and speeds up right into the side of the vehicle, causing me to lose money

 

when free aiming rockets from a helo at cars driving down the freeway (good practice!) I've seen AI cars slide sideways over 4 lanes to avoid being hit

 

police being able to shoot through glass doors while the player can't

 

NPCs being able to blind fire and headshot you when they just stick an arm and a pistol above an obstacle and you're in 80% hard cover (cover apparently means nothing in this game)

also impossible shots while at high speed/insane maneuvers (headshot the player in an armored vehicle while one or both vehicles are in mid air for example)

 

police and others (cartel cars in the single insurgent bunker sale) can ram you and cause you to lose control even though you are driving a heavier, faster vehicle (you can compensate when you get used to it and counter-steer)

 

In other words, the game cheats (devs call it increasing difficulty, but it's really the AI suspending normal physics rules).

Many games do, and it is usually a function of laziness, but could well be intended, as already noted, to increase player frustration.

 

There are many subtle indications in the game that this is what R* intended all along. (in game internet cursor giving you the finger)

 

And then there's the almost complete disregard for bug fixing if the bug is unrelated to sourcing game money.

The best you'll get is possibly a workaround, though often nothing.

 

It has been a short term success (loads more profits) but may well bite them in the ass in the long term. (if you piss on your customers long enough, they'll eventually just go away for good)

I'm sure they find it amusing, but it's the responsibility of the end consumer to vote with their dollars.

They make record profits yet still cheap out in game design shortcuts or obviously leave stuff out.

 

It's easy enough to shrug off, but eventually it all adds up, and the worst thing is the wasted potential (oh, sure we'll see it in the next game...yeah, right).

 

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2 minutes ago, RyuNova said:

I have seen the Police AI's bullet come out sideways from their guns and hit me. Shot a SWAT guy in the leg so he ragdolled just at the same time he was firing and his bullets magically came out the end of his gun that was pointing at the ceiling towards me. I could tell from the smoke trails. 

I particularly enjoy when they're already dead and their gun goes off and damages you as you walk up to collect the dropped money/ammo.

Edited December 5, 2018 by kcole4001

[Pankypops]

Here is something that literally happened 5 minutes ago. Gotta love how a meth addled bald biker takes two shots to the head and survives.

 

And here's something I found over YouTube, confirming "- Ignoring weaponized vehicle restrictions:"

 

[Geisterfaust]

4 hours ago, Pankypops said:

It still happens though, even in the enhanced edition of the game. It's slightly harder to notice because of the amount of new hypercars in the game. But it still happens if you use the base game's cars (Adder, Entity .etc.).

Believe me, I know that it still happens and that topic is so full of it, I just don't think I can contribute here. Short version: the AI is primitive. 

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

4 hours ago, Pankypops said:

Here is something that literally happened 5 minutes ago. Gotta love how a meth addled bald biker takes two shots to the head and survives.

 

Meth, not even once.