The economy is not broken...!

[kenmy13999]

6 minutes ago, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

Yes. Maybe you should read what I said again. 

 

You're not going to earn $100 an hour now easily so that aspect of your argument is pretty much null and void.

That was just an example.. 

 

Maybe you should read what you wrote again or try and make it a little easier to understand what you're thinking?  Give some example of what you're trying to say? 

[Gallows]

10 minutes ago, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

Yeah so $35 dollars back then would be the same as 1000 now. Why is that so hard to understand? The problem isn't the price. The problem is the 'wages'. Gaming isn't a full time job so your logic doesn't work here. Right now you can easily earn 30 dollars an hour.. Imagine earning that in real life. You'd be earning over 62000 a year so I don't think buying a 1000 dollar pistol even back then would be a problem. Except that it's still only $35 so you could buy 1777 of them if you wanted to.

What? You can earn about $150 per ingame day easily. You confuse real time hours with ingame hours. That is working 24 hours without sleep.

 

How does the fact that $35 back then is $1000 today have to do with anything?

 

I don’t care about the prices. They are wrong for the period and that’s a fact.

 

Wages are also too High for the period, as you would never earn $150 a day hunting.

 

Compare prices to cost. You can earn enough money to buy a scofield in three ingame days - that’s actually generous.

 

I really have no idea what you’re trying to communicate. You talk about gaming not being a full time job. What? What does gaming have to do with prices/wage comparison between 1898 and today?

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Gallows

[The Notorious MOB]

2 hours ago, kenmy13999 said:

That was just an example.. 

 

Maybe you should read what you wrote again or try and make it a little easier to understand what you're thinking?  Give some example of what you're trying to say? 

Say they increased the payouts by ten and we assume the average pay out for a job is $3 now. That becomes $30 dollars. $100 would come pretty easy so if the gun prices were halfed then the pistol would be obtainable in 5 hours or less if you started off post patch with nothing at the required rank. If I've been grinding since day one it's safe to assume I definitely have that $500 already or I already have the pistol in my inventory after paying the full price. I'm a moderate player (rank 17) and I've already earned enough so if somebody plays twice as much as me they could buy the gun and 1000 worth of other goods. Ive bought other stuff obviously but I still have $400 now. If I didn't though I'd have enough for the Mauser. Imagine how pissed off I'd be after working fairly hard if they halved the prices tomorrow after working hard to get it lol

 

And to the guy above me.. holy christ. Think about what you're saying. Imagine the gun was actually $35 in game hahaha

Edited December 5, 2018 by Money Over Bullshit

[Gallows]

11 minutes ago, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

Say they increased the payouts by ten and we assume the average pay out for a job is $3 now. That becomes $30 dollars. $100 would come pretty easy so if the gun prices were halfed then the pistol would be obtainable in 5 hours or less if you started off post patch with nothing at the required rank. If I've been grinding since day one it's safe to assume I definitely have that $500 already or I already have the pistol in my inventory after paying the full price. I'm a moderate player (rank 17) and Ive already earned enough so if somebody plays twice as much as me could buy the gun and 1000 worth of other goods. Ive bought other stuff obviously but I still have $4₩0 now. If I didn't though I'd have enough for the Mauser. Imagine how pissed off I'd be after working fairly hard if they halved the prices tomorrow after working hard to get it lol

 

And to the guy above me.. holy christ. Think about what you're saying. Imagine the gun was actually $35 in game hahaha

You are either trolling or something else entirely

 

I am not saying the gun should be $35 in the game? What is wrong with you? Do you not read posts or do you not understand them?

[kenmy13999]

1 minute ago, Gallows said:

You are either trolling or something else entirely

 

I am not saying the gun should be $35 in the game? What is wrong with you? Do you not read posts or do you not understand them?

My thoughts also..

[The Notorious MOB]

1 minute ago, Gallows said:

You are either trolling or something else entirely

 

I am not saying the gun should be $35 in the game? What is wrong with you? Do you not read posts or do you not understand them?

Then what are you saying exactly? The prices are adjusted for inflation so that they seem as obtainable to somebody today playing the game as they did to someone living and working in that era. Why don't you use your brain instead of mindlessly arguing something.

[Gallows]

13 minutes ago, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

Then what are you saying exactly? The prices are adjusted for inflation so that they seem as obtainable to somebody today playing the game as they did to someone living and working in that era. Why don't you use your brain instead of mindlessly arguing something.

What? So you’re saying the game is attempting to use the value of the dollar in 2018? If so that’s fine, but your first post still made no sense at all.

 

I said the prices do not matter, but that the real price of the gun back then is a fact. If they wanted to use the real 1898 prices, they would just have to set the payout accordingly.

 

You also confused real time hours with ingame hours. Ingame you can make $150 a day, which is about an hour of gaming.

 

If you’re trying to say that prices should be comparable in a way that if you game for an hour it feels like working for an hour in relation to your ability to purchase stuff, then I get what you’re trying to say. You just worded it like a jigsaw puzzle with missing pieces and pieces from an entirely different puzzle thrown in.

 

All that matters is earnings vs prices. That is what we discuss. Everything can be scaled towards realistic prices or not, but the balance between earnings and prices is the only thing relevant to gameplay. I’d prefer if they used real prices and set the earnings relative to that, but I assume they figures players would whine only earning so little per ingame day.

 

Just for comparison - the average Weekly wage around 1898 was $16, meaning it would take three weeks to buy a $35 mauser, if you did not have a lot of expenses.

 

 

As for thinking - I don’t even know where to begin helping you

Edited December 5, 2018 by Gallows

[The Notorious MOB]

9 minutes ago, Gallows said:

What? So you’re saying the game is attempting to use the value of the dollar in 2018? If so that’s fine, but your first post still made no sense at all.

 

I said the prices do not matter, but that the real price of the gun back then is a fact. If they wanted to use the real 1898 prices, they would just have to set the payout accordingly.

 

You also confused real time hours with ingame hours. Ingame you can make $150 a day, which is about an hour of gaming.

 

If you’re trying to say that prices should be comparable in a way that if you game for an hour it feels like working for an hour in relation to your ability to purchase stuff, then I get what you’re trying to say. You just worded it like a jigsaw puzzle with missing pieces and pieces from an entirely different puzzle thrown in.

 

All that matters is earnings vs prices. That is what we discuss. Everything can be scaled towards realistic prices or not, but the balance between earnings and prices is the only thing relevant to gameplay. I’d prefer if they used real prices and set the earnings relative to that, but I assume they figures players would whine only earning so little per ingame day.

 

As for thinking - I don’t even know where to begin helping you

First of all you were the one who brought real life wages into it. Secondly how in the hell are you earning $150 dollars an hour naturally??? 

 

I'm definitely not saying an hour in game should be an hour in real time.. that would be absolutely rediculous. In fact it's the complete opposite to what I'm saying. If that were the case your $150 dollar an hour method would give you $3600 per in game day. Imagine how much of a sh*t show the game would be then. Are you actually just saying random sh*t now in an attempt to get me to stoop to the level of having some kind of flame war with you or do you actually believe what you're saying makes sense??

Edited December 5, 2018 by Money Over Bullshit

[Gallows]

1 minute ago, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

First of all you were the one who brought real life wages into it. Secondly how in the hell are you earning $150 dollars an hour naturally??? 

 

I'm definitely not saying an hour in game should be an hour in real time.. that would be absolutely rediculous. In fact it's the complete opposite to what I'm saying. If that were the case your $150 dollar an hour method would give you $3600 per in game day. Imagine how much of a sh*t show the game would be then. Are you actually just saying random sh*t now in an attempt to get me to stoop to the level of having some kind of flame war with you or do you actually believe what you're saying makes sense??

Yes I earn about $150 Per real time hour hunting. Compare that to the prices and it’s fine really. Missions and other activities pay very badly though. 

[The Notorious MOB]

8 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Yes I earn about $150 Per real time hour hunting. Compare that to the prices and it’s fine really. Missions and other activities pay very badly though. 

Yeah so it's basically no problem for you because you engage in repetitive grinding. Which is cool but not everybody has the time and patience to do that. They really just need to balance the game for everybody to a point where it can be challenging yet rewarding. Nobody should need to slog away for hours in order to be able to afford things but if you want to buy everything and have the time to put into that then you should be able to do that too. The way it is at the minute isn't good for anyone but reducing the price of weapons which you can use to dominate other people, especially those who are only starting out definitely isn't the way to go. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Money Over Bullshit

[Gallows]

3 minutes ago, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

Yeah so it's basically no problem for you because you engage in repetitive grinding. Which is cool but not everybody has the time and patience to do that. They really just need to balance the game for everybody to a point where it can be challenging yet rewarding. Nobody should need to slog away for hours in order to be able to afford things but if you want to buy everything and have the time to put into that then you should be able to do that too. The way it is at the minute isn't good for anyone but reducing the price of weapons which you can use to dominate other people, especially those who are only starting out definitely isn't the way to go. 

Reducing prices or increasing earnings is the same end result.

 

Also hunting isn’t grinding for me.

 

I already said mission/series payout should be balanced to be just below hunting (since hunting gives only money and no exp or gold nuggets).

 

But it took me 2 hours of gameplay to buy my scofield. That’s fine to me. Had I played series, it would have taken me 6-8 hours. That is not fine.

[The Notorious MOB]

5 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Reducing prices or increasing earnings is the same end result.

 

Also hunting isn’t grinding for me.

 

I already said mission/series payout should be balanced to be just below hunting (since hunting gives only money and no exp or gold nuggets).

 

But it took me 2 hours of gameplay to buy my scofield. That’s fine to me. Had I played series, it would have taken me 6-8 hours. That is not fine.

Yeah man I'm in the same boat.. I enjoy hunting. I prefer doing jobs though which right now earn you absolute pittance. You should be able to earn around 100-150 an hour no matter what you're doing. That's what they need to be guided by. 

 

Basically anything that gives players an advantage should be priced high but the pay outs should be enough where you don't have to go without your desired clothing options in order to get onto a level playing field.

[Gallows]

5 minutes ago, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

Yeah man I'm in the same boat.. I enjoy hunting. I prefer doing jobs though which right now earn you absolute pittance. You should be able to earn around 100-150 an hour no matter what you're doing. That's what they need to be guided by. 

 

Basically anything that gives players an advantage should be priced high but the pay outs should be enough where you don't have to go without your desired clothing options in order to get onto a level playing field.

Agree with that

[L1337]

The fact that I am forced to hunt to make decent money makes it feel less like a fun activity and more like a chore that I HAVE to do  

As long as you can make a similar amount doing anything else, money making would be good IMO as you would be making decent money from everything combined, which, in turn means = variety = fun. The whole gold bar system needs big changes though, at least make us able to consistently make 1 gold bar per few hours so we can actually at least customize our weapons without paying real money. If the gold bars are still as hard to get and they dont add a way to buy all customization options with $ I probably wont keep playing in the long run

Edited December 5, 2018 by L1337
A word

[Jedster]

OP: The economy is not broken...!

 

I agree, it's working as intended by R*/TT, they trying to find out how much of a BS microtransactions are we willing to put up with. After the backlash they will tweak it a bit so they can say "oh, we are listening to community and this is why we had the beta..." as you can see in R* twitter post. No mention about invite only/PvE/ free aim servers, about greefing issues, about the fact that there is almost nothing to do except sh*ty PvP modes where you are forced to play random game modes.

TBH the economy is the least bothering of my issues with the game and it's the only one they addressed so far.

I think it's pretty clear where is the focus with RDO... 

[The Notorious MOB]

39 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Agree with that

The funny/ironic thing is that Gold is slightly underpriced yet believably rare. At the time (as per the gold standard) a troy ounce of gold was worth just over $20 so the value added on most items to bypass the level requirements is actually quite fair. Truth be told it's actually massively undervalued since I think the in game gold bars are considerably bigger than that. 

 

The flip side is that they stupidly made certain items gold buyable only which forces you to pay for gold out of your own pocket if you want to buy that item. Therefore all items should be available for cash and/or gold. If you want to pay to win then that's your prerogative but things shouldn't be locked because you don't have the real life money to buy them or refuse to give into the developers unscrupulous shake downs. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Money Over Bullshit

[Gallows]

13 minutes ago, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

The funny/ironic thing is that Gold is slightly underpriced yet believably rare. At the time (as per the gold standard) a troy ounce of gold was worth just over $20 so the value added on most items to bypass the level requirements is actually quite fair. Truth be told it's actually massively undervalued since I think the in game gold bars are considerably bigger than that. 

 

The flip side is that they stupidly made certain items gold buyable only which forces you to pay for gold out of your own pocket if you want to buy that item. Therefore all items should be available for cash and/or gold. If you want to pay to win then that's your prerogative but things shouldn't be locked because you don't have the real life money to buy them or refuse to give into the developers unscrupulous shake downs. 

Never going to happen. R* are in it for the money, which is the way the world works and without it, we would not see huge games as this. Their Challenge is to balance it to maximize profit without getting a backlash ending up making their profit less.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Gallows

[Cratoz]

15 hours ago, Callahan44 said:

Its a game,think about it. In gta you robbed hundreds of banks,own companies and bunkers and still cant afford the newest car. You think finding 1 platinum watch should solve all your food problem for the coming years in rd online?

 

People who counter the fact that a can of beans and worms are more worth than jewelry miss the point of why it is brought up in the first place.

I don't think anyone who wants that to be changed is asking for something as unreasonable as you propose in your post.

 

It not not necessarily about being realistic, too. It is about being authentic.

 

Nobody wants to get rich from gold watches in game. They want a more believable ratio. Either lower the price of beans etc. or make jewelry worth about 10$. They are not that common anyways.

 

 

Maybe change the price of both type of items. 2.50$ for a can of beans is way too expensive even from today's standards.

 

 

Authenticity is what people want. Something the single player did very well.

[The Notorious MOB]

13 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Never going to happen. R* are in it for the money, which is the way the world works and without it, we would not see huge games as this. Their Challenge is to balance it to maximize profit without getting a backlash ending up making their profit less.

With GTA Online they sold enough shark cards to be able to provide us all with a ton of quality(?) content for free. With this though they're forcing their profits without the possibility of many opportunities afforded by the framing of the game. No cars, limited weaponry, no aircraft to put in hangars etc. It all just makes their greed more and more infuriating yet completely predictable.

 

Another thing is though they're also forcing you to needlessly hand over money in game. We not only need to spend money to survive but also have to contend with upkeep fees for stables with no horses in them and camps that we can do without, provided we can actually find them before they move.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Money Over Bullshit

[Gallows]

Just now, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

With GTA Online they sold enough shark cards to be able to provide us all with a ton of quality(?) Content for free. With this though they're forcing their profits without the possibility of the opportunities afforded by the framing of the game. No cars, limited weaponry, no aircraft to put in hangars etc. It all just makes their greed more and more infuriating yet completely predictable.

Sure, but GTAO was not quality. Flying cars, attack aircraft etc. was some absolutely toxic crap.

 

I want this game to stay grounded in 1898. No stupid crap.

 

As long as they add freeaim lobbies and don’t release stupid crap, I’ll buy gold.

[The Notorious MOB]

7 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Sure, but GTAO was not quality. Flying cars, attack aircraft etc. was some absolutely toxic crap.

 

I want this game to stay grounded in 1898. No stupid crap.

 

As long as they add freeaim lobbies and don’t release stupid crap, I’ll buy gold.

To be completely honest with you I probably will myself but you're right.. if they don't fix the fundamentals then I also won't be around in the game long enough to do so. The system they had for extra content in the first game left the playerbase completely divided but at the same time making it so that everyone has to contend with the negative effects of other players lavish spending is an absolute pain in the backside.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Money Over Bullshit

[Tha-Jamz]

Just now, Gallows said:

Sure, but GTAO was not quality. Flying cars, attack aircraft etc. was some absolutely toxic crap.

 

I want this game to stay grounded in 1898. No stupid crap.

 

As long as they add freeaim lobbies and don’t release stupid crap, I’ll buy gold.

I feel ya, thats exactly what i want, no stupid crap this is not GTAV or Saint Row.

Gaming is 1 of my 2 hobby's and hobby's cost money, thats fine if i (can) really enjoy it, i am willing to invest in some gold if this game (my favorite game) stays real.

Then i wont mind to invest in my hobby.

[Gray-Hand]

Income per hour may or may not be right, but the activities which earn a lot and the activities which earn very little are totally out of whack.

I earnt $4.15 escorting a couple of wagons from Tumbleweed to Fort Mercer which required me to kill about 12 outlaws and thank f*ck no other players bothered to interfere.

After completing it, on the ride back from Mercer to the Tumbleweed butcher, and taking probably the same amount of time that the original journey took - I made more than twice as much money from shooting animals that I came across as I rode past.

 

That just is not how the game should be.

[Tha-Jamz]

1 hour ago, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

Yeah so it's basically no problem for you because you engage in repetitive grinding. Which is cool but not everybody has the time and patience to do that. They really just need to balance the game for everybody to a point where it can be challenging yet rewarding. Nobody should need to slog away for hours in order to be able to afford things but if you want to buy everything and have the time to put into that then you should be able to do that too. The way it is at the minute isn't good for anyone but reducing the price of weapons which you can use to dominate other people, especially those who are only starting out definitely isn't the way to go. 

Listen "visionary" , some people like grindy games and others (like you ?) that dont got the time for it dont..., but you should think about that before you buy a game thats kinda grindy.

Im not attacking you but lemme ask you this, would you buy a game like Destiny ? a very grindy game ?

It was to be expected that there would be some sort of a grind in the online version of RDR2 cause it was already kinda grindy in the SP. (and so is GTAV)

[The Notorious MOB]

25 minutes ago, Tha-Jamz said:

Listen "visionary" , some people like grindy games and others (like you ?) that dont got the time for it dont..., but you should think about that before you buy a game thats kinda grindy.

Im not attacking you but lemme ask you this, would you buy a game like Destiny ? a very grindy game ?

It was to be expected that there would be some sort of a grind in the online version of RDR2 cause it was already kinda grindy in the SP. (and so is GTAV)

You definitely are attacking me.. you passive aggressively quoting my member title makes that abundantly clear. Ignoring that though I'll answer your question.. no. I generally don't play many games but I always take the time to thoroughly explore every aspect of anything from Rockstar including both single player and online as I have always done over the years. I'm not looking down on anybody who enjoys grinding or puts the majority of their time into playing games for hours on end. It might sound a bit condescending I realise that but there really is no other way to say it since that's literally what some people are doing.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Money Over Bullshit

[Tha-Jamz]

Just now, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

You definitely are attacking me.. you're passive aggressive quoting of my member title makes that abundantly clear. Ignoring that though I'll answer your question.. no. I generally don't play many games but I always take the time to thoroughly explore every aspect of anything from Rockstar including both single player and online as I have always done over the years. I'm not looking down on anybody who enjoys grinding or puts the majority of their time into playing games for hours on end. It might sound a bit condescending I realise that but there really is no other way to say it since that's literally what some people are doing.

Its sad that you cant even take a joke, nevermind ill leave you to it.

[The Notorious MOB]

6 minutes ago, Tha-Jamz said:

Its sad that you cant even take a joke, nevermind ill leave you to it.

Haha of course I can but "Listen visionary" as an opener is a pretty obvious attack no matter how veiled in comedy it is. Maybe try a smiley or a laughy face next time since they're a little less ambiguous than the winky face. I mean that purely in jest of course

[Tha-Jamz]

Just now, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

Haha of course I can but "Listen visionary" as an opener is a pretty obvious attack no matter how veiled in comedy it is. Maybe try a smiley or a laughy face next time since they're a little less ambiguous than the winky face. I mean that purely in jest of course

It was not my intention to offend you in any way, cut me some slack pls, first of all this is not my native language and im about to start my 2nd youth (almost 50)

I dont get it anymore in this sjw era, i used the wrong smiley ? come on it was just ment as a lill joke.

[The Notorious MOB]

17 minutes ago, Tha-Jamz said:

It was not my intention to offend you in any way, cut me some slack pls, first of all this is not my native language and im about to start my 2nd youth (almost 50)

I dont get it anymore in this sjw era, i used the wrong smiley ? come on it was just ment as a lill joke.

I wasn't necessarily offended but telling me that I can't take a joke for taking exception to a remark, that regardless of intent, sounds extremely arrogant coming from somebody you don't know from Adam is pretty insulting. If it was a simple translation error or what have you then I suppose it's understandable but it always helps to be clear.

 

Either way my initial problem wasn't with the grindy nature of the game which indeed was to be expected. The problem is that the grind is disproportionate to the payoff. Those who like to grind endlessly, in order to own everything for example, should be able to do so before the next game comes out another 8 years from now (probably). But those who don't want to grind to afford basic items shouldn't have to either.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Money Over Bullshit

[Tha-Jamz]

Just now, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

I wasn't necessarily offended but telling me that I can't take a joke for taking exception to a remark, that regardless of intent, sounds extremely arrogant coming from somebody you don't know from Adam is pretty insulting. If it was a simple translation error or what have you then I suppose it's understandable but it always helps to be clear.

 

Either way my initial problem wasn't with the grindy nature of the game which indeed was to be expected. The problem is that the grind is disproportionate to the payoff. Those who like to grind endlessly, in order to own everything for example, should be able to do so before the next game comes out another 8 years from now (probably). But those who don't want to grind to afford basic items shouldn't have to either.

I agree with you that the balance is of, but lets hope *R balances this out this week like they said.

Lets just burry the hatched on the other part.