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Gallows

Aim lock, the toxicity catalyst

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afriendlyreddot
2 minutes ago, Rooni said:

I've had no choice but to convert to AA for RDO. No point in fighting fair when all the other guy has to do is hit left trigger and the game aims for him.

 

I'm just saying when I converted from AA to FA in GTA, I saw about a 60% decrease in griefing. I was able to use clothing stores and ammunations without getting shot.

When I did get shot, all I had to was spawn kill the guy 5 times before they backed off. No more of those hour long wars of 'who can hit left trigger faster and roll better?'

Like idk why there is so much resistance to the fact that free aim IS more peaceful and it takes actual effort and skill. 

I've been free aiming for years. 

 

Even when you do get the kids in the delexuos and oppressors all you gotta do is get them out of it. If you can kill them once,then you can spawn kill them all you want because they're trash on the ground. 

 

That's all I saying. I'm not heated and I'm not gonna get heated. Me and my coworkers been laughing at this. Lighten up fellas lol

man switch back to free-aim trust me, i know it's frustrating engaging in pvp with auto-aimers but my mindset is IF they give true free-aim lobbies we'll be well seasoned and dumping on the newbie free-aimers.

 

if they don't give us free-aim though i'll just be sad and play single player until something else catches my attention i suppose :(

Edited by afriendlyreddot

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GenericGTAO
32 minutes ago, afriendlyreddot said:

really not trying to be mean here but anyone that thinks auto-aim is less toxic than free-aim is on some level of hallucinogens that i have not heard of yet. did either aim type cause the toxicity, probably not, was there more toxicity in lobbies that allowed everyone to instantly lock on to you to the effect that you could head shot someone out of an armored insurgent like nothing, yes absolutely.

 

also, auto-aimers came into free-aim lobbies with their overpowered vehicles like the deluxo or oppressor, etc, that had insane lock on rockets and killed what was left of the decency. of course there were idiots that spammed rpg's at your feet or sniped with stickies at theirs, but most of us free-aimers battled in the streets with rifles.

 

i'm hoping that with the lack of op weapons in RDR2 and with the introduction of separate lobbies we can get back there but i'm sure someone will find a way to exploit the combat system as always.

Not making that argument, but even so thats not the same as auto aim being the cause of the toxicity.  Even if you accept it as a factor in the toxicity of GTAO which I would agree it is, its nominal, there are many more things that cause toxicity, with the type of players encouraged to play being number 1 suspect on my list.  This argument is similar to the gun control argument.  Is it the guns or the people with guns that are the problem?  I figured I would get some resistance, but overt insults and argumentation/logic form defenses were unexpected.

Edited by GenericGTAO

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Lonely-Martin
7 minutes ago, afriendlyreddot said:

yeah man i get where you're coming from and i appreciate your perspective because it offered insight i would not have come upon naturally. i joke a little and label auto-aimers as lazy or filthy casuals but i don't feel superior nor would i be happy if the whole game was free-aim and prevented people with physical or mental disabilities to enjoy the game. i just want separation so we can all enjoy this beautiful game world R* created the way we want to.

 

a few of my gaming buddies would never make the jump to my free-aim lobbies and i would feel bad forcing them to learn a whole new style of aiming so i'd jump in there's. after getting used to landing your shots yourself that initial snap on with auto-aim can be jarring af -__-

Fully agree. Many are truly just looking to be around like-minded and relish the challenges of it. Never opposed it myself it's when people go too far and are deliberately ignoring the reasons pur forth. In 2018, I find it out of place.

 

Gaming comes in many forms and even here we have a colourblinf setting so it's clear to me R* want yo appeal to as many styles or limits possible. That's the recipe for success IMHO.

 

Anyone true to PvP, no issue. Those seeking to use 'it's PvP' as an excuse for ignorance or bad form in games. Pass. (Though admittedly, I have clearly been 'triggered' by it all - Sorry).

11 minutes ago, Rooni said:

I've had no choice but to convert to AA for RDO. No point in fighting fair when all the other guy has to do is hit left trigger and the game aims for him.

And many are having your preferences forced on them. You can complain/request other, but others can't? Be reasonable.

 

12 minutes ago, Rooni said:

That's all I saying. I'm not heated and I'm not gonna get heated. Me and my coworkers been laughing at this. Lighten up fellas lol

But this part says all we need to know. You and your co-workers are looking to cause more trouble so you can laugh at others plight while forcing your way onto others.

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afriendlyreddot
2 minutes ago, GenericGTAO said:

Not making that argument, but even so thats not the same as auto aim being the cause of the toxicity.  Even if you accept it as a factor in the toxicity of GTAO which I would agree it is, its nominal, there are many more things that cause toxicity, with the type of players encouraged to play being number suspect on my list.  This argument is similar to the gun control argument.  Is it the guns or the people with guns that are the problem?  I figured I would get some resistance, but overt insults and argumentation/logic form defenses were unexpected.

listen i'm sarcastic by nature so again, not trying to be rude or even argue here which is confusing me as to why people are saying we're acting up in this thread. to me it looks like a conversation with multiple opinions slowly being explained, have not seen anyone get bent out of shape but whatever.

 

anyway i could have sworn you said something along the lines that free-aim players were tryhards that migrated from other FPS games with huge tryhards fanbases or that free-aim is more toxic than auto-aim. that simply is not the case, most of us free-aimers fled the auto-aim lobbies to get away from exactly the type of people you're speaking of and eventually those people came into free-aim with aim-assist and overpowered vehicles/weapons, killing everything including the vibe.

 

when you say things that people disagree with of course you'll get some push back i always thought that was the point about a forum, discussion.

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SAS_Intruder
7 hours ago, Gallows said:

No. Even if everyone is using aim lock, you’ll have the same issues. If lobbies were seperated you would still have the same issues on aim lock lobbies simply because of how easy it is to one shot people riding full speed or running for cover.

 

Sure griefer against griefer works just as well on both types of aiming. But griefer against peaceful player is so much worse on aim lock lobbies. The same is true for GTAO, so it’s nothing new.

Then, what am I supposed to do? Someone who has joint/wrist issues and I even couldn't use mouse on my PC without getting my hand sour just after 15 minutes. I simply can't operate controller in order to use free aim, so I shouldn't play Online?

 

Although I see your point and that is the reason I never start fights because I am aware that free aim makes it somewhat easier. But I still want to play the game with others and that is why we need separate lobbies as well as PVE. But to completely switch it to free aim wouldn'twork for many who suffer from different kind of conditions that limit our dexterity or mobility. 

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GenericGTAO
12 minutes ago, afriendlyreddot said:

listen i'm sarcastic by nature so again, not trying to be rude or even argue here which is confusing me as to why people are saying we're acting up in this thread. to me it looks like a conversation with multiple opinions slowly being explained, have not seen anyone get bent out of shape but whatever.

 

anyway i could have sworn you said something along the lines that free-aim players were tryhards that migrated from other FPS games with huge tryhards fanbases or that free-aim is more toxic than auto-aim. that simply is not the case, most of us free-aimers fled the auto-aim lobbies to get away from exactly the type of people you're speaking of and eventually those people came into free-aim with aim-assist and overpowered vehicles/weapons, killing everything including the vibe.

 

when you say things that people disagree with of course you'll get some push back i always thought that was the point about a forum, discussion.

I would say R* catered to people that play COD and Battfield, which I described as free aimers.  And I think thats primary cause of toxicity in GTAO.   As far as free aim v. auto aim in GTAO, you are very likely right, but I cannot say for sure because I pretty much alwayd played auto aim.  But by default, GTA is auto aim, and all I suggested in the beginning, RDO should be default auto aim.  I was a bit snide about it because the ops post was basically saying auto aim is the reason for toxicity with little evidence.  I wish R* didnt cater so much these FPS free aim gamers, but I understand why they do.

Edited by GenericGTAO

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afriendlyreddot

my guy there's all sorts of FPS games, i think you're thinking mostly about multiplayer FPS games specifically though like Call of Duty, Halo, etc, that do have a pretty cancerous following. but then there is FPS players like me and i suspect others here that come from games like Far Cry, Bioshock, Skyrim (bethesda's poor excuse for 3rd person does not count), etc, that were harmless before we came to GTAO.

 

 

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GenericGTAO
Just now, afriendlyreddot said:

my guy there's all sorts of FPS games, i think you're thinking mostly about multiplayer FPS games specifically though like Call of Duty, Halo, etc, that do have a pretty cancerous following. but then there is FPS players like me and i suspect others here that come from games like Far Cry, Bioshock, Skyrim (bethesda's poor excuse for 3rd person does not count), etc, that were harmless before we came to GTAO.

 

 

I hate to genralize but this what the op did.   I realize that the people on this forum are small segment of gaming who are generally likeable and reasonable.  And very little of what I said applies to people on here, we are different wave length when it comes to gaming especially R* games and definitely GTA.

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kenmy13999
1 hour ago, GenericGTAO said:

I would say R* catered to people that play COD and Battfield, which I described as free aimers.  And I think thats primary cause of toxicity in GTAO.   As far as free aim v. auto aim in GTAO, you are very likely right, but I cannot say for sure because I pretty much alwayd played auto aim.  But by default, GTA is auto aim, and all I suggested in the beginning, RDO should be default auto aim.  I was a bit snide about it because the ops post was basically saying auto aim is the reason for toxicity with little evidence.  I wish R* didnt cater so much these FPS free aim gamers, but I understand why they do.

What exactly is R* catering to the FPS free aim gamers? And why is that the primary reason for the toxicity? 

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The FoolYT

One of the dead eye cards disable lock on when in use for the player and people who try to lock on to the player. Unless they replace this dead eye card, it seems to suggest that they're intending on keeping it on lock on for the time being.

 

I really dislike this as considering you spawn like next to people all the time, anyone is viable to get one shot at any point.

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Lonely-Martin
36 minutes ago, kenmy13999 said:

What exactly is R* catering to the FPS free aim gamers? And why is that the primary reason for the toxicity? 

Really I find the causes to have many factors, but the common one is just many hate losing and with it this mixed, skill isn't as respected. There's always an excuse. If I was a free aim player, this game would drive me mad atm. (Almost is anyway mind, lol).

 

12 minutes ago, The FoolYT said:

One of the dead eye cards disable lock on when in use for the player and people who try to lock on to the player. Unless they replace this dead eye card, it seems to suggest that they're intending on keeping it on lock on for the time being.

 

I really dislike this as considering you spawn like next to people all the time, anyone is viable to get one shot at any point.

That's troubling. Blimey!

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wescolt

auto lock npc/animals... free aim players.

 

seems like a nice medium for a game like this

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GenericGTAO
2 hours ago, kenmy13999 said:

What exactly is R* catering to the FPS free aim gamers? And why is that the primary reason for the toxicity? 

First, first person combat in GTAO has a much greater advantage.  I suspect the same is true for RDO but maybe not.  Maybe someone else knows.  And when I say advantage, I mean its not even close.  3rd person is joke for PVP. I fought it well in 2015, but after I switched I was destroying people and this goes for NPC combat as well.  

 

Second, the control scheme options favor FPS over the default.  The default setup is at such a disadvantage compared to what COD players use.

 

Third, the addition of FPS in both RDR2 and GTA.  They were always 3rd person.  No big deal right, wrong...the people using it have a major advantage.  I mean it seems cool, but I honestly could do without it in both games.

 

Fourth, military updates over cars and crime.  Military updates are fine, but every single update, I mean there is no doubt its meant to cater to FPS mouth breather.

 

KD obession and alot of PVP exploits in GTAO came directly from FPS shooters.  Its clear R* had never made an FPS just by failng to considering the EWO.  The EWO and score counts from the FPS community changed GTAO into the glorious toxic mess that it has become in my opinion.  Luckily, most of the incentives too do such behavior are not present in RDO.  So it will hopefully be less toxic.

 

Edit: I can confirm, 1st person strafing will have a massive advantage over 3rd person in RDO.  I will have to test tonic, health, weapon switching.  I have already altered my controller setup to an FPS scheme because its way better and should be the default in R* new games, I dont know why they dont make it the default.  My guess they really do not want to make shooters but story based games.  

 

Edited by GenericGTAO

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Gallows
4 hours ago, GenericGTAO said:

Even if you accept it as a factor in the toxicity of GTAO which I would agree it is...

I think we agree enough to let it rest. The extent to which aim lock supports griefing is a detail we don’t have to agree on.

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Tha-Jamz
12 hours ago, Gallows said:

Aim lock is the main cause of peoples issues with griefers. With free aim you would not be able to “Aim, flick, BOOM HEADSHOT” people riding past you at full speed and you would not be able to do it riding through town full speed either.

 

Aim lock is the main reason for the toxic griefing some people experience in this game.

 

If the developers are to balance the freedom, PvP and all else related to free roam around aim lock, then it will suck.

No, not being able to start a private session is the main problem, RDR1 had it in online and in GTAV  you can start a private session as well, why not in RDR2 Online ?!! why ???

2 hours ago, GenericGTAO said:

First, first person combat in GTAO has a much greater advantage.  I suspect the same is true for RDO but maybe not.  Maybe someone else knows.  And when I say advantage, I mean its not even close.  3rd person is joke for PVP. I fought it well in 2015, but after I switched I was destroying people and this goes for NPC combat as well.  

 

Second, the control scheme options favor FPS over the default.  The default setup is at such a disadvantage compared to what COD players use.

 

Third, the addition of FPS in both RDR2 and GTA.  They were always 3rd person.  No big deal right, wrong...the people using it have a major advantage.  I mean it seems cool, but I honestly could do without it in both games.

 

Fourth, military updates over cars and crime.  Military updates are fine, but every single update, I mean there is no doubt its meant to cater to FPS mouth breather.

 

KD obession and alot of PVP exploits in GTAO came directly from FPS shooters.  Its clear R* had never made an FPS just by failng to considering the EWO.  The EWO and score counts from the FPS community changed GTAO into the glorious toxic mess that it has become in my opinion.  Luckily, most of the incentives too do such behavior are not present in RDO.  So it will hopefully be less toxic.

 

Edit: I can confirm, 1st person strafing will have a massive advantage over 3rd person in RDO.  I will have to test tonic, health, weapon switching.  I have already altered my controller setup to an FPS scheme because its way better and should be the default in R* new games, I dont know why they dont make it the default.  My guess they really do not want to make shooters but story based games.  

 

No thank you..., we dont need another fast paced COD FPS shooter, we need private sessions/servers.

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Tha-Jamz
10 hours ago, Gallows said:

Agree with this also, but the funny thing is my mate isn’t an ashole. He agrees with me on the principle that we never kill players in free roam who do not bother us or are a clear threath like City campers we witness killing other players.

 

But he clearly felt the aim lock forced his hand so to speak and we had a good laugh about the situation afterwards.

Hhahaha you made me laugh !

 

"Agree with this also, but the funny thing is my mate isn’t an ashole"   neh just acting like one... LOL !

 

Her B**BS forced my hand hahahaha ;)  No worry's im just kiddin here hahaha

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