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Gallows

Aim lock, the toxicity catalyst

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Gallows
17 minutes ago, kenmy13999 said:

Why is it so "dangerous" to die once? I mean, he could've given him the benefit of the doubt since he didn't have his guns out or didn't make any aggressive moves. 

Imo it's this kind of mindset that is contributing to why people shoot first and never asks.. 

 

Yesterday i was in a really friendly session for the first time since I loaded in to online the first time. Had some pelts I wanted to sell in Valentine, there was 6-7 people hanging around close to the butcher and they all could've shot me or each other at any time, yet no one did, if your friend was there it would have been total mayhem. In the same session I also passed people on horse and on foot and from probably 15-20 encounters it was one person that shot at me and he missed, so I killed him. After that he went the other way and didn't see him again 

It’s not dangerous dying once, but that’s not the point. No matter how you feel about dying, you can be more at ease with free aim, because you know it is much more unlike to be instantly killed. Knowing people have free aim and that they can go from passive to one shotting you in a split second will influence descisions for many players, including how much slack they give people and if they adopt a shoot first attitude or not.

 

It really is the same for GTA, so it’s not just guessing. GTA still has issues because of all the stupid BOOM sh*t in that game, but regardless free aim lobbies are very different. They will be even more different in RDO because of the weapon selection.

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CosmicBuffalo

Maybe when R* adds free aim lobbies, they will call it "skills based lobby" and you can sit back and feel superior to autoaimers and enjoy your game griefer free.

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XxJazzy42xX

I do think the lobbies should be separated just to put people on even ground skill wise. I prefer something in the middle between auto lock and free aim like soft lock. I just know I can't do free aim on rockstar games for me. When ubisoft dropped Watchdogs and I played the combat on it I could do free aim no problem.....different control scheme, but if you want to win in a rockstar game for free aim....don't pick me👎. My biggest problem is not griefers but crybaby players who get on the mic and say a weapon is OP and that people are (insert racial slur or other insult) when they use it, but was caught several matches ago with the same weapon. Basically the player that says its balanced when they use it and OP when others use it cause I'm losing. 

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Gallows
4 minutes ago, GenericGTAO said:

Maybe when R* adds free aim lobbies, they will call it "skills based lobby" and you can sit back and feel superior to autoaimers and enjoy your game griefer free.

Why are you acting like a triggered teenager? Have you had a very bad day so far?

 

I do not feel superiour and I do not think people who play with aim lock are noobs. What the hell is wrong with you man? Either you are trolling or you need to get some f*cking sleep.

 

I want BOTH because I recognize that the player base want both. I’ll play free aim because I find it more fun, and give better shoot outs and it fixes the toxic free roam to a great extent.

 

Aim lock people are just as fine people as everyone else. They just want a different experience and I respect that.

 

I’ll happily play with people who are not great shots. I like free aim because of the gameplay, but am very casual and not at all elitist in my selection of Crew members.

 

No go have a 8 hour power nap.

Edited by Gallows

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*Lola

I like mixed aim. This way it doesn't take forever for the games to fill up like in gtao. I hope they keep it this way.

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kenmy13999
3 minutes ago, Gallows said:

It’s not dangerous dying once, but that’s not the point. No matter how you feel about dying, you can be more at ease with free aim, because you know it is much more unlike to be instantly killed. Knowing people have free aim and that they can go from passive to one shotting you in a split second will influence descisions for many players, including how much slack they give people and if they adopt a shoot first attitude or not.

 

It really is the same for GTA, so it’s not just guessing. GTA still has issues because of all the stupid BOOM sh*t in that game, but regardless free aim lobbies are very different. They will be even more different in RDO because of the weapon selection.

Thought there was no passive here? 

Are you trying to explain a reason of why some people act as they do because of something that's not in the game and might come one day? 

 

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Gallows
Just now, kenmy13999 said:

Thought there was no passive here? 

Are you trying to explain a reason of why some people act as they do because of something that's not in the game and might come one day? 

 

Not talking about passive MODE, just people who do not engage in violence. Should have used a better word :)

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CosmicBuffalo

You blamed toxcity on autoaim.  With little to no evidence other than you can ride by and shoot someone, so I gave my opinion against that and you attacked me.  I am anti-fps.

 

 If it were up to me, 1st person would be for observing only.  Keep it 3rd for combat.  I like my characters.  I want to see them.  I do not want to pretend to be them or have no connection to them at all.

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kenmy13999
3 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Not talking about passive MODE, just people who do not engage in violence. Should have used a better word :)

But why do you need the first shot?

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Gallows
10 minutes ago, GenericGTAO said:

You blamed toxcity on autoaim.  With little to no evidence other than you can ride by and shoot someone, so I gave my opinion against that and you attacked me.  I am anti-fps.

 

 If it were up to me, 1st person would be for observing only.  Keep it 3rd for combat.  I like my characters.  I want to see them.  I do not want to pretend to be them or have no connection to them at all.

😂 for real?

 

I explained why and made a case. I didn’t just call aimlockers names and considered that to be an argument. Evidence is something else, than an argument. Evidence can be used to back up an argument. But what I used to back up my argument was fact.

 

It’s a fact that headshotting is very easy on aim lock and fights are mostly head shot or die. It is very easy to kill people running, riding or when mounted. The fact that it is much easier means that dodging bulliets and escaping is very hard. Which in turn makes it harder for people who do not wish to engage griefers to escape. Usually griefers are the ones to shoot first, because by the very nature of things non-griefers do usually not shoot first. Shooting first being life or death, means griefers get an edge which is much greater than if not using aim lock.

 

I am not saying we must remove aim lock. I just want free aim lobbies and perhaps have some of the people tired of the amount of griefing give it a shot, because decreasing griefing from aim lock lobbies is not viable without ruining the game in other ways.

 

 

8 minutes ago, kenmy13999 said:

But why do you need the first shot?

Or you die. It’s perfectly fine if you have the stomach to just die and not care, but it’s still Besides the point that free aim gives more space for not making that descision so quickly because the shoot first or die element is not so pronounced.

Edited by Gallows

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Lonely-Martin
32 minutes ago, Gallows said:

It’s not dangerous dying once, but that’s not the point. No matter how you feel about dying, you can be more at ease with free aim, because you know it is much more unlike to be instantly killed. Knowing people have free aim and that they can go from passive to one shotting you in a split second will influence descisions for many players, including how much slack they give people and if they adopt a shoot first attitude or not.

 

It really is the same for GTA, so it’s not just guessing. GTA still has issues because of all the stupid BOOM sh*t in that game, but regardless free aim lobbies are very different. They will be even more different in RDO because of the weapon selection.

Hmmm. I've wasted so much time hunting as I've lost many pelts this week through being killed. (Errors too which adds to my bitching mind).

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Gallows
Just now, Lonely-Martin said:

Hmmm. I've wasted so much time hunting as I've lost many pelts this week through being killed. (Errors too which adds to my bitching mind).

Agree and even on freeaim lobbies it may happen, but your ability to escape will be greatly increased so it will happen less. But yea dying once at the wrong time can be a big deal.

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Lonely-Martin
3 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Agree and even on freeaim lobbies it may happen, but your ability to escape will be greatly increased so it will happen less. But yea dying once at the wrong time can be a big deal.

I'm with you here. Both free aim and PvE/invite only are key.

 

These 2 would just ease so much and I'm certain R* wants more gamers all round. Could be wring, but if this remains, after GTA:O, this just don't last and will only become more toxic. 

 

As shown above with GenericGTAO and me really. It really runs deep too. I expect more.

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CosmicBuffalo
16 minutes ago, Gallows said:

😂 for real?

 

I explained why and made a case. I didn’t just call aimlockers names and considered that to be an argument. Evidence is something else, than an argument. Evidence can be used to back up an argument. But what I used to back up my argument was fact.

 

It’s a fact that headshotting is very easy on aim lock and fights are mostly head shot or die. It is very easy to kill people running, riding or when mounted. The fact that it is much easier means that dodging bulliets and escaping is very hard. Which in turn makes it harder for people who do not wish to engage griefers to escape. Usually griefers are the ones to shoot first, because by the very nature of things non-griefers do usually not shoot first. Shooting first being life or death, means griefers get an edge which is much greater than if not using aim lock.

 

I am not saying we must remove aim lock. I just want free aim lobbies and perhaps have some of the people tired of the amount of griefing give it a shot, because decreasing griefing from aim lock lobbies is not viable without ruining the game in other ways.

 

 

Or you die. It’s perfectly fine if you have the stomach to just die and not care, but it’s still Besides the point that free aim gives more space for not making that descision so quickly because the shoot first or die element is not so pronounced.

Exactly, one scenario where auto aim can be used to "grief" isnt to blame.  I stated my opinion on the griefer issue.  Which is that FPS players in otherwords free aim players, who you seem to think are so "skilled", are the actual problem.  Not auto aim.  And if you want to make RDR another COD battlefield, whatever FPS you play, thats fine, but you should have to seek that out or at minimum be reminded just how arrogant you are for thinking this action adventure is just another mindless fps.

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Gallows
1 minute ago, GenericGTAO said:

Exactly, one scenario where auto aim can be used to "grief" isnt to blame.  I stated my opinion on the griefer issue.  Which is that FPS players in otherwords free aim players, who you seem to think are so "skilled", are the actual problem.  Not auto aim.  And if you want to make RDR another COD battlefield, whatever FPS you play, thats fine, but you should have to seek that out or at minimum be reminded just how arrogant you are for thinking this action adventure is just another mindless fps.

Yes you repeated the same “because I think so” drivel. I got it the first time.

 

3 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

I'm with you here. Both free aim and PvE/invite only are key.

 

These 2 would just ease so much and I'm certain R* wants more gamers all round. Could be wring, but if this remains, after GTA:O, this just don't last and will only become more toxic. 

 

As shown above with GenericGTAO and me really. It really runs deep too. I expect more.

PvE is a must, but even on PvP servers people may want to do stuff other than PvP, without changing lobbies and free aim just makes this less of a pain. PvE servers on the other hand gives players who do only want to play with aim lock, without the instant death easy griefing that follows.

 

I think we’ll get those four lobby types in time and then all the PvP aim lock people will be playing together, calling each other whatever-tryhards, while the rest of us can chill and have fun.

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White Shark

I reckon eventually they'll split the lobbies between free aim and auto.  However, if they don't, there is a solution:

 

Auto-aimers can only lock on to other auto-aimers.  When they try to lock on to someone who is using free aim, the lock on doesn't work and instead forces the auto-aimer to aim manually.

 

I don't see why anyone would have an issue with this.  Except for auto-aiming griefers.

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Lonely-Martin
Just now, Gallows said:

Yes you repeated the same “because I think so” drivel. I got it the first time.

 

PvE is a must, but even on PvP servers people may want to do stuff other than PvP, without changing lobbies and free aim just makes this less of a pain. PvE servers on the other hand gives players who do only want to play with aim lock, without the instant death easy griefing that follows.

 

I think we’ll get those four lobby types in time and then all the PvP aim lock people will be playing together, calling each other whatever-tryhards, while the rest of us can chill and have fun.

Oh absolutely. That's another thing from GTA I'm cautious of, access.

 

Any session we choose, mission markers and content shouldn't be locked. And likewise, from a PvE session, we should be able to join deathmatches etc.

 

Definitely works both ways.

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afriendlyreddot

auto-aim lobbies in GTAO were toxic af, free-aim slightly less but once the filthy auto-aim casuals learned you could use free-aim assist in free-aim lobbies those went to hell too. still, i preferred the free-aim lobbies as there was much less griefing. hopefully in RDR2 they give us strictly free-aim lobbies for those of us that like to do the work ourselves, and strictly auto-aim lobbies for those who can't be bothered with actually trying and result to assuming free-aimers are elitist d-bags because we enjoy a challenge..

Edited by afriendlyreddot

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CosmicBuffalo

You started a thread about getting head shotted from a horse rider and turned that into how auto aim is the cause of toxicity.  And act as if "you just think that" is some kindve rebuttal to saying youre off.

 

Every other scenario even the horse rider has a counter....put something between you and an approaching player.  

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Gallows
1 minute ago, afriendlyreddot said:

auto-aim lobbies in GTAO were toxic af, free-aim slightly less but once the filthy auto-aim casuals learned you could use free-aim assist in free-aim lobbies those went to hell too. still, i preferred the free-aim lobbies as there was much less griefing. hopefully in RDR2 they give us strictly free-aim lobbies for those of us that like to do the work ourselves, and strictly auto-aim lobbies for those who can't be bothered with actually trying and result to assuming free-aimers are elitist d-bags because we enjoy a challenge..

The free aim lobbies of RDR1 were brilliant. I know there were both issues with mechanics and lock on exploits in GTAO free aim, but haven’t played in a while, so don’t know of it has been fixed. Pure freeaim is however very nice for gameplay and less easy griefing.

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Jenkiiii

I've been a free-aim player for over ten years, but I have switched to auto-aim in RDR2 for two main reasons:

 

1. All aim types are mixed into the same lobby, so if you like free-aim you're at a massive disadvantage and won't be able to defend yourself. If you look at the controller settings you'll see a slider bar and various options to configure how strong auto-aim is, so I don't see a way of forcing separate free-aim and auto-aim lobbies at the moment. You'll have to accept it as personal preference and choose whether to be a more organic player with free-aim, or a PvP player with auto-aim. And there's no kd/r any more, so who really cares?

 

2. Making money is pretty tough in RDR2, so any quick kills on beasts for carcasses and pelts is welcome.

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Gallows
Just now, GenericGTAO said:

You started a thread about getting head shotted from a horse rider and turned that into how auto aim is the cause of toxicity.  And act as if "you just think that" is some kindve rebuttal to saying youre off.

 

Every other scenario even the horse rider has a counter....put something between you and an approaching player.  

The topic title sort of states clearly what my intentions with the thread is, so I didn’t turn it in to anything. Just stop yourself, it’s getting silly.

3 minutes ago, Jenkiiii said:

I've been a free-aim player for over ten years, but I have switched to auto-aim in RDR2 for two main reasons:

 

1. All aim types are mixed into the same lobby, so if you like free-aim you're at a massive disadvantage and won't be able to defend yourself. If you look at the controller settings you'll see a slider bar and various options to configure how strong auto-aim is, so I don't see a way of forcing separate free-aim and auto-aim lobbies at the moment. You'll have to accept it as personal preference and choose whether to be a more organic player with free-aim, or a PvP player with auto-aim. And there's no kd/r any more, so who really cares?

 

2. Making money is pretty tough in RDR2, so any quick kills on beasts for carcasses and pelts is welcome.

If you switch to free aim and turn the assist slider all the way up, it is still ok. The assist you get in free aim is very subtle and sometimes actually worse than having it off :)

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Dr.Rosenthal

I’d like there to be auto aim for all non-human kills; hunting and killing npc’s. And then have free aim PvP.

 

I’ve been thinking about going free aim completely but then it’d be an utter nightmare to hunt for birds, kill enemy npc’s while on horseback etc.

 

I’m pretty good with the auto-aim too and usually go for headshots, so I’m guessing a lot of people don’t like me. But then I almost never kill others unprovoked, and if they ride away from a fight I usually leave them alone. It’s their own damn fault if they keep coming back at me and getting their arse kicked.

Edited by Dr.Rosenthal

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afriendlyreddot
13 minutes ago, Jenkiiii said:

I've been a free-aim player for over ten years, but I have switched to auto-aim in RDR2 for two main reasons:

 

1. All aim types are mixed into the same lobby, so if you like free-aim you're at a massive disadvantage and won't be able to defend yourself. If you look at the controller settings you'll see a slider bar and various options to configure how strong auto-aim is, so I don't see a way of forcing separate free-aim and auto-aim lobbies at the moment. You'll have to accept it as personal preference and choose whether to be a more organic player with free-aim, or a PvP player with auto-aim. And there's no kd/r any more, so who really cares?

 

2. Making money is pretty tough in RDR2, so any quick kills on beasts for carcasses and pelts is welcome.

see i considered playing auto-aim once i realized they put us all in the same lobbies, i was hoping the free-aim settings from single player would carry over and drop me into a free-aim lobby with others but yeah no. my first kill against an npc using auto-aim quickly made me change my mind though, laying down hordes of del lobos feels better for me after i miss a few shots and my hands get a good sweat. i slow my breathing, lead my shots more, and presto i'm mostly on target and kickin a$$. granted defending myself when idiots come after me while i'm out gathering feathers is more difficult than it needs to be but more practice for me, i don't have that same feeling of needing to compete in RDR2 as I had in GTAO and it's great.

 

as silly as it seems, when i drove my first 5-speed i could never go back to an automatic for my own vehicles, and when i drove my first 6-speed i could never go back to a 5-speed lol. i don't drive around like i'm paul walker out of the fast movies but i simply enjoy the connection i feel between my actions, and what my car is doing. automatics these days are mostly superior to manual transmissions for practicality but i'm not into practicality, i'm into what gives me the most driver feedback.

Edited by afriendlyreddot

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Gallows
1 minute ago, Dr.Rosenthal said:

I’d like there to be auto aim for all non-human kills; hunting and killing npc’s. And then have free aim PvP.

 

I’ve been thinking about going free aim completely but then it’d be an utter nightmare to hunt for birds, kill enemy npc’s while on horseback etc.

 

I’m pretty good with the auto-aim too and usually go for headshots, so I’m guessing a lot of people don’t like me. But then I almost never kill others unprovoked, and if they ride away from a fight I usually leave them alone.

All animals except birds are ok to shoot with free aim. You won’t be shooting Rabbits from horseback, but on foot it’s actually fine.

 

Birds however are really hard. What I think they should do instead is to allow birds to be shot with shotguns, to give perfect animals. Then the spread could make it doable and just perfect. Have shot a few airborne ducks and geese with my longbow in real life, but a shotgun is the usual gun for birds.

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kenmy13999
13 minutes ago, GenericGTAO said:

Exactly, one scenario where auto aim can be used to "grief" isnt to blame.  I stated my opinion on the griefer issue.  Which is that FPS players in otherwords free aim players, who you seem to think are so "skilled", are the actual problem.  Not auto aim.  And if you want to make RDR another COD battlefield, whatever FPS you play, thats fine, but you should have to seek that out or at minimum be reminded just how arrogant you are for thinking this action adventure is just another mindless fps.

I have adhd play Battlefield but I have still very little interest in griefing in either gtao or rdo, I want something else out of those games. 

You're probably right that a lot of griefers in gtao/rdo might be playing  cod, bf or other FPS games but you seem to ignore that it can go the other way around also.

Out of around 200 people on my friend list it's maybe around 20-25 that plays either cod or bf. At least 10 of those people doesn't play gtao/rdo. Two of the people that I play relatively often with that plays both type of games really enjoy deathmatches and similar game modes in gtao. 

So it's maybe around 170 people I've never seen play either cod or bf and most of those people are friended through gta. Some people I haven't seen on since the PS3 days and some I rarely see on but there's still a lot of them that still plays gta and I've also seen a lot of them engaging in free roam fights. 

 

So based on my personal experience I would say that your opinion maybe seems to be based on how you believe things are and necessarily how they actually are. 

 

Tldr or whatever: some griefers plays both types of games, some griefers only plays gtao/rdo and some people that plays both types of games have little interest in griefing in gtao/rdo :)

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Gallows
2 minutes ago, kenmy13999 said:

Tldr or whatever: some griefers plays both types of games, some griefers only plays gtao/rdo and some people that plays both types of games have little interest in griefing in gtao/rdo :)

There are griefers on freeaim lobbies as well, buy since griefing is so much harder, most people who really love griefing do not bother with freeaim lobbies.

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CosmicBuffalo

Typical nonresponses used by FPS player getting owned.  I am awaiting the "you mad" 

 

There is as  much evidence to support that by attempting to cater to FPS players, has caused much more toxicity in GTAO and RDO. Now that KDR is hidden and passive mode is removed, allowing for revenge on the mentally fragile FPS player, FPS players have to complain about how some no "skilled" player, got a kill on them. but you missed the mark and complained about auto aim as if its the cause of griefing.  Always on blips could just as easily be your opinion, but feeling superior due to your skill was the point of this thread.

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Gallows
Just now, GenericGTAO said:

Typical nonresponses used by FPS player getting owned.  I am awaiting the "you mad" 

 

There is as  much evidence to support that by attempting to cater to FPS players, has caused much more toxicity in GTAO and RDO. Now that KDR is hidden and passive mode is removed, allowing for revenge on the mentally fragile FPS player, FPS players have to complain about how some no "skilled" player, got a kill on them. but you missed the mark and complained about auto aim as if its the cause of griefing.  Always on blips could just as easily be your opinion, but feeling superior due to your skill was the point of this thread.

Stop being a moron. I already adressed your “feeling superiour” argument and all the other drivel. You’re arguing like a damn tv-preacher. God knows why you think what you present can ever be called an argument.

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kenmy13999
15 minutes ago, Gallows said:

There are griefers on freeaim lobbies as well, buy since griefing is so much harder, most people who really love griefing do not bother with freeaim lobbies.

In a game like gta I don't think there's much difference from auto aim lobbies to free aim lobbies because a lot of/most of the griefing happens from/with vehicles/weapons that doesn't have any aim assistance at all. 

I've also seen people that claims that FA lobbies in gta or so much more peaceful than AA lobbies and vice versa. 

To early to say about this game but you might be right 

 

Edit: This game I think you're right about this game 

Edited by kenmy13999

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