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Gallows

Aim lock, the toxicity catalyst

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Gallows

Aim lock is the main cause of peoples issues with griefers. With free aim you would not be able to “Aim, flick, BOOM HEADSHOT” people riding past you at full speed and you would not be able to do it riding through town full speed either.

 

Aim lock is the main reason for the toxic griefing some people experience in this game.

 

If the developers are to balance the freedom, PvP and all else related to free roam around aim lock, then it will suck.

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Rooni

I agree that auto aim is for straight casual trash but we already have like 2 threads about this bud. 

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Rithrius

You know it's a door that swings both ways right? What's stopping you from auto-aiming at the griefers while riding at full speed? You're still much harder to hit than they are.

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Lonely-Martin

It would certainly help. But I'm staying auto and pestering for PvE lobbies.

 

Gaming can be hard-core, and great for those keen. They shouldnt be among auto aim as it completely undermines the point.

But also casual fun too. some just don't (or can't as I am half blind really, and my son has motor skills issues) want to play like that. More to this game that killing. Always will be in an open world with options.

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Gallows
2 minutes ago, Rithrius said:

You know it's a door that swings both ways right? What's stopping you from auto-aiming at the griefers while riding at full speed? You're still much harder to hit than they are.

Not really. Simply not engaging in combat is impossible with aim lock. How are you to know if someone is a griefer before he kills you in one shot?

 

With free aim a lot of the complaints from people being killed by griefers would not be there, as they would be able to escape often and the instant one shot kills would be very rare.

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durkahdurkah

There should be a breakdown with different lobby types (like the original):

 

hardcore = free aim, no blips unless shots fired.

normal = the current mess we have now.

friendly = PVE. 

 

 

This current state for RDO WILL change.. it has to. There will be more lobby types.. it's just a case of whether the handle the blips on the map correctly, and that they don't lump free aim with assist with pure free aim. 

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Gallows
2 minutes ago, durkahdurkah said:

There should be a breakdown with different lobby types (like the original):

 

hardcore = free aim, no blips unless shots fired.

normal = the current mess we have now.

friendly = PVE. 

 

 

This current state for RDO WILL change.. it has to. There will be more lobby types.. it's just a case of whether the handle the blips on the map correctly, and that they don't lump free aim with assist with pure free aim. 

I hope it will, but really I think it is important for people to realise that the griefing will never change as long as they play in aim lock lobbies, forced as it is now or by choice.

 

I dislike aim lock, because it makes shoot outs bad, but I respect people who want this as an option. I do however believe people would get a much better free roam experience if no one had aim lock - even of you like aim lock. Unless you’re a griefer of course, becaus then aim lock is your bread and butter.

Edited by Gallows

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Rooni
1 minute ago, Gallows said:

 

 

With free aim a lot of the complaints from people being killed by griefers would not be there, as they would be able to escape often and the instant one shot kills would be very rare.

This. Not sure if any of you guys play GTAO Free Aim but it is much more friendlier there (not saying there is no bulletproof wearing tryhards as they're everywhere). I am part of MC on GTAO with a little roleplay aspect and when we go on rides in public lobbies, we have more randoms that join us and watch than shooting at us. Riding a motorcycle in Auto Aim GTAO is straight impossible because you'll get one tapped while driving by some kid at 90 mph. That doesnt happen in free aim.

Also people are a lot more afraid to shoot other players in free aim because they're afraid of getting creamed by other players because they're afraid the other player might be better than them.

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Gallows
46 minutes ago, Rooni said:

This. Not sure if any of you guys play GTAO Free Aim but it is much more friendlier there (not saying there is no bulletproof wearing tryhards as they're everywhere). I am part of MC on GTAO with a little roleplay aspect and when we go on rides in public lobbies, we have more randoms that join us and watch than shooting at us. Riding a motorcycle in Auto Aim GTAO is straight impossible because you'll get one tapped while driving by some kid at 90 mph. That doesnt happen in free aim.

Also people are a lot more afraid to shoot other players in free aim because they're afraid of getting creamed by other players because they're afraid the other player might be better than them.

Yes, even though I don’t like GTAO because of all the stupid sh*t (rocket launchers, attack planes and so on and on and on), I can enjoy it with free aim. It changes the game to such an extent that with the right people it becomes playable and enjoyable. Griefing is so much harder with free aim. I’ll go so far and say that if all we had was free aim, then griefing would be a very minor issue.

 

There just is no way to have aim lock and no griefing without ruining the rest of the game.

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REXX
1 hour ago, Gallows said:

Aim lock is the main cause of peoples issues with griefers. 

Wrong. Rockstar putting all aim options into one is the cause.

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Gallows
3 minutes ago, REXX said:

Wrong. Rockstar putting all aim options into one is the cause.

No. Even if everyone is using aim lock, you’ll have the same issues. If lobbies were seperated you would still have the same issues on aim lock lobbies simply because of how easy it is to one shot people riding full speed or running for cover.

 

Sure griefer against griefer works just as well on both types of aiming. But griefer against peaceful player is so much worse on aim lock lobbies. The same is true for GTAO, so it’s nothing new.

Edited by Gallows

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REXX
1 minute ago, Gallows said:

No. Even if everyone is using aim lock, you’ll have the same issues. If lobbies were seperated you would still have the same issues on aim lock lobbies simply because of how easy it is to one shot people riding full speed or running for cover. 

Ideally, they should have added Passive Mode. Why they didn't is beyond me. Hopefully they're working on it though. Having just public sessions is bad enough at the moment.

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Gallows
13 minutes ago, REXX said:

Ideally, they should have added Passive Mode. Why they didn't is beyond me. Hopefully they're working on it though. Having just public sessions is bad enough at the moment.

No. Passive mode is a built in exploit and it ruins more than it fixes. PvE lobbies is the way to go. But I agree, players should be able to play games without PvP, but not in the same lobby. I am a PvP’er at heart, but get absolutely no joy at all from killing players who do not like PvP.

 

Yesterday riding with my mate, we met a lot of players and did not engage in combat. Then a player was riding up behind us, he made no aggressive moves and didn’t have his gun out. My friend turned around and shot him, but didn’t hit him well, so he fell off his horse and I had to shoot him in the face to finish it. “Retard, what the f*ck are you doing” was ny immediately response to my mate. But could’t stop laughing and his response made it even worse “I didn’t like the way he was riding and approaching us, it didn’t feel right.” Was just so stupid, but also funny. Sent a message to the guy explaining and telling him I was sorry. Had this been free aim, we could perhaps had cleared up the misunderstanding, but I just didn’t want to risk him instantly one shotting one or both of us.

Edited by Gallows

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kenmy13999

The problem is people ;)

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The Wandering Hunter

free aim is friendlier to an extent in gtao than auto-aim. and the same principle applies here, just being able to drive somewhat near to people is nice.

10 minutes ago, kenmy13999 said:

The problem is people ;)

indeed, i’ll go play single player. f*ck this broken mess. (yes it’s a beta i know)

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Lonely-Martin
37 minutes ago, Gallows said:

No. Passive mode is a built in exploit and it ruins more than it fixes. PvE lobbies is the way to go. But I agree, players should be able to play games without PvP, but not in the same lobby. I am a PvP’er at heart, but get absolutely no joy at all from killing players who do not like PvP.

 

Yesterday riding with my mate, we met a lot of players and did not engage in combat. Then a player was riding up behind us, he made no aggressive moves and didn’t have his gun out. My friend turned around and shot him, but didn’t hit him well, so he fell off his horse and I had to shoot him in the face to finish it. “Retard, what the f*ck are you doing” was ny immediately response to my mate. But could’t stop laughing and his response made it even worse “I didn’t like the way he was riding and approaching us, it didn’t feel right.” Was just so stupid, but also funny. Sent a message to the guy explaining and telling him I was sorry. Had this been free aim, we could perhaps had cleared up the misunderstanding, but I just didn’t want to risk him instantly one shotting one or both of us.

But would freeaim have stopped your buddy really thinking 'oh sh*t, another rider. Must shoot him as I don't like another being near me' 

 

I feel not. Your buddy just took the shot, aim pref has little to do with impulse.

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Gallows
4 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

But would freeaim have stopped your buddy really thinking 'oh sh*t, another rider. Must shoot him as I don't like another being near me' 

 

I feel not. Your buddy just took the shot, aim pref has little to do with impulse.

Yes I know, but I would have had the time to seek cover and tell him sorry, because I would not have to worry about instant headshot. The incident may have been the same, but the outcome could have been different.

 

But my mate reacted that way because even on horseback you can do instant headshots, so it’s either shoot first or die, which makes it even more likely to make a descision like that.

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kenmy13999
8 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

But would freeaim have stopped your buddy really thinking 'oh sh*t, another rider. Must shoot him as I don't like another being near me' 

 

I feel not. Your buddy just took the shot, aim pref has little to do with impulse.

If you feel the need to be an asshole you'll be it anyway, it's just easier to get the kill in auto aim.. ;)

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Gallows
2 minutes ago, kenmy13999 said:

If you feel the need to be an asshole you'll be it anyway, it's just easier to get the kill in auto aim.. ;)

Agree with this also, but the funny thing is my mate isn’t an ashole. He agrees with me on the principle that we never kill players in free roam who do not bother us or are a clear threath like City campers we witness killing other players.

 

But he clearly felt the aim lock forced his hand so to speak and we had a good laugh about the situation afterwards.

Edited by Gallows

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Lonely-Martin
7 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Yes I know, but I would have had the time to seek cover and tell him sorry, because I would not have to worry about instant headshot. The incident may have been the same, but the outcome could have been different.

 

But my mate reacted that way because even on horseback you can do instant headshots, so it’s either shoot first or die, which makes it even more likely to make a descision like that.

Yeah, as Kenmy above said. Players do what they do and we all choose that. I feel it was avoidable but I respect you sought to make peace too, certainly not enough of that in gaming, across the board. 

 

That's the issue, people and being anonymous. Too easy just to be a dick and move on. A plague in GTA and this game is made for it more.

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Gallows
3 minutes ago, Lonely-Martin said:

Yeah, as Kenmy above said. Players do what they do and we all choose that. I feel it was avoidable but I respect you sought to make peace too, certainly not enough of that in gaming, across the board. 

 

That's the issue, people and being anonymous. Too easy just to be a dick and move on. A plague in GTA and this game is made for it more.

I agree, although only having one character is good. Seperate accounts may still be an issue, but that means levelling up two characters. You do however quickly become known in a lobby, for being either an arse or a more sensible player. If this could be expanded more across lobbies I’d be happy.

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kenmy13999
16 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Agree with this also, but the funny thing is my mate isn’t an ashole. He agrees with me on the principle that we never kill players in free roam who do not bother us or are a clear threath like City campers we witness killing other players.

 

But he clearly felt the aim lock forced his hand so to speak and we had a good laugh about the situation afterwards.

The guy didn’t have his gun out and didn't make any aggressive moves, so your friend killed him for no reason? Say what you want but that's kind of being an asshole imo..

 

"Clearly felt the aim lock forced his hand..."  kind of like hearing the people that say "but the game told me to"..

 

Edit: I might sound a little harsh but it's not meant to be very harsh ;)

Edited by kenmy13999

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Lonely-Martin
1 minute ago, Gallows said:

I agree, although only having one character is good. Seperate accounts may still be an issue, but that means levelling up two characters. You do however quickly become known in a lobby, for being either an arse or a more sensible player. If this could be expanded more across lobbies I’d be happy.

True, but in my experience all a griefers want is attention and to disrupt. Progress and ranking up mean little at all. Just pissing in another's porridge is all they want. 

 

I'm glad the tutorial is a decent length. Hope unlike GTA it doesn't become a thing we can skip. Might put a few off knowing they have to play properly for a little, lol.

1 minute ago, kenmy13999 said:

The guy didn’t have his gun out and didn't make any aggressive moves, so your friend killed him for no reason? Say what you want but that's kind of being an asshole imo..

 

"Clearly felt the aim lock forced his hand..."  kind of like hearing the people that say "but the game told me to"..

And thats how it grows. Now I know I have to have my gun out ready or I'm certain to lose if I pass another. They then think 'oh sh*t, he's here to attack'

 

Nope, I need to be defensive.

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Gallows
7 minutes ago, kenmy13999 said:

The guy didn’t have his gun out and didn't make any aggressive moves, so your friend killed him for no reason? Say what you want but that's kind of being an asshole imo..

 

"Clearly felt the aim lock forced his hand..."  kind of like hearing the people that say "but the game told me to"..

 

Edit: I might sound a little harsh but it's not meant to be very harsh ;)

Hence my immediate reaction of calling him a retard 😂 But I was surprised, because he don’t usually do stuff like that. It is just a fact that lock on aiming makes one shotting so easy that you really need to shoot first or die. With free aiming you would have a bit more freedom to wait and see what he does and the need to have your weapons out at all times would not be so great.

Edited by Gallows

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CosmicBuffalo

In general free aim players are cod, battelfield, halo/destiny adhd tryhards greifing in autoaim lobbys.  Autoaim has stratgey to it.  Are you going to get blasted, yeah, but the the cover feature is meant to be a counter.  RDR2 should  be more cover based because their isnt a rocket being shot at the floor because no one has explosvie ammo yet.  Although, I have found it a bit wonky try to take cover on odd shaped rocks/trees which makes sense.

 

 I prefer auto aim to free aim games.  Its the default in both Red Deads.  If you want to pretend your playing rightous slaughter 15, feel free.  I wish first person didnt have an advantage in GTAO, I cannot really tell if there is one in RDR2.  Hardly anyone will stay and fight. I think there should be a lobby you have to seek out if want free aim.  The default should be auto aim.  

Edited by GenericGTAO

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Gallows
1 minute ago, GenericGTAO said:

In general free aim players are cod, battelfield, halo/destiny adhd tryhards greifing in autoaim lobbys.  Autoaim has stratgey to it.  Are you going to get blasted, yeah, but the the cover feature is meant to be a counter.  RDR2 should more cover based because their isnt a rocket being shot at the floor because no one has explosvie ammo yet.  Although, I have found it a bit wonky try to take cover on odd shaped rocks/trees which makes sense.

 

 I prefer auto aim to free aim games.  Its the default in both Red Deads.  If you want to pretend your playing rightous slaughter 15, feel free.  I wish first person didnt have an advantage in GTAO, I cannot really tell if there is one in RDR2.  Hardly anyone will stay and fight. I think there should be a lobby you have to seek out if want free aim.  The default should be auto aim.  

There should be no default. There should be two lobby types - one for free aim and one for aim lock.

 

Your claim that free aimers are blablabla tryhards griefing in aim lock lobbies is the single most stupid thing I have read on this board. I do hope you meant it the other way around. Two players of equal skill, there is no way the free aimer will ever grief the one using aim lock. Never going to happen. But I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant aim lock people griefing free aim players.

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kenmy13999
3 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Hence my immediate reaction of calling him a retard 😂 But I was surprised, because he don’t usually do stuff like that. It is just a fact that lock on aiming makes one shotting so easy that you really need to shoot first or die. With free aiming you would have a bit more freedom to wait and see what he does and the need to have your weapons out at all times would not be so great.

Why is it so "dangerous" to die once? I mean, he could've given him the benefit of the doubt since he didn't have his guns out or didn't make any aggressive moves. 

Imo it's this kind of mindset that is contributing to why people shoot first and never asks.. 

 

Yesterday i was in a really friendly session for the first time since I loaded in to online the first time. Had some pelts I wanted to sell in Valentine, there was 6-7 people hanging around close to the butcher and they all could've shot me or each other at any time, yet no one did, if your friend was there it would have been total mayhem. In the same session I also passed people on horse and on foot and from probably 15-20 encounters it was one person that shot at me and he missed, so I killed him. After that he went the other way and didn't see him again 

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CosmicBuffalo

 Yeah, find a tryhard.  View profile almost guaranteed to have COD, Battefield, and other FPS games predominately in their history.  I have seen it enough to make an educated guess.

 

I actually think its dumb to come in swimming against the current saying auto aim shouldnt be the default or on the same footing with freeaim.  When autoaim is the default in both Red Dead games and RDR is an action adventure game, not an FPS.  I think there was a hardcore mode in Red Dead Multiplayer.  It will probably come, but as the name implied. You were probably a cod adhd if you were going there straight away.

 

 

Edited by GenericGTAO

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Gallows
12 minutes ago, GenericGTAO said:

 Yeah, find a tryhard.  View profile almost guaranteed to have COD, Battefield, and other FPS games predominately in their history.  I have seen it enough to make an educated guess.

 

I actually think its dumb to come in swimming against the current saying auto aim shouldnt be the default or on the same footing with freeaim.  When autoaim is the default in both Red Dead games and RDR is an action adventure game, not an FPS.  I think there was a hardcore mode in Red Dead Multiplayer.  It will probably come, but as the name implied. You were probably a cod adhd if you were going there straight away.

 

 

I’m not going to waste any more time on you. Your logic and presentation of so-called logic is all the argument I need.

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Lonely-Martin
14 minutes ago, GenericGTAO said:

 Yeah, find a tryhard.  View profile almost guaranteed to have COD, Battefield, and other FPS games predominately in their history.  I have seen it enough to make an educated guess.

 

I actually think its dumb to come in swimming against the current saying auto aim shouldnt be the default or on the same footing with freeaim.  When autoaim is the default in both Red Dead games and RDR is an action adventure game, not an FPS.  I think there was a hardcore mode in Red Dead Multiplayer.  It will probably come, but as the name implied. You were probably a cod adhd if you were going there straight away.

 

 

See, for me, this adds to the hostility. PvP in any form is a hugely popular and loved area of gaming. I respect many love it and relish the challenge players bring over NPC's.

 

But I strongly feel there's room/enough to have a PvE playerbase thrive too. 

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