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Journey_95

Do you want a more serious tone for GTA VI?

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Journey_95

At least a balance between GTA IV/GTA V would be good here imho. GTA V's story was fun but wasn't very impactful and memorable, the story just seemed an excuse to do over the top missions. There was no tension, no threatening villians, no serious/emotional moments etc. 

 

I think RDR2 has shown again how great Rockstar's writing can be, if they actually try and don't just make over the top stories. 

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El Penguin Bobo

Eh, why not, as long as it's not TOO serious to the point where it seems boring and gets criticized for being too dark.

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TheSantader25

I want a story that respects the GTA Series core. Each series should stick to it's core. San Andreas had the perfect balance IMO. A story with that tone could be good IMO. I don't want seriousness for the sake of it. Everything should feel "right". Not forced. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Journey_95
2 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

I want a story that respects the GTA Series. Each series should stick to it's core. San Andreas had the perfect balance IMO. A story with that tone could be good IMO. 

I mean GTA V wasn't goofier than SA for the most part, at least from what I remember. What makes you say it had a better balance, because of missions like "The Green Sabre"?

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TheSantader25
6 minutes ago, Journey_95 said:

I mean GTA V wasn't goofier than SA for the most part, at least from what I remember. What makes you say it had a better balance, because of missions like "The Green Sabre"?

San Andreas covered almost every area of crime possible and the characters and story were spot on for the time. They seemed real. While it had a couple of over the top missions I don't mind a couple in the series. I have a different take on this series than you. While I don't want missions like "green goo" to be an important part of the series, I don't mind a couple in each game to add to the flavour. SA was really varied and vast and IMO had the best missions R* have ever done while sticking to a legit and meaningful story. Once again this series has a lot of potential to include many things. That's why I don't want it to be restricted because of it's tone. A couple of over the top missions for a change isn't bad for GTA.2 or 3 in 100 missions is pretty good. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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FadeAway

What I loved about IV was that even though it did seem dark in tone and overall atmosphere, it had fun and humor but also had its serious moments. V did seem forced and mediocre, though had its moments. A balance somewhere can be met. Some of the GTA series had humor even though the tone was ''dark'' dating back lll (one of my favorites in humor).

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Journey_95
41 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

San Andreas covered almost every area of crime possible and the characters and story were spot on for the time. They seemed real. While it had a couple of over the top missions I don't mind a couple in the series. I have a different take on this series than you. While I don't want missions like "green goo" to be an important part of the series, I don't mind a couple in each game to add to the flavour. SA was really varied and vast and IMO had the best missions R* have ever done while sticking to a legit and meaningful story. Once again this series has a lot of potential to include many things. That's why I don't want it to be restricted because of it's tone. A couple of over the top missions for a change isn't bad for GTA.2 or 3 in 100 missions is pretty good. 

True, we clearly have different opinions on the series and the games. Still whether one likes GTA SA or not, I really don't think it had a serious tone for the most part.  Good mission variety, sure but the overall tone is pretty lighthearted and "fun" even in the grounded missions. There are barely any serious moments, no real consequences, everything for the most part goes pretty well for CJ & co. (The Green sabre is the exception but considering the end, it ended up being a good thing). The characters are likable but don't seem very real since they don't have real flaws and if they do it's not explored.  It's definitely not a gritty serious crime story imho.

 

Since you dislike GTA IV, we can compare it with TLAD which is also focused on a gang but handles the whole thing in a more mature & serious way. The ending shows the contrast. In SA CJ somehow manages to get everything and doesn't have to choose like some missions in the LS arc suggested. There is no real loss for him despite the betrayal of Big Smoke and everyone loves him (even Sweet is his bro again). He is ridiculously successful at the end.

 

Meanwhile Johnny after having lost many friends (some because of his bad decisions) and the gang basically going to sh*t, decides to put at end to it and the Lost (their chapter) is finished.  Billy and Brian's betrayal has far more serious consequences and Johnny pays for meddling with the mob (CJ robs a much more powerful mob boss and nothing happens apart from a phone call).

10 minutes ago, FadeAway said:

What I loved about IV was that even though it did seem dark in tone and overall atmosphere, it had fun and humor but also had its serious moments. V did seem forced and mediocre, though had its moments. A balance somewhere can be met. Some of the GTA series had humor even though the tone was ''dark'' dating back lll (one of my favorites in humor).

I agree..I always thought GTA IV already had a good balance in terms of tone but clearly many disagreed. At this point a mix of GTA IV/GTA V's tone would be more realistic 

Edited by Journey_95

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Happy Hunter

Not really. I'm fine with how GTA's always been.

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TheSantader25
40 minutes ago, Journey_95 said:

1.I really don't think it had a serious tone for the most part.  Good mission variety, sure but the overall tone is pretty lighthearted and "fun" even in the grounded missions. There are barely any serious moments, no real consequences, everything for the most part goes pretty well for CJ & co. (The Green sabre is the exception but considering the end, it ended up being a good thing). The characters are likable but don't seem very real since they don't have real flaws and if they do it's not explored.  It's definitely not a gritty serious crime story imho.

 

Since you dislike GTA IV, we can compare it with TLAD which is also focused on a gang but handles the whole thing in a more mature & serious way. The ending shows the contrast. In SA CJ somehow manages to get everything and doesn't have to choose like some missions in the LS arc suggested. There is no real loss for him despite the betrayal of Big Smoke and everyone loves him (even Sweet is his bro again). He is ridiculously successful at the end.

 

Meanwhile Johnny after having lost many friends (some because of his bad decisions) and the gang basically going to sh*t, decides to put at end to it and the Lost (their chapter) is finished.  Billy and Brian's betrayal has far more serious consequences and Johnny pays for meddling with the mob (CJ robs a much more powerful mob boss and nothing happens apart from a phone call).

 

Well I think you have a pretty unique logic regarding tone. Correct me if I'm wrong but does Serious tone always mean that someone should die or the protagonist shouldn't be successful in anyway? Serious doesn't always come with sad endings. CJ left to LC and the consequences were losing his mom, brother and the GSF becoming weak while many members died or turned corrupt(B DUP and big bear)  and smoke and Ryder looking for more profitable opportunities. This is a pretty damn heavy consequence. A consequence that had to be fixed throughout the game by CJ. The worst that can be. Sweet blamed him and he doesn't forgive him even till the end(see mission "Los Desperados''). CJ being successful comes mostly because of his skills. He was powerful enough to pull himself out if the situation and move forward while Johnny could never let go of his past. CJ was ambitious. While Johnny always seemed hopeless and sad. The difference comes from the attitude. CJ believes in "success and hard work" unlike Johnny. CJ aimed to make new friends to help him(WU ZI MU, Cesar, Truth,...) while Johnny mostly sticked to his gang(with the exception of Thomas Stubbs and Malc who were also a good help). See? CJ was smart and took any opportunity he could to make things better. He was a true hard worker from start to finish. The success at the end was the product of a really difficult work. It didn't come out of the blue. CJ pulled himself out of the true definition of zero to top. 

 

I don't dislike IV at all. I love it. But after SA, V, VC. 

 

Salvatore couldn't reach CJ because he quickly moved to LS and LS turned into a war zone soon. Salvatore quickly had his problems as well and had to focus on more important things than revenge. The mafia couldn't do sh*t there. This is one of the reasons I like LS more than any other GTA city. It can't be f*cked and controlled by stupid mafias because LS is ruled by the gangs and corrupt law enforcement. It's a far different city than other GTA cities. Mafias can't do sh*t in LS. VC, LC, LV are ruled by mafias. It's stupid to send a hit squad to a war zone like LS at that time. 

 

in the end you always seem to think "consequences" mean that the protagonist should die or lose something important in the "end". SA told a different story. The "losing and dying" part already happened and CJ had to fix it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Journey_95
34 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

Well I think you have a pretty unique logic regarding tone. Correct me if I'm wrong but does Serious tone always mean that someone should die or the protagonist shouldn't be successful in anyway? Serious doesn't always come with sad endings. CJ left to LC and the consequences were losing his mom, brother and the GSF becoming weak while many members died or turned corrupt(B DUP and big bear)  and smoke and Ryder looking for more profitable opportunities. This is a pretty damn heavy consequence. A consequence that had to be fixed throughout the game by CJ. The worst that can be. Sweet blamed him and he doesn't forgive him even till the end(see mission "Los Desperados''). CJ being successful comes mostly because of his skills. He was powerful enough to pull himself out if the situation and move forward while Johnny could never let go of his past. CJ was ambitious. While Johnny always seemed hopeless and sad. The difference comes from the attitude. CJ believes in "success and hard work" unlike Johnny. CJ aimed to make new friends to help him(WU ZI MU, Cesar, Truth,...) while Johnny mostly sticked to his gang(with the exception of Thomas Stubbs and Malc who were also a good help). See? CJ was smart and took any opportunity he could to make things better. He was a true hard worker from start to finish. The success at the end was the product of a really difficult work. It didn't come out of the blue. CJ pulled himself out of the true definition of zero to top. 

 

I don't dislike IV at all. I love it. But after SA, V, VC. 

 

Salvatore couldn't reach CJ because he quickly moved to LS and LS turned into a war zone soon. Salvatore quickly had his problems as well and had to focus on more important things than revenge. The mafia couldn't do sh*t there. This is one of the reasons I like LS more than any other GTA city. It can't be f*cked and controlled by stupid mafias because LS is ruled by the gangs and corrupt law enforcement. It's a far different city than other GTA cities. Mafias can't do sh*t in LS. VC, LC, LV are ruled by mafias. It's stupid to send a hit squad to a war zone like LS at that time. 

 

in the end you always seem to think "consequences" mean that the protagonist should die or lose something important in the "end". SA told a different story. The "losing and dying" part already happened and CJ had to fix it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Serious tone in a crime story means that there are real consequences to what the protagonists do, that there is actual weight to their (and their friends) criminal activities. That often means death and failing in various ways. I mean you played RDR2, it showed that very well. They often screwed up, many people died etc. that's how you do an impactful serious crime story. Literally every serious crime movie and tv show shows this (popular examples Goodfellas, The Sopranos, The Wire etc.).

 

Anyway regarding CJ, all that is just backstory that barely gets any focus. CJ doesn't even seem to care that much about what happened with his mother after the intro. What actually happened with Brian is always left vague so it doesn't really add much. The GSF being weak is easily solved once you do some missions for Sweet and Big Bear barely has any screentime so why should I care that he is a junkie?   

 

CJ is obviously a different character than Johnny but his story feels like a power fantasy to me, he is too "smart", becomes ridiculously successful in a short time, gets all the good opportunities with no consequences (Robbing the casino as a good example & that Salvatore can't reach him is a poor excuse, CJ would visit LV anyway again, even how he infiltrates the Loco Syndicate is forced and makes them look like morons). At the end him getting everything he wanted feels forced, like a Disney ending. Again it's a fine lighthearted crime story but definitely not a serious story with really human characters. I enjoy GTA VC way more because it's a more focused game and Tommy is a much better character but I wouldn't say it was really serious either. That was the whole point with GTA IV (and TLAD) to move the series into a darker grittier direction. 

Really? From your posts it seems you at least dislike Niko and his story a lot..

Edited by Journey_95

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Big_Smiley
1 hour ago, TheSantader25 said:

See? CJ was smart and took any opportunity he could to make things better. He was a true hard worker from start to finish. The success at the end was the product of a really difficult work. It didn't come out of the blue. CJ pulled himself out of the true definition of zero to top. 

And yet Sweets stubborn ass didn't give a flying sh*t about CJ's success in any way whatsoever and dragged him right back into hood.

 

Sweets clear words.....

 

Sweet: New clothes??.......

 

"N*GGA WHAT THE F*CK IS THIS BULL SH*T????????"

 

Crack head: "You you you yooouuu wanna buy this??? It sorta works!!!"

 

Sweet: "AY, THAT'S MOMS BLENDER".....

 

Sweet: "KENDL CAN MET US RIGHT HERE AT HER HOME."

 

CJ: "But there's nothing here no more".....

 

Sweet: "ROME WASN'T BUILD IN A DAY NIGUUUAH".

 

Lmao, Sweet kills me everytime during their final missions together :lol: Didn't even give zero f*cks that CJ acutally owned half of a highly popular casino in LV and was rich as hell to move somewhere else. Sweet reminds of a few road dogs I knew back in the days. Didn't matter what they had. The only thing they cared for was the hood. Not the best life to live really. Found my way out years back. But Sweet was just about respect and loyalty and keeping things tight. Nothing much else.

 

 

OT: For me just a mixture of IV's seriousness mixed with V's missions. SA tbh even though my favorite in the series but I found the story for me a lot more fun and enjoyable while not retaining much of a serious tone to it. The hood missions from the beginning are probably the closest taking from a Boyz n The Hood stand point of view from struggling friends and family with Gang violence in the ghetto. Everything else from Black Project and further with Green goo just seems enjoyable to me. Always has been since 2004. IV and TLAD definitely took a darker approach while TBOGT went back to the light harded way. V I want to say was in between the mix. More of the enjoyment part. It wasn't much on the same level as IV on the serious tone to it imo.

 

 

Edited by Big_Smiley

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TheSantader25
51 minutes ago, Journey_95 said:

Serious tone in a crime story means that there are real consequences to what the protagonists do, that there is actual weight to their (and their friends) criminal activities. 

Agreed.But SA had this. 

Quote

That often means death and failing in various ways.  

This is where you're wrong. Consequences don't OFTEN mean Death and failing especially when the criminal does things RIGHT. In RDR2 things made sense because the gang got many things WRONG. when a criminal does wrong he has to face consequences. But a successful job is a successful job because it was done RIGHT. many of the failures in RDR2 could have been prevented if Dutch planned things right. But he didn't. I disagree that death and failures are regarded realistic and serious. They often seem forced just to add to the emotional aspect.This is seen a lot in media. Death and failures should make sense. They shouldn't be there just for the sake of it and I explained why Salvatore couldn't reach him.

Quote

he is too "smart", becomes ridiculously successful in a short time

 

Disagreed. There's no such thing as TOO SMART.look at history. Full of geniuses.Some in criminal activities. Some in science. CJ is more of an opportunistic than actually being smart. He is a gery good businessman and detects ptofit. And it wasn't a SHORT TIME. He had people helping him who he found across his Journey and once again him being a good businessman understands who can be helpful(Woozie) and who is useless(Catalina) . it's actually a very long and difficult ride across a state.

Quote

   Anyway regarding CJ, all that is just backstory that barely gets any focus. CJ doesn't even seem to care that much about what happened with his mother after the intro. What actually happened with Brian is always left vague so it doesn't really add much. The GSF being weak is easily solved once you do some missions for Sweet and Big Bear barely has any screentime so why should I care that he is a junkie?   

 

GSF goes to sh*t again after those missions. Once again these are symptoms of being biased. In IV as well we barely get to know Niko's past. Whether you care about these people is up to you. Many people don't because they don't understand the hardships of living like that back in 90s LA. If anything I could care more about CJ's backstory more than Niko since I'm actually witnessing the results. 

Quote

   . I enjoy GTA VC way more because it's a more focused game and Tommy is a much better character but I wouldn't say it was really serious either. That was the whole point with GTA IV (and TLAD) to move the series into a darker grittier direction.

 

Oh the magic words. "Dark and gritty". These two words alone explain that R* went too far and "over the top". A realistic story is nor dark nor colorful. It's realistic. If you think Tommy is better that's your opinion. I can't add anything to that. But what I think is that VC is actually up there with V as the most colorful GTA. VC had no consequences as well and tommy just goes straight to the top in a short time. VC and V and TBOGT are the most colorful GTAs. while IV,TLAD are Dark. SA has the balance. 

Quote

 Really? From your posts it seems you at least dislike Niko and his story a lot.

 

 

Criticism is different. IV's story is a 9/10 from me and it's the best story after SA imo. The criticism you see is because of the 1 point that stops it from a 10/10.I don't like Niko because he is a hypocrite but I respect him as a protagonist.I love every GTA. But some more than others.  

Edited by TheSantader25

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SonOfLiberty

GTA IV has the best tone in the series so if GTA VI can get close to replicating that I will be very happy.

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Journey_95
13 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

Agreed.But SA had this. 

This is where you're wrong. Consequences don't OFTEN mean Death and failing especially when the criminal does things RIGHT. In RDR2 things made sense because the gang got many things WRONG. when a criminal does wrong he has to face consequences. But a successful job is a successful job because it was done RIGHT. many of the failures in RDR2 could have been prevented if Dutch planned things right. But he didn't. I disagree that death and failures are regarded realistic and serious. They often seem forced just to add to the emotional aspect.This is seen a lot in media. Death and failures should make sense. They shouldn't be there just for the sake of it and I explained why Salvatore couldn't reach him.

 

Disagreed. There's no such thing as TOO SMART.look at history. Full of geniuses.Some in criminal activities. Some in science. CJ is more of an opportunistic than actually being smart. He is a gery good businessman and detects ptofit. And it wasn't a SHORT TIME. He had people helping him who he found across his Journey and once again him being a good businessman understands who can be helpful(Woozie) and who is useless(Catalina) . it's actually a very long and difficult ride across a state.

 

GSF goes to sh*t again after those missions. Once again these are symptoms of being biased. In IV as well we barely get to know Niko's past. Whether you care about these people is up to you. Many people don't because they don't understand the hardships of living like that back in 90s LA. If anything I could care more about CJ's backstory more than Niko since I'm actually witnessing the results. 

 

Oh the magic words. "Dark and gritty". These two words alone explain that R* went too far and "over the top". A realistic story is nor dark nor colorful. It's realistic. If you think Tommy is better that's your opinion. I can't add anything to that. But what I think is that VC is actually up there with V as the most colorful GTA. VC had no consequences as well and tommy just goes straight to the top in a short time. VC and V and TBOGT are the most colorful GTAs. while IV,TLAD are Dark. SA has the balance. 

 

 

Criticism is different. IV's story is a 9/10 from me and it's the best story after SA imo. The criticism you see is because of the 1 point that stops it from a 10/10.I don't like Niko because he is a hypocrite but I respect him as a protagonist.I love every GTA. But some more than others.  

Yeah and every job done by CJ & co. working out well is unrealistic, really nothing goes wrong no matter how crazy the plan. Death and failures need to make sense sure but they definitely need to be in a serious crime story, otherwise it feels cheap.

 

I would put SA to the colorful GTA's as well. SA has like I said no real consequences either and CJ goes straight to the top as well in a short time and his rise is far more unrealistic than Tommy's. At least the latter is focused on a city and actually learns some stuff from Diaz, makes contacts and then takes over slowly with a clear vision which makes it more satisfying. CJ's story is random in comparison, he gets opportunities handed to him just tags along. Like imagine if the prize for the race wasn't the sh*tty garage what then? Or if Woozie didn't do the whole Casino business and give him the heist idea etc. He didn't have the "boss" type of mentality that Tommy had at all so his rise and him being such a successful guy was forced af.


Thing is we don't know anyone living in GSF. Sweet is in prison, Smoke and Ryders are traitors and CJ has basically moved on. GSF going to sh*t doesn't matter at all, especially since it's easily taken back later on anyway. Yeah but Niko's past is supposed to be a mystery that is revelead to you slowly, like John Marston in RDR. CJ's is just forgotten, especially his mother..I still thought his arc in LS was relatable and well done btw but after that things go downhill

 

Anyway overall we won't agree and it's best to stop and stop derailing the discussion. We clearly have different takes on what a serious crime story means and that's fine!

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TheSantader25

@Journey_95

I almost disagree with every point you made😂It sucks that we disagree so much regarding this but it is what it is.

 

 

But I don't think you simply understand the hardships of 90s LA and therefore can't sympathize with the the characters on this situation(TRYING SO HARD TO NOT PULL THE RACE CARD) 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Journey_95
1 hour ago, TheSantader25 said:

@Journey_95

I almost disagree with every point you made😂It sucks that we disagree so much regarding this but it is what it is.

  Hide contents

 

But I don't think you simply understand the hardships of 90s LA and therefore can't sympathize with the the characters on this situation(TRYING SO HARD TO NOT PULL THE RACE CARD) 

 

That may be true but like I said I actually liked the first part the most, especially as a fan of movies like Menace II Society and Boyz in the hood. The 90's LA vibe was well done. Just feel like the story while still entertaining jumps the shark after that.. To each their own, we don't agree on Niko's story and GTA IV in general either (at least we agree on RDR2).

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woggleman

Whoever wrote RDR2 should write the next GTA. That kind of feel can be transferred to a modern day setting with modern technology.

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Bloodytears1666

I only hope there will be no more Doomsday like things, with undercover FBI, supercomputers, fancy technology like flying Delorian, etc. I understand when it's one mission, or may be an Easter egg, but when such things become centered in scenario it stops being fun, and serious all together, making narration mediocre by default. Too much of movies nowadays looks like that, and GTA shouldn't from parody turns into just another movie for all family with slight rudeness.

 

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Journey_95
17 hours ago, woggleman said:

Whoever wrote RDR2 should write the next GTA. That kind of feel can be transferred to a modern day setting with modern technology.

Wait didn't Dan Houser write RDR2 as well (at least one of the main writers)? Only reason GTA V had a shallow story is because he had to pander to 3D Era fans who couldn't move on. TBOGT already showed this shift as well

 

With RDR2 he could finally do what he wanted again 

Edited by Journey_95

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TheSantader25
28 minutes ago, Journey_95 said:

 

 

With RDR2 he could finally do what he wanted again 

I think he is far more open minded than you think. He writes his story in a way to fit the game. I can assure you he wrote V that way because he wanted to and he wrote RDR2 because he wanted to as well Not because he wanted to appeal to anybody. You can't work on a game for 5 years and do things you don't like under the crunch. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Journey_95
1 hour ago, TheSantader25 said:

I think he is far more open minded than you think. He writes his story in a way to fit the game. I can assure you he wrote V that way because he wanted to and he wrote RDR2 because he wanted to as well Not because he wanted to appeal to anybody. You can't work on a game for 5 years and do things you don't like under the crunch. 

I disagree, the interviews before GTA IV's release make it clear that he clearly wanted a new direction for the franchise (kind of was a reboot). But then after the backlash you can already see the direction changing with TBOGT which doesn't fit the established gritty criminal underworld of IV and tone at all and changed characters like Bulgarin to be more "fun". This continued with GTA V.

 

Now I'm not saying he disliked writing GTA V's story (hell he probably had fun) but overall it (and TBOGT) feel so much like the extreme opposite of GTA IV and TLAD that it's hard to deny that he wasn't influenced by the criticism & was basically forced to go over the top and lighthearted. I really doubt that GTA would be like this if GTA IV somehow was the most popular game of the series and not SA. With RDR2 he wasn't limited at all after how well received RDR1 was and hell while some may have criticism about the gameplay of RDR2, I think most love the story & tone so hopefully the next RDR will continue with this style

Edited by Journey_95

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TheSantader25
7 minutes ago, Journey_95 said:

I disagree, the interviews before GTA IV's release make it clear that he clearly wanted a new direction for the franchise (kind of was a reboot). But then after the backlash you can already see the direction changing with TBOGT which doesn't fit the established gritty criminal underworld of IV and tone at all and changed characters like Bulgarin to be more "fun". This continued with GTA V.

 

Now I'm not saying he disliked writing GTA V's story (hell he probably had fun) but overall it (and TBOGT) feel so much like the extreme opposite of GTA IV and TLAD that it's hard to deny that he wasn't influenced by the criticism & was basically forced to go over the top and lighthearted. I really doubt that GTA would be like this if GTA IV somehow was the most popular game of the series and not SA. With RDR2 he wasn't limited at all after how well received RDR1 was and hell while some may have criticism about the gameplay of RDR2, I think most love the story & tone so hopefully the next RDR will continue with this style

And they did reboot the series like they said it in the interview but the TONE is a different subject. They wrote TBOGT, TLAD, IV that way because each fitted to be written that way. 

 

Dude when are you gonna realize people aren't always close-minded. They don't stick to one Dark or one colorful tone.you see everything black or white. That ain't the way the world works. Goddammit writers can't even survive if they stick to one GODDAMN thing. Get out of your tiny box and think more open. Why am I trying? We obviously won't agree on this. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Journey_95
23 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

And they did reboot the series like they said it in the interview but the TONE is a different subject. They wrote TBOGT, TLAD, IV that way because each fitted to be written that way. 

 

Dude when are you gonna realize people aren't always close-minded. They don't stick to one Dark or one colorful tone.you see everything black or white. That ain't the way the world works. Goddammit writers can't even survive if they stick to one GODDAMN thing. Get out of your tiny box and think more open. Why am I trying? We obviously won't agree on this. 

I doubt that, just because TBOGT focuses on the nightlife and more richer people doesn't mean it couldn't have been more serious instead of lighthearted and over the top (with no consequences). Rockstar made a clear effort to make it more like the 3D Era, GTAV even more so. It seems like you are in denial here for some reason.

 

You are naive to think that the criticism didn't affect Rockstar games, as long as there is enough it always has an impact. GTA isn't the only franchise, it has happened many times before and since then.

 

Yet they will 100% stick to a serious tone with RDR (doubt we will see any "colorful" RDR) and the Mafia series for an example sticks to that as well. Writers can definitely "survive" with focusing on one type of tone as long as things aren't rehashed. RDR1 still had a very different story from 2 for an example and people love both. TBOGT and V could have been more serious but still very different from IV, instead they went back to the old style and you think it's because Dan Houser & co. always planned that? Not because of the backlash that we all know happened and they wanted to get back the butthurt 3D Era fans? ..lol, c'mon.

Edited by Journey_95

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Lancerator

there is no better tone than gta iv's, it was probably the best demonstration of adult humor gta ever had imo

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woggleman
5 hours ago, Journey_95 said:

Wait didn't Dan Houser write RDR2 as well (at least one of the main writers)? Only reason GTA V had a shallow story is because he had to pander to 3D Era fans who couldn't move on. TBOGT already showed this shift as well

 

With RDR2 he could finally do what he wanted again 

I agree with this. I predicted before RDR2 came out that this would happen and I was right. V was a labor of obligation while RDR2 is a labor of love. 

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TheSantader25
6 hours ago, Journey_95 said:

I doubt that, just because TBOGT focuses on the nightlife and more richer people doesn't mean it couldn't have been more serious instead of lighthearted and over the top (with no consequences). Rockstar made a clear effort to make it more like the 3D Era, GTAV even more so. It seems like you are in denial here for some reason.

 

You are naive to think that the criticism didn't affect Rockstar games, as long as there is enough it always has an impact. GTA isn't the only franchise, it has happened many times before and since then.

 

Yet they will 100% stick to a serious tone with RDR (doubt we will see any "colorful" RDR) and the Mafia series for an example sticks to that as well. Writers can definitely "survive" with focusing on one type of tone as long as things aren't rehashed. RDR1 still had a very different story from 2 for an example and people love both. TBOGT and V could have been more serious but still very different from IV, instead they went back to the old style and you think it's because Dan Houser & co. always planned that? Not because of the backlash that we all know happened and they wanted to get back the butthurt 3D Era fans? ..lol, c'mon.

-The fact that Bulgarin suddenly disappeared in IV shows that R* completely knew what they wanted to do with EFLC far before release. R* have pointed out in many interviews that really don't like repeating things at all. That's why you see such variety even in the 3D era. It seems like you're a complete close minded person and like to view videogames from one perspective. There's nothing I can do for you other than feeling sorry. That's pretty sad. 

 

You completely Disrespect the 3D era crowd and talk as if they are some evil corporation or sth lol. You're so biased. It's pointless to argue. RDR is a different type of game. When are you gonna realize that R* unlike you know what each game is about and they like to experience different things? They think OPENLY. unlike you. 

 

Another part of your problem is the fact that you mix up gameplay with story. Are you blind? Because 90%of criticism towards IV wasn't because of the tone. It WAS BECAUSE OF THE f*ckING MISSING FEATURES from SA. this is a downgrade. And anyone with a little bit of sense realizes thay they are getting a far more simple game after waiting 4 years. IV's main problem was lack of features. Tone is a different subject. 

 

Criticism does have effect and R* listen. But it never changes the overall PLANS of a big developer. It causes tweaks. you think developers can change things based on a simple switch of a button? Dude this is a big company. You're so naive and you're overreacting. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Journey_95
39 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

-The fact that Bulgarin suddenly disappeared in IV shows that R* completely knew what they wanted to do with EFLC far before release. R* have pointed out in many interviews that really don't like repeating things at all. That's why you see such variety even in the 3D era. It seems like you're a complete close minded person and like to view videogames from one perspective. There's nothing I can do for you other than feeling sorry. That's pretty sad. 

 

You completely Disrespect the 3D era crowd and talk as if they are some evil corporation or sth lol. You're so biased. It's pointless to argue. RDR is a different type of game. When are you gonna realize that R* unlike you know what each game is about and they like to experience different things? They think OPENLY. unlike you. 

 

Another part of your problem is the fact that you mix up gameplay with story. Are you blind? Because 90%of criticism towards IV wasn't because of the tone. It WAS BECAUSE OF THE f*ckING MISSING FEATURES from SA. this is a downgrade. And anyone with a little bit of sense realizes thay they are getting a far more simple game after waiting 4 years. IV's main problem was lack of features. Tone is a different subject. 

 

Criticism does have effect and R* listen. But it never changes the overall PLANS of a big developer. It causes tweaks. you think developers can change things based on a simple switch of a button? Dude this is a big company. You're so naive and you're overreacting. 

That proves nothing and shows that your argument is weak. Of course Rockstar had some plans already regarding TBOGT (and TLAD) and it was obvious Bulgarin would be used after he was shafted in the story. That doesn't mean that Rockstar didn't change the tone and overall style because of the backlash...Bulgarin's silly behaviour in TBOGT and how disconnected that game feels from the rest of the GTA IV Saga shows that very clearly.

 

Your problem is thinking that just because something has a darker tone it's a repeat..is RDR2 a rehash of RDR1 just because it's serious and depressing at times? Nope. Almost every game in the 3D era was lighthearted and goofy. VC and SA are different games but their tone is very similiar so this again just proves my argument right. You can have a similiar tone but different type of games. Nothing

 

Lol as if you aren't biased, constantly bashing GTA IV and talking about how you were losing faith in the franchise until TBOGT, you are exactly the type of GTA fan Rockstar listened to and you refuse to admit that & think it was all part of their plan. I don't think 3D Era fans are "evil", I just disagree with them. I'm not the one taking this so seriously (like you feeling "sad" for me). 

 

No sh*t RDR is different, what's your point? It doesn't change that GTA IV was supposed to move the series into a different direction, at one point they wanted both franchises to be overall serious (RDR more so since it doesn't have the focus on satire). Also no a big part of the criticism was about how GTA IV was too serious and lost the series identity, people couldn't shut up about that and the same type praised TBOGT as the "real" GTA IV and how it should have been in the first place. And you ever wonder why some of the features were missing from SA? It's because they wanted the game to be more grounded so the story makes sense and is believable (unlike SA and then TBOGT when they added stuff back).

 

TBOGT came out more than 1 year after GTA IV, that's not changing things based on a simple switch of a button. And after it was well received, GTA V followed it's overall style and added even more elements from the 3D Era. Not hard to believe..they saw what worked for the general fanbase & what didn't & changed things accordingly. It's not like they had some serious version of GTA V written down in the first place in 2008 so yeah the overall direction can and did change based on the criticism. 

 

Only one naive here is you tbh.

 

Edited by Journey_95

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TheSantader25

@Journey_95

 

Dude you're beyond arguments. This is just so pointless. The worst part is when you spit nonsense out like it's a fact. You're so sure of yourself To the point that it's funny. I'm done arguing about different subjects with you. You never see reason and all you do is keep saying the same sh*t over and over without even bringing valid reasons.I explained what I think about IV multiple times but we're back on the same argument that I'm biased against IV. When we keep rolling in same circles and you suffer from alzheimer what's the point?  Have a good time.

Edited by TheSantader25

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Journey_95
2 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

@Journey_95

 

Dude you're beyond arguments. This is just so pointless. The worst part is when you spit nonsense out like it's a fact. You're so sure of yourself To the point that it's funny. I'm done arguing about different subjects with you. You never see reason and all you do is keep saying the same sh*t over and over without even bringing valid reasons. Have a good time. 

Says you, you are hypocritical af

Edited by Journey_95

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Cheatz/Trickz

Too right, because seriousness means meaningful, and meaningful means memorable. 

 

IV was a natural progression as I see it, GTA stories always had a hint of seriousness to them, IV simply grounded the gameplay to match. The chosen city plays a major role in the tone obviously, probably why GTA 3 is the darkest of the 3D era, but IV was like the series had grown up and GTA had become something more significant as a name. 

 

Rockstar forewent all of this for V and Online. Los Santos predicted a lighter tone, fair enough, but that didn’t have to mean stupid. And while the series has never been more financially profitable, what is it Grand Theft Auto is known for now? Oh that’s right, microtransactions. 

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