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TheSantader25

[SPOILERS] What Happened to Dutch?

What Happened to Dutch?   

84 members have voted

  1. 1. What Actually happened to Dutch?

    • He Became Who He Really Was
      44
    • He Changed
      40


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Jimbatron

Dutch is a skilled manipulator. I don’t think he genuinely cares for a lot of the group, loyalty is a concept he uses to keep the group together to achieve what he wants to achieve. It’s noticable on a number of occasions he leaves people behind once he feels he no longer has their support.

 

Probably in the early days he had plans more in line with what the group wanted so it didn’t feel like manipulation.

 

Things started to go wrong because of Micah’s malign influence - capitalising on bad luck to play on the fact Dutch was losing loyalty. Dutch is probably aware by the end that taking him too much into his confidence was his main mistake. However his manipulative nature would have always been there - when times were tough and Micah swayed him his true personality was unmasked.

Edited by Jimbatron

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Deadman2112
On 12/5/2018 at 6:33 AM, Jimbatron said:

Dutch is a skilled manipulator. I don’t think he genuinely cares for a lot of the group, loyalty is a concept he uses to keep the group together to achieve what he wants to achieve. It’s noticable on a number of occasions he leaves people behind once he feels he no longer has their support.

Couldn't agree more with this part.

If you pay close attention, Dutch plays each against the other. Presumably to get the most out of them.

...but in the end, it's all done for his own gain. It isn't until the very end that he realized his mistake, and all it cost.

 

Sad really.

 

However, too answer this definitely...

He changed.

I say that because...

 

On one occasion the old blind man says...

Your father is not the man he use to be.


And on another he says...
Your fathers been seduced by the one with the forked tongue.

Dutch has to be the father he speaks about, and the one who has the forked tongue is Micah.

 

I'd say that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt he changed. Unless R* just put that in the game ti confuse everyone.

Edited by Deadman2112

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Nutbuster3000

Dutch is obviously the good guy of the story. In every interaction you have with him troughout the main story you can tell that he cares very much for every single gang member, despite them doubting him all the time. You could also see that he had a master plan in the back of his head, but john and arthur where basically to short sighted and unintelligent to even comprehend what dutch was planning with them. One of the most beatiful aspects of the Singleplayer game for me was seeing him and micah, who showed waaaay more loyality towards dutch and the gang, coming closer together over time and forming a nice father son relationship. The manipulative nature of arthur was shown pretty often in the game and had its peak, when he told dutch his final words: "i gave you all i had". Those last words of his manipulative "friend" where the reason why the good hearted dutch jumped of a cliff years later...

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Jabalous

I don't know really. I think it's more of shades of grey over a black or white choice. 

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Cutter De Blanc

I think Milton had the right idea.

 

Dutch: This place... aint no such thing as civilized. It's man, so in love with greed he has forgotten himself, and found only appetites.

 

Milton: And as a consequence you take what you please, kill whom you please, and hang the rest of us? Who made you the messiah to these lost souls you've led so horribly astray?

 

Dutch: I'm nothing but a seeker, Mr. Milton.

 

Milton: You ain't much of anything more than a killer, Mr. Van Der Linde.

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Smokewood

The death of his wife started his change.

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GTAgamerWyald
On 12/4/2018 at 10:08 PM, Scaeva said:

I wonder if the head injury Dutch sustains in the trolley crash is partly responsible for his unraveling. It isn't mentioned again in the game and seems to play no other role in the story - so why include a head injury at all unless the devs intended for it to be a contributing factor to the version of Dutch we get in Chapter 6?

Show don't tell.

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Nutbuster3000

I guess the bang to the head simply increased his already incredibly high intellectual manufactural and cultural and hyperbolic intelligence.

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Gray-Hand

I reckon that in that last scene at Beaver Hollow where Dutch was demanding to know who was loyal to him and who was against him, if Arthur and John had moved towards Dutch’s side before Micah did, Micah would have been killed.

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Deadman2112

I guess no one read what I put in the spoiler tag in my last post.

 

Maybe you guys should read it.

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MagicNarcosis

Dutch's true persona unearthed itself over the course of time and through turmoil, bad planning and ill decision making. But why?

Who you are defines the choices you makes. 

 

He didn't "become" anything he wasn't already. 

You can put a clean coat on dirtbag, but he's still a dirtbag. 

 

That "clean coat" is the promises Dutch verbalized throughout this story, but ultimately the way Dutch chose to handle each situation and everything entirely ultimately unveiled the ill-clad Dutch and his bullsh*t. 

 

To sum it up - Real niggas do real thangs and no matter what test you face, if you a real one, you remain a real one through and through regardless. There is no "change". He wasn't for the gang to begin with, he was a manipulator and out for himself.

That's not a real Leader. "omG tHiNgS gOt cRaZy i hAvE nO cHoIce bUt tO f*ck mY pEoPLE oVErRrrr" 

FOH!!

 

 

So NO, I CAN'T sit here and say he "changed" because I personally see different.

 

That nigga left Arthur and several of his own to DIE. NO THOROUGH MAN, NOR LEADER ALLOWS THE TRIALS OF LIFE TO DIMINISH HIS LOYALTY AND IMPAIR THE QUALITY OF SURVIVAL FOR HIS OWN BROTHERHOOD. 

 

f*ck Dutch, he beenabitch omm.

Edited by MagicNarcosis

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Lock n' Stock

I do know he's a bellend, hence his last name "Bell".

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RedDadRedemption

I would just like to know what happend to dutch when he walked out into nothing but freezing snow in his bath robe at the end of the story

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BretMaverick777

To this day, I don't see Dutch as "insane" at all.   He's a leader who watched his world crumble around him, and couldn't pull himself or his people back from the brink, so his persona changed from selective benevolence to paranoia and monomania.   And no, I don't blame the downfall and breakup of the gang on Dutch at all; I blame it squarely on Micah.   Micah is a manipulator, a flatterer and a liar.   He reminds me a whole lot of Iago from Shakespeare's "Othello," the sadistic yeasayer who drives his boss insane with lies and half-truths to the point that the man no longer knows who or what to believe.  

 

The majority of the failures in RDR2 can be blamed on Dutch's people, not on Dutch himself.   He spends almost the entirety of RDR2 trying vainly to put out fires that somebody else in the gang --- including Arthur --- have unwittingly created.   And that begins with the Blackwater Botch, which is entirely Micah Bell's fault. 

 

And that's the only thing I fault in Dutch Van Der Linde:   his loyalty to Micah Bell.   And yes, in the end, that's exactly what it was --- his loyalty to Micah Bell, not the other way around.   By 1907, Dutch could have no doubt that Micah Bell had been lying to him the whole time.  That Micah Bell was the snitch who ratted him out to the Pinkertons.  That Micah Bell cared only about the big score from Blackwater and nothing else.    My take on the final showdown at the Millesani Claim was that he was relieved that John Marston (or anybody) had finally showed up to give him the excuse he needed to get out from under Micah Bell's thumb.   John's courage gave Dutch the courage he needed to do what should have been done 8 years prior.   

 

And then Dutch simply walked.   

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