Horse Permadeath Online?

[djb204]

In single player when a horse dies, it’s dead, gone, finished, etc, regardless of how much money you spent on it. When a horse died it’s DEAD. (permadeath)

 

In Online I hope permadeath returns. I hope that when horses die Online they are gone as well. That’s just me, but single player really made you care about your horse. Single player made you consider the consequences of riding your horse near steep cliffs, etc. Single player made you think of your horse before engaging in a fight (“what if my horse goes down?”). Single player encouraged us to dismount and instruct our horse to flee. Now.....

 

I fear that horses won’t have permadeath Online, which in return would change the way we treat our horses. Players would be careless, engaging in situations that we’ve all come to understand as risky for our horse. I fear the attitude and mindset of players will change resulting in reckless players damaging the Online experience for those around them.

 

I hope horse permadeath returns in RDR Online.

 

THOUGHTS?

Edited November 18, 2018 by djb204

[IamCourtney]

Permadeath is one thing in single player but Online the rules need to be adjusted for a PvP environment. Who's gonna bother investing money and bonding time in a horse when all it takes is one good head shot to undo it all?

[djb204]

24 minutes ago, IamCourtney said:

Permadeath is one thing in single player but Online the rules need to be adjusted for a PvP environment. Who's gonna bother investing money and bonding time in a horse when all it takes is one good head shot to undo it all?

Maybe we can’t kill each other’s horses Online?

 

Maybe horses buck us off when they are shot from another player and they flee?

 

Maybe horses don’t take any damage from other players?

 

OR

 

Maybe like GTA Online, the player who killed your horse gets deducted the amount of money the horse was worth? That money would then be deposited into the horse owner’s pocket so that they could purchase the same horse with upgrades again?

 

Being deducted money for killing another players horse would make players think twice about killing another players horse. That might minimize griefing.

Edited November 18, 2018 by djb204

[CrimsonFolo]

Horses need to take damage in my opinion and maybe make it so horses death isn't permadeath but maybe lowers the bond slightly when it "dies"

 

Don't think there should be an insurance kind of thing as it's the wild west and outlaws didn't really pay for killing each others horses or anything like that

[White Shark]

I wouldn't want your horse to die permanently online. You'll just get griefers going out of their way to kill everyone's horses knowing how important they are to people.

[djb204]

Horse Death needs some consequences, otherwise like I stated in the OP it would change the tone and nature of the game, especially the attitude and behaviour of the players.

[Rykjeklut]

Eeh... yes and no.

Yes because of your reasons, No because of... c*nts online.

[djb204]

1 hour ago, Rykjeklut said:

Eeh... yes and no.

Yes because of your reasons, No because of... c*nts online.

Hope Rockstar figures out a good balance. I’d didn’t give a crap about my horse in the first Red Dead. They were easily replaceable and cost me nothing. There was no consequences or loss when a horse died. I really appreciate how RDR2 gave horses more importance this time around. When a horse dies we truly lose something. I don’t want that bond to be absent in Online.

[ALifeOfMisery]

I just can't see horse permadeath being a feature of RDO. If R* want players to spend money, both in game and real via microtransactions, on horses, and they clearly do going by the trophy for owning 5 at the same time, I just can't see how they can implement horse permadeath in a multiplayer environment.

 

Horse permadeath would create a situation where no one gives a sh*t about their horse. Why would anyone spend over a grand on an Arabian in RDO when all it takes is one player with dynamite arrows waiting outside the stable to instantly cost you all that money.

 

More importantly, if horse bonding is also featured in RDO, and I hope it is, why would players go to the time and effort only to see that wasted by someone they can't even see taking out their horse with a sniper rifle for the lulz.

 

Again, for all the loss of immersion and consequence, I can't see how horse permadeath can work.

Edited November 19, 2018 by ALifeOfMisery

[Revoemag]

Have horse death,  and being killed by players,  but allow us to go get it back from stable free of charge. 

 

This opens the "consequences " of horse death (being stuck without a horse) but ...can get it back with a simple (but possibly long )trip to the stables

[R*Phenomenon]

Online Permadeath for horses would be the worst decision ever! how cant the op see this is never gonna happen?

[Jedster]

I agree... permadeath of horse is one of those things that make you care about something while playing a video game, on the other hand you have people who cannot enjoy themselves unless they kill and destroy everything you care about.

So my suggestion would be to unable other players to kill your horse or if they do, make it respawn after some cooldown nearby or in stables without loss of progress. But NPC's, animals and falls would still mean permadeath as in SP, maybe a little more forgiving... so we still get fear for horses life but not from other players.

I am really curios how they will manage to balance this mechanic.

[Gallows]

I’d like to see a bit more hardcore approach, at least an option for it, so we can keep having a sound economy, because we lose weapons, horses etc. Perhaps when a horse dies you can buy it at a discount again. Also weapons, should be more of a temporary thing, as should all inventory. You keep your level, skills and character progression when dying though. Plus you keep your wardrobe.

[Jayuk83]

This is why I think there needs to be a Day Z/Scum- esque survival mode. The majority of players aren’t interested in that specific genre but there’s a growing number of gamers who love higher stake gaming. Rockstar have already created the foundations for a survival sim to flourish, but I can’t see them giving the main game lobby those mechanics. If they have dedicated lobbies specifically for true survival the perma-death horse thing will work.

[Pocket Fox]

You get a tonne of time in SP to revive your horse if it dies... except... for that one thing... that happens 

 

I don't really want permadeath horses due to trolls, also my god...imagine it on PC.

Log in.... all your horses die from a modder.... fk!

Maybe if your horse dies it cannot come back for 1-24 hours real time. Maybe.

[djb204]

4 hours ago, R*Phenomenon said:

Online Permadeath for horses would be the worst decision ever! how cant the op see this is never gonna happen?

I can say the same thing. How can you you say it won’t ever happen? In RDR1 we had an infinite amount of horses that appeared to be waiting near by at any given time. When our horses died in RDR1 all we had to do was whistle and another horse would appear out of no where (ridiculous). In RDR1 I, like every other player didn’t give a crap about my horse. I’d jump it off cliffs, ride it into a fight guns blazing, etc. I didn’t care if it lived or died because at the back of my mind it NEVER dies. All I’d ever need to do was whistle and it resurrects again, RDR2 made us care about our horses, so all I’m saying is I hope that returns.

[ALifeOfMisery]

4 minutes ago, djb204 said:

I can say the same thing. How can you you say it won’t ever happen? In RDR1 we had an infinite amount of horses that appeared to be waiting near by at any given time. When our horses died in RDR1 all we had to do was whistle and another horse would appear out of no where (ridiculous). In RDR1 I, like every other player didn’t give a crap about my horse. I’d jump it off cliffs, ride it into a fight guns blazing, etc. I didn’t care if it lived or died because at the back of my mind it NEVER dies. All I’d ever need to do was whistle and it resurrects again, RDR2 made us care about our horses, so all I’m saying is I hope that returns.

I agree with what you say regarding RDR MP, you're right, you never had to give a sh*t about your horse, if it died, so what.

 

I'd like RDO to be as similar to RDR2 as possible. I love the gravity of situations and actions in SP. But, horse permadeath, where players are paying for horses, sometimes with real money via microtransactions, just doesn't work in a online multiplayer with PvP.

 

That's the difference between RDR MP and RDO, microtransactions. There is no way in hell R*/T2 don't want players spending real money in RDO. That gravy train will dry up real fast if the items players are spending money on can be permanently taken from them. 

 

There won't be any horse permadeath, no burning down of player owned camps or property, no losing guns you've paid to customize etc. etc. Mainly because a lot of players will tire of that experience very quickly and also because something far more important than how the game plays is at stake, money.

[R*Phenomenon]

21 minutes ago, djb204 said:

I can say the same thing. How can you you say it won’t ever happen? 

Because i dont think it will..  it would be a bad design decision imho (for the reasons mentioned above by others). 

It will be exploited and some will ONLY search for peoples horses just to piss them off and enjoy it... 

My guess will be they will somehow use horse reviver or something.. so you can knock down a horse but cant kill it completely... and have to revive it within a certain amount of time. otherwise you have to walk and it will respawn at a stables after a game day or something. purely speculation, but i guess that would work well.

Edited November 19, 2018 by R*Phenomenon

[Fatsanchez]

In RDR 1 if you got the complete version, you should have a Warhorse “bond” (I cant remember the name of the thing) which, in case your horse died, you could use (infinitely) to claim a new horse. I believe they will use this approach regarding bought horses in online, you get a “Horse-voucher” and if yours die you claim a new one back to bonding level 1. Maybe using the insurance mechanics from GTAO to try and disencourage griefing as well, who knows. But I remember someone from R* stating that “the Single player portion should set the foundation on which the Online will develop as its own thing”, so I personally cant see invincible horses or anything like that. For good and for worse I guess. Or I hope, lol.

[ALifeOfMisery]

8 minutes ago, Fatsanchez said:

In RDR 1 if you got the complete version, you should have a Warhorse “bond” (I cant remember the name of the thing) which, in case your horse died, you could use (infinitely) to claim a new horse. I believe they will use this approach regarding bought horses in online, you get a “Horse-voucher” and if yours die you claim a new one back to bonding level 1. Maybe using the insurance mechanics from GTAO to try and disencourage griefing as well, who knows. But I remember someone from R* stating that “the Single player portion should set the foundation on which the Online will develop as its own thing”, so I personally cant see invincible horses or anything like that. For good and for worse I guess. Or I hope, lol.

I think our horses will be able to die, including being killed by other players, I just cannot see it being permanent.

 

There will be some kind of mechanism where it respawns at a stable one level of bonding lower or once you've purchased a horse you can always replace it for free starting at level 1 bonding, or something like that.

 

There could even be an insurance system where the horse killer has the horses value deducted from their account like with blowing up cars in GTAO.

 

Overall though I hope the bounty system in RDO is just as punishing as in RDR2. Just as having your horse killed should have a gravity and consequence, so should killing another players horse.

 

Hopefully the PvE lobbies Fun has hinted at come to fruition, that way another player killing my horse will never be a concern for me.

Edited November 19, 2018 by ALifeOfMisery

[djb204]

12 minutes ago, Fatsanchez said:

In RDR 1 if you got the complete version, you should have a Warhorse “bond” (I cant remember the name of the thing) which, in case your horse died, you could use (infinitely) to claim a new horse. I believe they will use this approach regarding bought horses in online, you get a “Horse-voucher” and if yours die you claim a new one back to bonding level 1. Maybe using the insurance mechanics from GTAO to try and disencourage griefing as well, who knows. But I remember someone from R* stating that “the Single player portion should set the foundation on which the Online will develop as its own thing”, so I personally cant see invincible horses or anything like that. For good and for worse I guess. Or I hope, lol.

I had the full version of RDR1. I had the warhorse too. Yes there was a horse voucher for the warhorse just like every other horse in the game. You purchased horse vouchers for any breed at the general stores, but there was NO bonding. All you had to was open up your satchel and activate any horse you owned then whistle for it. 

[Fatsanchez]

Yeah I’m thinking similar but not exactly the same as RDR1. For RDR2 it would make sense that you had to visit a stable to claim a new one. And like you mentioned theres the bonding aspect now too. I personally hope they keep it “hardcore” like the single player but with methods to prevent griefing. Buts thats just my speculation anyway.

[ManassaxMauler]

I reckon they will have the same system as in GTA. Replace "mechanic" with "vet" and have whoever killed the horse pay for the medical bills. 

[Gallows]

Enemy players killing your horse is not an exploit.

 

I’d like to see horse death, so you have to find a new one. If you have bought one you can get it again. Bonding will be gone however, but you don’t have to pay for it again.

 

Also I’d like guns to just be tools, that ca be lost. When you die you should lose all equipment (except satchels, holsters and other upgrades). You respawn with a cattleman and a long gun.

[ALifeOfMisery]

3 hours ago, Gallows said:

Enemy players killing your horse is not an exploit.

I don't recall anyone in here saying it was.

 

3 hours ago, Gallows said:

I'd like to see horse death, so you have to find a new one. If you have bought one you can get it again. Bonding will be gone however, but you don’t have to pay for it again.

I've no doubt there will be horse death. But I think @ManassaxMauleris fairly close to what we'll see although bonding level might be affected. Horse permadeath in a perpetual online game that will feature microtransactions is simply a terrible idea though.

 

I think the fact that there is a trophy right out of the gate for owning 5 horses concurrently tells us horses aren't going to be commodities that can just be lost. They are there to buy and collect.

 

3 hours ago, Gallows said:

Also I’d like guns to just be tools, that ca be lost. When you die you should lose all equipment (except satchels, holsters and other upgrades). You respawn with a cattleman and a long gun.

As with horse permadeath, I just can't see guns being "tools". I expect the gun customisation from SP to feature in online and probably be expanded upon over time. Players aren't going to spend money on buying, upgrading, customising & engraving weapons only to start with a basic cattleman and rifle upon every session switch. 

 

Again, I forsee them being permanent, customisable items. I'd be surprised if there isn't some kind of weapons chest upgrade to our camp, for a price, of course, where we can customise our load out, much like the GTAO weapons safe.

 

I may be wrong, but I just don't see R* making RDO a get sniped, lose everything, hardcore survival game.

Edited November 19, 2018 by ALifeOfMisery

[Gallows]

It was mentioned further up in the thread that people would exploit horse killing.

 

Anyway, I guess I’m just somewhat tired of the safe space online gaming of today and would like to see something different, where the ingame economy could work. Economies only work, because things die, things break and things get lost. There can be no economy with permanent things.

[JauntyM]

On 11/18/2018 at 5:10 AM, djb204 said:

In single player when a horse dies, it’s dead, gone, finished, etc, regardless of how much money you spent on it. When a horse died it’s DEAD. (permadeath)

 

In Online I hope permadeath returns. I hope that when horses die Online they are gone as well. That’s just me, but single player really made you care about your horse. Single player made you consider the consequences of riding your horse near steep cliffs, etc. Single player made you think of your horse before engaging in a fight (“what if my horse goes down?”). Single player encouraged us to dismount and instruct our horse to flee. Now.....

 

I fear that horses won’t have permadeath Online, which in return would change the way we treat our horses. Players would be careless, engaging in situations that we’ve all come to understand as risky for our horse. I fear the attitude and mindset of players will change resulting in reckless players damaging the Online experience for those around them.

 

I hope horse permadeath returns in RDR Online.

 

THOUGHTS?

I think they should be insured because if someone else kills your horse then you would be able to reclaim it easily. 

[djb204]

30 minutes ago, JauntyM said:

I think they should be insured because if someone else kills your horse then you would be able to reclaim it easily. 

Permadeath could work if the death was the owners fault. If another player kills your horse then yes it should be recoverable free of charge, or like GTA Online (at the killer’s expense)

[ALifeOfMisery]

6 hours ago, Gallows said:

It was mentioned further up in the thread that people would exploit horse killing

It will be. I'll almost guarantee that within a week of RDO being live there are exploits galore over at the sinful place. 

 

There will be duping, killing without paying insurance, give horse to friends.

 

6 hours ago, Gallows said:

safe space 

Not getting into this. It's too often used negatively or dismissively. 

[Gallows]

31 minutes ago, ALifeOfMisery said:

It will be. I'll almost guarantee that within a week of RDO being live there are exploits galore over at the sinful place. 

 

There will be duping, killing without paying insurance, give horse to friends.

 

Not getting into this. It's too often used negatively or dismissively. 

As I said shooting another players horse is not an exploit. Of course other exploits will exist until fixed.

 

Safe space gaming was meant as a negative. It has made gaming very dull. Risk/reward is a good mechanic. Today it’s just reward/REWARD.