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RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 - "Chronological" Mission Order


Spydr Webz
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5 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

Working out that Strauss cutscene has automatically ordered about half of the Chapter 2 missions. Blessed, Mary plot, Pouring Forth Oil Plot, Downes debt collection, Fisher of Men, Pastoral Scene and the final two missions - all nicely sorted. We’re just left with:

  • Without Sin
  • Polite Society
  • Americans At Rest
  • First Shall be Last
  • Exit, Pursued
  • Social Call
  • Money Lending I & II
  • Snake Oil
  • Spines of America
  • Quiet Time

Then a couple of companion activities, but using the shire knowledge, I think Chapter 2 can finally be cracked.

 

 

At least until the next piece of game-changing evidence comes out.

Pretty ez actually:

Without a sin is the first mission cuz it is pretty simple and should be removed from our way asap, try to avoid the shire tho

 

Americans at rest and first shall be last both happens outside the camp, and then Sean's party despawn the shire

 

Money Lending is the last lead hosea gave to us and it also despawn the shire, so it should come right after

 

Exit Pursued can pretty much placed here cuz then the "I want to take a break of this place" line kinda makes sense and we could say that Hosea called arthur while he was going to collect Downes debt

 

I would recommend you to go back with hosea to camp and do paying a social call to spawn Mary's letter and to unlock the spines of america when you go back

Snake oil could be placed right after paying a social call or right after the last Mary's mission cuz then you spawn on Valentine

 

You may do spines of america before a quiet time cuz then Hosea doesn't keep waiting for you for days on emerald ranch and you can start a quiet time right after going back to camp with hosea

17 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

Working out that Strauss cutscene has automatically ordered about half of the Chapter 2 missions. Blessed, Mary plot, Pouring Forth Oil Plot, Downes debt collection, Fisher of Men, Pastoral Scene and the final two missions - all nicely sorted. We’re just left with:

  • Without Sin
  • Polite Society
  • Americans At Rest
  • First Shall be Last
  • Exit, Pursued
  • Social Call
  • Money Lending I & II
  • Snake Oil
  • Spines of America
  • Quiet Time

 

A couple of notes:

  • A Quiet Time should come last out of that list, since it’s the transition from the first half of the chapter to the second - it unlocks Blessed, after which the letter is read.
  • I really think there should be something to grab Arthur’s attention after completing Money Lending II, to stop him from visiting Downes. Exit might work, but during the Strauss cutscene Arthur says he’s had a lot on, so it doesn’t really seem to fit that he’d been out hunting instead of collecting the final debt.

 

Then a couple of companion activities, but using the shire knowledge, I think Chapter 2 can finally be cracked.

 

At least until the next piece of game-changing evidence comes out.

Btw how are the other mission nicely sorted? I still didn't saw the order you guys decided to put them in

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1 minute ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Here's a spanner in the works for you regarding Companion Activities:-

 

There is dialogue in Chapter 3 which suggests that Javier's Home Robbery happens in Chapter 3 after his fishing activity rather than Chapter 2

 

Even if you do Javier's Home Robbery in Chapter 2 later on in Chapter 3 during Javier's fishing Activity, Arthur says to Javier "Been a while since we rode out just you and me" and Javier replies "Probably since we went looking for John on the mountain". Again he says this even if you have done his Home Robbery before the fishing trip (1:13 mark) :-

 

 

 

Yeah, I remember this discussion. The chapter 3 evidence is as you’ve stated, and the chapter 2 evidence is that Javier heard about it in Valentine. There’s also the cough, but again that could be TB or a dusty barn.

 

Honestly, I think the “last time we rode out” line is just an oversight, and it makes more sense to do it in chapter 2 however I understand that the line is very jarring and the line about the “local bogeymen” is less so.

 

Then there’s the question of when to do it in chapter 2: there’s a space between Pastoral Scene and Fisher of Men that needs filling (so that Arthur doesn’t say “it’s getting late” at around 12:00), but Charles is away preparing for the train robbery, so hunting is out, and it feels strange to do a coach robbery, home robbery AND train robbery all on the same day. I take it you advocate for Javier’s robbery in chapter 3?

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7 minutes ago, GokuDosGames said:

Who's not Without a Sin

Americans at Rest

----------------------------------------

The First Shall be Last

(Sean's party)

----------------------------------------

Money Lending and Other Sins I, II & III

----------------------------------------

Polite Society, Valentine Style

Exit, Pursued by a Bruised Ego

----------------------------------------

Paying a Social Call

Good Honest Snake Oil

The Spines of America

A Quiet Time

----------------------------------------

Blessed are the Meek?

We Loved One and True I

Pouring Forth Oil I & II

----------------------------------------

We Loved Once and True II & III

----------------------------------------

Pouring Forth Oil III

An American Pastoral Scene

A Fisher of Men

Pouring Forth Oil IV

----------------------------------------

The Sheep and the Goats

A Strange Kindness

 

@jimmyoneshot what do you think dude?

Looks decent man. One thing I don't like is doing Americans At Rest on the same day after Without Sin because Without Sin ends at 5:30pm so by the time you get to Valentine it is late evening or almost night yet if you look at how the saloon and the town is set up during the mission it is clearly meant to be midday i.e. the town is busy, the shopkeepers are out which means the shops were still open, the saloon itself is much quieter than it as night during Quiet Time etc.

 

I'm gonna try out an order based on what we've been talking about today when I finish work tomorrow.

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5 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Looks decent man. One thing I don't like is doing Americans At Rest on the same day after Without Sin because Without Sin ends at 5:30pm so by the time you get to Valentine it is late evening or almost night yet if you look at how the saloon and the town is set up during the mission it is clearly meant to be midday i.e. the town is busy, the shopkeepers are out which means the shops were still open, the saloon itself is much quieter than it as night during Quiet Time etc.

 

I'm gonna try out an order based on what we've been talking about today when I finish work tomorrow.

The problem with Without Sin is that ai can't fit it anywhere else, Americans at Rest leads directly towards The First Shall be Last, and on Sean's party Swanson is supposed to be there already, while I do agree we can Americans at rest is supposed to be a midday mission, I can't understand why would arthur be ready and go after swanson instead of taking the chance to go with the boys to blackwater

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2 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

I take it you advocate for Javier’s robbery in chapter 3?

Ye. Recently I have been putting it in Chapter 3 after Preaching Forgiveness because it seems to be a night mission. Some reasonings:-

  • The dialogue mentioned above
  • When you do Sean's Home Robbery in Chapter 3 some tutorial messages show up which indicate that this is the first home robbery we are meant to do in the game and Sean says "there have to be other places out there like this". The messages even show up if Javier's mission has been done before.
  • The cough although some say could be chalked up to dust doesn't affect Javier and I think when we see something in the game it is best to take it at face value.
  • Javier's starting point for this mission in Chapter 2 stupidly overlaps with John's one for Pouring Forth Oil. It's like they just put him in a random spot in camp to make the mission optional in this Chapter 2 as an afterthought
  • The payout is pretty big for Chapter 2.
  • Javier says "it's up North on the other side of the river from Valentine". During Chapter 2 the gang technically are up North and are down South in Chapter 3 but this may just mean that he means further up north
  • He also says "the best way there is through Cumberland Falls though" which is strange because the actual fastest route there whether in Chapter 2 or 3 is straight through Valentine so this may be because he knows the gang are wanted in Valentine so to take the long way around.
9 minutes ago, GokuDosGames said:

The problem with Without Sin is that ai can't fit it anywhere else, Americans at Rest leads directly towards The First Shall be Last, and on Sean's party Swanson is supposed to be there already, while I do agree we can Americans at rest is supposed to be a midday mission, I can't understand why would arthur be ready and go after swanson instead of taking the chance to go with the boys to blackwater

It is because Dutch says "join them when you're ready" and the mission takes a few in game hours to unlock anyway so after Americans At Rest I go back to camp and Grimshaw approaches and tells me about Lenny and Micah scouting West, then I get changed, go for Swanson, sleep and catch up with them the next day.

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10 minutes ago, GokuDosGames said:

The problem with Without Sin is that ai can't fit it anywhere else, Americans at Rest leads directly towards The First Shall be Last, and on Sean's party Swanson is supposed to be there already, while I do agree we can Americans at rest is supposed to be a midday mission, I can't understand why would arthur be ready and go after swanson instead of taking the chance to go with the boys to blackwater

I have a feeling that a mission like "Who is Not Without Sin" was made much later in development compared to a mission like "Americans at Rest." I do agree with you, though, story wise it should be the first mission and there are some missions that had their times changed after the trailers. For example... Pouring Forth Oil IV was done during the day, in trailers, but was switched to night time only. I'm not sure if this thread is about finding a chronological order of story events or the order that Rockstar originally made. If it's the latter then I think we can just look at the official guide. Does anyone have the exact order of missions in it?

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17 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Ye. Recently I have been putting it in Chapter 3 after Preaching Forgiveness because it seems to be a night mission. Some reasonings:-

  • The dialogue mentioned above
  • When you do Sean's Home Robbery in Chapter 3 some tutorial messages show up which indicate that this is the first home robbery we are meant to do in the game and Sean says "there have to be other places out there like this". The messages even show up if Javier's mission has been done before.
  • The cough although some say could be chalked up to dust doesn't affect Javier and I think when we see something in the game it is best to take it at face value.
  • Javier's starting point for this mission in Chapter 2 stupidly overlaps with John's one for Pouring Forth Oil. It's like they just put him in a random spot in camp to make the mission optional in this Chapter 2 as an afterthought
  • The payout is pretty big for Chapter 2.
  • Javier says "it's up North on the other side of the river from Valentine". During Chapter 2 the gang technically are up North and are down South in Chapter 3 but this may just mean that he means further up north
  • He also says "the best way there is through Cumberland Falls though" which is strange because the actual fastest route there whether in Chapter 2 or 3 is straight through Valentine so this may be because he knows the gang are wanted in Valentine so to take the long way around.

It is because Dutch says "join them when you're ready" and the mission takes a few in game hours to unlock anyway so after Americans At Rest I go back to camp and Grimshaw approaches and tells me about Lenny and Micah scouting West, then I get changed, go for Swanson, sleep and catch up with them the next day.

I don't agree that Javier's home robbery is a Chapter 3 one. It's best fit for Chapter 2.

 

However you made some good points.

 

But your point on the payout has to be the worst, considering what you get from Micah's stagecoach mission and the train robbery in the same chapter.

Edited by Dan_1983
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2 minutes ago, SoulSurj said:

I have a feeling that a mission like "Who is Not Without Sin" was made much later in development compared to a mission like "Americans at Rest." I do agree with you, though, story wise it should be the first mission and there are some missions that had their times changed after the trailers. For example... Pouring Forth Oil IV was done during the day, in trailers, but was switched to night time only. I'm not sure if this thread is about finding a chronological order of story events or the order that Rockstar originally made. If it's the latter then I think we can just look at the official guide. Does anyone have the exact order of missions in it?

Here’s the official guide order:

 

  • Polite Society, Valentine Style
  • Americans at Rest
  • Who is Not Without Sin?
  • The First Shall be Last
  • Paying a Social Call
  • Money Lending and Other Sind I-II
  • A Quiet Time
  • Exit, Pursued by a Bruised Ego
  • Money Lending and Other Sind III
  • Blessed are the Meek?
  • We Loved Once and True I-III
  • Good, Honest Snake Oil
  • The Spines of America
  • Pouring Forth Oil I-IV
  • An American Pastoral Scene
  • A Fisher of Men
  • The Sheep and the Goats
  • A Strange Kindness
19 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

 

  • When you do Sean's Home Robbery in Chapter 3 some tutorial messages show up which indicate that this is the first home robbery we are meant to do in the game and Sean says "there have to be other places out there like this". The messages even show up if Javier's mission has been done before.

I really like this point. Again, it seems like an oversight, but when there are two oversights that suggest it should be done in chapter 3, maybe they’re not oversights after all. I think this is another of the “moved around in development” missions, originally written to come after Fishing and Sean’s robbery and made available earlier but without a change in dialogue/tooltips. 

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Ok so I just found out that the ppl in the camp actually mentions swanson on the end of without sins I did Americans at Rest and wasted some time traveling and doing some random encounters and then gone to without sin, when I was on the camp dutch was already there and he said something like "arthur drop this fool on his bed" or something like this I didn't heard well, also if you do Americans at rest and then directly do without sins dutch won't be in the camp

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8 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

I think we can assume that it is entirely a bug based on the tests but also that any missions where the horse doesn't appear should be dome before Exit and any missions where it does should be done after with the exception of Social Call in which case Arthur's horse spawns where it usually is which indicates they expected that to come after Exit.

 

So in no order I'd say:-

 

Before Exit Pursued

Polite Society

Money Lending And Other Sins 1 - 2

"Money Lending and Other Sins I" spawns in the horse, but it disappears when you leave and go back to camp. It seems like another "Mr. Downes and the boys in Polite Society Valentine Style" case, where the mission spawns in character models but gets rid of them if they're not supposed to be there. So, "Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego" should take place before "Money Lending and Other Sins."

Edited by SoulSurj
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Here are just some notes on ordering the remaining 10 missions.
 

These are the 10:

Spoiler
  • Americans At Rest
  • Who is Not Without Sin?
  • The First Shall be Last
  • Polite Society, Valentine Style
  • Good, Honest Snake Oil
  • Money Lending and Other Sins I-II
  • Exit, Pursued by a Bruised Ego
  • Paying a Social Call
  • The Spines of America
  • A Quiet Time

 

  • Americans at Rest as the first mission works quite well, I hate to say. You can start with Without Sin, but then the next day you need more missions to do so that you don’t go to the saloon at 7 in the morning. You could do Polite Society and At Rest on the first day, but then it’s a real rush to collect Swanson around 17:00. Doing Americans at Rest first, then getting a bath and heading out to rescue Swanson, before finally getting prepared in camp and heading out for Sean works really well.
  • If you do Polite Society, Americans at Rest, and Without Sin on the first day, you need something new to fill the half-day after Sean’s party. Maybe Snake Oil?
  • The last mission of the ten should be A Quiet Time, since this leads into rescuing Micah and the second half of the chapter.
  • Either Social Call or Money Lending should be completed near the end of the list so that the letter doesn’t spawn too early and risks Arthur seeing it.
  • After completing Money Lending II, you need something to distract Arthur from going after Downes. At first I thought A Quiet Time would work here, because Dutch shouts Arthur over and getting Lenny drunk takes priority over Downes. However, I don’t think this leaves enough time for the Strauss cutscene to spawn, so something else needs to distract him.
  • And that something else is likely to be Exit, Pursued. It’s the only other mission that involves someone shouting him, and originally it was meant to unlock as soon as Money Lending II was completed (if all other business had been as well), so that fits quite well. 
  • So I’m thinking Polite Society after Sean’s party, then Money Lending the next day and Exit when you return to camp. The next again day, Social Call first (while Arthur is getting breakfast), then return to camp, receive Grimshaw’s message and head out to Emerald Ranch for Spines. Day approach, return with Hosea, and finally A Quiet Time. The only thing that’s missing is Snake Oil. I’m not sure quite where to put it.
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2 hours ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

Here are just some notes on ordering the remaining 10 missions.
 

These are the 10:

  Hide contents
  • Americans At Rest
  • Who is Not Without Sin?
  • The First Shall be Last
  • Polite Society, Valentine Style
  • Good, Honest Snake Oil
  • Money Lending and Other Sins I-II
  • Exit, Pursued by a Bruised Ego
  • Paying a Social Call
  • The Spines of America
  • A Quiet Time

 

  • Americans at Rest as the first mission works quite well, I hate to say. You can start with Without Sin, but then the next day you need more missions to do so that you don’t go to the saloon at 7 in the morning. You could do Polite Society and At Rest on the first day, but then it’s a real rush to collect Swanson around 17:00. Doing Americans at Rest first, then getting a bath and heading out to rescue Swanson, before finally getting prepared in camp and heading out for Sean works really well.
  • If you do Polite Society, Americans at Rest, and Without Sin on the first day, you need something new to fill the half-day after Sean’s party. Maybe Snake Oil?
  • The last mission of the ten should be A Quiet Time, since this leads into rescuing Micah and the second half of the chapter.
  • Either Social Call or Money Lending should be completed near the end of the list so that the letter doesn’t spawn too early and risks Arthur seeing it.
  • After completing Money Lending II, you need something to distract Arthur from going after Downes. At first I thought A Quiet Time would work here, because Dutch shouts Arthur over and getting Lenny drunk takes priority over Downes. However, I don’t think this leaves enough time for the Strauss cutscene to spawn, so something else needs to distract him.
  • And that something else is likely to be Exit, Pursued. It’s the only other mission that involves someone shouting him, and originally it was meant to unlock as soon as Money Lending II was completed (if all other business had been as well), so that fits quite well. 
  • So I’m thinking Polite Society after Sean’s party, then Money Lending the next day and Exit when you return to camp. The next again day, Social Call first (while Arthur is getting breakfast), then return to camp, receive Grimshaw’s message and head out to Emerald Ranch for Spines. Day approach, return with Hosea, and finally A Quiet Time. The only thing that’s missing is Snake Oil. I’m not sure quite where to put it.

You can put Snake Oilol right after Social Call imo, or after we loved once and true iii

Edited by GokuDosGames
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56 minutes ago, GokuDosGames said:

You can put Snake Oilol right after Social Call imo, or after we loved once and true iii

Yeah, that sounds good. After Social Call there might not be enough time to do Snake Oil, Spines and Quiet Time in a single day, but after We Loved Once and True III works pretty well since we’re in Valentine and Arthur might be in the mood for something honourable after spending time with Mary.

Also you were looking for a second half of Chapter 2 list so here’s what I think:

 

[M] Blessed are the Meek?

<Finish just after midnight then camp until morning and ride back to Horseshoe>
- - - - -

[Letter] We Loved Once and True I

[LS] Money Lending and Other Sins III

<Grimshaw approaches about John looking for you>
[J] Pouring Forth Oil I

[J] Pouring Forth Oil II

[ML] We Loved Once and True II-III

[Bounty] Good, Honest Snake Oil

<Sleep in Valentine>
- - - - -

[J] Pouring Forth Oil III

[M] An American Pastoral Scene

[A] A Fisher of Men

[J] Pouring Forth Oil IV

- - - - -

[C] Hunting - Charles

<Just to kill time before meeting John in Valentine. I still think Pastoral Scene fits better here but there’s that newspaper article>
[J] The Sheep and the Goats

[D] A Strange Kindness

 

 

If you have any questions about that order just ask.

Edited by JonnyTNT7
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3 hours ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

Here are just some notes on ordering the remaining 10 missions.
 

These are the 10:

  Reveal hidden contents
  • Americans At Rest
  • Who is Not Without Sin?
  • The First Shall be Last
  • Polite Society, Valentine Style
  • Good, Honest Snake Oil
  • Money Lending and Other Sins I-II
  • Exit, Pursued by a Bruised Ego
  • Paying a Social Call
  • The Spines of America
  • A Quiet Time

 

  • Americans at Rest as the first mission works quite well, I hate to say. You can start with Without Sin, but then the next day you need more missions to do so that you don’t go to the saloon at 7 in the morning. You could do Polite Society and At Rest on the first day, but then it’s a real rush to collect Swanson around 17:00. Doing Americans at Rest first, then getting a bath and heading out to rescue Swanson, before finally getting prepared in camp and heading out for Sean works really well.
  • If you do Polite Society, Americans at Rest, and Without Sin on the first day, you need something new to fill the half-day after Sean’s party. Maybe Snake Oil?
  • The last mission of the ten should be A Quiet Time, since this leads into rescuing Micah and the second half of the chapter.
  • Either Social Call or Money Lending should be completed near the end of the list so that the letter doesn’t spawn too early and risks Arthur seeing it.
  • After completing Money Lending II, you need something to distract Arthur from going after Downes. At first I thought A Quiet Time would work here, because Dutch shouts Arthur over and getting Lenny drunk takes priority over Downes. However, I don’t think this leaves enough time for the Strauss cutscene to spawn, so something else needs to distract him.
  • And that something else is likely to be Exit, Pursued. It’s the only other mission that involves someone shouting him, and originally it was meant to unlock as soon as Money Lending II was completed (if all other business had been as well), so that fits quite well. 
  • So I’m thinking Polite Society after Sean’s party, then Money Lending the next day and Exit when you return to camp. The next again day, Social Call first (while Arthur is getting breakfast), then return to camp, receive Grimshaw’s message and head out to Emerald Ranch for Spines. Day approach, return with Hosea, and finally A Quiet Time. The only thing that’s missing is Snake Oil. I’m not sure quite where to put it.

A couple of things I noticed yesterday:-

  • If after Sean's Party you start Polite Society after 1pm after waking up from Sean's party time goes relatively quickly and it finishes at about 5pm or just after so when you get back to camp it is about 6pm or so. You'd have to try this to see what I mean. The reason why this feels better than returning earlier is because people in camp seem to have 2 'modes' - day mode and night mode. Night mode seems to start at 6pm at which point chores also become disabled. During day mode Uncle has some scripted conversations that cancel out being able to talk to him about what happened in Valentine - the one where he is sitting there and shouts Arthur over saying "Hey Arthur" and the one where he is reading the paper angry about the war with the Philippines. Dutch also doesn't seem to approach about Money Lending after 6pm.
  • I feel that Exit Pursued straight after Money Lending 1 - 2 fits really well because it is the only actual story mission left after we do the usual 5 missions (At Rest, Without Sin, First Shall Be Last, Polite Society, Money Lending 1 - 2) and it explains why Arthur would 'need a break' more the anything else. So I thought about Snake Oil before ML&OS 1 - 2. I haven't tried this in a while but I tried fitting Snake Oil, Money Lending 1 - 2 and then Exit Pursued into one day. The reason being Exit Pursued is meant to be an evening mission and if you start it early in the day time gets set to 5pm as soon as you enter the Stables. It seems too much to do all this in one day because even by rushing and literally doing only Snake Oil and Money Lending 1 - 2 and ignoring everything else it was still almost 6pm - 7pm by the time I got back to camp. Plus I think if Arthur was going to do Snake Oil he would mooch around town first as it is the first time he is there without an actual mission being there.

For the above reasons I'm thinking that only the following is really feasible:-

 

- Americans At Rest

- Who Is Not Without Sin

------------------------------------------

- First Shall Be The Last

- [ Sean's Party ]

- ( Sleep until noon )

------------------------------------------

- Polite Society Valentine Style ( start after 1pm )

------------------------------------------

- Money Lending and Other Sins 1 - 2

- Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego

 

I'm wondering if it is possible to fit in Charles Hunting, Snake Oil (sell the pelt in Valentine and then do this) and Spines the day after Exit Pursued perhaps while still having Spines in the daytime. I will test that later after work

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There are a few oversight or things that don't make sense in game but you intend to ignore them. 

 

For instance, despite her house and everything being burned down - Sadie can afford new clothes, guns, and a Turkomen horse at the start of Chapter 3.

 

This game is brilliant but we don't need an explanation for every single thing and we'll never find the perfect chronological order, but we'll do our best.

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8 minutes ago, Dan_1983 said:

There are a few oversight or things that don't make sense in game but you intend to ignore them. 

 

For instance, despite her house and everything being burned down - Sadie can afford new clothes, guns, and a Turkomen horse at the start of Chapter 3.

 

This game is brilliant but we don't need an explanation for every single thing and we'll never find the perfect chronological order, but we'll do our best.

Plot holes will ever exist

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One thing that I don't think I've mentioned about Social Call is that time slows right down during it and it doesn't go past 5:30pm if you start it before that and the strange thing is time also stays slowed down until you get back to camp after that mission. You guys can check it out to see what I mean. It feels like they did this intentionally so that it can always go directly before Quiet Time because Social Call directly unlocks Quiet Time and once it is started time speeds up a bit and then it stops time at 7pm until you get to the saloon with Lenny.

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42 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

 

 

I'm wondering if it is possible to fit in Charles Hunting, Snake Oil (sell the pelt in Valentine and then do this) and Spines the day after Exit Pursued perhaps while still having Spines in the daytime. I will test that later after work

I agree completely with that list so far. The problem with Charles Hunting after Exit is that the last time I tested it, when I returned with Hosea hunting wasn’t available until 12 noon. This means you have to waste the morning in camp before it unlocks, and there certainly won’t be time for Snake Oil and day approach in Spines.

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51 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

I agree completely with that list so far. The problem with Charles Hunting after Exit is that the last time I tested it, when I returned with Hosea hunting wasn’t available until 12 noon. This means you have to waste the morning in camp before it unlocks, and there certainly won’t be time for Snake Oil and day approach in Spines.

If you stay behind and kill the bear and sell it's pelt, by the time you get to camp, it will be early afternoon.

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1 hour ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

I agree completely with that list so far. The problem with Charles Hunting after Exit is that the last time I tested it, when I returned with Hosea hunting wasn’t available until 12 noon. This means you have to waste the morning in camp before it unlocks, and there certainly won’t be time for Snake Oil and day approach in Spines.

I've actually had it appear as soon as I return to camp with Hosea most of the time. This is the problem with the randomness of Gang activities though, so unreliable. Sometimes the person in question is on guard duty, involved in a camp activity or sleeping.

 

I think we need to go with the flow after Exit Pursued which means that Grimshaw will approach us for Spines the next time we leave and return to camp after returning from Exit and I think doing Snake Oil after Quiet Time would be crazy considering Arthur has been embarrassingly arrested there. And as we know returning to camp with the Bison Pelt can cause Grimshaw to glitch and not tell you about Spines so we need to account for that too. So we need a reason to leave and return to camp to trigger Spines.

 

So the only choices we really have after exit are a combination of Charles Hunting, Snake Oil and Spines before we start Social Call and Quiet Time so :-

Spoiler

 

- Snake Oil

- ( Grimshaw tells us about Spines )

- Charles Hunting

- Spines (this could possibly start at night which means we'd have to choose the wait until morning option during it)

 

OR

 

- Snake Oil

- ( Grimshaw tells us about Spines )

- Spines

- Charles Hunting (maybe do this the following morning OR on the same day as above at night which fits the way the hunters are settling down to rest it seems)

 

OR

 

- Charles Hunting

- Snake Oil

- ( Grimshaw tells us about Spines )

- Spines (this could possibly start at night which means we'd have to choose the wait until morning option during it)

 

 

I'll test it out when I finish work today and will update you all here though.

11 minutes ago, Dan_1983 said:

If you stay behind and kill the bear and sell it's pelt, by the time you get to camp, it will be early afternoon.

I can never decide on this. I always used to hunt it but I know a while back me and you (I think) said we thought it seemed like returning with Hosea felt better because he is shaken and Arthur never mentions successfully hunting the bear to Hosea or even in his journal etc and we get the extra little cutscene where Arthur rides back and speaks with Hosea. If I'm doing a 100% playthrough though I always hunt it though.

Edited by jimmyoneshot
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14 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

I've actually had it appear as soon as I return to camp with Hosea most of the time. This is the problem with the randomness of Gang activities though, so unreliable. Sometimes the person in question is on guard duty, involved in a camp activity or sleeping.

 

I think we need to go with the flow after Exit Pursued which means that Grimshaw will approach us for Spines the next time we leave and return to camp after returning from Exit and I think doing Snake Oil after Quiet Time would be crazy considering Arthur has been embarrassingly arrested there. And as we know returning to camp with the Bison Pelt can cause Grimshaw to glitch and not tell you about Spines so we need to account for that too. So we need a reason to leave and return to camp to trigger Spines.

 

So the only choices we really have after exit are a combination of Charles Hunting, Snake Oil and Spines before we start Social Call and Quiet Time so :-

  Hide contents

 

- Snake Oil

- ( Grimshaw tells us about Spines )

- Charles Hunting

- Spines (this could possibly start at night which means we'd have to choose the wait until morning option during it)

 

OR

 

- Snake Oil

- ( Grimshaw tells us about Spines )

- Spines

- Charles Hunting (maybe do this the following morning OR on the same day as above at night which fits the way the hunters are settling down to rest it seems)

 

OR

 

- Charles Hunting

- Snake Oil

- ( Grimshaw tells us about Spines )

- Spines (this could possibly start at night which means we'd have to choose the wait until morning option during it)

 

 

I'll test it out when I finish work today and will update you all here though.

I can never decide on this. I always used to hunt it but I know a while back me and you (I think) said we thought it seemed like returning with Hosea felt better because he is shaken and Arthur never mentions successfully hunting the bear to Hosea or even in his journal etc and we get the extra little cutscene where Arthur rides back and speaks with Hosea. If I'm doing a 100% playthrough though I always hunt it though.

I don’t like that third option because like I say, during my only test Charles was on guard duty until noon, so that wouldn’t have worked for me. I don’t think an order should rely on randomness.

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16 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

I don’t like that third option because like I say, during my only test Charles was on guard duty until noon, so that wouldn’t have worked for me. I don’t think an order should rely on randomness.

True. One thing I also don't like is starting Social Call too early because Bill is usually sleeping until 9am which is why I usually do Snake Oil on the same day before it. We could possibly do Charles Hunting late on and camp overnight before returning the next morning giving Bill time to wake up.

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What’s the general consensus on how long to leave Spines after Exit Pursued? Realistically, Hosea would have to find Emerald Ranch, meet Seamus, then somehow send a message to Grimshaw. (Unless he gave her the message just before he left, while Arthur was away, which admittedly makes more sense). So does doing it on the same day as Exit finishes seem reasonable? Or is that too soon.

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52 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

I've actually had it appear as soon as I return to camp with Hosea most of the time. This is the problem with the randomness of Gang activities though, so unreliable. Sometimes the person in question is on guard duty, involved in a camp activity or sleeping.

 

I think we need to go with the flow after Exit Pursued which means that Grimshaw will approach us for Spines the next time we leave and return to camp after returning from Exit and I think doing Snake Oil after Quiet Time would be crazy considering Arthur has been embarrassingly arrested there. And as we know returning to camp with the Bison Pelt can cause Grimshaw to glitch and not tell you about Spines so we need to account for that too. So we need a reason to leave and return to camp to trigger Spines.

 

So the only choices we really have after exit are a combination of Charles Hunting, Snake Oil and Spines before we start Social Call and Quiet Time so :-

  Reveal hidden contents

 

- Snake Oil

- ( Grimshaw tells us about Spines )

- Charles Hunting

- Spines (this could possibly start at night which means we'd have to choose the wait until morning option during it)

 

OR

 

- Snake Oil

- ( Grimshaw tells us about Spines )

- Spines

- Charles Hunting (maybe do this the following morning OR on the same day as above at night which fits the way the hunters are settling down to rest it seems)

 

OR

 

- Charles Hunting

- Snake Oil

- ( Grimshaw tells us about Spines )

- Spines (this could possibly start at night which means we'd have to choose the wait until morning option during it)

 

 

I'll test it out when I finish work today and will update you all here though.

I can never decide on this. I always used to hunt it but I know a while back me and you (I think) said we thought it seemed like returning with Hosea felt better because he is shaken and Arthur never mentions successfully hunting the bear to Hosea or even in his journal etc and we get the extra little cutscene where Arthur rides back and speaks with Hosea. If I'm doing a 100% playthrough though I always hunt it though.

I usually hunt it later in Chapter 2 when I need more big game meat.

 

It's why I love Chapter 4, endless supply of big game meat nearby lol

 

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3 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

What’s the general consensus on how long to leave Spines after Exit Pursued? Realistically, Hosea would have to find Emerald Ranch, meet Seamus, then somehow send a message to Grimshaw. (Unless he gave her the message just before he left, while Arthur was away, which admittedly makes more sense). So does doing it on the same day as Exit finishes seem reasonable? Or is that too soon.

When you return with Hosea he says something like "I'm probably going to head out to Emerald Ranch soon" and Grimshaw says that Hosea said he was "looking at a few business deals there" or something like that so the same day does fit quite well.

Edited by jimmyoneshot
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7 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

What’s the general consensus on how long to leave Spines after Exit Pursued? Realistically, Hosea would have to find Emerald Ranch, meet Seamus, then somehow send a message to Grimshaw. (Unless he gave her the message just before he left, while Arthur was away, which admittedly makes more sense). So does doing it on the same day as Exit finishes seem reasonable? Or is that too soon.

I usually arrive back with Hosea, put some money in camp funds, go out nearby camp and hunt for food. However I usually skin a few animals as bringing in a full carcass causes a glitch where Grimshaw doesn't approach you about Hosea at Emerald Ranch.

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Forgive me if this junks up the thread, but is the first post still viable? I'm about to do my 4th playthrough and try to clean up two achievements so I wanna make sure I get this right. And I see that this thread is not only 2 years old and 88 pages long, but still very active.

 

So tldr; Should I follow the OP or is there an updated version somewhere within these 88 pages that's more current and that I'd be better off following?

 

Forgive me if this is too much of a non sequitur and derails the convo. If so, I'm happy to delete this post.

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31 minutes ago, stash3630 said:

Forgive me if this junks up the thread, but is the first post still viable? I'm about to do my 4th playthrough and try to clean up two achievements so I wanna make sure I get this right. And I see that this thread is not only 2 years old and 88 pages long, but still very active.

 

So tldr; Should I follow the OP or is there an updated version somewhere within these 88 pages that's more current and that I'd be better off following?

 

Forgive me if this is too much of a non sequitur and derails the convo. If so, I'm happy to delete this post.

Everyone else seems be away just now, so I’ll answer you alone. Honestly, I still like the original order. It was written based on a single play through, with the intention of creating a logical and coherent narrative. Since then, there has been much debate and new information, with seemingly-set-in-stone placements being overturned by easy-to-miss factors like lip synch issues and horse hitching locations. I think the most recent (and complete) order available is @jimmyoneshot’s, which I have copied and enclosed in the spoiler tags below. It contains only the main mission, gang activities, and honour missions for simplification purposes. When you say you want to clean up two achievements, which are you after? If they involve something to do with 100%, you’d be better off using one of the 100% orders. Simply to experience the story, though, I quite like the one enclosed.

 

Also, note that it is not complete. We have recently discovered a secret Strauss cutscene in chapter 2, as well as some inconsistencies with the black shire horse you sell during Exit, Pursued by a Bruised Ego. We are very nearly done! So chapter 2 will soon be revamped slightly, although I think the rest of the chapters are fairly robust.
 

The order below takes into account as much dialogue as possible, and this leads to some fairly odd-looking placements. So I think the original order still plays well, but this is the most up-to-date version (to my knowledge).

 

[All credit for this order to Jimmyoneshot]

Spoiler

CHAPTER 1

 

- Outlaws From The West
- Enter, Pursued By A Memory
---------------------------------------
- The Aftermath of Genesis
- Old Friends
---------------------------------------
- Who The Hell Is Leviticus Cornwall?
---------------------------------------
- Eastward Bound

 

CHAPTER 2

 

- Americans At Rest
- Who Is Not Without Sin
---------------------------------------
- First Shall Be The Last
---------------------------------------
- Polite Society Valentine Style
---------------------------------------
- Money Lending and Other Sins 1 - 3
---------------------------------------
- Good Honest Snake Oil
- Paying A Social Call
- A Quiet Time
---------------------------------------
- Blessed Are The Meek
- Exit Purused By A Bruised Ego (Return with Hosea)
---------------------------------------
- < Charles - Hunting >
- ( Sell Bison Pelt in Valentine )
- ( *Grimshaw approaches to tell you about Spines Of America )
- < Lenny - Five Finger Fillet >
- Spines of America (Return with Hosea)
- ( *Grimshaw approaches to tell you about We Loved Once and True )
- We Loved Once and True 1
---------------------------------------
- We Loved Once and True 2 - 3
- ( Stay in hotel overnight )
---------------------------------------
- Pouring Forth Oil 1 - 2
- American Pastoral Scene
- Pouring Forth Oil 3
- Fisher Of Men
- Pouring Forth Oil 4
---------------------------------------
- Sheep and the Goats
- ( Camp out overnight )
---------------------------------------
- Strange Kindness

 

CHAPTER 3

 

- The New South
- Further Questions Of Female Suffrage (Visit Butcher to waste time on way back from post office and return after 8pm)
- < Micah - Five Finger Fillet >
- < Money Lending And Other Sins 4 - Cutscene>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Money Lending And Other Sins IV - Gwyn Hughes >
- American Distillation
- < Tilly - Dominoes >
- < Javier - Fishing >
- An Honest Mistake
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Sean - Home Robbery >
- The Course Of True Love 1 - 2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Kieran - Fishing >
- The Course Of True Love 3
- Advertising, The New American Art 1 - 2
- The Fine Joys Of Tobacco
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Horse Flesh For Dinner
- Preaching Forgiveness As He Went
- < Javier - Home Robbery >
- ( Camp overnight )
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Magicians For Sport
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Friends In Very Low Places
- < Sean - Coach Robbery >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Money Lending And Other Sins 4 - Winton Holmes >
- < Hector - Coach Robbery 1 >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Sodom? Back To Gomorrah
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Alden - Coach Robbery 1 >
- < Bill - Coach Robbery >
- Blessed Are The Peacemakers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- A Short Walk In A Pretty Town
- Blood Feuds, Ancient And Modern
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- The Battle Of Shady Belle

 

CHAPTER 4

 

- The Joys Of Civilization
- Angelo Bronte A Man Of Honor
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Fatherhood and Other Dreams 1 >
- < Help A Brother Out >
- < Fatherhood And Other Dreams 2 >
- < Uncle - Rustling >
- ( Camp until noon )
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- No, No and Thrice No
- < Charles - Bank Robbery >
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ( Sell horse from No, No and Thrice No or keep it and sell your old one )
- < Brothers And Sisters One And All >
- < Lenny - Coach Robbery >
- < Pearson - Hunting >
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Gilded Cage
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- American Fathers 1
- Fine Night of Debauchery
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Micah - Coach Robbery >
- Horsemen Apocalypses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Urban Pleasures
- American Fathers 2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Country Pursuits
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
< Money Lending and Other Sins 4 >
- Revenge is a Dish Best Eaten
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Banking The Old American Art

 

CHAPTER 5

 

- Welcome to the New World
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Savagery Unleashed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- A Kind and Benevolent Despot
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Hell Hath No Fury
- Paradise Mercifully Departed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Dear Uncle Tacitus
- Fleeting Joy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- A Fork in the Road
- Icarus and Friends
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- That’s Murfree Country

 

CHAPTER 6

 

- ( Sell/stable horse from Dear Uncle Tacitus at Van Horn Stables or keep it and sell/stable your old one )
- Visiting Hours
- Just A Social Call
- < Widow of Willard's Rest 1 >
- < The Course of True Love 4 (Read Letter) >
- Rage Unleashed
------------------------------------------
- Archaeology For Beginners
------------------------------------------
- < The Veteran 1 >
- Honor Amongst Thieves
- < Of Men and Angels >
- Goodbye Dear Friend
- (time seems to go overnight here until Arthur arrives at camp the next day)
------------------------------------------
- Fine Art of Conversation
- ( Camp until morning )
------------------------------------------
- < The Course of True Love 5 >
- Favored Sons
------------------------------------------
- King's Son
------------------------------------------
- Delights Of Van Horn
- < Widow of Willard's Rest 2 >
- < The Veteran 2 >
- Bridge To Nowhere
- ( Camp until morning )
------------------------------------------
- ( Cleet and Joe appear in camp here )
- < Money Lending and Other Sins 6 >
- < Money Lending and Other Sins 6 - J John Weathers >
- < Money Lending and Other Sins 6 - Arthur Londonderry  >
- < Money Lending and Other Sins 7 >
------------------------------------------
- < Do Not Seek Absolution 1 >
- < The Veteran 3 >
- ( Sell wolf pelt from The Veteran 3 at Trapper )
------------------------------------------
- < Do Not Seek Absolution 2 >
- Mrs Sadie Adler Widow 1
------------------------------------------
- Mrs Sadie Adler Widow 2
- < The Veteran 4 >
- ( Sell/stable your old horse at Van Horn Stables because you now have Buell )
- < Widow of Willard's Rest 3 >
- My Last Boy
------------------------------------------
- Our Best Selves
- Red Dead Redemption

 

EPILOGUE

 

- The Wheel
--------------------------------------------------
- Simple Pleasures
--------------------------------------------------
- Fatherhood For Beginners
--------------------------------------------------
- Farming For Beginners
- Old Habits
--------------------------------------------------
- Jim Milton Rides, Again
--------------------------------------------------
- Fatherhood For Idiots
--------------------------------------------------
- Motherhood
--------------------------------------------------
- The Landowning Classes
- Home of The Gentry
--------------------------------------------------
- Gainful Employment
- (Camp overnight)
--------------------------------------------------
- Bare Knuckle Friendships
- Home Improvement For Beginners
- An Honest Day's Labors
- (Sleep in Blackwater hotel until morning)
--------------------------------------------------
- The Tool Box
--------------------------------------------------
- A New Jerusalem
--------------------------------------------------
- A Quick Favor For An Old Friend
--------------------------------------------------
- Uncle's Bad Day
--------------------------------------------------
- A Really Big Bastard
- Trying Again
--------------------------------------------------
- A New Future Imagined
--------------------------------------------------
- American Venom

 

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With regards to completing the Chapter 2 order, shouldn’t Snake Oil come before Exit? Wasn’t it established that both Snake Oil and Money Lending should be completed first so that there is enough money for a decent horse? If so, the most natural spot for it seems straight after Polite Society. Also, what does everyone do with the stolen horse if they play Polite Society after Sean’s party?

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