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RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 - "Chronological" Mission Order


Spydr Webz
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Just now, Dan_1983 said:

Have any of you guys come across a random encounter in Valentine at night where a guy asks Arthur if he can rob his friend at the hotel and split the money?

Yep. Then he turns up in the hotel room? I sometimes just hang around places day and night to see what encounters turn up ha.

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7 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Yep. Then he turns up in the hotel room? I sometimes just hang around places day and night to see what encounters turn up ha.

Same. I got another at night in Valentine where a man was threatening his girlfriend near the auction yard. Arthur of course intervened and then tackled and pummeled him because the guy pulls out a knife.

 

Also you sometimes get an old looking O'Driscoll heckling at you when you go into town. I antagonize him to the point he attacks and I usually beat him up too.

 

I love fighting in this game lol.

Edited by Dan_1983
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3 minutes ago, Dan_1983 said:

Have any of you guys come across a random encounter in Valentine at night where a guy asks Arthur if he can rob his friend at the hotel and split the money?

Yup, I split the money, bad choice, just keep the money

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I just found out that you don't even have to wait for "The First Shall Be Last" to show up on the map. You can just head over to the mission area right after "American's at Rest" and watch Charles and Javier's character models spawn in.

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Also if you guys find a drunken driver that crashed the wagon and asks for you to look for his things while he goes to get help, ACCEPT and WAIT THERE, he'll give you a golden bar

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4 minutes ago, GokuDosGames said:

Also if you guys find a drunken driver that crashed the wagon and asks for you to look for his things while he goes to get help, ACCEPT and WAIT THERE, he'll give you a golden bar

Really? I usually loot his lockbox for the Valerian root lol.

6 minutes ago, SoulSurj said:

I just found out that you don't even have to wait for "The First Shall Be Last" to show up on the map. You can just head over to the mission area right after "American's at Rest" and watch Charles and Javier's character models spawn in.

Yes by the time you make your way towards there it unlocks. Plus you'll deal with a couple of random encounters along the way too, so they will take up a bit of time.

 

There's always one O'Driscoll ambush that needs dealing with lol.

Edited by Dan_1983
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5 minutes ago, GokuDosGames said:

Also if you guys find a drunken driver that crashed the wagon and asks for you to look for his things while he goes to get help, ACCEPT and WAIT THERE, he'll give you a golden bar

I used him for the “drag somebody behind you” horseman challenge, oops.

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Just did a test, the horse also doesn't show up on Money Lending and Other Sins III

Although it may mean that Money Lending and Other Sins III happens after Exit, Pursued, idk

So the horse won't show up even after the mission ending if my horse is tied where the exit, Pursued horse should be

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43 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

I’ve started doing one myself and am almost done. I’m testing

  • Polite Society
  • Without Sin
  • Social Call
  • Money Lending
  • Quiet Time
  • Fisher of Men
  • Strauss Cutscene (to see if it’s in the background)

Quick question... Do you finish "Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego" before playing through these missions? I'm asking because sometimes character models will stay in the hub world until you make it pass a cutscene. If you play through missions that start at camp, before playing through "Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego," the game might just leave the horse there or take it out depending on where Hosea is because he triggers the mission. Even Sean's party doesn't leave the horse in camp, probably because no missions are active at that point. It's probably the same with stranger missions, so I don't think its best to look too deeply into the characters in the hub world. I don't think the horse matters in the grand scheme of things, when it comes to the story, but good luck.

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33 minutes ago, SoulSurj said:

Quick question... Do you finish "Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego" before playing through these missions? I'm asking because sometimes character models will stay in the hub world until you make it pass a cutscene. If you play through missions that start at camp, before playing through "Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego," the game might just leave the horse there or take it out depending on where Hosea is because he triggers the mission. Even Sean's party doesn't leave the horse in camp, probably because no missions are active at that point. It's probably the same with stranger missions, so I don't think its best to look too deeply into the characters in the hub world. I don't think the horse matters in the grand scheme of things, when it comes to the story, but good luck.

I’ve not done Exit, Pursued yet so that the horse is still in camp. The idea is that by checking which missions keep the horse spawned - like A Quiet Time, when you mount up with Lenny - and which ones don’t - like Paying a Social Call, when the horse is nowhere to be seen - we can work out where Exit Pursued should go. I’m about to post my findings.

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3 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

I’ve not done Exit, Pursued yet so that the horse is still in camp. The idea is that by checking which missions keep the horse spawned - like A Quiet Time, when you mount up with Lenny - and which ones don’t - like Paying a Social Call, when the horse is nowhere to be seen - we can work out where Exit Pursued should go. I’m about to post my findings.

I've been checking it too out of curiosity so if there are any differences I'll let you know 👍

Edited by jimmyoneshot
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List of missions which take place in camp


Polite Society - No horse

Without Sin - No horse (though the horse spawns immediately after the mission finishes)

Social Call - No horse (Arthur’s horse is in its place)

Money Lending I-III - No horse in any of the parts (including returning with the debts) except for the Strauss cutscene, where it is there. It’s not there upon returning from Downes, however.
A Quiet Time - Present. Beside Arthur’s horse.
Pouring Forth Oil - It can be seen in the background of the cutscene, but this may not be intentional.

A Fisher of Men - Present. In front of its hitching post for some strange reason.

 

[Also did you know there’s an alternative cutscene for Fisher of Men? If you do it at night, some of the lines are different, and Arthur says “I’ll take him out in the morning”. You then sleep and proceed as normal.]

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On 12/28/2018 at 5:35 PM, jimmyoneshot said:

Here's my revised and pretty much final list for Chapter 2. I haven't included the stranger missions, secondary bounty missions etc to simplify it:-

  1. Polite Society, Valentine Style
  2. Americans at Rest
  3. Who is Not Without Sin
  4. The First Shall be The Last
  5. Money Lending and Other Sins I, II and III
  6. Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego
  7. Spines of America
  8. Paying a Social Call
  9. Good Honest Snake Oil
  10. We Loved Once and True I, II and III
  11. A Quiet Time
  12. Blessed Are The Meek
  13. Pouring Forth Oil I, II and III
  14. A Fisher Of Men
  15. Pouring Forth Oil IV
  16. An American Pastoral Scene
  17. The Sheep and The Goats
  18. A Strange Kindness

Here are my reasons/justifications for this order:-

 

- You could do 'Who is Not Without Sin' first however I've noticed that during/when you complete this mission time fast forwards to and pauses at 5pm until you rescue Swanson from the train, even if you go there at 7am and skip the poker game. This means that by the time you drop off Swanson back at camp and get to Valentine it will be night and when you have the fight with Tommy in Valentine it is pretty clearly meant to be day because the saloon is nowhere near as buzzing as it is at night during 'A Quiet Time' and the street is packed with people going about their daily business during the fight with Tommy. You could sleep at camp after dropping off Swanson and go the next day but this means that the gang have been waiting in the saloon overnight which seems silly.

 

- Plus another thing I noticed is that during the fight in 'Who is Not Without Sin' there is no tutorial on how to fight the guy whereas there is in the fight during 'Americans At Rest' meaning that mission was likely meant to be the intro to fighting with 'Who is Not Without Sin' following it.

 

- This means that 'Polite Society, Valentine Style' should be done first as the dialogue seems to suggest that this is an intro to the nearby town of Valentine and buying stuff from stores etc

 

- It makes sense to do 'Americans At Rest' next as it is just around the corner when you finish the first mission

 

- At this point you likely won't have a horse so I usually walk to camp and sleep overnight. This means that you are leaving Javier and Charles waiting but when you finally get to them you will see they have a tent with some used beds in it meaning they have been there for a while anyway. Plus in some dialogue that you can choose to ask to Hosea if you do 'Exit Purused By A Bruised Ego' at this point Arthur says that they are "Scouting Blackwater" and that he should catch up with them soon meaning they could be left to camp there for a while no problem

 

- You could do 'Who is Not Without Sin' after 'The First Shall Be The Last' however the problem with this is that Swanson is AT SEAN'S PARTY which means he must've been brought back to camp before that mission. I have tried doing this mission on the way back from rescuing Sean but doing that causes Sean's party to simply not happen at all which is likely not canon. So I do that next before rescuing Sean the next day

 

- When you wake up the day after Sean's party if you hang around camp for a bit Dutch says to Arthur that he needs him to help out Strauss with his money lending which means this is likely meant to be next

 

- Another reason is that you need the money from this mission to be able to afford the American Standardbred horse in 'Exit Pursued by A Bruised'. You can buy the Morgan horse but Hosea basically laughs at you if you do and you'll notice that in the cutscene after you buy it the horse shrinks. It's like as though Arthur is meant to be sitting on one of the normal horses and then when the cutscene ends he shrinks down to a Morgan sized one. Hard to explain but if you try it you'll see what I mean. The cutscene is fine as long as you buy the standardbred at least

 

- Also during 'Spines of America' when at Emerald Ranch Hosea tells Arthur to lead the way and says that Arthur is the one who's been "gallivanting around here". He says this no matter what but the only time Arthur would've been to emerald ranch in a gang related story mission is during 'Money Lending and Other Sins' which means this must've been done before this mission and 'Exit Pursued by A Bruised' because that leads right into this mission

 

- It seems that 'Money Lending an Other Sins I, II and III' should all be done consecutively too because when Arthur gets back to camp after Part 2 Strauss approaches him and asks him how he got on and gives him the next part at which point Arthur walks away as if he's going to do it right now

 

- Originally I thought 'Paying a Social Call' should be done next but one thing I noticed is that when that mission starts Arthur's horse is hitched in the hitching spot where Hosea's big Shire horse normally is. The only reason this horse would no longer be there is if the mission 'Exit Pursued by A Bruised' was already done which seems to be what this suggests which is partly why I do that next

 

- Another reason is that after you do 'Paying A Social Call', this triggers Arthur getting the letter from Mary which he would likely address right away and during that mission ('We Loved Once and True') Mary says that Jamie is "somewhere near Carmody Dell" and Arthur knows where this is. The only time he would've been to Carmody Dell in the main story is during 'Spines of America' as that is where most of it takes place. So this suggests that Hosea's 2 missions should come before Paying A Social Call

 

- After doing 'Paying A Social Call' you head right back through Valentine to camp so this is a great time to explore the town and do 'Good Honest Snake Oil' because all of Arthur's main priorities have been done at this point

 

- By the time you get back to camp it you will have the letter from Mary so her mission gets done next

 

- Doing 'Blessed Are The Meek' straight after 'A Quiet Time' is obvious because Micah is about to be hanged plus Arthur seems to speak to Dutch every day, who is the person that starts this mission thread

 

- Pouring Forth Oil I, II and III next because some time needs to pass before 'An American Pastoral Scene' unlocks so they are the only mission/s available at this point

 

- A 'Fisher of Men' MUST be done BEFORE 'Pouring Forth Oil IV' because at the end of that mission Arthur talks about how the Pinkertons found him when he was fishing with Jack which wouldn't make sense if he hadn't done this yet

 

- 'The Sheep and The Goats' needs some time to unlock so it's best to do 'An American Pastoral Scene' next before it

 

- The rest is obvious

 

*NOTE - I always noticed that During 'Exit Pursued by a bruised ego' Arthur asks Hosea has he managed to offload the cornwall bonds yet. I originally thought this was meant to mean that this mission comes after 'A Quiet Time', at the start of which Arthur asks Dutch if they've sold the bonds and Dutch says "not yet. But Hosea's working on it" but the way Dutch says it is like as though Hosea is STILL working on it rather than this being the first time he lets Arthur know that Hosea is the one selling them. It is more likely that Arthur knows that Hosea would be the one handling the bonds to begin with as that's his area of expertise plus he's Dutch's right hand man so asks him about it. Plus it would also be a hell of a long time to leave Hosea sitting there in camp especially for a mission which acts as a basic hunting, camping and horse tutorial.

Yeah right final list

12 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

List of missions which take place in camp


Polite Society - No horse

Without Sin - No horse (though the horse spawns immediately after the mission finishes)

Social Call - No horse (Arthur’s horse is in its place)

Money Lending I-III - No horse in any of the parts (including returning with the debts) except for the Strauss cutscene, where it is there. It’s not there upon returning from Downes, however.
A Quiet Time - Present. Beside Arthur’s horse.
Pouring Forth Oil - It can be seen in the background of the cutscene, but this may not be intentional.

A Fisher of Men - Present. In front of its hitching post for some strange reason.

 

[Also did you know there’s an alternative cutscene for Fisher of Men? If you do it at night, some of the lines are different, and Arthur says “I’ll take him out in the morning”. You then sleep and proceed as normal.]

Funny, on the official guide Exit Pursued is in between A Quiet Time (where the horse is present) and Money Lending and Other Sins III (where it isn't anymore) now, find out which mission is listed right before A Quiet Time? Yup Money Lending and Other Sins I & II (where the horse shows up in the cutscene) ladies and gentlemen, looks like we found out the original place for exit, pursued, it was actually right in front of us

Edited by GokuDosGames
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7 minutes ago, GokuDosGames said:

Yeah right final list

Funny, on the official guide Exit Pursued is in between A Quiet Time (where the horse is present) and Money Lending and Other Sins III (where it isn't anymore) now, find out which mission is listed right before A Quiet Time? Yup Money Lending and Other Sims I & II (where the horse shows up in the cutscene) ladies and gentlemen, looks like we found out the original place for exit, pursued, it was actually right in front of us

So does that mean the original place for Polite Society is as the first mission before Americans at Rest? 😂

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2 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

So does that mean the original place for Polite Society is as the first mission before Americans at Rest? 😂

An issue is the horse doesn't seem to be present during Sean's party.

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3 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

An issue is the horse doesn't seem to be present during Sean's party.

That fits with the conclusion that Exit wasn’t supposed to unlock until after the initial leads, including Sean’s rescue and party, but it is a shame for the version of the game we have.

 

There’s no way around it, I don’t think. Just unlocking Sean’s rescue will spawn the horse, unless Arthur hasn’t visited camp yet and so wouldn’t have seen it yet?

Edited by JonnyTNT7
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1 minute ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

That fits with the conclusion that Exit wasn’t supposed to unlock until after the initial leads, including Sean’s rescue and party, but it is a shame for the version of the game we have.

Actually yes. You're right. I don't know what I was thinking for a second there haha.

 

So we can technically class that as First Shall Be The Last.

Edited by jimmyoneshot
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7 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

So does that mean the original place for Polite Society is as the first mission before Americans at Rest? 😂

Maybe

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1 minute ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Actually yes. You're right. I don't know what I was thinking for a second there haha.

 

So we can technically class that as First Shall Be The Last.

We can indeed. Do you think it’s possible to make an order where Arthur never actually sees the shire until after Sean’s party? It would be straight into Valentine and don’t return to camp until after Sean, but when would you get Swanson?

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9 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

We can indeed. Do you think it’s possible to make an order where Arthur never actually sees the shire until after Sean’s party? It would be straight into Valentine and don’t return to camp until after Sean, but when would you get Swanson?

It's impossible

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8 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

We can indeed. Do you think it’s possible to make an order where Arthur never actually sees the shire until after Sean’s party? It would be straight into Valentine and don’t return to camp until after Sean, but when would you get Swanson?

No, I managed to get that order, you can't get Swanson and the horse will spawn back if you leave and load the save file.

 

American's at Rest

(Horse spawns, so avoid camp)

The First Shall Be Last

(Sean's party, so the horse despawns)

Save/Load

(Horse spawns back in camp)

 

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20 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

We can indeed. Do you think it’s possible to make an order where Arthur never actually sees the shire until after Sean’s party? It would be straight into Valentine and don’t return to camp until after Sean, but when would you get Swanson?

Kind of but I'm actually more interested in the opposite. What I mean is your test shows that as long as Exit Pursued has been unlocked but not completed:-

 

- the horse is always visible in 'Open Play' i.e. outside of actual missions

- the horse is not visible during certain missions which take place partly in camp but is visible in others which take place partly in camp

 

This proves the theory that a few of us had that Exit Pursued was brought forward because otherwise why would they go to the lengths of making the horse appear in some missions and not others?

 

It seems clear from this that Rockstar:-

  1. Had an original order where Exit Pursued was likely unlocked later but for any missions that came after Exit Pursued they included the horse in camp in case the player didn't do Exit Pursued beforehand
  2. They decided to offer horses as a pre-purchase/ultimate edition/special edition bonus
  3. They realised that they needed to make Exit Pursued available ASAP in Chapter 2 so that people who bought horses could access them early and so made it available after any 1 mission is done. They couldn't do this right away of course because Hosea literally talks to you at the start of Chapter 2 so it unlocking right after Hosea's conversation with Arthur would be ridiculous
  4. They forgot to add in the horse to the missions that were originally before Exit Pursued unlocked 

 

So well done 👍

Edited by jimmyoneshot
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The best I can create is:

 

Who's not without a Sin?

Americans at Rest

----------------------------------------

The First Shall be Last

(Sean's party)

----------------------------------------

Money Lending and Other Sins I & II

Exit, Pursued by a Bruised Ego

----------------------------------------

Money Lending and Other Sins III

Paying a Social Call

Polite Society, Valentine Style

----------------------------------------

The Spines of America

We Loved Once and True I

Pouring Forth Oil I & II

----------------------------------------

We Loved One and True II & III

----------------------------------------

Good Honest Snake Oil

A Quiet Time

----------------------------------------

Blessed are the Meek

Pouring Forth Oil III

----------------------------------------

An American Pastoral Scene

A Fisher of Men

Pouring Forth Oil IV

----------------------------------------

The Sheep and the Goats

A Strange Kindness

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3 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

 

This proves the theory that a few of us had that Exit Pursued was brought forward because otherwise why would they go to the lengths of making the horse appear in some missions and not others? 

So, where do we go from here? Do we pretend they added the shire into missions like Money Lending and Polite Society since we know it’s an oversight and they should be there? Or do we stick with the game as it is and do Exit earlier (this will never be perfect because of Sean’s party [among other things] but it makes sense in that it fixes the appearing and disappearing bug)?

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1 minute ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

So, where do we go from here? Do we pretend they added the shire into missions like Money Lending and Polite Society since we know it’s an oversight and they should be there? Or do we stick with the game as it is and do Exit earlier (this will never be perfect because of Sean’s party [among other things] but it makes sense in that it fixes the appearing and disappearing bug)?

I think we can assume that it is entirely a bug based on the tests but also that any missions where the horse doesn't appear should be dome before Exit and any missions where it does should be done after with the exception of Social Call in which case Arthur's horse spawns where it usually is which indicates they expected that to come after Exit.

 

So in no order I'd say:-

 

Before Exit Pursued

Polite Society

Money Lending And Other Sins 1 - 2

Without Sin

First Shall Be The Last

 

After Exit Pursued

Social Call

Quiet Time

Pouring Forth Oil

A Fisher of Men

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5 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

I think we can assume that it is entirely a bug based on the tests but also that any missions where the horse doesn't appear should be dome before Exit and any missions where it does should be done after with the exception of Social Call in which case Arthur's horse spawns where it usually is which indicates they expected that to come after Exit.

 

So in no order I'd say:-

 

Before Exit Pursued

Polite Society

Money Lending And Other Sins 1 - 2

Without Sin

First Shall Be The Last

 

After Exit Pursued

Social Call

Quiet Time

Pouring Forth Oil

A Fisher of Men

Looks good to me. I’d also put Money Lending III down as after Exit Pursued, since doing Social Call is needed for the letter to spawn.

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14 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

I think we can assume that it is entirely a bug based on the tests but also that any missions where the horse doesn't appear should be dome before Exit and any missions where it does should be done after with the exception of Social Call in which case Arthur's horse spawns where it usually is which indicates they expected that to come after Exit.

 

So in no order I'd say:-

 

Before Exit Pursued

Polite Society

Money Lending And Other Sins 1 - 2

Without Sin

First Shall Be The Last

 

After Exit Pursued

Social Call

Quiet Time

Pouring Forth Oil

A Fisher of Men

I'll test some orders

18 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

I think we can assume that it is entirely a bug based on the tests but also that any missions where the horse doesn't appear should be dome before Exit and any missions where it does should be done after with the exception of Social Call in which case Arthur's horse spawns where it usually is which indicates they expected that to come after Exit.

 

So in no order I'd say:-

 

Before Exit Pursued

Polite Society

Money Lending And Other Sins 1 - 2

Without Sin

First Shall Be The Last

 

After Exit Pursued

Social Call

Quiet Time

Pouring Forth Oil

A Fisher of Men

The fact that on the money lending II cutscene the horse is there it proofs that exit would be unlocked after completing all the leads given by hosea and that money lending ii would unlock it, following basic logic we can assume that without sin should be completed before money Lending

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Working out that Strauss cutscene has automatically ordered about half of the Chapter 2 missions. Blessed, Mary plot, Pouring Forth Oil Plot, Downes debt collection, Fisher of Men, Pastoral Scene and the final two missions - all nicely sorted. We’re just left with:

  • Without Sin
  • Polite Society
  • Americans At Rest
  • First Shall be Last
  • Exit, Pursued
  • Social Call
  • Money Lending I & II
  • Snake Oil
  • Spines of America
  • Quiet Time

 

A couple of notes:

  • A Quiet Time should come last out of that list, since it’s the transition from the first half of the chapter to the second - it unlocks Blessed, after which the letter is read.
  • I really think there should be something to grab Arthur’s attention after completing Money Lending II, to stop him from visiting Downes. Exit might work, but during the Strauss cutscene Arthur says he’s had a lot on, so it doesn’t really seem to fit that he’d been out hunting instead of collecting the final debt.

 

Then a couple of companion activities, but using the shire knowledge, I think Chapter 2 can finally be cracked.

 

At least until the next piece of game-changing evidence comes out.

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Who's not Without a Sin

Americans at Rest

----------------------------------------

The First Shall be Last

(Sean's party)

----------------------------------------

Money Lending and Other Sins I, II & III

----------------------------------------

Polite Society, Valentine Style

Exit, Pursued by a Bruised Ego

----------------------------------------

Paying a Social Call

Good Honest Snake Oil

The Spines of America

A Quiet Time

----------------------------------------

Blessed are the Meek?

We Loved One and True I

Pouring Forth Oil I & II

----------------------------------------

We Loved Once and True II & III

----------------------------------------

Pouring Forth Oil III

An American Pastoral Scene

A Fisher of Men

Pouring Forth Oil IV

----------------------------------------

The Sheep and the Goats

A Strange Kindness

 

@jimmyoneshot what do you think dude?

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1 minute ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

Working out that Strauss cutscene has automatically ordered about half of the Chapter 2 missions. Blessed, Mary plot, Pouring Forth Oil Plot, Downes debt collection, Fisher of Men, Pastoral Scene and the final two missions - all nicely sorted. We’re just left with:

  • Without Sin
  • Polite Society
  • Americans At Rest
  • First Shall be Last
  • Exit, Pursued
  • Social Call
  • Money Lending I & II
  • Snake Oil
  • Spines of America
  • Quiet Time

Then a couple of companion activities, but using the shire knowledge, I think Chapter 2 can finally be cracked.

 

 

At least until the next piece of game-changing evidence comes out.

Here's a spanner in the works for you regarding Companion Activities:-

 

There is dialogue in Chapter 3 which suggests that Javier's Home Robbery happens in Chapter 3 after his fishing activity rather than Chapter 2

 

Even if you do Javier's Home Robbery in Chapter 2 later on in Chapter 3 during Javier's fishing Activity, Arthur says to Javier "Been a while since we rode out just you and me" and Javier replies "Probably since we went looking for John on the mountain". Again he says this even if you have done his Home Robbery before the fishing trip (1:13 mark) :-

 

 

 

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