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RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 - "Chronological" Mission Order


Spydr Webz
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2 minutes ago, GokuDosGames said:

He has nothing more to do AND dutch said to

When does Dutch tell him? Is it in a random camp dialogue? The only time I can think of when someone mentions seeing Micah is Micah himself at the end of Blessed.

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11 minutes ago, GokuDosGames said:

He has nothing more to do AND dutch said to

Btw main argument about Americans at rest being a good intro mission, it shows how savage the Valentine ppl are, polite society may be a good intro to the town, but Americans at rest is a good intro to the ppl that live there, if you hear what they say while you fight tommy you'll see how savage they are and hypocritical too, after Americans at Rest there's no reason to go back till polite society so that's the reason why polite society is a good intro to the town

Dutch did not tell Arthur to go and see Micah at his camp and do AAPS.

 

He only told Arthur to rescue him from jail.

 

We all agreed on here months ago that AAPS should come before PFO IV because a newspaper article about the train robbery states that someone tipped off the law. The only people who know about the train robbery are those in camp and the only person with loose lips is Micah.

Edited by Dan_1983
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5 hours ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

Thats how I arrived at my conclusion. Since SoA doesn’t impact it at all, I didn’t think Exit would have affected the tests either, but like I say it might be better to be sure.

Cheers Jonny. Good tests. I've actually noticed it seems to be linked to completing Exit Pursued crazily enough. I'm gonna try this now:-

 

- Americans At Rest (Unlocks ML + OS and Social Call)

- ML + OS 1 -2

- Social Call

- Exit Pursued

- TEST CUTSCENE

 

I think when I work it into my full order I will basically have every mission doable at that point done at the cutscene point except Mary's letter and ML&OS 3. The only thing I don't like about it is that once we finish ML&OS 3 Grimshaw usually tells us about John wanting to speak to us. By this time it is usually evening or almost night yet during PFO 1 John says he has to head into town to get the supplies and that he has to "head into town for Abigail anyway" which seems strange at night. I prefer triggering PFO 1 in the morning.

Edited by jimmyoneshot
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9 minutes ago, Dan_1983 said:

Dutch did not tell Arthur to go and see Micah at his camp and do AAPS.

 

He only told Arthur to rescue him from jail.

 

We all agreed on here months ago that AAPS should come before PFO IV because a newspaper article about the train robbery states that someone tipped off the law. The only people who know about the train robbery are those in camp and the only person with loose lips is Micah.

Also, doing AAPS before A Fisher of Men foreshadows Micah's betrayal

Guys no matter what order you do Arthur will still say the Let's Go line if you replay Polite Society, does that mean it is indeed an intro mission at least on rockstar script?

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1 minute ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Cheers Jonny. Good tests. I've actually noticed it seems to be linked to completing Exit Pursued crazily enough. I'm gonna try this now:-

 

- Americans At Rest (Unlocks ML + OS and Social Call)

- ML + OS 1 -2

- Social Call

- Exit Pursued

- TEST CUTSCENE

 

I think when I work it into my full order I will basically have everything done at the cutscene point except Mary's letter and ML&OS 3. The only thing I don't like about it is that once we finish ML&OS 3 Grimshaw usually tells us about John wanting to speak to us. By this time it is usually evening or almost night yet during PFO 1 John says he has to head into town to get the supplies and that he has to "head into town for Abigail anyway" which seems strange at night. I prefer triggering PFO 1 in the morning.

I think the reason it seems like it’s linked to Exit Pursued is the fact that it relies upon around two-in game days passing, which Exit does. But it’s always good to test these things.

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1 minute ago, GokuDosGames said:

Also, doing AAPS before A Fisher of Men foreshadows Micah's betrayal

Yes it does. I think he was ratting all along and Milton lied to Arthur about when he became informant. He did that to split the gang up so they'd be easier to pick off individually.

 

Micah's snitching and the gang's sloppiness led to their downfall. They couldn't lay low no matter where they were and Dutch loved chaos.

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2 minutes ago, Dan_1983 said:

Yes it does. I think he was ratting all along and Milton lied to Arthur about when he became informant. He did that to split the gang up so they'd be easier to pick off individually.

 

Micah's snitching and the gang's sloppiness led to their downfall. They couldn't lay low no matter where they were and Dutch loved chaos.

Or maybe milton didn't lied but actually he just knew it was Micah after chapter 5, probably Micah was sending letters or informants like Joe and Cleet to tell milton and the pinkertons the gang's secrets

Edited by GokuDosGames
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6 hours ago, Dan_1983 said:

It is canon. You can read the letter and the cutscene won't come up and it doesn't feel quite impactful. I think the letter has to be the last and only thing available to trigger the cutscene. I usually do it after Blessed are the Meek which comes a bit late in my Chapter 2.

 

Reminder of Mary makes Arthur emotional and a bit sad which means Thomas Downes is in for pure hell lol.

 

I can't stand the little git myself. He stuck his nose in where it wasn't wanted with Arthur and Tonmy and took on a huge debt, hoping his disease would take him first before he has to pay it back. What's even worse he coughed blood purposely into a man's face knowing he could affect him. Not the little do gooder he comes across.

Yep and especially when you listen to what Arthur is saying as he is beating Downes up. The other debtors cough up the money after a slight bit of persuasion but Arthur is really pissed off in this case which only really makes sense if Strauss has really driven it home that Downes is being persistent.

3 hours ago, GinsengElixir said:

How are these unpopular opinions? This is how I always do it, exactly as you wrote, and it works perfectly 👌 

I'm unsure on the John retrieving the oil wagon one because it seems hard to trigger. I did a quick test yesterday by activating PFO 1 and then ignoring that while going and doing We Loved Once and True 2 - 3 but PFO 2 (getting the wagon) was still available.

 

Do you have any set way of triggering it Ginseng?

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3 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Yep and especially when you listen to what Arthur is saying as he is beating Downes up. The other debtors cough up the money after a slight bit of persuasion but Arthur is really pissed off in this case which only really makes sense if Strauss has really driven it home that Downes is being persistent.

All you do is threaten and not hit Wrobel, lasso Chick very quickly lol, and beat up Cooper (he deserves it as it's really him who borrowed the money through his gf) so Lily coughs up lol. I love fighting in this game. In my current playthrough, I'm halfway through Chapter 2 and have beaten up half of Valentine already lol.

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1 minute ago, Dan_1983 said:

All you do is threaten and not hit Wrobel, lasso Chick very quickly lol, and beat up Cooper (he deserves it as it's really him who borrowed the money through his gf) so Lily coughs up lol. I love fighting in this game. In my current playthrough, I'm halfway through Chapter 2 and have beaten up half of Valentine already lol.

Wait you don't hit Wrobel? I love going after him so I can beat the sh*t out of him lmao

7 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Yep and especially when you listen to what Arthur is saying as he is beating Downes up. The other debtors cough up the money after a slight bit of persuasion but Arthur is really pissed off in this case which only really makes sense if Strauss has really driven it home that Downes is being persistent.

I'm unsure on the John retrieving the oil wagon one because it seems hard to trigger. I did a quick test yesterday by activating PFO 1 and then ignoring that while going and doing We Loved Once and True 2 - 3 but PFO 2 (getting the wagon) was still available.

 

Do you have any set way of triggering it Ginseng?

I don't think forgetting the oil wagon is on rockstar original script

I think this thread turned itself more to an role play strat than to try to figure out what rockstar rly intended

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6 minutes ago, GokuDosGames said:

Wait you don't hit Wrobel? I love going after him so I can beat the sh*t out of him lmao

I don't think forgetting the oil wagon is on rockstar original script

I think this thread turned itself more to an role play strat than to try to figure out what rockstar rly intended

Just threaten three times and he let's you loot goods from his house. 

 

Out of the three we visit I'd love to beat up Chick Matthews but he meets my lasso in seconds. Sometimes I leave him tied up lol 

 

I agree with the oil wagon, otherwise what's the point of putting the mission in if Arthur isn't intended to get it.

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Just now, Dan_1983 said:

Just threaten three times and he let's you loot goods from his house. 

 

Out of the three we visit I'd love to beat up Chick Matthews but he meets my lasso in seconds. Sometimes I leave him tied up lol 

I always cut him free, I mean, he may be an asshole, but strauss was even more, loansharking is a dirty business cuz it is within the law

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2 minutes ago, GokuDosGames said:

I always cut him free, I mean, he may be an asshole, but strauss was even more, loansharking is a dirty business cuz it is within the law

If I'm on a bad honour playthrough, I beat up Wrobel, choke Cooper and leave Chick tied up lol.

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12 minutes ago, Dan_1983 said:

If I'm on a bad honour playthrough, I beat up Wrobel, choke Cooper and leave Chick tied up lol.

I can't play as bad honor arthur lol, but still I beat up Wrobel, beat up cooper but don't choke him and cut chick free

Bringing chick to the train tracks also kinda happens some times, by accident I mean

Edited by GokuDosGames
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GinsengElixir
23 minutes ago, GokuDosGames said:

Wait you don't hit Wrobel? I love going after him so I can beat the sh*t out of him lmao

I don't think forgetting the oil wagon is on rockstar original script

I think this thread turned itself more to an role play strat than to try to figure out what rockstar rly intended

You don't think or you don't know?

 

The fact that there is an option for John to get the wagon as opposed to Arthur means it's a legit option in the 'original script'. Intentions don't really come into it if you can play it either way.

32 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Yep and especially when you listen to what Arthur is saying as he is beating Downes up. The other debtors cough up the money after a slight bit of persuasion but Arthur is really pissed off in this case which only really makes sense if Strauss has really driven it home that Downes is being persistent.

I'm unsure on the John retrieving the oil wagon one because it seems hard to trigger. I did a quick test yesterday by activating PFO 1 and then ignoring that while going and doing We Loved Once and True 2 - 3 but PFO 2 (getting the wagon) was still available.

 

Do you have any set way of triggering it Ginseng?

maybe I misread what you meant? I just meant that I always leave it up to John to collect the wagon. 

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2 minutes ago, GinsengElixir said:

You don't think or you don't know?

 

The fact that there is an option for John to get the wagon as opposed to Arthur means it's a legit option in the 'original script'. Intentions don't really come into it if you can play it either way.

Then why would they create the mission? Why would they even bother creating it?

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2 minutes ago, GinsengElixir said:

maybe I misread what you meant? I just meant that I always leave it up to John to collect the wagon. 

Sorry. I mean when you trigger the mission to get the wagon it becomes active and the locations of wagons show up on the map. Then at some point John goes and gets the wagon instead and this part of the mission skips and the wagon locations disappear from the map. I thought this usually happened if you do another mission in the mean time but that didn't seem to do it for me. I just wanted to test out that cutscene basically because I haven't seen it in a long time.

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GinsengElixir
1 minute ago, GokuDosGames said:

Then why would they create the mission? Why would they even bother creating it?

Because it's just that, an option. It isn't really a mission either. If Rockstar definitively intended Arthur to do that specific task then we would have to do it in order to progress. But in the game Rockstar perfectly justify us as Arthur NOT doing it as much as it does the other way around.

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Can we all agree that Chapter 2 is the hardest chapter to put together on a sweet smooth order? Even chapter 6 was easier

Just now, GinsengElixir said:

Because it's just that, an option. It isn't really a mission either. If Rockstar definitively intended Arthur to do that specific task then we would have to do it in order to progress. But in the game Rockstar perfectly justify us as Arthur NOT doing it as much as it does the other way around.

This proofs that we can't create an original order cuz even rockstar doesn't have it

In the end of the day the game isn't linear, we can't create a correct order, just an order that feels better for us

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GinsengElixir
2 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Sorry. I mean when you trigger the mission to get the wagon it becomes active and the locations of wagons show up on the map. Then at some point John goes and gets the wagon instead and this part of the mission skips and the wagon locations disappear from the map. I thought this usually happened if you do another mission in the mean time but that didn't seem to do it for me. I just wanted to test out that cutscene basically because I haven't seen it in a long time.

I see. As far as I recall, I triggered the mission with John, then read the letter from Mary to go visit her, then the Strauss cutscene triggered and I had to go and visit Downes. Then I did Mary's mission and by all that time John told me he got the wagon. It seemed to imply that I was distracted and worked real well narratively. 

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1 minute ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Sorry. I mean when you trigger the mission to get the wagon it becomes active and the locations of wagons show up on the map. Then at some point John goes and gets the wagon instead and this part of the mission skips and the wagon locations disappear from the map. I thought this usually happened if you do another mission in the mean time but that didn't seem to do it for me. I just wanted to test out that cutscene basically because I haven't seen it in a long time.

Yeah, I’ve just tested:

 

PFO I

WLOaT II & III

<Spend night in Valentine>
 

And the next morning the wagons are still available. Looks like some extra time needs to be killed, but is it really worth it? I don’t know if you’ve seen my latest order, but it relies upon PFO II skipping if you do WLOaT, so if that’s not working I think I’ll just do PFO II anyway.

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GinsengElixir
2 minutes ago, GokuDosGames said:

Can we all agree that Chapter 2 is the hardest chapter to put together on a sweet smooth order? Even chapter 6 was easier

This proofs that we can't create an original order cuz even rockstar doesn't have it

In the end of the day the game isn't linear, we can't create a correct order, just an order that feels better for us

Hell yes we can agree. It's such a weird chapter. I feel like overall, narratively and gameplay wise, Rockstar went half way with the so called RPG aspects, or freedom of choice, but they are pretty surface level. 

 

It's only crazy people like us who spend two yrs trying to figure out how to play a chapter of a game and for it to make perfect narrative sense.

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3 minutes ago, GinsengElixir said:

I see. As far as I recall, I triggered the mission with John, then read the letter from Mary to go visit her, then the Strauss cutscene triggered and I had to go and visit Downes. Then I did Mary's mission and by all that time John told me he got the wagon. It seemed to imply that I was distracted and worked real well narratively. 

How can you see John before reading Mary's letter? PFO I only unlocks after WLOaT I

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Just now, GinsengElixir said:

I see. As far as I recall, I triggered the mission with John, then read the letter from Mary to go visit her, then the Strauss cutscene triggered and I had to go and visit Downes. Then I did Mary's mission and by all that time John told me he got the wagon. It seemed to imply that I was distracted and worked real well narratively. 

Cool thanks bud. I think in my case what happened was I rushed too much and I also replayed a checkpoint. I'll try it out again though.

2 minutes ago, JonnyTNT7 said:

Yeah, I’ve just tested:

 

PFO I

WLOaT II & III

<Spend night in Valentine>
 

And the next morning the wagons are still available. Looks like some extra time needs to be killed, but is it really worth it? I don’t know if you’ve seen my latest order, but it relies upon PFO II skipping if you do WLOaT, so if that’s not working I think I’ll just do PFO II anyway.

Ye I'm thinking the same.

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1 minute ago, GinsengElixir said:

It's only crazy people like us who spend two yrs trying to figure out how to play a chapter of a game and for it to make perfect narrative sense.

That's our problem, we are seeking perfection, but we can't, there will be plot holes, and there will be headcanons, every movie, book, game has plot holes and rdr2 is not an exception, an example of that is John going to new austin with sadie and then on rdr1 he saying he never gone that far

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1 minute ago, GokuDosGames said:

That's our problem, we are seeking perfection, but we can't, there will be plot holes, and there will be headcanons, every movie, book, game has plot holes and rdr2 is not an exception, an example of that is John going to new austin with sadie and then on rdr1 he saying he never gone that far

It is only Chapter 2 that is really hard. The rest of the chapters have somewhat clear clues regarding original order throughout them besides the odd debatable thing.

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Just now, jimmyoneshot said:

It is only Chapter 2 that is really hard. The rest of the chapters have somewhat clear clues regarding original order throughout them besides the odd debatable thing.

So that means you guys also have a chapter 4 list too? Can you send me pls?

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Guys should I do Americans at Rest or Who's not without a sin before?

Although I agree that Americans at Rest can work any hour on day 1 I think it is weird to go take a drink with the boys right on the morning and let swanson on Flatneck Station drunk and with his mouth free cuz that isn't the first time the reverend did that cuz arthur says to Grimshaw that what happened was "the usual" but still I think it is hella weird to wake up at 9am with hosea telling you about swanson and then only going to see him at 5pm, it is kinda ok this tho, the main problem is that Dutch said for you to go see the boys when you're ready, but still you go see the reverend, this is weird ah imo

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1 hour ago, GokuDosGames said:

Guys should I do Americans at Rest or Who's not without a sin before?

Although I agree that Americans at Rest can work any hour on day 1 I think it is weird to go take a drink with the boys right on the morning and let swanson on Flatneck Station drunk and with his mouth free cuz that isn't the first time the reverend did that cuz arthur says to Grimshaw that what happened was "the usual" but still I think it is hella weird to wake up at 9am with hosea telling you about swanson and then only going to see him at 5pm, it is kinda ok this tho, the main problem is that Dutch said for you to go see the boys when you're ready, but still you go see the reverend, this is weird ah imo

Do Who is Not Without Sin first. Hosea says Swanson is already at the station, when the chapter starts, and it would make no sense for Arthur to stop there when Sean is going to be moved by bounty hunters. Arthur leaving Swanson there, to drink, for days also makes no sense.

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Here’s what I’m thinking for Chapter 2, based on the Strauss cutscene.

 

 

<Camp time, hunt, gather herbs etc>

[RS] Who Is Not Without Sin?

- - - - -

Polite Society, Valentine Style

[Bounty] Good, Honest Snake Oil

[JE] Americans at Rest

<Bathe before sleeping in the hotel/sleeping at camp/camping above the Upper  Montana river>

 - - - - -

[JE] The First Shall be Last

<Sean’s party>

 - - - - -

[H] Exit, Pursued by a Bruised Ego

<Return with Hosea>

 - - - - -

[K] Paying a Social Call

<Hunt something - an Elk, a Sheep, whatever - to stop Grimshaw approaching you when you return to camp>

 - - - - -

[LS] Money Lending and Other Sins I

[$] Wrobel

[LS] Money Lending and Other Sins II

<Grimshaw approaches about Spines of America>

[$] Chick Matthews

[$] Lilly Millet

<This doesn’t work perfectly since chasing down the witness at the end of Lilly’s debt collection blocks Spines from starting, and you have to ride away then double back. It could do with improvement>

[H] The Spines of America

<Day approach, then return with Hosea>

[D] A Quiet Time

<Getting arrested is probably better so you have a horse nearby>

- - - - -

<Explore around Big Valley. You could hunt Beavers for the satchel or the Legendary Buck to help with future hunting. Begin the next mission when it turns dark>

[M] Blessed are the Meek?

- - - - -

<Return to camp>

[Letter] We Loved Once and True I

<Strauss Cutscene>

[LS] Money Lending and Other Sins III

<Grimshaw approaches about Pouring Forth Oil>

[J] Pouring Forth Oil I

[J] Pouring Forth Oil II

[ML] We Loved Once and True II-III

<Spend night in Valentine, visit saloon, stables, shops etc OR camp out but don’t return to camp until morning>

- - - - -

[J] Pouring Forth Oil III

[M] An American Pastoral Scene

<I think AAPS fits better after PFO IV, but it seems intended to come first. You can do it now or leave it until the morning after PFO IV>

[A] A Fisher of Men

[J] Pouring Forth Oil IV

- - - - -

<Something needs to go in here to separate seeing John in PFO and seeing John in TSATG. It will be Hunting - Charles or Home Robbery - Javier>

[J] The Sheep and the Goats

[D] A Strange Kindness

 

 

 

It’s missing the other companion activity, but apart from that flows pretty well. The only other point I would make is some days are packed with activities, and there might not be enough time to do them all comfortably. I’ll need to test it.

 

I’ve tried to take into account different dialogues, but I also want something that tells the story well and plays in a satisfying way. Let me know what you think.

Edited by JonnyTNT7
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