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RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 - "Chronological" Mission Order


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40 minutes ago, Shinola Gamer said:

Any ideas for chapter 4?

There’s still chapter 3 to perfect before moving onto 4.

 

i replied to your chapter3 list btw jimmy just in case you missed it lol

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jimmyoneshot
25 minutes ago, Shinola Gamer said:

Any ideas for chapter 4?

Here's the last list I came up with for Chapter 4 Shinola. I think it was the most straightforward chapter to be honest:-

  1. Joys of Civilization
  2. Angelo Bronte a Man of Honor
  3. Fatherhood and Other Dreams
  4. No, No an Thrice No (at the start of this Mary-Beth speaks about Arthur meeting Mary Gillis which happened in the above mission meaning this has to be placed after it)
  5. Help a Brother Out
  6. Brothers and Sisters One and All
  7. The Gilded Cage
  8. American Father's 1 (it's just a cutscene and is on the way to the below mission)
  9. A Fine Night of Debauchery
  10. American Father's 2
  11. Horsemen, Apocalypses
  12. Urban Pleasures
  13. Country Pursuits
  14. Revenge Is A Dish Best Eaten
  15. Banking, The Old American Art

As you can see I like to take care of every other available story mission available before a Gilded Cage because after that it gets fast tracked as in Dutch asks you to take care of the indians (American Fathers) and the boat card game (A fine Night of Debauchery) so these will then realistically need doing quick which then unlocks Hoesmen Apocalypsyes an when that finishes Dutch tells you to meet him at the trolley station and the missions just flow from one to the next after that.

5 minutes ago, NikosUncle said:

There’s still chapter 3 to perfect before moving onto 4.

 

i replied to your chapter3 list btw jimmy just in case you missed it lol

Sorry bud. I'll check that out now. Missed it.

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jimmyoneshot
On 1/6/2019 at 2:41 AM, NikosUncle said:

I do think Further Questions of Female Suffrage is meant to be the second mission in the same way Polite Society was meant to be the first in chapter 2. It’s the closest mission marker and the only one in the camp which is where you are. For time of days reasons you’d need to sleep straight after the fishing trip before triggering it.

 

i know you had an issue with the mission title making it seem like it should come after the protest in Rhodes so I understand the dilemma here. 

 

Also leaving Preaching Forgiveness As He Went so late means Lenny is standing at the shore for a long time but I guess that doesn’t matter too much. 

 

At the end of The Joys of Tobacco you’re left in a field in the middle of the night and Horse Flesh For Dinner isn’t even available again straight away. Is that a good time to set up your own camp to sleep till morning? Could another mission be done in between? It might seem strange to go straight back to the Grays only hours after burning a lot of their crops and killing so many men. I know John mentions the Grays are freaking out about it but it still might be slightly too soon to go back there.

 

 

Before any of this though... what happens if you go to the Grays entrance first without the badge? 

Yep I thought it was a bit silly the way you have to sleep after that first mission because otherwise it will be late no matter how much you rush A New South and then if you start Suffrage time will fast forward to day which just looks silly I think so I always sleep too before doing it.

 

The mission which is the most confusing is 'Preaching Forgiveness As He Went'. This is largely due to dialogue in several missions and this one. Firstly if you do this before Advertising The New American Art it doesn't really make sense because in that mission the Lemoyne Raiders turn up and are pissed off about their moonshine whereas Arthur has just destroyed their main base and practically wiped them out in Lenny's mission so surely they should be more concerned about that.

 

And if you do this after that mission then Arthur says to Lenny that he has met these guys before when they attacked him and Sadie which makes no sense because the attack on him and Hosea was way bigger so why wouldn't he mention that instead. This is why I thought of doing the Sadie mission later too because that dialogue would make sense IF Arthur and Sadie getting attacked by them was the last time Arthur bumped into them if you know what I mean.

 

I need to double check what unlocks this mission before I update that list though. I'm thinking it may slot in between the course of true love missions but that may not be possible as it may require all of those missions to be completed before it unlocks.

 

Besides those 2 missions with question marks next to them I'm pretty sure the rest are spot on though.

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4 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

To be honest boys I think this whole binoculars thing is a non-issue. I honestly think it's either a mistake in the game that they haven't told you to press L2 during this mission or that they just expected you to know it by then and then in that case it was mistakenly added into Spines too when it wasn't needed. I've noticed if you whip out your binoculars at any point outside of this mission, as long as you haven't used them yet, it tells you in the top left to press L2 to use them. It's not worth changing the order based on that one thing and leaving the gang for soooo long when in my opinion the only order that really makes sense is this one:-

 

DAY 1

Polite Society Valentine Style
Americans At Rest

 

DAY 2
Bounty Mission - Good Honest Snake Oil
Who Is Not Without Sin

The First Shall Be The Last

 

DAY 3
Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego 

 

DAY 4
Spines Of America

 

DAY 5
Money Lending & Other Sins 1, 2 and 3

 

DAY 6
Paying A Social Call
A Quiet Time

 

DAY 7
Blessed Are The Meek

 

DAY 8
We Loved Once and True 1, 2 and 3
Bounty Mission - Ellie Ann Swan

 

DAY 9
Pouring Forth Oil 1, 2 and 3
A Fisher of Men
Pouring Forth Oil 4

 

DAY 10
An American Pastoral Scene

 

DAY 11
The Sheep & The Goats
A Strange Kindness

Great job, on the mission order for chapter 2. I am experimenting and replaying chapter 2 right now. I found something very interesting that I never saw before. 

1. Good Honest Snake Oil is locked the morning after American at Rest. After the bar fight, I went to take a bath and went back to the camp to sleep. The next morning I went to Valentine, but the bounty hunting was locked because the sheriff noticed Arthur fighting in the street. I never did anything extra in the morning. 

2. I found Dutch's speech notes on the box in camp.

3. I did A Quiet Time before Exit pursued by a bruised ego.

4. In Exit pursued by a bruised ego, the dialogue between Hosea and Arthur will be a little different. The Bonds dialogue came as we enter Valentine.  Hosea will mention to Arthur, "try to stay out of the saloon this time". This line made me laugh hard.  Arthur has been through 2 bar fights and a drinking party with Lenny.

5. The second bar fight, happen when I was exploring. I won a poker game and started to drink a lot. This man in a raccoon hat started a fight with Arthur.

6. After Exit pursued by a bruised ego, Hosea and Arthur returned to camp, Dutch gave the speech that was on the speech notes I found.

7. So far on the map, I still have saving Sean, saving Micah, and Strauss mission left to do.

8. Hosea did not leave yet for Emerald ranch.

 

Edited by Psycho18
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jimmyoneshot
7 hours ago, Psycho18 said:

Great job, on the mission order for chapter 2. I am experimenting and replaying chapter 2 right now. I found something very interesting that I never saw before. 

1. Good Honest Snake Oil is locked the morning after American at Rest. After the bar fight, I went to take a bath and went back to the camp to sleep. The next morning I went to Valentine, but the bounty hunting was locked because the sheriff noticed Arthur fighting in the street. I never did anything extra in the morning. 

2. I found Dutch's speech notes on the box in camp.

3. I did A Quiet Time before Exit pursued by a bruised ego.

4. In Exit pursued by a bruised ego, the dialogue between Hosea and Arthur will be a little different. The Bonds dialogue came as we enter Valentine.  Hosea will mention to Arthur, "try to stay out of the saloon this time". This line made me laugh hard.  Arthur has been through 2 bar fights and a drinking party with Lenny.

5. The second bar fight, happen when I was exploring. I won a poker game and started to drink a lot. This man in a raccoon hat started a fight with Arthur.

6. After Exit pursued by a bruised ego, Hosea and Arthur returned to camp, Dutch gave the speech that was on the speech notes I found.

7. So far on the map, I still have saving Sean, saving Micah, and Strauss mission left to do.

8. Hosea did not leave yet for Emerald ranch.

 

Thanks man.

 

I've never had snake oil locked the next day. It's always just gone straight after Americans At Rest but is always there the next day for me so that is quite strange. The sheriff never seems to be around for the Tommy fight, unless you mean you were fighting in the street again after that you hooligan ha.

 

I forgot about Dutch's speech notes and speech itself to be honest although I've seen them before. I need to work them back into my playthrough as it's a cool detail. So they must appear after the first day then I'm guessing. So I wonder if the speech is triggered after you finish Exit Pursued the next time you get back to camp? I always stay and hunt the bear after that mission and then return to camp at which point Grimshaw approaches me for Spines in which case Hosea has always left.

 

Although I didn't like doing it at first I honestly think now that Exit Pursued is meant to be done early such as straight after the First Shall Be Last due to it being a full on tutorial mission. I know we've been getting hung up on the dialogue with Hosea about the bonds but I've noticed some other dialogue in Spines where Arthur is talking to Hosea about how the money is doing in general and Hosea is talking about Dutch having stashed some money in a chest somewhere outside camp. So basically I think it's because Hosea is in the know about anything money related and Arthur knows this. Plus as I said when Dutch says "Hosea's working on it" in A Quiet Time, if you listen closely to HOW he says it it's like he is saying that Hosea is STILL working on it rather than this being the first time he's told Arthur about it.

 

Normally during Exit Pursued Hosea says "No bar fights please. I heard about that" (referring to Americans At Rest) so it's good to hear they added extra dialogue in case anyone by some chance has also done A Quiet Time before this.

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I think for Good Honest Snake Oil to be unlocked again after Americans at Rest you need to reload lol.

Edited by Dan_1983
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4 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Thanks man.

 

I've never had snake oil locked the next day. It's always just gone straight after Americans At Rest but is always there the next day for me so that is quite strange. The sheriff never seems to be around for the Tommy fight, unless you mean you were fighting in the street again after that you hooligan ha.

 

I forgot about Dutch's speech notes and speech itself to be honest although I've seen them before. I need to work them back into my playthrough as it's a cool detail. So they must appear after the first day then I'm guessing. So I wonder if the speech is triggered after you finish Exit Pursued the next time you get back to camp? I always stay and hunt the bear after that mission and then return to camp at which point Grimshaw approaches me for Spines in which case Hosea has always left.

 

Although I didn't like doing it at first I honestly think now that Exit Pursued is meant to be done early such as straight after the First Shall Be Last due to it being a full on tutorial mission. I know we've been getting hung up on the dialogue with Hosea about the bonds but I've noticed some other dialogue in Spines where Arthur is talking to Hosea about how the money is doing in general and Hosea is talking about Dutch having stashed some money in a chest somewhere outside camp. So basically I think it's because Hosea is in the know about anything money related and Arthur knows this. Plus as I said when Dutch says "Hosea's working on it" in A Quiet Time, if you listen closely to HOW he says it it's like he is saying that Hosea is STILL working on it rather than this being the first time he's told Arthur about it.

 

Normally during Exit Pursued Hosea says "No bar fights please. I heard about that" (referring to Americans At Rest) so it's good to hear they added extra dialogue in case anyone by some chance has also done A Quiet Time before this.

Yeah, I never had snake oil locked before. It is strange, that the first time I put snake oil after American at rest and snake oil was locked. American at rest was the first street fight. 

I know about the first Dutch's speech at the beginning of chapter 2 after they arrive. This is the first time I heard the second Dutch's speech. I think it is only possible to get the second Dutch's speech if you do  A Quiet time before Exit pursued by a bruised ego. You need to return to camp with Hosea. Every time I  put A Quiet Time after Exit pursued by a bruised ego the second Dutch's speech never happen. 

 

You make some good points. Another thing I noticed is that Paying a Social Call is the tutorial to stealth kills with bows and throwing knives. A social call can be placed before the First Shall Be Last because after Sean's party Javier will craft you some poison knives. It makes more sense to receive and use regular throwing knives before getting poison knives.  

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2 hours ago, Psycho18 said:

Yeah, I never had snake oil locked before. It is strange, that the first time I put snake oil after American at rest and snake oil was locked. American at rest was the first street fight. 

I know about the first Dutch's speech at the beginning of chapter 2 after they arrive. This is the first time I heard the second Dutch's speech. I think it is only possible to get the second Dutch's speech if you do  A Quiet time before Exit pursued by a bruised ego. You need to return to camp with Hosea. Every time I  put A Quiet Time after Exit pursued by a bruised ego the second Dutch's speech never happen. 

 

You make some good points. Another thing I noticed is that Paying a Social Call is the tutorial to stealth kills with bows and throwing knives. A social call can be placed before the First Shall Be Last because after Sean's party Javier will craft you some poison knives. It makes more sense to receive and use regular throwing knives before getting poison knives.  

It's certainly possible to get his speech in camp without having done Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego. I've got it on Day 3 several times after my morning deer hunt/Herb scavenge trip, before doing either of Hosea's missions.  Like most of the gang member interactions in the game, it seems to be completely random and potentially swapped with a handful of other interactions depending on time of day, which gang members are doing other things, etc.

Also, Good Honest Snake Oil is locked for me as well after Americans at Rest but only when I sleep and bathe at the hotel and wake up at 6:15AM the next day.  I have a feeling it's because maybe the sheriff's office is still closed until later in the morning.

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17 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

The mission which is the most confusing is 'Preaching Forgiveness As He Went'. This is largely due to dialogue in several missions and this one. Firstly if you do this before Advertising The New American Art it doesn't really make sense because in that mission the Lemoyne Raiders turn up and are pissed off about their moonshine whereas Arthur has just destroyed their main base and practically wiped them out in Lenny's mission so surely they should be more concerned about that.

 

Is there any reason that the Lemoyne Raiders would know it was the Van der Linde gang that wiped them out in Shady Belle? As far as I remember, Arthur & Lenny don't leave anyone alive and they hide the stolen rifles.

 

They obviously know that it was Arthur/Hosea who stole the moonshine because they're then trying to sell it! But would they have any reason to assume that the same people were responsible for both attacks?

 

On 1/5/2019 at 9:41 PM, NikosUncle said:

Before any of this though... what happens if you go to the Grays entrance first without the badge? 

You talk your way in on the grounds that you've been working with Sherriff Gray (in 'A New South').

 

So I wonder if it's perfectly plausible to go A New South - Course of True Love - Further Questions of Female Suffrage to start? After all - Dutch does tell you to go check out what's happening at Caliga Hall in 'A New South'. Could make sense to do that straight away in the morning after your fishing trip, and then go back to camp to see the Pierson/Sadie commotion?

Edited by Tonesta
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jimmyoneshot
6 hours ago, Dan_1983 said:

I think for Good Honest Snake Oil to be unlocked again after Americans at Rest you need to reload lol.

I normally end the day there and walk back to camp and then return to do that the next day in the morning then Swanson is the afternoon.

4 hours ago, Brgrabs said:

It's certainly possible to get his speech in camp without having done Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego. I've got it on Day 3 several times after my morning deer hunt/Herb scavenge trip, before doing either of Hosea's missions.  Like most of the gang member interactions in the game, it seems to be completely random and potentially swapped with a handful of other interactions depending on time of day, which gang members are doing other things, etc.

Also, Good Honest Snake Oil is locked for me as well after Americans at Rest but only when I sleep and bathe at the hotel and wake up at 6:15AM the next day.  I have a feeling it's because maybe the sheriff's office is still closed until later in the morning.

Yep it wouldn't make sens for Arthur to have that big fight and then stroll into the sheriffs office but because it is literally the next closest mission people would likely do that and I think R* realised this and disable it until you leave town and come back the next day

Edited by jimmyoneshot
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jimmyoneshot
6 hours ago, Psycho18 said:

Yeah, I never had snake oil locked before. It is strange, that the first time I put snake oil after American at rest and snake oil was locked. American at rest was the first street fight. 

I know about the first Dutch's speech at the beginning of chapter 2 after they arrive. This is the first time I heard the second Dutch's speech. I think it is only possible to get the second Dutch's speech if you do  A Quiet time before Exit pursued by a bruised ego. You need to return to camp with Hosea. Every time I  put A Quiet Time after Exit pursued by a bruised ego the second Dutch's speech never happen. 

 

You make some good points. Another thing I noticed is that Paying a Social Call is the tutorial to stealth kills with bows and throwing knives. A social call can be placed before the First Shall Be Last because after Sean's party Javier will craft you some poison knives. It makes more sense to receive and use regular throwing knives before getting poison knives.  

Yep I strongly believe Americans At Rest is meant to be done straight after Polite Society as you can hear Javier's voice everywhere as you approach the street. Plus as you know it makes no sense to me to do Snake Oil with no horse.

 

True, Social Call is a stealth tutorial in a way but you can't get Javier to make you throwing knives until you have done his mission can you? Unless you catch him walking about and not at his mission spot. And Javier's mission should definitely be saved until after Money Lending 3 though because of the way Arthur coughs in it.

 

I would argue that first shall be the last has the first actual stealth kill because Javier talks you through it with you're knife whereas social call seems to be more advanced stealth with throwing knives etc plus there is the option to make Bill and John do the killing. I suppose they are interchangeable though. My problem is that Dutch is heavily involved in this mission at the start but the last order he gave you was to go to Sean when you are ready so it just doesn't feel right for me if that makes sense. Feels like going off track doing that first.

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jimmyoneshot
3 hours ago, Tonesta said:

Is there any reason that the Lemoyne Raiders would know it was the Van der Linde gang that wiped them out in Shady Belle? As far as I remember, Arthur & Lenny don't leave anyone alive and they hide the stolen rifles.

 

They obviously know that it was Arthur/Hosea who stole the moonshine because they're then trying to sell it! But would they have any reason to assume that the same people were responsible for both attacks?

 

You talk your way in on the grounds that you've been working with Sherriff Gray (in 'A New South').

 

So I wonder if it's perfectly plausible to go A New South - Course of True Love - Further Questions of Female Suffrage to start? After all - Dutch does tell you to go check out what's happening at Caliga Hall in 'A New South'. Could make sense to do that straight away in the morning after your fishing trip, and then go back to camp to see the Pierson/Sadie commotion?

You may be right there and in that case it could be done early. It just seems to me like they practically destroy the whole gang in that mission. It always felt like this was the last of the lemoyne raiders rather than just being another fight with them.

 

It only ever really made sense to me to do American Distillation first because that is when you get the badge and when Arthur uses the badge to get into the grounds that is literally the only time he uses the badge in the whole chapter so it seems a shame to waste that and it seems strange for him to go in there without a goo reason for being there.

 

The other issue I always had with it is this - As soon as you complete Course of true Love 1 & 2 and American Distillation this unlocks Advertising The New American Art and this starts when Abigail approaches you in camp and you end up back at camp straight after American Distillation. So Abigail is approaching you to sell the moonshine that you stole literally seconds ago and the gang talk as if it's been there for quite some time so it makes no sense.

 

I suppose though you could do An Honest Mistake straight after American Distillation here as I've recently been thinking it is meant to be straight after that plus it's on the edge of camp meaning you wouldn't need to go into camp where Abigail approaches you.

 

I'll have to replay C3 a few more times and try how these things flow.

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According to the official guide:

- Polite Society, Valentine Style 

- American At Rest 

- Who is Not Without Sin 

- The First Shall Be Last 

- Paying a Social Call

- Mone Lending and Other Sins I & II

- A Quiet Time 

- Exit Pursued By a Bruised Ego 

- Money Lending and Other Sins III

 

It's weird how they separate MLOS I & II from III.

I think we can only follow it til the first shall be last, they also put snake oil too far.

Edited by Shinola Gamer
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29 minutes ago, Shinola Gamer said:

According to the official guide:

- Polite Society, Valentine Style 

- American At Rest 

- Who is Not Without Sin 

- The First Shall Be Last 

- Paying a Social Call

- Mone Lending and Other Sins I & II

- A Quiet Time 

- Exit Pursued By a Bruised Ego 

- Money Lending and Other Sins III

 

It's weird how they separate MLOS I & II from III.

I think we can only follow it til the first shall be last, they also put snake oil too far.

I have the official guide as well, and tbh my biggest issue withe the Chapter 2 'official' list is the massive gap between A Quiet Time and Blessed are the Meek.

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Urban Legends

Do you lose Bills stagecoach mission in ch. 2 if you complete Blessed are the peacemakers beforehand?

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17 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

You may be right there and in that case it could be done early. It just seems to me like they practically destroy the whole gang in that mission. It always felt like this was the last of the lemoyne raiders rather than just being another fight with them.

 

I dunno - I think they're bigger than that. They're still around, causing mayhem, in 1907 after all (unlike, I think, the O'Driscolls? For obvious reasons).

I just viewed Shady Belle as one of many sites they occupied across the South that they were simply pushed out of for a while.

 

 

13 hours ago, Brgrabs said:

I have the official guide as well, and tbh my biggest issue withe the Chapter 2 'official' list is the massive gap between A Quiet Time and Blessed are the Meek.

Seems like the Official Guide dislikes Micah as much as the rest of us!

 

I always leave him to rot in Strawberry jail (and then in his own camp outside of Strawberry) for as long as I possibly can. Not because I think it's narratively appropriate - but because it means I don't have to see and hear him around camp for the maximum amount of time!

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21 hours ago, Shinola Gamer said:

According to the official guide:

- Polite Society, Valentine Style 

- American At Rest 

- Who is Not Without Sin 

- The First Shall Be Last 

- Paying a Social Call

- Mone Lending and Other Sins I & II

- A Quiet Time 

- Exit Pursued By a Bruised Ego 

- Money Lending and Other Sins III

 

It's weird how they separate MLOS I & II from III.

I think we can only follow it til the first shall be last, they also put snake oil too far.

Yep the official guide is officially wrong though it seems because they have Fisher of Men AFTER Pouring Forth Oil Part 4 when in part 4 Arthur actually talks clearly about something that happened in a Fisher of Men which means the real place for Fisher of Men is between Pouring Forth Oil Part 3 and 4.

 

I think the order they have for the early missions makes sense though except for Good Honest Snake Oil which i think you can slot in before Who Is Not Without Sin:-

 

- Polite Society, Valentine Style 

- American At Rest 

- Who is Not Without Sin 

- The First Shall Be Last 

- Paying a Social Call

 

I like doing Paying a Social Call straight after The First Shall Be The Last because Bill and John are drinking together at Sean's party so it kind of fits that Arthur would pick them 2 to go with him plus it doesn't leave Kieran tied to the tree while Arthur and Hosea go hunting. I then like to do Exit Pursued which also fits story wise because in it Hosea says "So how are things with you and John?" which would make sense if Arthur had just done A Social Call before this. He says this no matter what too.

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8 hours ago, Tonesta said:

I dunno - I think they're bigger than that. They're still around, causing mayhem, in 1907 after all (unlike, I think, the O'Driscolls? For obvious reasons).

I just viewed Shady Belle as one of many sites they occupied across the South that they were simply pushed out of for a while.

 

 

Seems like the Official Guide dislikes Micah as much as the rest of us!

 

I always leave him to rot in Strawberry jail (and then in his own camp outside of Strawberry) for as long as I possibly can. Not because I think it's narratively appropriate - but because it means I don't have to see and hear him around camp for the maximum amount of time!

Yep maybe you're right. It does seem to unlock early too. The dialogue at the start always changes too based on what you have done. For example if you have done Sadies mission Arthur will say that he met them before when they "harangued me and Sadie" whereas if you do American Distillation he will say that he met them when they were "buying moonshine off one of these hillbilly families". The strange thing is if you do both of these missions, no matter what order you do them in Arthur always mentions that he met them with Sadie. Also if you do the moonshine selling mission with Hosea before this which leads to another shootout with them as well as those 2 missions Arthur makes no mention of that at all and STILL says he met them when he was with Sadie.

 

So this does suggest to me that this mission is meant to be done some point before Advertising The New American Art otherwise SURELY he would've mentioned the shootout him and Hosea had with them rather than the one with Sadie.

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Matthew Conteh

You should've just done all three money lending missions for chapter 2 all at once right after spines of America because the order you I'm unable to do because I finish paying a social call and I head back to camp for the mary linton mission strauss hounds cuz I still haven't seen Thomas Downes theres no way around it 

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9 minutes ago, Matthew Conteh said:

You should've just done all three money lending missions for chapter 2 all at once right after spines of America because the order you I'm unable to do because I finish paying a social call and I head back to camp for the mary linton mission strauss hounds cuz I still haven't seen Thomas Downes theres no way around it 

I agree. I always do all the money lending missions on the same day. The cutscenes seem to imply that Arthur is going to get the debt from Downes straight after the others too.

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FINALLY starting to look into Chapter 3 in great detail so I will be posting my notes here.

 

First thing I noticed is that it is very possible to do the fishing trip in A New South AND Further Questions of Female Suffrage in the same day AND it makes sense to do so.

 

When I tried this on my previous tests a while back I only ever got back to camp at 7 or 8 because I wanted to see if that mission would stay open at night which obviously wouldn't make sense because Arthur and Sadie go shopping in it so the shops would have to be open i.e. it would have to be day. When I did this time fast forwarded to morning the next day so it seemed silly because it was night when Sadie and Pearson were arguing then a few seconds later it was day.

 

This time however I got back at around 6pm and as soon as I started the Female Suffrage mission time got set to around 5pm, at which point shops in game are still open, and time stayed locked at that time until after the mission was done and they were riding back. I'm wondering if previously I mistakenly thought time was being reset to 5am in the morning when it was actually just being set to 5pm. Either way as long as you do A New South pretty fast without standing around or taking too long fishing  you can easily get back for a time between 5pm and 6pm or thereabouts making the Female Suffrage mission make sense. I noticed time seems to stop when you are rowing the boat back too.

 

It also flows quite well because after you land Hosea says he is taking the fish from the trip to Pearson and you can hear the argument in the background which lets you know the mission is available as soon as you get off the boat. Plus it is very hard to walk past this mission without triggering it.

 

I was always certain that A New South was the first mission too because it's the only thing available when you start the chapter and is right next to where you start. To activate Female Suffrage you have to leave camp and come back so I was sure that was not meant to be first. So that's the first 2 set in stone for me:-

 

- The New South

- Further Questions of Female Suffrage

 

At this point the only mission available is The Course Of True Love 1 but that mission is clearly meant to be a daytime one (there are workers about at the gray's mansion during the mission) and at this point it is most definitely night so it's time to sleep. And when you sleep here American Distillation will become available in the morning so I'll decide on what's next.

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I remember when you get back from the fishing trip in New South it’s sunset with bright orange sky so if you pretty much go straight to Pearson does it just stay like that through that mission?

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2 minutes ago, NikosUncle said:

I remember when you get back from the fishing trip in New South it’s sunset with bright orange sky so if you pretty much go straight to Pearson does it just stay like that through that mission?

I think time carries on from when you finish that mission but then as soon as you start female suffrage it gets set to 5pm and stays there until you are riding back with Sadie after Rhodes

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56 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

I think time carries on from when you finish that mission but then as soon as you start female suffrage it gets set to 5pm and stays there until you are riding back with Sadie after Rhodes

That’s good news then.

 

so now you’re not too worried about the mission title making it seem like it should be after the woman’s protest? 

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2 hours ago, NikosUncle said:

That’s good news then.

 

so now you’re not too worried about the mission title making it seem like it should be after the woman’s protest? 

Not too much because as Tonesta said earlier in the thread the title of the mission is:-

 

"

a) Is something that's of the real world, not the game world, and therefore of secondary importance to determining the ideal chronological narrative

b) Could be explained away anyway. There's always questions of female suffrage. This could be a further question. And then the TCOTL is yet another further question!

"

 

Plus the mission is right there under our noses and is hard to avoid. My problem with this whole chapter is the dialogue at the start of Lenny's mission - Preaching Forgiveness As He Went (PFAHW). Depending on certain combinations of what has been done of the 2 mission American Distillation (AD) and Further Questions of Female Suffrage (FQOFS) Arthur's dialogue with Lenny will change about the Lemoyne raiders as they are riding out:-

 

- If you don't do either FQOFS or AD Arthur won't even mention the raiders during PFAHW
- If you do FQOFS without doing AD then during PFAHW Arthur says to Lenny that he met the raiders when they "harangued me and Sadie"
- If you do AD without doing FQOFS then during PFAHW Arthur says to Lenny that he met the raiders when they were "buying moonshine off one of these hillbilly families"
- If you do FQOFS followed by AD then during PFAHW Arthur still says to Lenny he met the raiders when they "harangued me and Sadie"
- If you do AD followed by FQOFS then during PFAHW Arthur still says to Lenny he met the raiders when "harangued me and Sadie"

 

I like this order:-

  1. New South
  2. Female Suffrage
  3. American Distillation
  4. An Honest Mistake
  5. Course Of True Love 1 and 2
  6. Preaching Forgiveness
  7. Course of True Love 3
  8. *When you get back to camp Abigail hunts you down here to start the mission below which is unlocked when American Distillation and Course Of True Love 1, 2 & 3 are done
  9. Advertising The New American Art Form

 

However as you can see based on the above combinations I mentioned this means that Arthur says to Lenny that he met the raiders before when they attacked him and Sadie rather than talk about when he met them in American Distillation which would make more sense. As long as you've done Female Suffrage he always talks about the attack on him and Sadie no matter what which makes me think I should do female suffrage after Preaching Forgiveness like this:-

 

  1. New South
  2. American Distillation
  3. An Honest Mistake
  4. Course Of True Love 1 and 2
  5. Preaching Forgiveness
  6. Course of True Love 3
  7. Female Suffrage - Would need to avoid Abigail
  8. Advertising The New American Art Form

 

In this case even the mission title would make sense. But I can't decide. I'm looking at Arthur's journal now too to see if that gives any clues about stuff like Arthur speaking about something being the first time he met the raiders for example the same way in chapter 2 he sort of says spines of america is his first time at emerald ranch

Edited by jimmyoneshot
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Maybe he’s just mentioning the incident where he FIRST met the raiders with Sadie and not as if it’s the only time? It would’ve been better if he mentioned both incidents if you had done both missions though.

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8 minutes ago, NikosUncle said:

Maybe he’s just mentioning the incident where he FIRST met the raiders with Sadie and not as if it’s the only time? It would’ve been better if he mentioned both incidents if you had done both missions though.

Yep but if you do American Distillation First before Female Suffrage he still mentions the Sadie incident. That's why I tested out all those combinations.

 

It would've been better yes. I'm wondering if it's a mistake.

 

One thing I'm pretty sure on though is that Preaching Forgiveness should be done before Advertising The New American Art Form rather than after it because during that mission Arthur has a huge shootout with them and finds talks about them with Hosea etc yet in Preaching Forgiveness he never mentions this mission and only mentions one of the other incidents no matter what.

 

There is also this order:-

  1. New South
  2. Female Suffrage
  3. Course Of True Love 1 and 2
  4. An Honest Mistake
  5. Course of True Love 3
  6. Preaching Forgiveness
  7. American Distillation
  8. Advertising The New American Art Form

However it wouldn't make sense because right at the start of An Honest Mistake Uncle says "While you boys have been off fishing or playing lawmen..." referring to Bill and Arthur being deputized in American Distillation which means American Distillation must've been done before this because he says it no matter what.

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Even if it works better narratively I’m not a big fan of leaving mission icons for too long after they become available or actively avoiding them especially if they’re at the camp. You shouldn’t have to walk around someone to avoid triggering a mission or dialogue in the middle of camp. 

 

I think Female Suffrage should be our official mission2 and we work from there. 

 

Before you go to the Grays and do True Love1, do you know if Dutch or anyone else reminds Arthur to go check them out if you leave that for too long?

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9 hours ago, NikosUncle said:

Even if it works better narratively I’m not a big fan of leaving mission icons for too long after they become available or actively avoiding them especially if they’re at the camp. You shouldn’t have to walk around someone to avoid triggering a mission or dialogue in the middle of camp. 

 

I think Female Suffrage should be our official mission2 and we work from there. 

 

Before you go to the Grays and do True Love1, do you know if Dutch or anyone else reminds Arthur to go check them out if you leave that for too long?

Me neither but I think there are some cases where it needs to be done, like Hosea in Chapter 2. But I'm not sure this is the same as that.

 

In Chapter 3 Hosea does some dialogue sometimes where he literally approaches you and asks you what you think of those 2 families and tells you to look into them. I'm not sure what triggers this but I know he only does this if you haven't finished all 3 parts of the Course of True Love missions. Perhaps if you do a couple of missions before starting those he may approach you.

 

There is also some dialogue I have noticed from Dutch where he approaches you and says something about "how does it feel to be an officer of the law" and he then says it's so you can "hide in plain sight" and help people to blend in. He said this after I had the sheriffs badge and had finished all of the Course Of True Love missions but I'm not sure if he may say it elsewhere before this too based on certain things you do.

 

I'm gonna test this out a bit by replaying the chapter in a few different orders to see what triggers these different dialogues too.

Edited by jimmyoneshot
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