RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 - "Chronological" Mission Order

[Psycho18]

Chapter 1

 

Outlaws From The West

(Abigail)- Enter Pursued By A Memory

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Bed- Talk to Dutch, Molly, and Hosea

Church- Talk All, and check on John'

Bed-- Listen Dutch and Hosea Argument- follow Dutch to fire near Javier

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(Bill)- Old Friends: Javier comes in first, and Dutch hears the fight inside

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Bed- Talk all

Church- Talk all and check on John

Fire shack-- Talk all

Barn- Talk all

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(Pearson)- Aftermath of Genesis: skin one deer

(Dutch)- Who the hell is Leviticus Cornwall:  On Train (Lenny kills 1st man), (Arthur kills 2nd man with (Knife Kill)).

Eastward Bound

 

Chapter 2

(Arthur and the Gang needs money)

I am not naming all Random encounters in the mission order. I seen a lot of them in my travels. I only will name a few Randoms that is connected to my story experience.

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Dutch- item Request-- Pipe

Hosea-- item Request- book

(Uncle)- Polite Society, Valentine Style- gather information, keep a low profile, and the ladies found info on bank and train robberies.

(Stranger) Noblest of Men and a Women- (money maker opportunity). Run back to camp

(Stranger) Mickey

Murder Scene 1-- Citadel Rock

(Swanson)-- Who is not Without Sin: play couple hands of poker, let Swanson get chased by Big man outside

Maybe--- (Gambler 1 Challenge)

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Good Honest, Snake Oil: Bounty hunting Benedict Allbright (money maker opportunity)

(Javier)- American at Rest-- boys not in Valentine to gather info, only party.

(Stranger)- Thomas Downes

Bath- Hotel room overnight

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Castor's Ridge-- Father and Son's house Builder

Appleseed Timber Company-- introduce to Foreman and sell few items

(Javier)-- The First Shall Be the Last-- River (Arthur knife kill left guy)

Party

----------------------------------------------------

Hunting

Donate to camp deer carcass, meat and pelts-- Pearson Trapper info

(Master Hunter 1 challenge)

Castor's Ridge stage 2 shootout

Random-- Snake Bite Victim-- Dakota River-- help

Random-- Skipping Stones-- Dakota River-- Arthur gives bad Advice (Talk to young man again as John, Epilogue).

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Money Lending and Other Sins-- Talk Strauss

Money Lending and  Other Sins-- Mr. Wrobel

Money Lending and Other Sins-- Lilly Millet

Money Lending and Other Sins-- Chick Matthews

Money Lending and Other Sins-- Thomas Downes

(Stranger) A Test of Faith)

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Random- Lone Prisoner Flatneck Station-- shoot shackles (Robbery tip), hogtie prisoner and take him to Valentine Sheriff only (little money)

(Stranger) Smoking and Other Hobbies

(Stranger) All that Glitter-- rob him or buy map $5

(Explorer 1 Challenge)

(Kieran) Paying a Social Call-- Arthur (knife kill man on log) cabin money and shotgun

(Weapon expert 1 challenge)

Random-- Consequence (snake bite victim) Valentine gun shop- buy free( Varmint rifle) maybe

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Bounty Hunting-- Ellie Ann Swan

A Quiet Time- Jail time

Sean item Request-- give whiskey

Charles item Request-- Moonshine

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Exit Pursued By a Bruised a Ego-- Stables (buy Grey Ardennes), talk about Micah, use Varmint rifle to get perfect rabbit pelt. Bear hunt, split up, and Return to camp with Hosea. Save Game

Pearson Rabbit Item Request-- 10:30am-12pm, walk around camp, talk, chores, drink coffee, donate money and watch Pearson. (Swanson will thank Arthur 3 times, then reload game once).

Susan-- item Request-- Herbs

Mary-Beth- item Request-- Pen

Hunting Caliban Seat and Dakota River

(Master Hunter challenge 2)

(Horseman challenge 1)

(Horseman challenge 2)

Give Pearson Rabbit request item-- receive jacket

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Jack Hall Gang Treasure 2-- Caliban's Seat

(Explorer challenge 2)

Random- Sharpshooter (collect little money)

(Sharpshooter challenge 1)

(Stranger) To The End of the Earth

(Herbalist challenge 1)

(Hosea) Spines of America- house robbery and coach robbery

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Mary Linton-- We loved Once and True I-- read letter

Hunting-- Charles

Random- Prison Wagon- kill lawmen with bow, shoot lock and get robbery tip

Charles item request-- give Moonshine

Gun shop Valentine-- buy Springfield Rifle

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Hunting animals and herbs

(Sharpshooter challenge 2)

Susan item Request give Herbs

Lenny- Five Finger Fillet

(Weapon Expert challenge 2). kill 3 animals with throwing knives, it is easier

Castor's Ridge stage 3-- agree to find lumber

Appleseed Timber Company -- stage 2 - tree fall on man

Castor's Ridge stage 3-- buy lumber and return to father

Charles item Request-- give oleander sage

Random- town robbery- Valentine night-- (little money)

Random- Self Defense- Valentine night-- turn in Prostitute to sheriff office (little money)

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(Stranger) Arcadia for Beginners

Random-- Bear trap-- help man-- NW Strawberry

(Stranger) Geology for Beginners

Hunting-- Owanjila Lake- Big Valley for trapper outfits

Legendary Whitetail Buck- Black Bone Forest

Random- Consequence (bear trap man)-- buy expensive outfit from Strawberry store

Bath and hotel overnight

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(Micah) Blessed are the Meek-- talk sheriff first (Arthur acts like a wealthy bounty hunter from Blackwater).

Cattail Pond-- hunting

Random- Treasure Hunter- rob him for High stakes treasure map

High Stakes Treasure 2-- Cumberland Falls

(Explorer challenge 3)

Camp craft-- Big Horn Ram Skull

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(Mary Linton) We Loved Once and True 2

Random- Posse Breakout-- Bill Captured- (little money in camp)

(Mary Linton) We Loved Once and True 3

(Bandit Challenge 1) rob townsfolk at Valentine train platform-- quick getaway

Camp Poker-- Pearson item request-- compass

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Javier--- House Robbery- Chez Porter

(Albert Mason) Arcadia for Beginners II

Watson Cabin-- house robbery 1- only take shotgun in basement

Random-- Gold Panner-- rob him

Vetter's Echo Cabin-- kill bear, and only take watch and pipe

Camp- Ewing basin

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Gunslinger- Flaco Hernandez-- Cairn Lake- cabin Poisonous trail treasure map

Hunt Lake Isabella

High Stakes Treasure 3- Barrow Lagoon

(Explorer challenge 4)

Jack Hall Gang Treasure 3- Cottoro Springs

(Explorer challenge 5)

Jack Hall Gang Treasure 4-- Ocreagh's Run

(Explorer challenge 6)

Camp Dutch Item Request-- give pipe

Camp craft-- Moose Antlers

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Hunting

Camp Craft-- Hanging Bones, Pronghorn Buck Skull,

Javier- item Request-- give Oleander sage

------------------------------------------------------------------------

John-- Pouring Forth Oil I

John -- Pouring Forth Oil II-- steal wagon, Valentine or Oil Refinery. Oil Refinery bow shot at oil wagon, chase horse and wagon (unseen)

Emerald Ranch-- fence sell many items

(Bandit challenge 2)

Central Union Railroad-- stage 1-- Elysian Pool (little money)

Valentine Stable-- buy Dutch Warmblood horse

Castor's Ridge-- get money from father

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Appleseed Timber Company-- stage 3-- kill wolves (little money)

(Micah)-- American Pastoral Scene

Cattail Pond,-- Hunting

(Master Hunter Challenge 3)

Legendary Big Horn Ram-- Cattail Pond

(Weapon Expert challenge 3)

Watson Cabin 3-- House robbery-- kill, hogtie old lady, and take all

Camp Craft-- Elk Antlers, and Wolf skull

Tilly-- Robbery Tip

John-- Pouring Forth Oil III

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(Abigail) A Fisher of Men-- Jack item request--comic book

Jack-- item request-- Thimble

Hunting and fishing Dakota River

(Survivalist challenge 1)

Camp-- Abigail-- item Request-- give $5

(Survivalist challenge 2)

Lenny- Item Request-- give watch

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(John) Pouring Forth Oil IV-- Train Robbery

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Hunting Request 1-- Hunt animals--  Go to Valentine Post Office

(John) Sheep and  Goats

Camp-- overnight in the west

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(Dutch) Strange Kindness

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Psycho18

[Sutliff]

Do you get the glitches when you talk to the Sheriff before talking to Micah and the glitch where if you to To the Ends of the Earth before you do Mary Linton 2?

[Psycho18]

8 minutes ago, Sutliff said:

Do you get the glitches when you talk to the Sheriff before talking to Micah and the glitch where if you to To the Ends of the Earth before you do Mary Linton 2?

I do not get bugs when I talk to the Sheriff before talking to Micah in Blessed. To the End of The Earth will be south of Twin Stack pass, while riding to Emerald Ranch  for Spines of America. I did not know about the glitch with To the End of the Earth.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Psycho18

[Sutliff]

Thats weird for me then.  I couldn't get the cutscene to look right in the sheriffs office other than talking to Micah first. 

 

The initial End of the Earth starts there, but William showed up for me right in front of the Chelonian camp when I did to the ends of the Earth first before Mary Linton, then I had William's dialogue and the Chelonians dialogue going on at the same time.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Sutliff

[Psycho18]

3 minutes ago, Sutliff said:

Thats weird for me then.  I couldn't get the cutscene to look right in the sheriffs office other than talking to Micah first. 

 

The initial End of the Earth starts there, but William showed up for me right in front of the Chelonian camp when I did to the ends of the Earth first before Mary Linton, then I had William's dialogue and the Chelonians dialogue going on at the same time.

That is a weird glitch, William and Chelonian master talking at the same time. I found William up the hill, between T and L of The Heartlands on the big game map.

 

I did get a similar glitch, when I left Ellie Ann Swan wanted poster in the sheriff office in Valentine. I bought a Hogtie prostitute in a random event to the sheriff office. Sheriff Malloy and another Lawman was talking same time. I got a $5 bounty from Sheriff Malloy when I picked the money off the desk from the other lawman. 

[Sutliff]

20 minutes ago, Psycho18 said:

That is a weird glitch, William and Chelonian master talking at the same time. I found William up the hill, between T and L of The Heartlands on the big game map.

 

I did get a similar glitch, when I left Ellie Ann Swan wanted poster in the sheriff office in Valentine. I bought a Hogtie prostitute in a random event to the sheriff office. Sheriff Malloy and another Lawman was talking same time. I got a $5 bounty from Sheriff Malloy when I picked the money off the desk from the other lawman. 

Thats where his mission starts, than he randomly pops up in places.  He spawns on Chelonian Mountain, and he spawns where you fish with Keiran also (He didn't ruin that mission for me though).  I dont know where else he spawns, but I am leaving that whole mission for John so he doesn't pop up elsewhere and ruins a mission.

 

I get that same glitch with the prostitute too.  I never knew how to work around that though.  So if you do the Swan bounty that fixes it?

Edited April 24, 2020 by Sutliff

[Psycho18]

14 minutes ago, Sutliff said:

Thats where his mission starts, than he randomly pops up in places.  He spawns on Chelonian Mountain, and he spawns where you fish with Keiran also (He didn't ruin that mission for me though).  I dont know where else he spawns, but I am leaving that whole mission for John so he doesn't pop up elsewhere and ruins a mission.

 

I get that same glitch with the prostitute too.  I never knew how to work around that though.  So if you do the Swan bounty that fixes it?

Next playthrough, I will do the Swan Bounty before A Quiet Time. I am the end of chapter 2 now. If I reload earlier save, I will lose my 3 star Bull Moose I hunted in Lake Isabella and Cattail Pond. The 3 star Bull Moose takes a long time to find. With or without Bait.

[Mr. Ando]

6 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

I just did a bit of a long test to check something out. I still had a save game at the start of chapter 4. In his savegame I hadn't done any of the bounties that become available in Chapter 4 but had done all of the ones before this.

 

So I reloaded that savegame and quickly did only all the main missions until the epilogue. During the epilogue there is a line during Honest Days Labours which is the 2nd time you meet up with Sadie Adler where John says "I been doing some bounty hunting of my own since we last met. I ain't gonna make a habit of it". This line is meant to only be included if John has done any bounties between the first time he meets Sadie (which is when they unlock for him) and the 2nd and in this case I hadn't done any.

 

The reason why I reloaded the savegame was because I thought it would've been one of the new bounties messing things up. The only one of these available for Arthur is during Chapter 4 - Camille de Millemont. Turns out it must be something else such as an even earlier bounty perhaps or just a new little glitch they have added.

 

The best way to make this make sense is to do a bounty between those first 2 Sadie missions. The ones in Blackwater make no sense because they involve Skinner Brothers and when I did these before the main mission that involves the skinners John still acted like he didn't know who the skinners were during that. And the Foreman bounty in Saint Denis is a bit too far so I think the best one is the new Strawberry bounty - Bart Cavanaugh who is a Laramie gang member and when this becomes available John will already have dealt with the Laramie gang.

I agree this is the best bounty to do

[jimmyoneshot]

9 hours ago, Mr. Ando said:

I agree this is the best bounty to do

True it is. It's a pretty good one too, very stealthy. It's just shame that you can't knock out all 3 of the guys that are guarding him stealthily. I tried it and you can knockout one of them but it only lets you kill the other 2 guys.

[Dan_1983]

I enjoy that bounty myself. My favourite of course is Lindsey Wofford. Bringing him in alive is much better as his dialogue on the way to Saint Denis is quite interesting. Arthur even tells him about Shady Belle haha. Plus killing those chancer bounty hunters is good too. 

[jimmyoneshot]

1 minute ago, Dan_1983 said:

I enjoy that bounty myself. My favourite of course is Lindsey Wofford. Bringing him in alive is much better as his dialogue on the way to Saint Denis is quite interesting. Arthur even tells him about Shady Belle haha. Plus killing those chancer bounty hunters is good too. 

Ye Wofford is a great one too mate. What I like to do is kill everyone except him and then climb the tower that is opposite to the one where he hides. Then I wait for him to take a few shots with his repeater until he has to reload then I rush him with the rope ha

[jimmyoneshot]

Thought I'd share my epilogue order here now. I noticed in the epilogue that John very rarely goes past anywhere of note stranger mission wise, as in stranger missions that are leftover from Chapters 1 - 6. This never made a difference to me because I never had anything leftover but I'm just mentioning it. So there isn't much to do for him besides main missions. Even the John only stranger mission 'American Inferno' is quite out the way at a place where John never goes in the story. Anyway here's my order:-

 

- The Wheel

- Simple Pleasures

- Fatherhood For Beginners

- Farming For Beginners

- Old Habits

- Jim Milton Rides, Again

- Fatherhood For Idiots

- Motherhood

- The Landowning Classes

- Home of The Gentry

- Gainful Employment

- < Bounty - Bart Cavanaugh >

- Bare Knuckle Friendships

- Home Improvement For Beginners

- An Honest Day's Labors

- The Tool Box

- A New Jerusalem

- A Quick Favor For An Old Friend

- Uncle's Bad Day

- A Really Big Bastard

- Trying Again

- A New Future Imagined

- American Venom

 

And my reasons for anyone who is interested. I put them in a spoiler to save space:-

 

Spoiler

There are 5 points in the epilogue where you have the choice of doing one mission or the other first so I've shown these below and why it seems that one should go before the other to me:-

 

Farming For Beginners OR Fatherhood For Beginners

 

Whichever one you choose, at the end of that mission the day ends and a cutscene plays where it shows John and Abigail waking up the next morning in which Abigail says she is going to work at the Doctor's office and leaves. 

 

The problem with this though is during Fatherhood For Beginners after John has calmed the horse 'Jeremiah' and birthed the foal which all takes no time at all he returns to the house as part of the mission and Abigail is there making the bed so if you do this mission 2nd she should be at the Doctors Office working when suddenly she's back making the bed as if she has only just got up. Therefore I think:-

 

Fatherhood For Beginners > Farming For Beginners

 

Fatherhood For Idiots OR Jim Milton Rides, Again

 

After both of these missions are done Abigail leaves John. At the end of Jim Milton Rides again Abigail is just a bit upset with John and John i angry at her for it whereas after Fatherhood For Idiots Abigail is totally dismayed that Jack has been right next to a shootout and that seems like the last straw and John even seems guilty at the end of this. So I think:-

 

Jim Milton Rides, Again > Fatherhood For Idiots

 

Gainful Employment OR The Landowning Classes

 

This one is quite straightforward, in a mission that comes later 'Honest Days Labors' Sadie talks about Uncle being at John's ranch which he only tells her about in Gainful Employment IF Landowning Classes has ben done before that otherwise he doesn't tell her because he doesn't actually meet Uncle until the end of Landowning Classes so it's:-

 

The Landowning Classes > Gainful Employment

 

An Honest Day's Labors OR Home Improvement For Beginners

 

This is a strange one because after these have both been done the next mission that unlocks is Tool Box which involves John buying stuff from Blackwater and then Manzanita post to build the ranch so I thought it made sense to do Home Improvement directly before this because that is where they tear down the old building and Uncle tells John about where to buy the stuff in Blackwater.

 

However I noticed 2 things - firstly when you start 'The Toolbox' time resets to 6am in Blackwater and secondly at the end of the mission Uncle is in a different set of clothes from during Home Improvement so it seems they are on separate days. I noticed that An Honest Days Labors always resets time to night so it is about 11pm when you get back to Blackwater so it seemed like a good option to me to do Home Improvement For Beginners followed by An Honest Day's Labour and then sleep in the Blackwater saloon before doing The Toolbox at 6am so I THINK:-

 

Home Improvement For Beginners > An Honest Day's Labors

 

Trying Again OR A Really Big Bastard

 

The start of Really Big Bastard has John walking into the house and speaking to Abigail as if this is the first time he has had a personal 1 to 1 conversation with her in a while and they are both very happy however at the end of Trying Again Rufus the dog gets sick and Jack is crying and then the day fast forwards to the next day so this conversation with Abigail would make no sense after that. Jack also seems pretty happy at the start of Big Bastard too so the same thing applies. Also doing Big Bastard first doesn't fast forward time so you can do Big Bastard and then ride back to the ranch to do Trying Again later that day which flows well. So I think:-

 

A Really Big Bastard > Trying Again

 

Bounties

 

There seems to be a glitch in the game where John acts like he has done a bounty between the first 2 Sadie missions when he speaks to Sadie during Honest Days Labors even if he hasn't so it's best to do one between these. The Foreman Bounty seems too far away and the Blackwater bounties start with Skinner bounties which make no sense to do early because John acts like he doesn't know who the Skinners are during The Toolbox no matter what. So the best one seems to be the Bart Cavanaugh one in Strawberry which is a very simple and easy one.

 

After Uncle is rescued in 'Uncle's Bad Day' Abigail arrives so it is unlikely that John would be doing the skinner bounties until after the epilogue. When him and Charles go to rescue Uncle they are very wary which wouldn't make sense if John had already been there doing the Skinner bounties.

 

[Mr. Ando]

17 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Thought I'd share my epilogue order here now. I noticed in the epilogue that John very rarely goes past anywhere of note stranger mission wise, as in stranger missions that are leftover from Chapters 1 - 6. This never made a difference to me because I never had anything leftover but I'm just mentioning it. So there isn't much to do for him besides main missions. Even the John only stranger mission 'American Inferno' is quite out the way at a place where John never goes in the story. Anyway here's my order:-

 

- The Wheel

- Simple Pleasures

- Fatherhood For Beginners

- Farming For Beginners

- Old Habits

- Jim Milton Rides, Again

- Fatherhood For Idiots

- Motherhood

- The Landowning Classes

- Home of The Gentry

- Gainful Employment

- < Bounty - Bart Cavanaugh >

- Bare Knuckle Friendships

- Home Improvement For Beginners

- An Honest Day's Labors

- The Tool Box

- A New Jerusalem

- A Quick Favor For An Old Friend

- Uncle's Bad Day

- A Really Big Bastard

- Trying Again

- A New Future Imagined

- American Venom

 

And my reasons for anyone who is interested. I put them in a spoiler to save space:-

 

  Reveal hidden contents

There are 5 points in the epilogue where you have the choice of doing one mission or the other first so I've shown these below and why it seems that one should go before the other to me:-

 

Farming For Beginners OR Fatherhood For Beginners

 

Whichever one you choose, at the end of that mission the day ends and a cutscene plays where it shows John and Abigail waking up the next morning in which Abigail says she is going to work at the Doctor's office and leaves. 

 

The problem with this though is during Fatherhood For Beginners after John has calmed the horse 'Jeremiah' and birthed the foal which all takes no time at all he returns to the house as part of the mission and Abigail is there making the bed so if you do this mission 2nd she should be at the Doctors Office working when suddenly she's back making the bed as if she has only just got up. Therefore I think:-

 

Fatherhood For Beginners > Farming For Beginners

 

Fatherhood For Idiots OR Jim Milton Rides, Again

 

After both of these missions are done Abigail leaves John. At the end of Jim Milton Rides again Abigail is just a bit upset with John and John i angry at her for it whereas after Fatherhood For Idiots Abigail is totally dismayed that Jack has been right next to a shootout and that seems like the last straw and John even seems guilty at the end of this. So I think:-

 

Jim Milton Rides, Again > Fatherhood For Idiots

 

Gainful Employment OR The Landowning Classes

 

This one is quite straightforward, in a mission that comes later 'Honest Days Labors' Sadie talks about Uncle being at John's ranch which he only tells her about in Gainful Employment IF Landowning Classes has ben done before that otherwise he doesn't tell her because he doesn't actually meet Uncle until the end of Landowning Classes so it's:-

 

The Landowning Classes > Gainful Employment

 

An Honest Day's Labors OR Home Improvement For Beginners

 

This is a strange one because after these have both been done the next mission that unlocks is Tool Box which involves John buying stuff from Blackwater and then Manzanita post to build the ranch so I thought it made sense to do Home Improvement directly before this because that is where they tear down the old building and Uncle tells John about where to buy the stuff in Blackwater.

 

However I noticed 2 things - firstly when you start 'The Toolbox' time resets to 6am in Blackwater and secondly at the end of the mission Uncle is in a different set of clothes from during Home Improvement so it seems they are on separate days. I noticed that An Honest Days Labors always resets time to night so it is about 11pm when you get back to Blackwater so it seemed like a good option to me to do Home Improvement For Beginners followed by An Honest Day's Labour and then sleep in the Blackwater saloon before doing The Toolbox at 6am so I THINK:-

 

Home Improvement For Beginners > An Honest Day's Labors

 

Trying Again OR A Really Big Bastard

 

The start of Really Big Bastard has John walking into the house and speaking to Abigail as if this is the first time he has had a personal 1 to 1 conversation with her in a while and they are both very happy however at the end of Trying Again Rufus the dog gets sick and Jack is crying and then the day fast forwards to the next day so this conversation with Abigail would make no sense after that. Jack also seems pretty happy at the start of Big Bastard too so the same thing applies. Also doing Big Bastard first doesn't fast forward time so you can do Big Bastard and then ride back to the ranch to do Trying Again later that day which flows well. So I think:-

 

A Really Big Bastard > Trying Again

 

Bounties

 

There seems to be a glitch in the game where John acts like he has done a bounty between the first 2 Sadie missions when he speaks to Sadie during Honest Days Labors even if he hasn't so it's best to do one between these. The Foreman Bounty seems too far away and the Blackwater bounties start with Skinner bounties which make no sense to do early because John acts like he doesn't know who the Skinners are during The Toolbox no matter what. So the best one seems to be the Bart Cavanaugh one in Strawberry which is a very simple and easy one.

 

After Uncle is rescued in 'Uncle's Bad Day' Abigail arrives so it is unlikely that John would be doing the skinner bounties until after the epilogue. When him and Charles go to rescue Uncle they are very wary which wouldn't make sense if John had already been there doing the Skinner bounties.

 

Awesome, I can´t wait to see your full list!

[jimmyoneshot]

Having another little look at Chapter 2 yet again. Not really changing much just some small things.

 

I wanted a way to include the first part of the Central Union Railroad Encounters. The first part is nearby the trapper that you can sell to after Exit Pursued.

 

I am also looking at testing out Without Sin as the 1st and only main mission on day 1 and then At Rest as the only main mission on the 2nd day ( @MatthewJAli I think you do the same and suggested this ). This actually flows quite well and doesn't make much difference story wise because in my mind First Shall Be The Last should be the day after At Rest which it still will be.

 

One thing I've noticed doing this is that if you leave camp on the first day and then return Micah and Lenny are gone and Miss Grimshaw walks right up to Arthur as soon as you enter camp and asks Arthur how he got on out there and tells him about Lenny and Micah being sent scouting west. She doesn't do this if you are carrying an animal however which is silly.

 

EDIT

 

Actually I'm starting to notice that the Grimshaw approaching you part is pretty random like a lot of interactions so it doesn't seem as reliable as I thought. For example last time I left camp and returned Mary-Beth approached me rather than Grimshaw.

Edited April 27, 2020 by jimmyoneshot

[Cymro-MJ]

43 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Having another little look at Chapter 2 yet again. Not really changing much just some small things.

 

I wanted a way to include the first part of the Central Union Railroad Encounters. The first part is nearby the trapper that you can sell to after Exit Pursued.

 

I am also looking at testing out Without Sin as the 1st and only main mission on day 1 and then At Rest as the only main mission on the 2nd day ( @MatthewJAli I think you do the same and suggested this ). This actually flows quite well and doesn't make much difference story wise because in my mind First Shall Be The Last should be the day after At Rest which it still will be.

 

One thing I've noticed doing this is that if you leave camp on the first day and then return Micah and Lenny are gone and Miss Grimshaw walks right up to Arthur as soon as you enter camp and asks Arthur how he got on out there and tells him about Lenny and Micah being sent scouting west. She doesn't do this if you are carrying an animal however which is silly.

Yes mate that was me. It just makes sense in so many ways. However can respect there's valid arguments for Americans at Rest and Polite Society.

 

I tend to do the first railroad encounter in Chapter 2 and leave the remaining ones for later on in the story. I think in the second encounter Arthur mentions his run in with Cornwall so it's always best to leave that until after The Sheep and the Goats, imo.

[jimmyoneshot]

2 minutes ago, MatthewJAli said:

Yes mate that was me. It just makes sense in so many ways. However can respect there's valid arguments for Americans at Rest and Polite Society.

 

I tend to do the first railroad encounter in Chapter 2 and leave the remaining ones for later on in the story. I think in the second encounter Arthur mentions his run in with Cornwall so it's always best to leave that until after The Sheep and the Goats, imo.

True mate it does. Bear in mind that I originally thought that Polite Society should be first so I'm always open to changing things as long as there is good evidence. Like in this case for example - I always thought it felt strange leaving the gang overnight in Valentine but after my last playthrough of the full game I noticed there are a couple of times where it actually makes sense to leave people at places overnight. For example Dutch in Guarma when you do Savagery Unleashed before going to meet him which dialogue and story wise is the only option that makes sense, that leaves him overnight. Also in Chapter 6 when you get the letter to do Course Of True Love and do that because it fits to do straight away story wise while Micah and Bill go to check out Van Horn that leaves them overnight.

 

It also seems like a basic tutorial for interacting with npcs and stuff. Another thing I noticed in my last playthrough is that if you leave those screens where Arthur has the option to Accept or Reject someone before it selects an option for you, that it makes some very strange choices by default. I used to think that as long as his honor was high that these were the canon choices but now I'm not so sure. For example in Without Sin the default one is to not play poker but if you don't play poker you see the Reverend crawling out the room behind you and literally within seconds he has managed to get involved in a fight. It seems more like the best option is to select to play poker because that would give him time to do that and would kind of explain why time gets set to 5pm when it finishes.

 

Yep I noticed that he mentions Cornwall too in the 2nd encounter which only makes sense at least after Chapter 2. I did a quick test by camping for 2 days after part 1 and part 2 wasn't activating so it may actually only become available after Chapter 2.

[KKs_Grandma]

3 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Having another little look at Chapter 2 yet again. Not really changing much just some small things.

 

I wanted a way to include the first part of the Central Union Railroad Encounters. The first part is nearby the trapper that you can sell to after Exit Pursued.

 

I am also looking at testing out Without Sin as the 1st and only main mission on day 1 and then At Rest as the only main mission on the 2nd day ( @MatthewJAli I think you do the same and suggested this ). This actually flows quite well and doesn't make much difference story wise because in my mind First Shall Be The Last should be the day after At Rest which it still will be.

 

One thing I've noticed doing this is that if you leave camp on the first day and then return Micah and Lenny are gone and Miss Grimshaw walks right up to Arthur as soon as you enter camp and asks Arthur how he got on out there and tells him about Lenny and Micah being sent scouting west. She doesn't do this if you are carrying an animal however which is silly.

 

EDIT

 

Actually I'm starting to notice that the Grimshaw approaching you part is pretty random like a lot of interactions so it doesn't seem as reliable as I thought. For example last time I left camp and returned Mary-Beth approached me rather than Grimshaw.

The main reason I don't like doing Without Sin first is this means Arthur is ignoring what Hosea said for most of the day by not doing anything he mentioned.  I just don't feel he would do that which is the same reason I don't do Polite Society first.  It's like Arthur is saying to Hosea, "Ok, thanks but I'm not going to do anything you mentioned until I feel like it."

[jimmyoneshot]

 

3 hours ago, KKs_Grandma said:

The main reason I don't like doing Without Sin first is this means Arthur is ignoring what Hosea said for most of the day by not doing anything he mentioned.  I just don't feel he would do that which is the same reason I don't do Polite Society first.  It's like Arthur is saying to Hosea, "Ok, thanks but I'm not going to do anything you mentioned until I feel like it."

I know what you mean Grandma. Just something I'm testing out at the moment to see how it fits in 

 

I think when Hosea tells you about the 3 leads - Swanson, Valentine and the Debt Collecting, he is quite chilled out about it and puts it across as leads that Arthur should look into soon. Bear in mind also that At Rest actually unlocks Money Lending as well as several other things which advance the story so out of the 3 you only initially have 2 options - Swanson or Valentine with the guys.

 

The other option is Polite Society which is available from the start but in this Arthur is looking for leads in town with Uncle and the girls which is strange considering he already has a lead in town with the guys. So that kind of only makes sense at some point after At Rest has been done.

 

What I'm thinking at the moment is - Arthur goes to the station to check on the Reverend but ends up playing poker anyway (which explains why the mission ends late in the day), Without Sin always ends at 5pm so when Arthur gets back to camp it will be almost 6pm. Then he will head into Valentine the next morning. After the fight with Tommy he does some general stuff while the gang is checking out Blackwater - gets a bath, meets the father and sons at castor's ridge for the first time on the way back to camp, also picks up the first murder map piece on the way and washes his horse in the river for the first time which is dirty at this point. Then he could hunt a deer and bring it back to Pearson. After all this is done it should be quite late in the day.

[KKs_Grandma]

12 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

 

I know what you mean Grandma. Just something I'm testing out at the moment to see how it fits in 

 

I think when Hosea tells you about the 3 leads - Swanson, Valentine and the Debt Collecting, he is quite chilled out about it and puts it across as leads that Arthur should look into soon. Bear in mind also that At Rest actually unlocks Money Lending as well as several other things which advance the story so out of the 3 you only initially have 2 options - Swanson or Valentine with the guys.

 

The other option is Polite Society which is available from the start but in this Arthur is looking for leads in town with Uncle and the girls which is strange considering he already has a lead in town with the guys. So that kind of only makes sense at some point after At Rest has been done.

 

What I'm thinking at the moment is - Arthur goes to the station to check on the Reverend but ends up playing poker anyway (which explains why the mission ends late in the day), Without Sin always ends at 5pm so when Arthur gets back to camp it will be almost 6pm. Then he will head into Valentine the next morning. After the fight with Tommy he does some general stuff while the gang is checking out Blackwater - gets a bath, meets the father and sons at castor's ridge for the first time on the way back to camp, also picks up the first murder map piece on the way and washes his horse in the river for the first time which is dirty at this point. Then he could hunt a deer and bring it back to Pearson. After all this is done it should be quite late in the day.

So, in this scenario with Swanson, do chores and talk to everyone in camp and then go to the station around noon, play a few hand then get the Reverend?

Edited April 28, 2020 by KKs_Grandma
I think this would work for me. :)

[jimmyoneshot]

15 minutes ago, KKs_Grandma said:

So, in this scenario with Swanson, do chores and talk to everyone in camp and then go to the station around noon, play a few hand then get the Reverend?

Ye I think so because those first chores before leaving camp have a few little conversations that you can listen in on such as - Sadie throwing food on the ground in front of Kieran, Lenny telling Hosea what he found when he was out scouting, Abigail trying to console Sadie and Hosea telling John that he needs to rest some more, Micah pointing a gun at Arthur joking around. These all feel interesting to listen in on ha.

 

It's just a thought at the moment and doesn't really change much because I think either way works fine for me - At Rest and Without Sin on day 1 and First Shall be Last on Day 2 OR Without Sin on Day 1, At Rest on Day 2 and First Shall Be Last on Day 3.

Edited April 28, 2020 by jimmyoneshot

[Pymmy8]

I personally don’t mind leaving First shall be Last for two nights as the boys have a proper tent set up, if you look inside there is even a bedside table. That seems excessive for an overnight stay. Also as mentioned before in this thread when Arthur arrives this is the second time Trelawney has been into Blackwater. So I like to think they arrive on the same evening as the fight, Trelawney goes and scouts the next day and then you arrive the morning after that.
 

I usually do this as I try to slot Exit in earlier as I just can’t leave Hosea sitting there for days on end.

 

My order looks like this:

 

Polite Society

Snake Oil

———————

Americans

Exit

———————

Without Sin

———————

First shall be Last

———————

 

But that’s just my two cents

[KKs_Grandma]

9 minutes ago, Pymmy8 said:

I personally don’t mind leaving First shall be Last for two nights as the boys have a proper tent set up, if you look inside there is even a bedside table. That seems excessive for an overnight stay. Also as mentioned before in this thread when Arthur arrives this is the second time Trelawney has been into Blackwater. So I like to think they arrive on the same evening as the fight, Trelawney goes and scouts the next day and then you arrive the morning after that.
 

I usually do this as I try to slot Exit in earlier as I just can’t leave Hosea sitting there for days on end.

 

My order looks like this:

 

Polite Society

Snake Oil

———————

Americans

Exit

———————

Without Sin

———————

First shall be Last

———————

 

But that’s just my two cents

My thinking also about First Shall Be Last.  I do Money Lending between Americans and First Shall Be Last so I get all the missions Hosea mentioned done.

[jimmyoneshot]

42 minutes ago, Pymmy8 said:

I personally don’t mind leaving First shall be Last for two nights as the boys have a proper tent set up, if you look inside there is even a bedside table. That seems excessive for an overnight stay. Also as mentioned before in this thread when Arthur arrives this is the second time Trelawney has been into Blackwater. So I like to think they arrive on the same evening as the fight, Trelawney goes and scouts the next day and then you arrive the morning after that.
 

I usually do this as I try to slot Exit in earlier as I just can’t leave Hosea sitting there for days on end.

 

My order looks like this:

 

Polite Society

Snake Oil

———————

Americans

Exit

———————

Without Sin

———————

First shall be Last

———————

 

But that’s just my two cents

Good point Pymmy8. I think that camp they used is likely just a generic camp object that Rockstar used in the game though i.e. they likely just copied and pasted it from elsewhere haha but good spot nonetheless. However I kind of think that Arthur would give the guys just long enough to check the place out i.e. afternoon/evening, overnight and the morning before he gets there himself especially since if you speak to Dutch (which we know Arthur usually does) at any point after At Rest he kind of wants you to deal with that asap - "When are you going to meet Trelawny and the others? If there's a chance to get to Sean..." to which Arthur says "I know, I know. I'm on it I promise". It feels weird doing anything else after this although Rockstar did make the option available so it's all up to the individual.

 

I used to do something similar with Polite Society but had some issues with it gameplay wise as well as dialogue wise such as Arthur not having a horse after Polite Society so he'd have to steal one when we hadn't even learned about wanted levels yet (which we do in Without Sin) or he'd have to run to Snake Oil.

 

And as I'm sure you've read it seems like there is a lot of dialogue in Exit Pursued in which Hosea and Arthur talk about several of the other missions which suggests they should be done before this including Quiet Time. I think Hosea sitting there is kind of a gamey thing because a lot of characters are left in the spots that trigger their missions 24/7 throughout the game.

[Cymro-MJ]

7 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Ye I think so because those first chores before leaving camp have a few little conversations that you can listen in on such as - Sadie throwing food on the ground in front of Kieran, Lenny telling Hosea what he found when he was out scouting, Abigail trying to console Sadie and Hosea telling John that he needs to rest some more, Micah pointing a gun at Arthur joking around. These all feel interesting to listen in on ha.

 

It's just a thought at the moment and doesn't really change much because I think either way works fine for me - At Rest and Without Sin on day 1 and First Shall be Last on Day 2 OR Without Sin on Day 1, At Rest on Day 2 and First Shall Be Last on Day 3.

Yep, there's lots of very interesting dialogue in camp on the first day. It's why I tend to do chores and interact with people so I don't miss them, haha.

[Psycho18]

14 hours ago, Pymmy8 said:

I personally don’t mind leaving First shall be Last for two nights as the boys have a proper tent set up, if you look inside there is even a bedside table. That seems excessive for an overnight stay. Also as mentioned before in this thread when Arthur arrives this is the second time Trelawney has been into Blackwater. So I like to think they arrive on the same evening as the fight, Trelawney goes and scouts the next day and then you arrive the morning after that.
 

I usually do this as I try to slot Exit in earlier as I just can’t leave Hosea sitting there for days on end.

 

My order looks like this:

 

Polite Society

Snake Oil

———————

Americans

Exit

———————

Without Sin

———————

First shall be Last

———————

 

But that’s just my two cents

Good order,

Polite Society has the dialogue to back up the evidence to being the 1st mission of chapter 2. The ladies talks about being in camp for 2 weeks, snow on mountains, and this a good looking small town. The ladies dialogue does not make sense if you place Polite Society some time later in chapter 2. Arthur knows the gang needs money, he says to Uncle you want to head into town to find what we can. Ladies did find info about the train and bank robberies. Uncle gives directions to Valentine. Again this dialogue does not make sense if Arthur been to Valentine already. In town, Arthur says to the ladies keep a low profile and don't get yourself notice. The ladies says are you going to keep a low profile, and Arthur says( Probably Not). I capitalized probably not, because Arthur did not start any trouble yet. Again, Probably Not statement does not make sense if Arthur already did some fighting at the bar doing American at Rest or free roam.

 

Without Sin should be early afternoon on day 1 of chapter 2. Arthur needs to head back to camp after Polite Society to realize Swanson is not in camp yet. If lucky, Susan might tell Arthur that Micah and Lenny went scouting west, but this is random. Arthur heads to Flatneck Station to find Swanson. Arthur then decides to play a little poker to give Swanson the chance to crawl out the door and get into fight with a big dude outside.

 

Snake Oil can be done early morning on day 2 of chapter 2. Arthur needs the money.  I do not see any evidence in the dialogue that points to American at Rest being the first mission in day 1 of chapter 2.  American at Rest can be placed in the early afternoon on day 2. The boys not in Valentine to gather info or leads. In the cutscene, Charles and Javier are drinking and very close to the prostitutes and Bill stumbles into the saloon like a drunken fool and starts a fight. Dutch told Arthur to get cleaned up and meet Charles, Javier and Trelawny in Blackwater when he is ready for First shall be Last. Rescue Sean is the top propriety on day 3.

 

Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego should be placed some time later in  chapter 2. Also,  have dialogues that is connected to couple missions in chapter 1 (Enter to pursued by a memory, Rescue John, and Who the Hell is Leviticus Cornwall train robbery-- bail bonds). Also, this mission connects some dialogues from missions of chapter 2 (bail bonds, Micah in jail, Lenny and Arthur's drinking party in A Quiet Time), (bar fight in American at Rest), (Arthur and John's relationship in Paying a Social Call). Some dialogue about making some money and try to get back on our feet. Dutch and Hosea has different opinions about how fast or slow the gang is trying to get back on their feet.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Psycho18

[Sutliff]

27 minutes ago, Psycho18 said:

Good order,

Polite Society has the dialogue to back up the evidence to being the 1st mission of chapter 2. The ladies talks about being in camp for 2 weeks, snow on mountains, and this a good looking small town. The ladies dialogue does not make sense if you place Polite Society some time later in chapter 2. Arthur knows the gang needs money, he says to Uncle you want to head into town to find what we can. Ladies did find info about the train and bank robberies. Uncle gives directions to Valentine. Again this dialogue does not make sense if Arthur been to Valentine already. In town, Arthur says to the ladies keep a low profile and don't get yourself notice. The ladies says are you going to keep a low profile, and Arthur says( Probably Not). I capitalized probably not, because Arthur did not start any trouble yet. Again, Probably Not statement does not make sense if Arthur already did some fighting at the bar doing American at Rest or free roam.

 

Without Sin should be early afternoon on day 1 of chapter 2. Arthur needs to head back to camp after Polite Society to realize Swanson is not in camp yet. If lucky, Susan might tell Arthur that Micah and Lenny went scouting west, but this is random. Arthur heads to Flatneck Station to find Swanson. Arthur then decides to play a little poker to give Swanson the chance to crawl out the door and get into fight with a big dude outside.

 

Snake Oil can be done early morning on day 2 of chapter 2. Arthur needs the money.  I do not see any evidence in the dialogue that points to American at Rest being the first mission in day 1 of chapter 2.  American at Rest can be placed in the early afternoon on day 2. The boys not in Valentine to gather info or leads. In the cutscene, Charles and Javier are drinking and very close to the prostitutes and Bill stumbles into the saloon like a drunken fool and starts a fight. Dutch told Arthur to get cleaned up and meet Charles, Javier and Trelawny in Blackwater when he is ready for First shall be Last. Rescue Sean is the top propriety on day 3.

 

Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego should be placed some time later in  chapter 2. Also,  have dialogues that is connected to couple missions in chapter 1 (Enter to pursued by a memory, Rescue John, and Who the Hell is Leviticus Cornwall train robbery-- bail bonds). Also, this mission connects some dialogues from missions of chapter 2 (bail bonds, Micah in jail, Lenny and Arthur's drinking party in A Quiet Time), (bar fight in American at Rest), (Arthur and John's relationship in Paying a Social Call). Some dialogue about making some money and try to get back on our feet. Dutch and Hosea has different opinions about how fast or slow the gang is trying to get back on their feet.

The major problem with Polite Society has been how are you getting back to camp.  That's the main reason why I always leave it deep in Chapter 2, plus I like how it set up's Pouring Forth Oil and that is deep in Chapter 2.

[Psycho18]

16 minutes ago, Sutliff said:

The major problem with Polite Society has been how are you getting back to camp.  That's the main reason why I always leave it deep in Chapter 2, plus I like how it set up's Pouring Forth Oil and that is deep in Chapter 2.

I run back to camp after Polite Society on day 1 to get Susan's dialogue about Micah and Lenny scouting West and going to Flatneck Station to find Swanson. I only care about the dialogue in Polite Society.

 

After Thinking about it, you can place Polite Society after Bruised Ego. At the end Polite Society Arthur is in Valentine without a horse. Then Arthur can go to the stables to buy a new horse or have the stables get your horse from the camp.

 

I don't like stealing horses because the stolen horses will be the temporary horse, and likely be left running around the wild or camp. When you whistle for your primary horse the temp horse would follow you everywhere too  In Bruised Ego, Arthur and Hosea talks about Arthur only having 2 horses at the time of the mission.

[jimmyoneshot]

42 minutes ago, Psycho18 said:

Good order,

Polite Society has the dialogue to back up the evidence to being the 1st mission of chapter 2. The ladies talks about being in camp for 2 weeks, snow on mountains, and this a good looking small town. The ladies dialogue does not make sense if you place Polite Society some time later in chapter 2. Arthur knows the gang needs money, he says to Uncle you want to head into town to find what we can. Ladies did find info about the train and bank robberies. Uncle gives directions to Valentine. Again this dialogue does not make sense if Arthur been to Valentine already. In town, Arthur says to the ladies keep a low profile and don't get yourself notice. The ladies says are you going to keep a low profile, and Arthur says( Probably Not). I capitalized probably not, because Arthur did not start any trouble yet. Again, Probably Not statement does not make sense if Arthur already did some fighting at the bar doing American at Rest or free roam.

 

Without Sin should be early afternoon on day 1 of chapter 2. Arthur needs to head back to camp after Polite Society to realize Swanson is not in camp yet. If lucky, Susan might tell Arthur that Micah and Lenny went scouting west, but this is random. Arthur heads to Flatneck Station to find Swanson. Arthur then decides to play a little poker to give Swanson the chance to crawl out the door and get into fight with a big dude outside.

 

Snake Oil can be done early morning on day 2 of chapter 2. Arthur needs the money.  I do not see any evidence in the dialogue that points to American at Rest being the first mission in day 1 of chapter 2.  American at Rest can be placed in the early afternoon on day 2. The boys not in Valentine to gather info or leads. In the cutscene, Charles and Javier are drinking and very close to the prostitutes and Bill stumbles into the saloon like a drunken fool and starts a fight. Dutch told Arthur to get cleaned up and meet Charles, Javier and Trelawny in Blackwater when he is ready for First shall be Last. Rescue Sean is the top propriety on day 3.

 

Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego should be placed some time later in  chapter 2. Also,  have dialogues that is connected to couple missions in chapter 1 (Enter to pursued by a memory, Rescue John, and Who the Hell is Leviticus Cornwall train robbery-- bail bonds). Also, this mission connects some dialogues from missions of chapter 2 (bail bonds, Micah in jail, Lenny and Arthur's drinking party in A Quiet Time), (bar fight in American at Rest), (Arthur and John's relationship in Paying a Social Call). Some dialogue about making some money and try to get back on our feet. Dutch and Hosea has different opinions about how fast or slow the gang is trying to get back on their feet.

Good points bud and also remember for a long time I felt like that was the first mission too ha. What I would say is they left Polite Society and At Rest so ambiguous dialogue wise that they support multiple orders which was no doubt their intention and I believe there isn't anything huge in any of these early orders which interrupts the story too much or makes it nonsensical. But I always believe that they originally had a set order that they filmed and made everything for and then afterwards made certain missions completely random order wise to allow for more player choice and tweaked certain bits of dialogue and cutscenes within them to reflect this. This is why I always feel that Arthur's lips being synched with "ye you'll see real civilised" in the opening cutscene of PSVS holds a lot of weight because it kind of indicates that was the original order and then they tweaked it based on what the player has or hasn't done by dubbing over it.

 

Regarding the leads aspect I believe that At Rest was about finding leads in Valentine but the gang ended up drinking which is how they find leads most of the time (it's how Javier hears about the home robbery you do with him, Micah does the same in Strawberry, Dutch gets the sheriff drunk and Bill drinks with the Grays in Chapter 3 to get leads) i.e. Hosea says that there's a "town called Valentine which seems like a good place to start" before Chapter 2 starts and then says "some of the boys are already in Valentine" at the start of Chapter 2. Even though 2 weeks has passed he is still giving Arthur 3 things to look into based on what he said previously. It's also kind of why it makes sense that Arthur ends up playing poker which I agree with you on because that acts as a poker tutorial and gives Swanson time to get into that fight. Arthur is shown to be a hypocrite, easily distracted and needs to be kicked up the arse and dragged along complaining sometimes such as in Chapter 1 when Javier makes him come and look for John.

 

As for Uncle's dialogue I'd say all he really says is "go right here, it's quicker", "go left here, down the main street" and "Sheriff's office on the right" which I feel kind of makes sense whether the player has been to Valentine or not. Also note that there are some strange bits of dialogue later on too where gang members direct to places during missions you even though you have literally been there before in missions required to unlock that mission. For example check out 12:08 in this video of Preaching Forgiveness. Lenny weirdly directs Arthur to camp even though this mission is a long way into Chapter 3:-

 

https://youtu.be/Srs6XhBJGAs?t=728

 

 

And I think the dialogue from the girls in Polite Society actually can reflect the other way too i.e. Arthur tells them about the fight on the ride out and then being the hypocrite that he is tells them to not get themselves noticed to which she says "will you remember that though Arthur?" knowing about the fight he got into and he says "Probably not" meaning well I never last time I was here. Although this can also indicate she knows what Arthur is like. It also explains why him and Uncle don't go into the saloon which they surely would. The general store owner also mentions the fight during this mission and he never does this at any other time even if you do At Rest later and go to his store. I think Arthur and Uncle falling asleep and having some hair of the dog kind of indicates they are hungover from Sean's party too which I think was the night before.

 

I'm 100% with you about Exit Pursued though ha. Sorry for yet another long post.

[Sutliff]

1 hour ago, Psycho18 said:

I run back to camp after Polite Society on day 1 to get Susan's dialogue about Micah and Lenny scouting West and going to Flatneck Station to find Swanson. I only care about the dialogue in Polite Society.

 

After Thinking about it, you can place Polite Society after Bruised Ego. At the end Polite Society Arthur is in Valentine without a horse. Then Arthur can go to the stables to buy a new horse or have the stables get your horse from the camp.

 

I don't like stealing horses because the stolen horses will be the temporary horse, and likely be left running around the wild or camp. When you whistle for your primary horse the temp horse would follow you everywhere too  In Bruised Ego, Arthur and Hosea talks about Arthur only having 2 horses at the time of the mission.

That was how I did my order, was placing it behind a Bruised Ego, but then one thing led to another and the further Polite Society dropped.  Buying the best horse in Bruised Ego was a major sticking point, and doing Paying a Social Call was extremely important to do before a Bruised Ego because of the amount of money you get.

[Psycho18]

58 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Good points bud and also remember for a long time I felt like that was the first mission too ha. What I would say is they left Polite Society and At Rest so ambiguous dialogue wise that they support multiple orders which was no doubt their intention and I believe there isn't anything huge in any of these early orders which interrupts the story too much or makes it nonsensical. But I always believe that they originally had a set order that they filmed and made everything for and then afterwards made certain missions completely random order wise to allow for more player choice and tweaked certain bits of dialogue and cutscenes within them to reflect this. This is why I always feel that Arthur's lips being synched with "ye you'll see real civilised" in the opening cutscene of PSVS holds a lot of weight because it kind of indicates that was the original order and then they tweaked it based on what the player has or hasn't done by dubbing over it.

 

Regarding the leads aspect I believe that At Rest was about finding leads in Valentine but the gang ended up drinking which is how they find leads most of the time (it's how Javier hears about the home robbery you do with him, Micah does the same in Strawberry, Dutch gets the sheriff drunk and Bill drinks with the Grays in Chapter 3 to get leads) i.e. Hosea says that there's a "town called Valentine which seems like a good place to start" before Chapter 2 starts and then says "some of the boys are already in Valentine" at the start of Chapter 2. Even though 2 weeks has passed he is still giving Arthur 3 things to look into based on what he said previously. It's also kind of why it makes sense that Arthur ends up playing poker which I agree with you on because that acts as a poker tutorial and gives Swanson time to get into that fight. Arthur is shown to be a hypocrite, easily distracted and needs to be kicked up the arse and dragged along complaining sometimes such as in Chapter 1 when Javier makes him come and look for John.

 

As for Uncle's dialogue I'd say all he really says is "go right here, it's quicker", "go left here, down the main street" and "Sheriff's office on the right" which I feel kind of makes sense whether the player has been to Valentine or not. Also note that there are some strange bits of dialogue later on too where gang members direct to places during missions you even though you have literally been there before in missions required to unlock that mission. For example check out 12:08 in this video of Preaching Forgiveness. Lenny weirdly directs Arthur to camp even though this mission is a long way into Chapter 3:-

 

https://youtu.be/Srs6XhBJGAs?t=728

 

 

And I think the dialogue from the girls in Polite Society actually can reflect the other way too i.e. Arthur tells them about the fight on the ride out and then being the hypocrite that he is tells them to not get themselves noticed to which she says "will you remember that though Arthur?" knowing about the fight he got into and he says "Probably not" meaning well I never last time I was here. Although this can also indicate she knows what Arthur is like. It also explains why him and Uncle don't go into the saloon which they surely would. The general store owner also mentions the fight during this mission and he never does this at any other time even if you do At Rest later and go to his store. I think Arthur and Uncle falling asleep and having some hair of the dog kind of indicates they are hungover from Sean's party too which I think was the night before.

 

I'm 100% with you about Exit Pursued though ha. Sorry for yet another long post.

I agree 100% with what you said. I might leave Polite Society after Sean's Party. The dialogue, Uncle sleeping all day for three days, and the wagon might drive me crazy, ha!!! If I don't like it, I will go back by placing Polite Society first.

 

Some people like myself don't pay attention to lip synching, only the dialogue in Polite Society.  When I did Polite Society before AAR, the store owner only mention the fight with Tommy in free roam only.

 

When does Bruised Ego unlock?