RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 - "Chronological" Mission Order

[jimmyoneshot]

5 minutes ago, cp1dell said:

@jimmyoneshot Love the Chapter II list! Probably the best I’ve seen so far.

 

Concerning the issue with returning the horse - is it possible to ride it to camp and grab your main horse, and whistle for the temporary horse (the stolen one) to follow you back to the owner? If not, it’s not that big of a deal to steal it. Yeah Arthur is supposed to be “lying low,” but you also steal the horse to chase someone down. If you insist on returning the horse, I don’t see why everyone has an issue with simply stealing a horse outside of Valentine or something. And walking to the ridge for the first bounty, or all the way to camp seems incredibly tedious. We need to remember this isn’t some strict, linear game here. While it may make sense to go with the more merciful choices presented in the game - there is nothing wrong with committing crimes like stealing a horse, before Arthur’s road to redemption.

 

Concerning your Chapter III order, I definitely think “An Honest Mistake” should be early on in the chapter since dialogue in the mission suggests they haven’t been in Clemen’s Point very long. “The Course if True Love I-III” should also be done right away since that is Dutch’s first and only order in “The New South.” As well as the title “Further Questions of Female Suffrage” making sense in the context of “The Course of True Love III” being complete.

I have actually tried doing that very thing but when you ride back the owner is suddenly gone. It's like returning to camp resets things outside of camp.

 

You are right there are a couple of points in the game when Arthur steals horses as part of the storyline, for example SPOILERS FOR CHAPTER 5:-

 

Spoiler

 

 

I am starting to think that riding the borrowed horse back to camp may be the best course of action though. This would allow me to tell Dutch that a guy recognised me from Valentine get my own horse and ride back to Valentine, do Americans at Rest  and then hopefully get to Swanson before 5pm.

 

Problem is at this point won't the horse be classed as my secondary horse then and I won't be able to sell it until after the first Hosea mission?

 

You are also very right about Chapter 3 and that list was an old one. I am about to replay Chapter 3 in the following way:-

1. The New South
2. American Distillation
3. An Honest Mistake
4. The Course of True Love I, II and III
5. Abigail approaches you here and tells you John needs to speak to you at the moon shine stash so that needs to be next
6. Advertising The New American Art
7. At the end of the above mission Dutch tells Arthur about Sean and Hosea meeting the Braithwaites and John and Javier meeting the Grays so the following 2 missions are next
8. The Joys of Tobacco - It makes sense to do this first because Hosea has literally just gone straight there to meet the Braithwaites and doing horse flesh for dinner first would mean the gang are stealing horses from a place where Sean an Hosea are currently having a meeting (Arthur even mentions this fact if you do it) which seems stupid
9. Horse Flesh For Dinner
10. After the above you will start on the dock at camp an as you walk past Dutch will shout for you to start this mission. You can't even sleep in bed without him shouting you so it makes sense to be next
11. Magicians For Sport
12. At the start of the Female Suffrage mission Arthur has some dialogue with Sadie where he says "We are not just hunting, we're hunted" and I believe with this he is referring to the bounty hunters in Magicians For Sport which is why it makes sense for it to be next or after it at least
13. Further Questions of Female Suffrage
14. Friends In Very Low Places
15. Preaching Forgiveness As He Went
16. Sodom Back To Gomorrah
17. Blessed Are The Peacemakers
18. A Short Walk In a Pretty Town
19. Blood Feuds Ancient and Modern
20. The Battle of Shady Belle

My Reasons:-

 

- I agree an Honest Mistake should be done early and I also think it should be done directly after American Distillation. This is because at the end of that mission Arthur rides into camp with Dutch and at the start of An Honest Mistake Molly asks Arthur "how is Dutch?" but she asks him this as if she has just seen them together if that makes sense. This mission is also actually unlocked by completing American Distillation so again it fits. This also fits in with the dialogue you mentioned where Bill says to uncle that they have only just got here. It's a bit strange for Arthur to go and do a stagecoach robbery at this point but it's not exactly planned plus he likely thought it would be quick rather than how it turns out.

 

- As you rightly mentioned the mission title "Further Questions of Female Suffrage" suggests that this mission comes after COTL Part 3 which has a female suffrage march. I have only realised this recently while planning to replay the chapter

 

- It makes sense to do American Distillation before the course of true love missions because Arthur then has an actual reason to be at the Grays plantation and can actually show the guards his deputy badge too. Remember them being deputised is what is allowing them to snoop about as they are. Also the dialogue whenever you see these guards after this also only makes sense if you do the first course of true love mission WITH the badge because when Arthur sees them next he says things like "You know me, I'm on official business for the family" which would only make sense if he'd been there previously with the badge and spoke to them.

 

- I know Dutch told Arthur to look into the Grays and Braithwaites but I think he was talking more generally rather than go and do it right now. Also I think Dutch isn't in camp when you first wake up the day after New South (I need to check this though) which means he is at the Sheriffs so I doubt Arthur would leave him there while he goes on a women's suffrage march right past the front door of the place

 

- Another big reason to do American Distillation before COTL 1, 2 and 3 is this - Once all of those missions are complete this unlocks Advertising The New American Art and Abigail will approach you in camp and say that John wants to talk to you at the moonshine stash which essentially starts this mission. The problem here is that everyone talks as though the moonshine has been there a fair amount of time. Whereas if you do COTL first followed by American Distilation the moonshine will literally have only just been left in camp. Check out the dialogue at the start here to see what I mean:-

 

 

[Urban Legends]

Anything special you guys drag out of chapter one? I got some moose antlers...

 

I am new to this topic.. Love the read. 

 

Chapter 2: "Who is not without sin" 

 

Number one.. This might as well be the alternate title for chapter 2. After first arriving at Horseshoe overlook we are told to lay low.. Keep quiet..maybe find some leads. But WTF is Swanson doing up at the train station?!? Arthur heads out to find out what he's doing at Flatneck. 

 

Ch 2. Mission 2: "Polite Society, Valentine Style"

 

Turns out Rev. Swanson reminds me a lot of my mom's crackhead boyfriend and everything's alright with him...SO! In search of new leads for the gang, Karen, Tilly and Mary-Beth convince Arthur and Uncle to ride out to Valentine with them. Especially since they have now been cooped up for so long.. 

 

Ch 2. Mission 3: "Good, Honest, Snake Oil"

 Following their arrival in Valentine, Arthur gets a tip from the local sheriff about a Benedict Albright, a wanted criminal last seen out near Dakota River. 

 

Ch 2. Mission 4: "Exit, Pursued by a bruised ego"

 

After spotting a huge bear up by the Dakota River, Hosea and Arthur ride out and track it. 

 

Ch 2. Mission 5: "Americans at Rest"

Back from his hunting trip, Arthur,  Charles and Javier try to charm the locals. Bill W starts a huge brawl at the Smithfields Saloon.. Dutch finally makes it into Valentine with news from J. Trelawny 

 

Tbc.. Comments?

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2018 by Urban Legends
B

[NikosUncle]

^^^

i really do think the uncle mission is the correct first mission for chapter 2. It’s the only mission at camp and it’s where you begin. Why would anyone skip that and go see Swanson first? 

[Urban Legends]

Because of what Dutch says when you first get to the camp and besides uncle is sleeping anyway...

 

Looking at the bigger scope.. Why is the first thing Im gonna do is wake up this sleeping guy.. Hmmm

Edited December 30, 2018 by Urban Legends
No

[NikosUncle]

Because it’s the closest mission marker and R* would assume 97.8% of players would do that one first. Plus I don’t think playing poker works too well as a first mission. 

 

What does dutch actually say at camp?

[Urban Legends]

Dutch telling everyone "Get to work" While Hosea reminds them of their apparent status as itinerant workers.. Dutch specifically mentions Uncle and Swanson.. Not to do any **** sh*t

 

Gonna read some more...but believe me this is based off what goes on in the first sequence.. Why are people waiting so long to hunt with Hosea also? The cook says we need food like errday. 

[cp1dell]

Should we make note of what unlocks certain missions as well and other conditions? For example, Hosea’s hunting trip is unlocked after completeing one of the any missions available at the start of Chapter 2. I’m only mentioning this because like Urban Legends mentioned, we are putting it off a bit, and it is a huge tutorial mission. On the other hand, you already receive the hunting/camp food tutorial in Chapter 1 so you don’t need the context of Hosea’s mission to be bringing food into camp. It also seems strange to leave Hosea sitting in camp saying “Hey Arthur” for quite a bit.

 

I can upload the mission trees for each chapter from the guide if it would help. Probably later this afternoon (EST).

[Urban Legends]

My inspiration for my mission list is strictly the life of Artur Morgan. He was hard to understand first but lately I really love the guy... Remember that Hosea also gives you the Legendary animals map..further allowing the player to start off with an incredible outfit. Along with the option to ride back with him.

 

Since there are no implied time crunches or pressure in the beginning... I have to strongly disagree with the acceptance of the first mission being Polite Society.

 

Still exploring!  

[Tonesta]

12 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

 

You are also very right about Chapter 3 and that list was an old one. I am about to replay Chapter 3 in the following way:-

1. The New South
2. American Distillation
3. An Honest Mistake
4. The Course of True Love I, II and III
5. Abigail approaches you here and tells you John needs to speak to you at the moon shine stash so that needs to be next
6. Advertising The New American Art
7. At the end of the above mission Dutch tells Arthur about Sean and Hosea meeting the Braithwaites and John and Javier meeting the Grays so the following 2 missions are next
8. The Joys of Tobacco - It makes sense to do this first because Hosea has literally just gone straight there to meet the Braithwaites and doing horse flesh for dinner first would mean the gang are stealing horses from a place where Sean an Hosea are currently having a meeting (Arthur even mentions this fact if you do it) which seems stupid
9. Horse Flesh For Dinner
10. After the above you will start on the dock at camp an as you walk past Dutch will shout for you to start this mission. You can't even sleep in bed without him shouting you so it makes sense to be next
11. Magicians For Sport
12. At the start of the Female Suffrage mission Arthur has some dialogue with Sadie where he says "We are not just hunting, we're hunted" and I believe with this he is referring to the bounty hunters in Magicians For Sport which is why it makes sense for it to be next or after it at least
13. Further Questions of Female Suffrage
14. Friends In Very Low Places
15. Preaching Forgiveness As He Went
16. Sodom Back To Gomorrah
17. Blessed Are The Peacemakers
18. A Short Walk In a Pretty Town
19. Blood Feuds Ancient and Modern
20. The Battle of Shady Belle

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from the beginning of Chapter 3, Sadie and Pierson are arguing and if you walk anywhere near them, the mission automatically triggers.

 

So in your mission order, at the beginning of Chapter 3, you're unable to do any hunting/providing and Sadie and Pierson are non-stop bickering for several days!?!

 

I actually think that the 'we're hunted' dialog is pretty clearly referring to the Pinkertons/Milton & Ross and Cornwall, and refers to them being chased out of Horseshoe Overlook - and therefore is a reference to the end of Chapter 2 and implies that this mission happens very early.

 

In fact, I think it makes sense to start Chapter 3 with 'Further Questions of Female Suffrage'; this resolves the Pierson/Sadie spat in a reasonable time.  And I don't believe anything in that mission implies a knowledge of Rhodes at all (that you get from a New South).

In the meantime, Dutch is looking out across the water ready to start  'A New South', but I can easily believe he's happy doing that, being contemplative for a few hours whilst you kill some Lemoyne Raiders with Sadie! Then the rest of the missions can follow quickly in the order you suggest.

 

[jimmyoneshot]

2 hours ago, cp1dell said:

Should we make note of what unlocks certain missions as well and other conditions? For example, Hosea’s hunting trip is unlocked after completeing one of the any missions available at the start of Chapter 2. I’m only mentioning this because like Urban Legends mentioned, we are putting it off a bit, and it is a huge tutorial mission. On the other hand, you already receive the hunting/camp food tutorial in Chapter 1 so you don’t need the context of Hosea’s mission to be bringing food into camp. It also seems strange to leave Hosea sitting in camp saying “Hey Arthur” for quite a bit.

 

I can upload the mission trees for each chapter from the guide if it would help. Probably later this afternoon (EST).

Yep you're right cp1dell. I always take unlocking into equation too as I also have the official guide like you likely do which has those mission trees. Realistically at the start we have 8 actual missions we need to deal with which I consider the first 'Stage' of Chapter 2. Some of these missions are direct continuations of others so I class them together.

 

Then there are further missions which require combinations of the missions in the first stage to be completed to be unlocked so I class these as Stage 2 and then they also have missions which continue directly from them i.e. Blessed are the Meek is a direct continuation of A Quiet Time in the same way The Spines of America is a direct continuation of Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego.

 

Then there are Stage 3 which require combinations of Stage 2 missions and in some cases Stage 2 and Stage 1 missions to be completed. And so on and so forth for further stages.

 

Here they are. The missions are in no particular order as this is just a group listing showing what I class as 'stages':-

 

STAGE 1

 

- Who is Not Without Sin

- Exit Pursued By a Bruised Ego (Unlocked after any 1 mission is completed)

  - Spines of America (Unlocked after Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego) (Should be done directly after it too in my opinion because after you return to camp if you hunted the bear Grimshaw tells you to meet Hosea at Emerald Ranch)

- Polite Society Valentine Style

- Americans At Rest

  - The First Shall Be The Last (Unlocked after Americans at Rest)

  - Paying A Social Call (Unlocked after Americans at Rest)

  - Money Lending and Other Sins I, II and III (Unlocked after Americans at Rest)

 

STAGE 2

 

- We Loved Once and True (Unlocked after Paying a Social Call & Money Lending and Other Sins)

- A Quiet Time (Unlocked after Paying a Social Call & Money Lending and Other Sins)

  - Blessed Are The Meek (Unlocked after A Quiet Time) (Should be done directly after it too because Micah is about to be hanged and Dutch told you to go rescue him after taking Lenny to Valentine)

    - An American Pastoral Scene (Unlocked after Blessed Are The Meek) (There is no rush to do this because Micah just told you to come see him at his camp sometime so it can be done whenever)

 

STAGE 3

 

- Pouring Forth Oil I, II, III (Unlocked after Polite Society Valentine Style, The First Shall Be The Last and We Loved Once and True)

  - A Fisher of Men (Unlocked after A Quiet Time and Pouring Forth Oil III) (This is meant to be done before Pouring Forth Oil IV because in the dialogue of IV Arthur mentions stuff that happened in this mission)

  - Pouring Forth Oil IV Unlocked after (Pouring Forth Oil III)

 

STAGE 4

 

- The Sheep and The Goats (Unlocked after The Spines of America, Pouring Forth Oil IV & A Fisher of Men)

 

STAGE 5

 

- A Strange Kindness (Unlocked after Who Is Not Without Sin, Blessed Are The Meek & The Sheep and The Goats)

 

The main issue is stage 1 so I will just address those missions which I think should go:-

1. Polite Society Valentine Style - Seems like the main starter mission as it is right there in camp
2. Americans At Rest - You are in Valentine after the above and doing this later leaves the gang in a Saloon overnight which seems silly
3. Who is Not Without Sin - I would've preferred to do this after First Shall Be The last but my issue with that is Swanson is in camp during Sean's party whether you've brought him back or not which means he must have been rescued
4. The First Shall Be The Last - Obvious. Sean needs rescuing
5. Paying A Social Call - John and Bill are in the same clothes in this mission that they wore for Sean's party the night before and they were drinking together so it makes sense as a continuation, plus if you only do the missions then you NEED the money from this mission to afford a good horse for Arthur in Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego. I doubt Arthur would buy one of those tiny Morgan pony-like things
6. Exit Pursued By a Bruised Ego - Arthur's journal after Spines of America suggests that is the first time he's been to Emerald Ranch ("...stole a wagon, sold it to some rat Hosea met at some odd place called Emerald Ranch") whereas he also goes there in Money Lending and Other Sins so I think this makes sense to go before that
7. Spines of America - Carries on directly from the above mission because Grimshaw approaches you with it as soon as you get back to camp
8. Money Lending and Other Sins I, II and III - A fitting end to this stage as we see the worst side of Arthur and then I believe the goo side of him in We Loved Once and True would start stage 2

[Urban Legends]

Hunting with Hosea More so the "Camp/Crafting" tutorial. Had a seemingly random encounter with Javiar outside the camp..went and saved Bill. Head back to camp and greeted to big party for Sean. 3 missions currently left on the map ..hosea, kieran, and javiar

 

 

[jimmyoneshot]

2 hours ago, Tonesta said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from the beginning of Chapter 3, Sadie and Pierson are arguing and if you walk anywhere near them, the mission automatically triggers.

 

So in your mission order, at the beginning of Chapter 3, you're unable to do any hunting/providing and Sadie and Pierson are non-stop bickering for several days!?!

 

I actually think that the 'we're hunted' dialog is pretty clearly referring to the Pinkertons/Milton & Ross and Cornwall, and refers to them being chased out of Horseshoe Overlook - and therefore is a reference to the end of Chapter 2 and implies that this mission happens very early.

 

In fact, I think it makes sense to start Chapter 3 with 'Further Questions of Female Suffrage'; this resolves the Pierson/Sadie spat in a reasonable time.  And I don't believe anything in that mission implies a knowledge of Rhodes at all (that you get from a New South).

In the meantime, Dutch is looking out across the water ready to start  'A New South', but I can easily believe he's happy doing that, being contemplative for a few hours whilst you kill some Lemoyne Raiders with Sadie! Then the rest of the missions can follow quickly in the order you suggest.

 

I'm about to do my replay of Chapter 3 as we speak so I'll get back to you on a couple of things ha.

 

A very big reason for not doing Female Suffrage first is that it is simply not available when you are in camp the first time at the start of the chapter. To unlock it you have to actually leave camp and come back or save and reload your game. Check it out and you'll see what I mean. So this means The New South is the only available mission when you start the chapter and the dialogue in it suggests that they haven't even been to Rhodes yet (which you do in Female Suffrage). Check out the dialogue that starts between the deputy and Arthur here:-

 

 

In it:-

 

- Arthur is asked if he's familiar with the area and he says "No, not really"

- The deputy says the Gray's own half the businesses in town and Arthur says "which town?" when he would obviously know if he'd already been there

- He asks if Arthur knows of the Braithwaites and Arthur says "like I said, we just got down here"

- He then gives Arthur a quick tour of town and tells him about the General Store, Gunsmith, Post Office etc which he visits in Female Suffrage

 

Note that this conversation stays exactly the same whether you have done Female Suffrage beforehand or not too as I tested that (my life is that empty).

 

Basically this is meant to be the intro to town and the area and I believe this is the Chapter 3 equivalent of what Polite Society Valentine Style was in Chapter 2.

 

I used to think that I could do Feamle Suffrage 2nd however the very name of the mission suggests it needs to come at some point AFTER Course of True Love 3 which has the female suffrage march in it.

9 minutes ago, Urban Legends said:

Hunting with Hosea More so the "Camp/Crafting" tutorial. Had a seemingly random encounter with Javiar outside the camp..went and saved Bill. Head back to camp and greeted to big party for Sean. 3 missions currently left on the map ..hosea, kieran, and javiar

 

 

So have you not completed the game before Urban? If not I would strongly avoid topics like this until you have due to spoilers.

 

I have had that mission before with Bill an Javier but I'm not sure what triggers it. So many great random encounters.

[Tonesta]

30 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

 

I used to think that I could do Feamle Suffrage 2nd however the very name of the mission suggests it needs to come at some point AFTER Course of True Love 3 which has the female suffrage march in it.

 

I'll bow to your greater knowledge of the dialog in The New South, and accept therefore that you should do that mission first to begin the chapter.

 

But next time you come back to camp afterwards, you surely must do Female Suffrage. Else you've got Arthur ignoring a major argument in camp - which is out of character. Where you have it in the mission order, you've got him ignoring the same argument multiple times!

 

Personally, I think maintaining normal behavior and consistent dialog is more important in determining a mission order than simply picking based on mission titles - which, after all, are just fancy placeholder descriptions that Rockstar uses that don't necessarily have any real meaning.

 

Could you avoid coming back to camp before A Course of True Love? Maybe, but I think you'd have to do American Distillation then A Course of True Love then Female Suffrage, and leave An Honest Mistake until a little later. Or do you have to go back to camp with Dutch at the end of American Distillation? In which case, I don't know how you avoid witnessing the Sadie/Pierson argument.

 

What makes much more sense is:

 

1) Dutch and Arthur meet the Grays in Rhodes then go fishing

2) Dutch heads off to meet/begin to work on the Grays; Arthur defuses a major argument in camp

3) Once Sadie is placated (and a bunch of Lemoyne Raiders are dead), Arthur goes to catch up with Dutch and finds out that he's already in with the sheriff.

 

Presumably you would agree that some time has to pass between A New South and American Distillation? Dutch needs a bit of time to work his magic (and get the sheriff drunk). How would Arthur fill that time? Well, he can't go hunting/fishing to provide for camp and avoid starting Female Suffrage because you can't talk to Pierson without triggering that mission! He'd have to sleep or play games in camp whilst all the while ignoring Sadie trying to kill the cook!!

 

 

[Psycho18]

@jimmyoneshot

Great job, on the mission list for chapter 3. My mind is up for missions for chapter 2. I will be starting chapter3 in a little bit.  I checked the sheriff's dialogue for the second bounty in Valentine and there, is no special dialogue from the sheriff. So, you can put the second bounty in Valentine after you take Mary to the train station in "We loved once and true 3" and before A Quiet Time. I still like doing bounties when I enter a new town or new chapter. 

[jimmyoneshot]

3 minutes ago, Tonesta said:

I'll bow to your greater knowledge of the dialog in The New South, and accept therefore that you should do that mission first to begin the chapter.

 

But next time you come back to camp afterwards, you surely must do Female Suffrage. Else you've got Arthur ignoring a major argument in camp - which is out of character. Where you have it in the mission order, you've got him ignoring the same argument multiple times!

 

Personally, I think maintaining normal behavior and consistent dialog is more important in determining a mission order than simply picking based on mission titles - which, after all, are just fancy placeholder descriptions that Rockstar uses that don't necessarily have any real meaning.

 

Could you avoid coming back to camp before A Course of True Love? Maybe, but I think you'd have to do American Distillation then A Course of True Love then Female Suffrage, and leave An Honest Mistake until a little later. Or do you have to go back to camp with Dutch at the end of American Distillation? In which case, I don't know how you avoid witnessing the Sadie/Pierson argument.

 

What makes much more sense is:

 

1) Dutch and Arthur meet the Grays in Rhodes then go fishing

2) Dutch heads off to meet/begin to work on the Grays; Arthur defuses a major argument in camp

3) Once Sadie is placated (and a bunch of Lemoyne Raiders are dead), Arthur goes to catch up with Dutch and finds out that he's already in with the sheriff.

 

Presumably you would agree that some time has to pass between A New South and American Distillation? Dutch needs a bit of time to work his magic (and get the sheriff drunk). How would Arthur fill that time? Well, he can't go hunting/fishing to provide for camp and avoid starting Female Suffrage because you can't talk to Pierson without triggering that mission! He'd have to sleep or play games in camp whilst all the while ignoring Sadie trying to kill the cook!!

 

 

I know what you are saying completely. Does the argument continue to take place though? As far as I remember it only happens once and then they argue as part of the cutscene when you approach them to start the mission. Do they keep arguing wit the same dialogue over and over? It's one of the things I want to check in my replay of the chapter now.

 

I know also that the argument they initially have isn't that serious and the argument only becomes very serious when you approach them for the mission at which point they start pulling blades on each other.

 

I originally thought that you could do this straight after A New South when you get back from the fishing trip but I've tested it and at that point it is always late in the day no matter how fast I did the mission as long as you go fishing and I doubt Arthur would skip that fishing trip as it's with his best friends and also acts as a fishing tutorial. Uncle also mentions that Arthur has been "fishing and playing lawman" in an upcoming mission too. This means that when you start Female Suffrage it will be dark and time will automatically fast forward to morning as part of the mission, presumably so the shops will be open etc but it looks silly i.e. it's dark and then suddenly broad daylight. So for this reason I used to just sleep overnight and then do it.

 

To be honest I'm not sure where to slot it in at the moment which is another thing I'm deciding on. I know you don't think the mission name means much but the fact that it's called 'FURTHER QUESTIONS of Female Suffrage' and this Chapter has a female suffrage march suggests it goes at some point after it to me. I honestly think it goes after Magicians For Sport because that mission an Female Suffrage are needed to be completed to unlock Friends In very Low Places. Check it out if you get the chance. I think it was likely meant to only unlock after Magicians for sport and then they changed it to be unlocked from the start

 

As for Dutch, as far as I can remember if you go to bed after A New South he won't be in camp in the morning which means he may have been in the Sheriffs all night or got their early or whatever. I know what you mean but if the mission is unlocked then techincally it means enough time has passed.

 

BTW please don't think I'm being argumentative by disagreeing with you. I just love to try and figure these things out and providing points back and forth helps me do that Psycho18 told me something I didn't know yesterday while we were doing it so it can be very helpful.

[jimmyoneshot]

22 minutes ago, Psycho18 said:

@jimmyoneshot

Great job, on the mission list for chapter 3. My mind is up for missions for chapter 2. I will be starting chapter3 in a little bit.  I checked the sheriff's dialogue for the second bounty in Valentine and there, is no special dialogue from the sheriff. So, you can put the second bounty in Valentine after you take Mary to the train station in "We loved once and true 3" and before A Quiet Time. I still like doing bounties when I enter a new town or new chapter. 

Thanks man. I'm still double checking that list right now though but I think it is pretty complete.

 

I too noticed that if you go back to the Sheriff after a Quiet Time he has no dialogue about Arthur's drunken night. Don't know whether this matters much to me though because at the end of the day they were only locked up overnight and paid their bounty and the Sheriff wasn't even there when they were locked up. It was a random deputy.

 

One more thing I've noticed that may interest you is that during Javier's home robbery mission Arthur is coughing at the end of it which suggests this should come some point after Money Lending and Other Sins 3 for obvious reasons. I had never noticed this before as it's very subtle but is similar to the cough that Arthur does through the rest of the game.

 

Another thing I'm looking into is how to get those damn oil wagons to move out of the compound in pouring forth oil. I know you can get them by just gunning your way in or just high tailing it out of there but I prefer to get them when they are on the road or at Valentine. My problem is triggering them to move. What does seem to trigger them to move is doing the 2nd bounty mission in valentine. I did that and boom the wagon was in valentine straight after. I'm looking into what else can trigger them too.

[Tonesta]

22 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

 

BTW please don't think I'm being argumentative by disagreeing with you. I just love to try and figure these things out and providing points back and forth helps me do that Psycho18 told me something I didn't know yesterday while we were doing it so it can be very helpful.

Hey, if I didn't want an argument - I wouldn't have started responding to this thread!

 

Ultimately, this is a subjective issue - for the most part there isn't a fundamentally correct way to order the missions. It's an open world game after all - it's up to each individual to decide how to play it.

 

All I'm saying is that playing through Chapter 3, without being able to do any hunting or fishing for the camp, or being able to walk through the middle of camp for the entire first half of the chapter, is neither the way I would like to play it nor something I find it easy to believe is canon chronology!

 

[jimmyoneshot]

2 minutes ago, Tonesta said:

Hey, if I didn't want an argument - I wouldn't have started responding to this thread!

 

Ultimately, this is a subjective issue - for the most part there isn't a fundamentally correct way to order the missions. It's an open world game after all - it's up to each individual to decide how to play it.

 

All I'm saying is that playing through Chapter 3, without being able to do any hunting or fishing for the camp, or being able to walk through the middle of camp for the entire first half of the chapter, is neither the way I would like to play it nor something I find it easy to believe is canon chronology!

 

You misunderstand. I wasn't saying that you thought I was being argumentative. I was saying I hope you don't because I am trying to discuss in a friendly way.

[NikosUncle]

So what’s the deal with stranger missions? There are quite a few white question mark icons on the way to and from the main missions. Does stopping and doing them just make things too complicated to include?

[jimmyoneshot]

2 minutes ago, NikosUncle said:

So what’s the deal with stranger missions? There are quite a few white question mark icons on the way to and from the main missions. Does stopping and doing them just make things too complicated to include?

Ye I didn't want to overcomplicate it when I did my list because they really make sense to be done at any time. I mainly do them as I'm passing because most of them are very short. For example I do 'A Test of Faith' (the woman who is studying dinosaur bones) on the way to Swanson at Flatneck station because you can literally see it from the road and it takes seconds to do and I do 'Arcadia For Amateurs I' (the photographer whose meat bag gets stolen by a coyote) on the way to rescue Sean because it's on the path too.

 

Then there is the gunslingers stranger mission - 'The Noblest of Men and a Woman' which has 4 separate parts at first but you can just treat these as individual stranger missions and all are very short. I do the Emmet Granger and Flaco Hernandez parts in Chapter 2, Billy Midnight in Chapter 3 and Black Belle in Chapter 4 and then the final parts in Chapter 4 too if that helps.

[Tonesta]

20 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

You misunderstand. I wasn't saying that you thought I was being argumentative. I was saying I hope you don't because I am trying to discuss in a friendly way.

And I was just trying to be jovial! Trust me, I understand we're having a friendly discussion here!

 

OK, one last attempt to persuade you......

 

Your theory requires Dutch to either a) pull an all-nighter with the sheriff or b) get up early to go visit him. But both require Sheriff Gray to be there either in the evening or the early morning - and he didn't exactly seem to be the hardworking, in the office at all hours type!

 

I'm suggesting the following:

1) After New South, you all go fishing and come back to the camp. Dutch looks at the view for a bit; Arthur probably goes and hang out around camp for a bit. They both go to bed.

2) Dutch then gets up and heads into Rhodes with Bill to see the Sheriff. Arthur gets up and goes out to hunt something for the camp

3) Arthur comes back with his kill for the stew, only to find Pierson and Sadie at each other's throats. 

4) Arthur sorts things out with Sadie, and then heads back into Rhodes to catch up with Dutch.

 

It fits perfectly! And the only reason not to do it that way is because of the title of the mission. Which:

a) Is something that's of the real world, not the game world, and therefore of secondary importance to determining the ideal chronological narrative

b) Could be explained away anyway. There's always questions of female suffrage. This could be a further question. And then the TCOTL is yet another further question!

 

Finally, although it's not absolutely clear, I felt like the dialog in Female Suffrage implied it to be the first time Arthur had met the Lemoyne Raiders.....

 

[NikosUncle]

Do you ever wish R* just made the missions linear and only able to be done one at a time? I use to try and do this even on the ps2 gta games but there’s just never a perfect way to do it, there’ll always be something that ruins the flow.

[jimmyoneshot]

3 minutes ago, Tonesta said:

And I was just trying to be jovial! Trust me, I understand we're having a friendly discussion here!

 

OK, one last attempt to persuade you......

 

Your theory requires Dutch to either a) pull an all-nighter with the sheriff or b) get up early to go visit him. But both require Sheriff Gray to be there either in the evening or the early morning - and he didn't exactly seem to be the hardworking, in the office at all hours type!

 

I'm suggesting the following:

1) After New South, you all go fishing and come back to the camp. Dutch looks at the view for a bit; Arthur probably goes and hang out around camp for a bit. They both go to bed.

2) Dutch then gets up and heads into Rhodes with Bill to see the Sheriff. Arthur gets up and goes out to hunt something for the camp

3) Arthur comes back with his kill for the stew, only to find Pierson and Sadie at each other's throats. 

4) Arthur sorts things out with Sadie, and then heads back into Rhodes to catch up with Dutch.

 

It fits perfectly! And the only reason not to do it that way is because of the title of the mission. Which:

a) Is something that's of the real world, not the game world, and therefore of secondary importance to determining the ideal chronological narrative

b) Could be explained away anyway. There's always questions of female suffrage. This could be a further question. And then the TCOTL is yet another further question!

 

Finally, although it's not absolutely clear, I felt like the dialog in Female Suffrage implied it to be the first time Arthur had met the Lemoyne Raiders.....

 

Haha. Ah right, cool.

 

You may be right. It's something I'm about to look into now and doing female suffrage after A New South always made a lot of sense to me previously for a couple of reasons:-

 

- It is right in front of your face in camp as you mentioned

 

- In the cutscene after 'Advertising The New American Art' Arthur says "I keep running into those fellas" or something like that which to me suggests that he has ran into them more than once before so that would mean that he would've had to have done both Female Suffrage, where he first meets them, and American Distillation where he again meets them (obviously because that mission is needed to unlock this one). I doubt he would've done the mission with Lenny before this because in that he practically wipes them out. Although you could argue that when he says this he just means he seen them during American Distillation and in the saloon during 'Advertising The New American Art and he classes that as "keeps seeing" them.

 

- The last mission was an intro to town and this mission seems like Arthur's first trip into town. You're right that does fit perfectly

 

Now here is where I have a problem and it's something I have tested several combinations of  - It's the dialogue in the mission with Lenny and what Lenny an Arthur say to each other as they are riding out. Here are the combinations of things I tried and what they cause them to say (bear with me):-

 

- If you do just American Distillation and not Further Questions of Female Suffrage Arthur says to Lenny that he met the Lemoyne Raiders when they were "buying moonshine off one of these hillbilly families"
- If you do American Distillation and Further Questions of Female Suffrage afterwards Arthur says to Lenny that he met the Lemoyne Raiders when they "harangued me and Sadie when we were coming back with supplies"
- If you do American Distillation and Further Questions of Female Suffrage afterwards and Advertising a New American Art Form Arthur says to Lenny that he met the Lemoyne Raiders when they "harangued me and Sadie when we were coming back with supplies"
- If you do Further Questions of Female Suffrage and American Distillation afterwards and Advertising a New American Art Form Arthur says to Lenny that he met the Lemoyne Raiders when they "harangued me and Sadie when we were coming back with supplies"

 

So basically the Sadie dialogue overrides the other no matter what order you do it in as long as you've done both of those first 2 missions and Arthur makes no mention of the fact that they attacked Arthur and Hosea in the Rhodes Saloon no matter what which is silly but it also makes no sense to do this Lenny mission before Advertising a New American Art Form either because when the raiders turn up there in that mission they are only upset about their liquor whereas they should be more upset about having their hideout destroyed, which happens in this mission. In fact I think Arthur and Lenny pretty much extincted them in this mission.

 

The fact that the dialogue about Sadie is always what gets mentioned would however make sense IF the last time Arthur dealt with the raiders was female Suffrage. Does that makes sense? Otherwise surely he would mention all the stuff that happened afterwards - the shootout at the moonshine still and the saloon shootout.

 

I'm pretty sure that the dialogue in the Female Suffrage mission about the raiders changes if Arthur has met them before but I'll check that again now.

8 minutes ago, NikosUncle said:

Do you ever wish R* just made the missions linear and only able to be done one at a time? I use to try and do this even on the ps2 gta games but there’s just never a perfect way to do it, there’ll always be something that ruins the flow.

I wish they'd release an official mission list but I think it's actually quite fun figuring these things out too.

 

I think the reason the flow gets ruined is because they have an actual order in mind but also program the dialog so that the missions can be done in any order the player chooses and still make sense. The problem comes when they mess this up and you can do missions where things in dialogue are mentioned as if they have happened even though the mission it is meant to have happened in hasn't been done yet.

 

For example Arthur meeting Milton in A Fisher of Men is literally discussed in Pouring Forth Oil Part IV no matter what order you play but you are still able to do Pouring Forth Oil Part IV before A Fisher Of Men haha.

[NikosUncle]

Do you only do your own hunting for the camp after Exit Pursued By a Bruised Ego? And during that mission are you supposed to stay and hunt the bear or ride back with Hosea? When I killed the bear and stow its fur on the horse the trapper is quite close but i don’t think there was any guide about taking it to the trapper or did I miss something? How would Arthur know what to do with it?

[jimmyoneshot]

18 minutes ago, NikosUncle said:

Do you only do your own hunting for the camp after Exit Pursued By a Bruised Ego? And during that mission are you supposed to stay and hunt the bear or ride back with Hosea? When I killed the bear and stow its fur on the horse the trapper is quite close but i don’t think there was any guide about taking it to the trapper or did I miss something? How would Arthur know what to do with it?

I agree with you. There is no real guide to the trapper so it's silly. There is some random dialogue with Pearson however where he mentions the Trapper early on but I'm not sure how to trigger this. There was one time when I donated some stuff right at the start of Chapter 2 and Pearson just started speaking about the trapper and then it marked the location/s on my map but since then I've never had that dialogue with him.

 

As for whether or not you hunt the bear, I think it's largely up to you as I don't think there is any dialogue after that which suggests what happened either way. But I'd like to think Arthur would take the chance to hunt him. Remember early on when Charles and Arthur go hunting and they spot a bear? Well during that when Charles says they should avoid him Arthur says "he's got a lot of meat on him" which shows he is willing to hunt bears.

 

I noticed though that when Hosea and Arthur talk about what happened it seems that Arthur chose the split up option rather than placing the bait.

[NikosUncle]

I placed the bait both times I did that mission. What happens when you split up? I noticed both times how bad it looks when the bear rushes into the clearing when you check the bait. Does something else happen when you choose split up?

[jimmyoneshot]

2 minutes ago, NikosUncle said:

I placed the bait both times I did that mission. What happens when you split up? I noticed both times how bad it looks when the bear rushes into the clearing when you check the bait. Does something else happen when you choose split up?

It's pretty similar. Here you go :-

 

 

 

[NikosUncle]

Lol thanks it definitely does look better when the bear charges that way and you’re right about the dialogue seeming like you chose split up because the way Hosea talks about how you saved his life it works better if you go and find him instead of already being there.

[Psycho18]

@jimmyoneshot,

I have been trying for a long time now to get Pearson's dialogue about the trapper. After "Exit pursued by a bruised ego", I donate to Pearson: 2x perfect deer pelt, 2x perfect buck pelt, 2x squirrel pelt, 5x perfect rabbit pelt. After hunting with Charles, I donate 1 perfect pronghorn doe pelt and 1 perfect pronghorn buck carcass. No dialogue. One time donated 2 perfect deer pelt, 1 perfect buck pelt, and 1 perfect buck carcass after Polite Society, Valentine style. No dialogue from  Pearson after uncle mission. I do not understand what is going on.

 

[NikosUncle]

12 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Then there is the gunslingers stranger mission - 'The Noblest of Men and a Woman' which has 4 separate parts at first but you can just treat these as individual stranger missions and all are very short. I do the Emmet Granger and Flaco Hernandez parts in Chapter 2, Billy Midnight in Chapter 3 and Black Belle in Chapter 4 and then the final parts in Chapter 4 too if that helps.

Just wondering do you do the final part that is up at the waterfall near Annesburg during chapter 4? I remember seeing the icon up there before I even went to Guarma. I don’t think it would feel right to travel up to that area before the gang makes camp at shady belle.