RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 - "Chronological" Mission Order

[luckycanadian95]

On 4/1/2025 at 1:42 AM, Dan_1983 said:

I do Mason's first encounter on my way to breaking Micah out of jail. I take that long road to Strawberry to visit the stable and stock up on horse supplies first and to avoid escorting the lost New Yorker back to Strawberry as that encounter irritates me because of how slow he is. I wish Arthur just let the man ride on his horse with him and be done with it haha.

The new yorker really frustrates me as well 

 

On 4/1/2025 at 1:42 AM, Dan_1983 said:

His second encounter I do around the same time I do Watson's cabin robbery usually near the end of Chapter 2. 

I'm having trouble finding it but I vaguely remember there being a newspaper article about Watson's Cabin that implies the family should still be alive during chapter three, and there's definitely a couple articles on the gunslingers suggesting the same thing. I don't think the papers are always reliable but if you wanted to use them as evidence, I'd say the best time for these encounters would be later during the trip back to the Heartlands / Big Valley for the Winton Holmes debt and stagecoach robberies.

 

On 4/1/2025 at 3:42 AM, BleddynRPG said:

My mistake, I thought the mission with Mary ended just before dawn.

But nothing is lost, personally I like to read my diary, talk to Mickey. Meeting Jim Boy can also work to loosen up the atmosphere.

No matter what I always spend the night at the hotel after saying goodbye to Mary, because if you interact with the mirror in your room Arthur will insult himself and say that he's unlovable etc. which fits nicely at this point as an extension of WLOAT3 and matches the tone of his last journal entry: "I trust I will not make a god awful fool of myself once more but somehow I imagine I shall."

 

On 4/1/2025 at 3:42 AM, BleddynRPG said:

Once after a mission with Mary I went on a long hunt in the north, another time I took on the bandit challenge and robbed stores.

It does seem like a good time for Arthur to take a break from everything. I usually rob the backroom business at the doctor's office before leaving town, since I can never manage to escape without getting recognized by the law, so for the sake of realism I only deal with that place once most of the other missions in Valentine have been done.

 

Another possible time for the robbery is after Quiet Time when you get released from jail, since you can retrieve your hat from the pig pen and witness the interaction between the corrupt lawman and the O'Driscolls behind the sheriff's office, which could be how Arthur is meant to discover the backroom business. I always like discovering the operation at that point, but these days I postpone the actual robbery because you'll most likely be doing Blessed later that same day given the urgency of saving Micah, and in the last cutscene of that mission Arthur says "There I was having a dull day, only for you to liven it up by letting me shoot up half a town." To me this dialogue suggests the ordeal in Strawberry was his first and only altercation of the day, so it probably doesn't make sense to have another shootout with lawmen in Valentine that morning.

 

On 4/1/2025 at 3:42 AM, BleddynRPG said:

I think the first two encounters with Albert should be in chapter two, relatively close to each other, and then a longer break because if I remember correctly, during the meeting at Emerald Ranch, Albert says he's been trying to get a picture of horses for weeks.

Good catch. In that case there should probably be a few weeks in between the second and third encounters.
 

On 4/1/2025 at 3:42 AM, BleddynRPG said:

I'm still wondering about Arthur's journal entry about Emerald Ranch and Lilly Millet's debt, and Hosea's remark that Arthur had been around the area so he knew the way to Carmody Dell. In fact, the entry about the ER is as if it was the first time he had heard the name and was here, although Strauss also says that Lilly is in the ER.

In my opinion there's a few ways to interpret the journal entry but only one way to interpret the remark from Hosea, which pretty much settles the debate for me.

 

Some people have argued that Hosea is just referring to the Heartlands in general when he says that Arthur has been "out gallivanting around here", but when you actually look at their dialogue in context I think it's pretty clear that he means Emerald Ranch and the surrounding area:

• Hosea - Lead the way. He said the place was just northwest of here.

• Arthur - Me?

• Hosea - You're the one who's been out gallivanting around here.

• Arthur - That's what you call it?

For one thing he says "lead the way" which only makes sense if Arthur is familiar with this specific place.

 

He mentions the word "here" twice. The second time, which most people focus on, is during the sentence "you're the one who's been out gallivanting around here", and sure you could interpret that to mean Arthur has been out doing things around the Heartlands in general. But the first mention of the word just one sentence earlier is clearly referring to their current location aka Emerald Ranch: "he said the place was just northwest of here".

 

So it's likely that Hosea is referring to Emerald Ranch in both cases, especially given his "lead the way" comment, and therefore the Lilly Millet and Chick Matthews debts were probably meant to happen before Spines.

 

I think the fact that Arthur writes a question mark after Emerald (?) Ranch in his journal tends to throw people off, because that could imply he hasn't heard the name before, but I think given Hosea's remark about how Arthur knows the area we have to assume it means something else. 

 

My guess is that he just finds the name very strange, or maybe he wonders if the word emerald implies there are riches to be found there, which is actually a discussion you can have with Hosea on the way to Carmody Dell. It's not too surprising that he didn't write about the place earlier when he collected the debts because he was focused on a job and didn't have much time to learn about the ranch.

 

22 hours ago, Dan_1983 said:

Lenny's dialogue also changes in camp depending on how you ended that mission too.

Does it really? I thought it was like Spines where no matter how you played the mission Arthur and Hosea will always talk at camp as though you chose the daytime approach.

[Dan_1983]

17 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

I'm having trouble finding it but I vaguely remember there being a newspaper article about Watson's Cabin that implies the family should still be alive during chapter three, and there's definitely a couple articles on the gunslingers suggesting the same thing. I don't think the papers are always reliable but if you wanted to use them as evidence, I'd say the best time for these encounters would be later during the trip back to the Heartlands / Big Valley for the Winton Holmes debt and stagecoach robberies.

I don't think it's a newspaper article, but rather a newspaper clipping found at the cabin regarding Edgar Watson's escape from jail and the bounty on his head. Also in Chapter 2, there is a camp encounter where Pearson will tell Javier about Watson's cabin. When Pearson then mentions it to Arthur, Arthur will comment telling him he knows all about it.

 

Never seen the articles on the gunslingers. Usually I buy the newspapers in game so Arthur can have a read before sleeping haha.

 

17 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Does it really? I thought it was like Spines where no matter how you played the mission Arthur and Hosea will always talk at camp as though you chose the daytime approach.

Yes. If you get arrested, you get the usual "That all got a little messy" comment, but if you escape the law, Arthur will ask Lenny what happened to him in Valentine.

[BleddynRPG]

On 4/7/2025 at 1:00 AM, luckycanadian95 said:

It's not too surprising that he didn't write about the place earlier when he collected the debts because he was focused on a job and didn't have much time to learn about the ranch.

 

I agree. The question is when Arthur beat up Seamus, because he always mentions it when we sell him goods.

[luckycanadian95]

On 4/7/2025 at 10:49 AM, Dan_1983 said:

Yes. If you get arrested, you get the usual "That all got a little messy" comment, but if you escape the law, Arthur will ask Lenny what happened to him in Valentine.

I tried both outcomes and you're absolutely right, the camp dialogue with Lenny is different.

 

When you get arrested:

• Arthur - That all got a little messy, huh?

• Lenny - I reckon it's best if we just put it behind us.

• Arthur - Suits me.

When you get escape:

• Arthur - So, uh, what happened to you in Valentine?

• Lenny - I don't remember too much. You?

• Arthur - I woke up in the middle of nowhere. Messy

I still prefer getting arrested for the extra cutscene and to avoid the horse issue you mentioned, but I guess we can't say that one outcome is canon.

 

On 4/7/2025 at 10:49 AM, Dan_1983 said:

I don't think it's a newspaper article, but rather a newspaper clipping found at the cabin regarding Edgar Watson's escape from jail and the bounty on his head. Also in Chapter 2, there is a camp encounter where Pearson will tell Javier about Watson's cabin. When Pearson then mentions it to Arthur, Arthur will comment telling him he knows all about it.

Ahh you might be right. I don't think I've ever seen that interaction with Javier and Pearson, does it happen at a particular time in the chapter?

 

On 4/7/2025 at 10:49 AM, Dan_1983 said:

Never seen the articles on the gunslingers. Usually I buy the newspapers in game so Arthur can have a read before sleeping haha.

Aha same, I'll often buy and then forget about them. The gunslinger articles are unlocked by Pouring Forth Oil IV, so you could technically meet them late in chapter two and still follow the newspapers, but I kind of suspect that Arthur would be too worried about the federal agents at this point to consider an extended trip to Big Valley and the Grizzlies.

 

Here's the first one that arguably implies Emmet Granger should still be alive by the time of publication, so by the time of PFO4:

Spoiler

NEW EDITION FROM FALCON CLAW DRAWS PROTEST. ANTICIGARETTE LEAGUE WARNS CARD SPREADS HABIT TO YOUTH.

 

For many a year, man and boy alike have delighted in all manner of collectible cards included in pouches, packets and tins of tobacco. But a new set from Falcon Claw tobacco that celebrates famous gunslingers and outlaws have drawn the ire of Puritan groups. The cards honor gunslingers such as Black Belle, Jim "Boy" Calloway and even Emmet Granger, a known sadistic killer who has in recent years turned to hog fancying.

 

The Butcher Brothers, who ran afoul of legendary gunslinger Landon Ricketts, are also featured. Mexican desperado Flaco Hernandez graces one card. "When the likes of Frank Heck, The Otis Miller Boys, or the coward Billy Midnight who shot many men in the back are celebrated in this way, it spreads the contaminating influences and effects of the cigarette habit." said Miss Hattie Beardsley of the Anticigarette League. Stores report that the tobacco has been selling well.

 

And here's the other one indicating that Flaco is most likely alive by the time of PFO4:

Spoiler

GRIZZLIES UNDER SIEGE. BOLDNESS OF FLACO'S GANG WORRIES LAW.  

 

Some of the most desperate bandits in the region are imposing a reign of terror on the Grizzlies and surrounding country. Led by famous gunslinger, outlaw and robber, Flaco Hernández, a gang of thieves has raided numerous local towns, including Strawberry and Valentine. In one daring but ultimately fruitless train robbery, the safe and strong boxes were blown to atoms.

 

Frightened passengers were held hostage though not, mercifully, molested. Reverend Eunice Garrand has called for the expulsion of what he calls "all men of Mexican ancestry as they bring villainy and wanton crime to our great country.

 

This assumes of course that we think the papers are a valid type of evidence. In this case the timing suggested by the papers seems to match up nicely with other evidence that we have for the gunslingers, but in general I have some doubts about how reliable the papers can be. For example, Blessed is a mission that you'd expect would be reported on quickly since it involves a literal massacre in Strawberry, however the article isn't actually published until Magicians for Sport, at least according to the wiki.

 

12 hours ago, BleddynRPG said:

 

I agree. The question is when Arthur beat up Seamus, because he always mentions it when we sell him goods.

 No idea about this honestly 

[Dan_1983]

On 4/8/2025 at 8:09 PM, luckycanadian95 said:

The gunslinger articles are unlocked by Pouring Forth Oil IV, so you could technically meet them late in chapter two and still follow the newspapers, but I kind of suspect that Arthur would be too worried about the federal agents at this point to consider an extended trip to Big Valley and the Grizzlies.

Just an article reporting the uproar on glorifying a bunch of killers on cigarette cards. To me it doesn't really indicate much.

 

You have to remember that Arthur kills Flaco in the middle of nowhere in the snowy north where no ones goes. So it would be ages before his body is ever found if it isn't already devoured by scavengers like wolves and bears haha. I usually face Flaco near the end of chapter 2 anyway.

 

I do face Billy Midnight and Emmet Granger in Chapter 3 and do Black Belle and end the whole side quest in Chapter 4.

 

I don't really follow the newspapers as a timeline as Micah's jail break and escape isn't reported until Chapter 3 after Magicians for Sport.

Edited April 9 by Dan_1983

[Dan_1983]

18 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Ahh you might be right. I don't think I've ever seen that interaction with Javier and Pearson, does it happen at a particular time in the chapter?

It happens in Chapter 2 usually near the end. Here's a video of it.

 

 

[propanecocaine71]

On 3/13/2025 at 10:13 PM, Dan_1983 said:

 

 

My chapter 2 start usually looks something like this.

 

Who is Not Without Sin

 

Americans at Rest

 

The First Shall Be the Last

 

Exit Pursued by A Bruised Ego - return to camp with Hosea. 

 

Polite Society Valentine Style

Good Honest Snake Oil

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited April 11 by propanecocaine71
Changed my mission order.

[propanecocaine71]

On 3/22/2025 at 3:06 PM, luckycanadian95 said:

That's totally fair @BleddynRPG, you should do what you enjoy lol

 

I just started a new game to reset my camp dialogue and noticed something interesting. As we know Arthur will narrate from his journal at various points of the story, for example just before the mission to rob the Leviticus Cornwall train he says "It's been a bad few weeks, but… Dutch being Dutch, he is busy making plans and… Dutch being Dutch, those plans involve robbery and dreams."

 

However, the journal entry those lines are from is unlocked by Old Friends, which means if you play that mission before Genesis it's actually possible to read this entry before we even hear the narration. In every other case though, correct me if I'm wrong, we only hear narration for brand new entries, and we usually see Arthur writing in his journal at the same time, which could imply all these "inner-thought" moments are taking place during the actual writing of the journal entry.

 

If that's true, maybe this is further evidence that Genesis should happen before Old Friends?

I've always preferred Genesis before old friends, I feel like arthurs priority would be gathering food over colm. Plus I have dialogue with dutch right after hunting with Charles, saying be ready to ride out soon. 

[luckycanadian95]

On 4/9/2025 at 7:18 AM, Dan_1983 said:

Just an article reporting the uproar on glorifying a bunch of killers on cigarette cards. To me it doesn't really indicate much.

 

You have to remember that Arthur kills Flaco in the middle of nowhere in the snowy north where no ones goes. So it would be ages before his body is ever found if it isn't already devoured by scavengers like wolves and bears haha. I usually face Flaco near the end of chapter 2 anyway.

 

I do face Billy Midnight and Emmet Granger in Chapter 3 and do Black Belle and end the whole side quest in Chapter 4.

 

I don't really follow the newspapers as a timeline as Micah's jail break and escape isn't reported until Chapter 3 after Magicians for Sport.

I see what you mean, it's plausible that we already killed them and news just hasn't reached anyone yet. But usually in these games when an article references a mission, it's meant to serve one of two purposes. Either it introduces the characters or premise of the mission as a kind of prologue, which makes sense to read beforehand, or it comments on the events of the mission like an epilogue, which makes sense to read afterward. I think both of these articles go under the first category since the authors believe that Emmet and/or Flaco are still alive.

 

But again like we've said, the newspapers might not be very reliable. I wonder if other articles get published at the wrong time or if Blessed was just a one-off mistake?

 

On 4/9/2025 at 7:26 AM, Dan_1983 said:

It happens in Chapter 2 usually near the end. Here's a video of it.

Thanks, I've definitely never seen that before aha. When do you like to visit the cabin? I think it should be timed with Arcadia 2 since Mason is pretty much right beside it.

 

21 hours ago, propanecocaine71 said:

I've always preferred Genesis before old friends, I feel like arthurs priority would be gathering food over colm. Plus I have dialogue with dutch right after hunting with Charles, saying be ready to ride out soon. 

Yeah same, there's quite a few reasons IMO to think Genesis probably happens before Old Friends

Edited April 12 by luckycanadian95

[Dan_1983]

5 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Thanks, I've definitely never seen that before aha. When do you like to visit the cabin? I think it should be timed with Arcadia 2 since Mason is pretty much right beside it.

Usually near the end of Chapter 2. 

 

I usually go north and deal with Flaco Hernandez, visit both Davey and Jenny's graves, spend the night in the cabin at Colter and then head south past Ewing Basin towards Big Valley. Just south of Ewing Basin in the forest on the way to Big Valley, you'll normally encounter the biggest pack of wolves you'll see in game, so it's good to deal with them and stock up on Big Game meat if you don't have any. Sometimes I just kill a predator in game, leave it there and be on my way. It's me or them haha.

 

This is when I head towards Albert Mason and do his second encounter and then do Watson's cabin afterwards.

Edited April 13 by Dan_1983

[luckycanadian95]

13 hours ago, Dan_1983 said:

Usually near the end of Chapter 2. 

 

I usually go north and deal with Flaco Hernandez, visit both Davey and Jenny's graves, spend the night in the cabin at Colter and then head south past Ewing Basin towards Big Valley. Just south of Ewing Basin in the forest on the way to Big Valley, you'll normally encounter the biggest pack of wolves you'll see in game, so it's good to deal with them and stock up on Big Game meat if you don't have any. Sometimes I just kill a predator in game, leave it there and be on my way. It's me or them haha.

 

This is when I head towards Albert Mason and do his second encounter and then do Watson's cabin afterwards.

When it comes to wolves it's usually me lol

 

I like to meet the gunslingers in the order they're presented, Emmet first and Flaco second, so for me that trip up north usually takes place in chapter three, although I'm still not sure if the harmonica is a good enough reason to visit Emmet so late. I'll try doing Watson's Cabin after WLOAT3 since that feels like a natural break point, or maybe after An American Pastoral Scene because that mission introduces Little Creek River in the story.

[luckycanadian95]

On 3/15/2025 at 12:19 AM, LeviGudmundsson said:

Personally, I consider the horse issue post-'Polite Society...' just to be an error. It is disappointing that Rockstar didn't think to introduce a tutorial for hitching a ride on a wagon that at least takes you near to camp. That is what I usually do.

Lately I've been considering this myself. Is the horse issue evidence that PSVS goes after Exit, or just a mistake?

 

The problem I have with my chapter two order right now is that PSVS falls on the sixth or seventh day, so basically three weeks after the gang arrived in the Heartlands (when you factor in the time jump after Eastward Bound), which no longer fits the dialogue from Mary-Beth about the girls being cooped up for a couple weeks.

 

Spoiler

Who is Not Without Sin   #Afternoon
Sleep at camp until morning
───────────────────────
Americans at Rest   #Afternoon
Sleep at camp until night
───────────────────────
The First Shall be Last   #Dawn
Welcome Home Party
Sleep at camp until noon
───────────────────────
Money Lending and Other Sins I   #Evening
Sleep at camp until morning
───────────────────────
Debt Collection: Lilly Millet   #Morning
Debt Collection: Chick Matthews   #Noon
Debt Collection: Mr. Wrobel   #Afternoon
Money Lending and Other Sins II   #Evening
Sleep at camp until noon
───────────────────────
Exit, Pursued by a Bruised Ego   #Afternoon   #Return with Hosea
───────────────────────
Polite Society, Valentine Style   #Morning

 

I could postpone ML1-2, but I think ML explains why Arthur tells Hosea "I could do with a break from this place" and views the hunting trip as a day off. So in my opinion ML and Exit take place back to back, and playing ML later means that we should play Exit later as well.

 

The only ways to condense this list, while keeping Exit before PSVS, would be the following:

• Do AAR and WS together on the first day.
• Collect only the Wrobel debt after the party.

If we do both of those things, PSVS can happen on the fifth day, which I think is plausible enough when it comes to Mary-Beth's dialogue. But I'm not a fan of either solution, so that's why I'm debating if PSVS should just go the day after the party, followed shortly by ML and Exit.

Edited April 14 by luckycanadian95

[Dan_1983]

10 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

When it comes to wolves it's usually me lol

 

I like to meet the gunslingers in the order they're presented, Emmet first and Flaco second, so for me that trip up north usually takes place in chapter three, although I'm still not sure if the harmonica is a good enough reason to visit Emmet so late. I'll try doing Watson's Cabin after WLOAT3 since that feels like a natural break point, or maybe after An American Pastoral Scene because that mission introduces Little Creek River in the story.

I have done Emmet Granger in the middle of Chapter 2 and then Flaco near the end of chapter 2. The harmonica isn't really an issue for me. Arthur picks it up in chapter 2 after killing Emmet and by the time Sadie mentions one in chapter 3, I doubt he remembers he has it.

 

I find it good to head north to deal with Flaco just after the home robbery with Javier as you're half way north already.

 

I have done Flaco in chapter 3 and to be honest, I hated the long ride from Clemens Point to near Colter.

 

The worst item I find very inconvenient is Molly's pocket mirror. So I have to find a reason to visit near Martha's Swain in Chapter 3 and thankfully this is when I usually wrap up the Central Union Railroad camp side quest. Also gettting Hosea's book can still get my adrenaline pumping as you never know when that guard will come in and catch you in the house haha.

 

Edited April 14 by Dan_1983

[BleddynRPG]

16 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

The problem I have with my chapter two order right now is that PSVS falls on the sixth or seventh day, so basically three weeks after the gang arrived in the Heartlands (when you factor in the time jump after Eastward Bound), which no longer fits the dialogue from Mary-Beth about the girls being cooped up for a couple weeks.

That's why for me PSVS is the first mission that the authors put under the player's nose. After the last play of chapter two, I move PSVS back to first place, WIWS drops to second place. Although Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego is tempting, because the theme fits the need to obtain supplies, although of course it is strange then to talk about Sean and Micah.

 

16 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

 

I could postpone ML1-2, but I think ML explains why Arthur tells Hosea "I could do with a break from this place" and views the hunting trip as a day off. So in my opinion ML and Exit take place back to back, and playing ML later means that we should play Exit later as well.

I usually play it that way. Although back at camp Arthur wonders if he'll get a scolding for disappearing and giving another speech about getting money, which sounds a bit odd since Arthur just collected Strauss's debt.

 

[Dan_1983]

7 hours ago, BleddynRPG said:

I usually play it that way. Although back at camp Arthur wonders if he'll get a scolding for disappearing and giving another speech about getting money, which sounds a bit odd since Arthur just collected Strauss's debt.

 

That's happened to me a few times. Returned to camp with Hosea and had Dutch approach me about helping Strauss. I thought it was very fitting haha.

 

I have both the pre order war horse and UE thoroughbred, so I can Exit Pursued by A Bruised Ego early without worrying about money for a horse.

[BleddynRPG]

9 hours ago, Dan_1983 said:

I have both the pre order war horse and UE thoroughbred, so I can Exit Pursued by A Bruised Ego early without worrying about money for a horse.

I always take a thoroughbred because Arthur looks funny on a smaller horse when he rides with John and Bill to Six Point Cabin.

 

What is the default choice in Exit, returning with Hosea or finishing the hunt? I wonder about that, because when Hosea says Arthur knows the area because he wandered around here, it could be about him returning from the hunt alone.

[Dan_1983]

29 minutes ago, BleddynRPG said:

I always take a thoroughbred because Arthur looks funny on a smaller horse when he rides with John and Bill to Six Point Cabin.

 

What is the default choice in Exit, returning with Hosea or finishing the hunt? I wonder about that, because when Hosea says Arthur knows the area because he wandered around here, it could be about him returning from the hunt alone.

That's a good point. If you stay behind, hunt the bear, and sell it's pelt to the trapper, then you go past Emerald Ranch on the way back to camp. Usually though, I take a detour and kill the legandary coyote while I am at it as I like it's trinket.

[luckycanadian95]

@Dan_1983 just wondering since you don't usually play ML before Exit, what do you think is the reason for Arthur saying "I could do with a break from this place"?

 

Even if you don't care about having money to get a decent horse because you prefer the free ones, I think we need some event in the narrative to explain why Arthur feels this way, and debt collecting stands out to me as the most likely incident the writers would have in mind.

 

On 4/14/2025 at 5:33 AM, BleddynRPG said:

That's why for me PSVS is the first mission that the authors put under the player's nose. After the last play of chapter two, I move PSVS back to first place, WIWS drops to second place. Although Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego is tempting, because the theme fits the need to obtain supplies, although of course it is strange then to talk about Sean and Micah.

I still believe that PSVS should be done after WS and AAR, but if you did want to start the chapter with PSVS, it likely makes sense to visit the boys in the saloon after returning the borrowed horse, because Hosea told us the boys were already in town so they'd be the main reason why Arthur goes there with Uncle in the first place. It'd be kind of unrealistic too leaving them in town for multiple days.

 

The dialogue about Sean and Micah can still work as foreshadowing for their missions, but like we've said there's other reasons to think Exit happens later:

• On their way into the mountains Arthur and Hosea will talk about Trelawny, which is strange if players haven't even met this character yet during AAR.
• Arthur will only have enough money to buy the worst horse at the Valentine stables, which is a significant downgrade from our current horse.
• Hosea says "It's been a rough couple of weeks" in the opening cutscene of Exit, despite the fact that presumably the gang has just been relaxing during the time jump after Eastward Bound.
• The journal entry for the hunting trip says that Arthur "took a day off" with Hosea, which implies that he wanted a break from doing his usual work for the gang, but at this point in the chapter he hasn't been doing much work lately.

On 4/14/2025 at 5:33 AM, BleddynRPG said:

I usually play it that way. Although back at camp Arthur wonders if he'll get a scolding for disappearing and giving another speech about getting money, which sounds a bit odd since Arthur just collected Strauss's debt.

If anything that dialogue makes even more sense after ML, because Arthur would be referring to the speech he got just recently when Dutch told him to collect debts:

• Dutch - I need you to do me a favor, nothing too… serious. I need you to help Herr Strauss.
• Arthur - I've been working hard, Dutch.
• Dutch - I know… and I know Strauss' business is not too… glamorous, but it pays. Please, son, for me.

20 hours ago, BleddynRPG said:

What is the default choice in Exit, returning with Hosea or finishing the hunt?

I prefer to return with Hosea and hunt the bear later, since the characters have dialogue when you get back to camp (as opposed to Spines for example which does not have any additional dialogue), and it helps you postpone the interaction with Grimshaw where she tells you that Hosea wants you to visit him at Emerald Ranch, which I avoid because I'm pretty sure that Exit and Spines were not meant to happen back to back in the original script.
 

20 hours ago, BleddynRPG said:

I wonder about that, because when Hosea says Arthur knows the area because he wandered around here, it could be about him returning from the hunt alone.

Maybe, but there's no guarantee that Arthur goes through Emerald Ranch to get back to camp from the lake, and in my opinion he'd be more likely to follow the same road back through Cumberland Forest and Valentine since it's the only route he knows in an unfamiliar region.

 

I think it's much more likely the writers were referencing the events of money lending because that's an actual mission in the script that brings you to this location.

 

Plus I try to avoid riding through parts of the map before they've been introduced in the story 

[luckycanadian95]

On 4/14/2025 at 5:33 AM, BleddynRPG said:

Although Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego is tempting, because the theme fits the need to obtain supplies, although of course it is strange then to talk about Sean and Micah.

Actually yeah the Micah dialogue would be strange because they went scouting like yesterday

 

Spoiler

Arthur - Where do you think Micah and Lenny got to? Susan sent them out scouting, but I figured they'd be back by now.

Hosea - I have no idea. I hope they weren't picked up.

Edited April 16 by luckycanadian95

[BleddynRPG]

8 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Even if you don't care about having money to get a decent horse because you prefer the free ones, I think we need some event in the narrative to explain why Arthur feels this way, and debt collecting stands out to me as the most likely incident the writers would have in mind.

 

Arthur: I could do with a break from this place.

Hosea: Oh, me too. It's been a rough couple of weeks. 

 

The above seems to fit ML->Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego, but what's been hard in the last couple (2?) weeks. What does Hosea mean? Which weeks are we talking about?

 

Arthur: Let’s see if Dutch gives us any crap about disappearing like that. I don’t need another “We gotta be out there making money” speech.

 

It sounds strange to me if we just collected the debt.

 

For me Exit is a case like WS and you can squeeze this mission in at any time. With the difference that returning from Hosea fits when we do it somewhere between some urgent missions.

In the case of ML->Exit, it fits to stay, because then we shouldn't be afraid of Dutch's whining.

 

8 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

in my opinion he'd be more likely to follow the same road back through Cumberland Forest and Valentine since it's the only route he knows in an unfamiliar region

I have a completely different opinion, Arthur is a notorious wanderer, even in the camp they are surprised when he is not on an expedition.

 

8 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Actually yeah the Micah dialogue would be strange because they went scouting like yesterday

 

I once did the first chapter by choosing Exit after WS and I specifically did not choose any option to talk about Micah and Sean.

Edited April 16 by BleddynRPG

[BleddynRPG]

6 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

It'd be kind of unrealistic too leaving them in town for multiple days.

 

I wonder how many days they could be in Valentine before Arthur checks on them. Dutch at some point says for Arthur to check on them because he's been gone for a long time. I just don't remember how many days, events, pass before he says that.

[BleddynRPG]

7 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

I'm pretty sure that Exit and Spines were not meant to happen back to back in the original script.

Why? Kieran before Spines?

I don't like doing Paying a Social Call too early, because it opens up too many urgent things, and after Exit I have a full roaming and hunting kit, although a fence would also be useful. Funny fact, ML before PaSC and we may have the knives before Bill gives them to us.

 

I generally don't like it when there are too many pending missions, unless they're easy to avoid like Kieran.

That's why things like Hosea Hey Arthur or Uncle with the disappearing cart still annoy me. Besides, the cart also appears at the beginning of chapter three with Sadie's mission.

Edited April 16 by BleddynRPG

[Dan_1983]

11 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

@Dan_1983 just wondering since you don't usually play ML before Exit, what do you think is the reason for Arthur saying "I could do with a break from this place"?

No but I play a few missions before Exit so Arthur has put in work before I go hunting with Hosea. When he is not in a mission, my Arthur is out hunting a lot near camp for food or in camp doing chores.

 

Fighting a huge stranger whilst rescuing Swanson, having a huge saloon fight and going through an intense gun fight with bounty hunters to rescue Sean would be enough to warrant a break in my opinion.

[Dan_1983]

21 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

I prefer to return with Hosea and hunt the bear later, since the characters have dialogue when you get back to camp (as opposed to Spines for example which does not have any additional dialogue), and it helps you postpone the interaction with Grimshaw where she tells you that Hosea wants you to visit him at Emerald Ranch, which I avoid because I'm pretty sure that Exit and Spines were not meant to happen back to back in the original script.
 

Maybe, but there's no guarantee that Arthur goes through Emerald Ranch to get back to camp from the lake, and in my opinion he'd be more likely to follow the same road back through Cumberland Forest and Valentine since it's the only route he knows in an unfamiliar region.

 

I think it's much more likely the writers were referencing the events of money lending because that's an actual mission in the script that brings you to this location.

 

Plus I try to avoid riding through parts of the map before they've been introduced in the story 

Who stays behind just to make the their own way back to camp? Makes no sense to me as Hosea asks Arthur if he's going back to camp with him or staying behind to track the bear down. People stay behind to hunt the bear. If you do hunt the bear and sell it's pelt to the trapper, then Arthur goes past Emerald Ranch on his way back to camp.

Edited April 16 by Dan_1983

[luckycanadian95]

1 hour ago, Dan_1983 said:

Who stays behind just to make the their own way back to camp? Makes no sense to me as Hosea asks Arthur if he's going back to camp with him or staying behind to track the bear down. People stay behind to hunt the bear. If you do hunt the bear and sell it's pelt to the trapper, then Arthur goes past Emerald Ranch on his way back to camp.

Yeah of course I would stay to hunt the bear. There are multiple paths leading from the trapper, and sure one of them goes through Emerald Ranch, but I prefer to follow the trail that loops north-west back toward the lake and Moonstone Pond. Don't you find it strange passing through the ranch, where Hosea is nowhere to be found, and then having Grimshaw tell you that Hosea wants you to backtrack to the place you just came from?

Edited April 16 by luckycanadian95

[luckycanadian95]

12 hours ago, Dan_1983 said:

No but I play a few missions before Exit so Arthur has put in work before I go hunting with Hosea. When he is not in a mission, my Arthur is out hunting a lot near camp for food or in camp doing chores.

 

Fighting a huge stranger whilst rescuing Swanson, having a huge saloon fight and going through an intense gun fight with bounty hunters to rescue Sean would be enough to warrant a break in my opinion.

That's definitely plausible, although the party for Sean would have given Arthur a break already, so maybe there should be at least one mission after the party before Exit to explain why Arthur suddenly needs another break.

 

I guess my other reservation is that Arthur does missions like these on a regular basis, and yet he rarely mentions needing a break or wanting a day off, so the fact that R* specifically chose to mention his exhaustion during Exit makes me feel it was supposed to follow a particularly brutal mission for Arthur, and here we have Money Lending available where Arthur explicitly writes about how much he detests that type of work. It's by far the most negative journal entry in the first half of the chapter.

 

I think especially if you look at the journal like a novel, where each main entry would flow naturally into the next, I'd say that ML does the best job of setting up Exit in terms of providing a definite reason in the text for why Arthur might characterize the hunting trip as a day off.

 

Journal entry for Money Lending and Other Sins

Spoiler

Herr Strauss is back lending money, and I’m back collecting it. The work mostly revolts me and shames me. Somehow, robbing people honestly with a gun and fists is less repellant than robbing them fully in accordance with the law. It’ll be the usual sort of desperados — sick farmers, pregnant maids, lovesick young men, and other dupes desperate enough and stupid enough to take Strauss’ terms. A usurer’s life may be a comfortable one, but it is foul work.

 

Journal entry for Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego

Spoiler

Took a day off and went off hunting with Hosea. He really seems to be getting his strength back a bunch, although he was lucky not to die as this big bear he’d been after turned on us. I thought when we was stuck up in the mountains that the cold and the misery would kill him, and we’d bury him like we buried Jenny and Davey. But he pulled through and he’ll live a while yet. I love Dutch like a father, but in many ways, I love Hosea even more. He’s kind and fair and like a human being. Dutch is something else. This bear was also something else. Size of a god damn hotel, it was and mean with it.

Edited April 17 by luckycanadian95

[luckycanadian95]

20 hours ago, BleddynRPG said:

Arthur: I could do with a break from this place.

Hosea: Oh, me too. It's been a rough couple of weeks. 

 

The above seems to fit ML->Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego, but what's been hard in the last couple (2?) weeks. What does Hosea mean? Which weeks are we talking about?

Good question, I've wondered about that before too. Hosea doesn't really do much in this chapter so he probably means that it was a rough time for the gang as a whole, rather than a difficult time for him specifically. 

 

There's an interesting similarity between Hosea mentioning a couple of weeks and the fact that Mary-Beth says the girls have been stuck at camp for a couple of weeks as well. Maybe they're both referring to the time jump after Eastward Bound? That period is a black box in the sense that we don't really know what went down, but the girls supposedly never left camp, nothing was important enough for Arthur to write in his journal, and afterward the characters are still pretty unfamiliar with the region, so my guess is that basically nothing happened. But it could still be considered rough in the sense that the gang has no money and everyone is still recovering from the mountains. But like I've said before l doubt that Exit was supposed to take place so early for the reasons we've mentioned. It seems especially weird for Arthur to write about the hunting trip like it was a day off when he probably just had the last two weeks off lol.

 

I think Hosea probably just views their time at Horseshoe Overlook as somewhat negative for most of the chapter and his dialogue could fit anywhere. The gang just barely survived the hardships of Blackwater and Colter, and now as he describes it they find themselves "stuck... east of the Grizzlies and out of money... and a long way from our dream of virgin land in the west." Sure the gang does manage a few good scores in this chapter but for the most part they still remain extremely poor compared to what they were before, everyone is still mourning the loss of Jenny and the Callander brothers, and certain members of the gang like John, Abigail, Swanson and especially Sadie are pretty depressed most of the time.

 

20 hours ago, BleddynRPG said:

Arthur: Let’s see if Dutch gives us any crap about disappearing like that. I don’t need another “We gotta be out there making money” speech.

 

It sounds strange to me if we just collected the debt.

 

For me Exit is a case like WS and you can squeeze this mission in at any time. With the difference that returning from Hosea fits when we do it somewhere between some urgent missions.

In the case of ML->Exit, it fits to stay, because then we shouldn't be afraid of Dutch's whining.

I think you can interpret it both ways honestly. Either he means Dutch recently gave him that kind of speech and he doesn't want to hear another, or he hasn't gotten a speech like that recently and therefore worries that Dutch will give him one now that he's taken a day off. 

 

19 hours ago, BleddynRPG said:

I wonder how many days they could be in Valentine before Arthur checks on them. Dutch at some point says for Arthur to check on them because he's been gone for a long time. I just don't remember how many days, events, pass before he says that.

For me that interaction with Dutch happens the first time I leave camp and return outside of a mission, as long as I venture far enough. I usually avoid him though because 9 out of 10 times the dialogue cuts out for me, it seems to be pretty bugged on current versions of the game. 

 

In my opinion they probably stay no more than two days. Valentine is described as a dumpy little cattle town and there's not much to keep them busy. And I don't think we can say the boys come and go from town either because the description for AAR on the map says "Hosea told you that Javier, Bill and Charles were already in Valentine" which to me implies the boys are meant to still be on the same initial trip that Hosea mentioned to us.

 

19 hours ago, BleddynRPG said:

Funny fact, ML before PaSC and we may have the knives before Bill gives them to us.

Huh interesting, where do you pick those up during ML? I haven't really noticed it before 

 

19 hours ago, BleddynRPG said:

Why? Kieran before Spines?

I don't like doing Paying a Social Call too early, because it opens up too many urgent things, and after Exit I have a full roaming and hunting kit, although a fence would also be useful.

No I agree with you about Social Call timing. It's just the impression I get from looking at the dialogue in both Exit and Spines. During the former mission the characters seem less hopeful and talk about how the gang still needs money to get back on their feet. In the latter mission they have a follow-up discussion, where Arthur asks Hosea how he feels about things now, and Hosea replies "Good, I think. Better." which means that enough time must have passed since Exit for his opinion to have changed.

 

To me that dialogue also implies the gang is doing much better now, since Hosea feels more hopeful, which is supported by their dialogue toward the end of the mission about how they're now starting to get back on their feet. So not only have several days passed between Hosea's missions but I think the gang is meant to have earned a decent amount of money during that time.

 

Here are the lines of dialogue for reference:

Spoiler

Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego

• Arthur - I could do with a break from this place.

• Hosea - Oh, me too. It's been a rough couple of weeks.

• Arthur - (several minutes later) I miss [the Callander brothers].

  Hosea - Jenny too. She had some spark, that girl.

  Arthur - It must be pretty hard on Lenny, you could tell he was pretty sweet on her.

  Hosea - Well, Lenny and Jenny could never have worked. That's like Arthur and Martha. Or Bill and Phil.

• Arthur - (laughing) Maybe you're right... Does feel a bit like our luck died with them, too.

  Hosea: Nonsense. We'll be alright. Just need some money to get back on our feet.

The Spines of America

• Arthur - How you feeling about things now?
• Hosea - What things?
• Arthur - This place, the gang... been here a few weeks now.
• Hosea - Good, I think. Better.
• Arthur - (later after robbing the stagecoach) So how long you think we're gonna stick around here for?
• Hosea - Not sure. Until we can't, I suppose. Feels like we're starting to get back on our feet, slowly but surely. Just need to keep at it.

Edited April 17 by luckycanadian95

[BleddynRPG]

56 minutes ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Huh interesting, where do you pick those up during ML? I haven't really noticed it before 

 

Camp upgrade.

[propanecocaine71]

So I started a new playthrough and I think I found a good order for early chapter 2 that worked out pretty good for me. 

 

Day 1 - who is without sin (start test of faith on way/discover trading post/ explore until 5pm) 

 

Day 2 - Americans at Rest (before I get to Valentine i visited castor's ridge then talked to downes and calloway before bar fight, after bar fight hunt food for camp then rest for the evening) 

 

Day 3 - The First Shall Be last (head out early the following morning after recovering from the bar fight. Save saun return to camp but make a quick stop on the way starting the all that glitters, after that stay up all night partying) 

 

Day 4 - All that glitters/hunting for Pearson and collectibles (pretty self explanatory, Arthur being hungover would take it easy hunt/ look for treasure discover limpany 

 

Day 5 - polite Society Valentine Style (two days after party so girls are bored and two weeks and five days doesn't really stretch Mary-Beth's two weeks comment plus it's pretty obvious this was meant after Americans at Rest) 

 

Day 6 - paying a social call (hunt for camp/discover mail Wagon after mission) 

 

 

I really like how this has turned out so far, I plan on doing Money lending next followed by exit pursed by a bruised ego as I feel that mission is better suited on the middle of chapter 2.  Sorry for long post in advance. 

 

Edited April 17 by propanecocaine71

[Dan_1983]

8 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Yeah of course I would stay to hunt the bear. There are multiple paths leading from the trapper, and sure one of them goes through Emerald Ranch, but I prefer to follow the trail that loops north-west back toward the lake and Moonstone Pond. Don't you find it strange passing through the ranch, where Hosea is nowhere to be found, and then having Grimshaw tell you that Hosea wants you to backtrack to the place you just came from?

I don't pass through the ranch. I pass by it riding next to the train tracks heading south to Dewberry Creek to hunt the legendary coyote. I usually have Arthur look at the legendary animal map to see what he can hunt next after visiting the trapper and usually killing those two Murfrees looting some poor bugger at a nearby camp.

 

I am usually never in a rush to get back to camp if I stay behind and hunt the bear.