RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 - "Chronological" Mission Order

[jimmyoneshot]

Also here is some more input on Chapter 2 based on my meticulous replays I've been doing of it - I have noticed a couple of lines of dialogue which strongly suggest the order of some other missions or at least which one should be done before the other:-

 

- During 'Spines of America' when at Emerald Ranch Hosea tells Arthur to lead the way and when Arthur asks why Hosea replies with "You're the one who's been out gallivanting around here" (https://youtu.be/I2Yv_0TN2Dk?t=123) which means that Arthur must have been here in a gang story related mission before this. Hosea says this line even if you have never been to Emerald ranch before so it seems canon that Arthur must've been here beforehand. The only gang story related mission that brings you here before this is 'Money Lending and Other Sins' so in my mind this means that 'Money Lending and Other Sins' must come before 'Spines of America'. Sure Hosea could've just meant that Arthur has been out and about in general but Hosea has been out too so that wouldn't make much sense

 

- Another important thing to note is that during 'Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego' Arthur asks Hosea "Did you find a way to offload those Cornwall bonds yet?" (https://youtu.be/ooGAc0NCHoA?t=194) and with this he is referring to the fact that Dutch has told him that Hosea is the one who will sell the bonds and he does this in the intro cutscene of 'A Quiet Time' when Arthur says "You find a buyer for them bonds we stole" and Dutch replies "Not yet, but Hosea's working on it" (https://youtu.be/1FXjletHDPA). Hosea and Arthur have this dialogue even if you haven't done A Quiet Time yet so it seems that canonically 'A Quiet Time' should be done before 'Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego'.

 

- It also makes sense to do 'Blessed Are the Meek' straight after 'A Quiet Time' because Arthur knows Micah is about to be hanged so it's likely this mission should go before the Hosea missions too

 

- Also note that doing 'Blessed Are The Meek' at some point before you do 'Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego' adds an extra dialogue option/changes the existing dialogue option that Arthur can say to Hosea about Micah when they are hunting

 

- Yet another thing I noticed in chapter 3 which relates back to this chapter is later on in the mission 'Preaching Forgiveness As He went' with Lenny, Lenny has some dialogue as you are riding out which changes if you have done missions for Sadie and Hosea earlier, however if you haven't done these missions Arthur says that Lenny has got gumption for going out and finding this place and says "...when you could've been.." and Lenny interrupts and says "getting drunk and sleeping it off in a jail cell" and then "something makes me think that business with the law wouldn't have been so harmless if it occurred in these parts" which means that it must be canon for Lenny and Arthur to get caught otherwise Arthur wouldn't have had no business with the law (https://youtu.be/f_86XkvOU2M?t=47)

[RamArmy]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:35 PM, Spydr Webz said:

!!! SPOILER WARNING !!!

 

And there you have it! I'm sure this is far from accurate, especially Chapter VI, and I realize that I may have missed a lot of things. For example, I did not include most of the Money Lending Missions simply because I did not play them my first time around. I did not include "The Course of True Love [IV-V]" because I could not find any good spot to place it. If you have any suggestions about stranger missions or side activities that would fit neatly in here, let me know!

 

If you like this list, give it a try during your next play through and let me know how it goes. Additionally, if you have your own take on the "chronological" order, I encourage you to share in this thread. I'm still not 100% sure on this so I'd like to hear other people takes on it!

 

<a href='http://i.imgur.com/31OI370' title=''><img src='http://i.imgur.com/31OI370.jpg' alt='' title='Hosted by imgur.com' /></a>

 

Thanks for for taking the time to puts this together.  As you see above, I’m numbering the missions on the strategy guide to do them in the order you are suggesting. 

 

The question I have is that after I finished numbering the mission of Chapter 6, I realize you don’t have a three missions on your list. Two are the money lending missions which I’m sure can be dropped in anywhere but the third is “Icarus and Friends” and since I’ve played only a few missions so far of the third chapter, I don’t know where this one would fall into your list. 

 

Any suggestions?

[Brgrabs]

@jimmyoneshot

 

Thanks for your detailed write up! In my experience it definitely makes sense to do Who is not Without Sin right before The First Shall be the Last, either on Day 2 or 3, in the morning. Arthur wakes up, does chores, has a bite to eat and realizes Swanson still isn't back in camp after inspecting his 'bible.'  After returning Swanson to camp you can speak to Dutch and he'll ask you to go save Sean (as long as you haven't initiated a conversation with him since completing Americans at Rest) at which point you ride to Blackwater and complete The First Shall be the Last.

 

Re: the Hosea missions: doesn't it feel wrong to leave Hosea sitting in camp saying 'Hey Arthur!' for the majority of Chapter 2? I like to do his first mission right after saving Sean and having the party, and his second after Money Lending and Other Sins. Also, I hate not having access to my saddle and brushing my horse so getting the first mission outta the way ASAP is handy.

[roe]

23 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Joined these boards because of this thread, because this topic is something I am intrigued with.

 

The most confusing one for me is when 'Who Is Without Sin' should be done in Chapter 2. What I mean is this:-

 

- 'Polite Society Valentine Style' seems to me like the most obvious one to do first because dialogue in this one suggests that this is Arthur's first trip into Valentine and it just feels like this is the intro mission to this chapter

 

- After you finish this mission you can return the horse you borrowed to it's owner which puts you back in Valentine with 'Americans At Rest' just around the corner so it makes sense to do that next. It makes sense story and realism wise too because that morning Hosea told you that "some of the boys are already in Valentine" which likely means that they have just visited there today. It's unlikely that the guys would be staying at the hotel so it makes no sense for Arthur to do other stuff and leave them there standing in the Saloon 

 

- Once this mission is complete Dutch tells you to get cleaned up and then go and meet Javier, Charles and Trelawny "when you're ready" i.e. 'The First Shall Be The Last'

 

- By this time it will likely be late in the day or early night so Arthur would likely rest first plus when you get to the guys they have a tent set up with the beds looking used so this makes sense as it looks like they have slept there overnight. Plus if you meet them and it's night time then time will automatically fast forward to morning as this is meant to be a day mission. I actually tried this - I met them at 11pm and after the cutscene it was about 6am

 

- The problem here is should you get Swanson now or get Sean? While it does seem strange to leave Swanson at the station for a day or 2, one thing I've noticed is that when you return him if you speak with Grimshaw afterwards she says "It looks like he's been up for days!" and Arthur replies "probably" which in my mind justified leaving him there for now while you get Sean as it's realistic that a poker game could go on for days

 

- Now here is the stupid part - If you rescue Sean first and return to camp, during Sean's party Swanson is there in camp at the party walking about as if you had rescued him. I'm pretty sure this is a bug/glitch because he should still be at Flatneck station at this point

 

- Another thing I tried is doing the Swanson mission on the way back after rescuing Sean, thinking that I could carry him in during the party and there may be some extra dialogue or something but this however will completely cancel Sean's party instead an the party won't happen. I tried and tested this too a couple of times

 

- So IN CONCLUSION it seems like 'Who Is Without Sin' was meant to be done before 'The First Shall be Last'. My issue with that is Arthur would likely play Poker as it acts as an intro to the poker game so this means that Arthur is sitting around playing Poker while Sean needs rescuing but I suppose realistically the guys could be scouting Blackwater for a day or 2

 

Hosea says that "Swanson seems to have found something at Flatneck Station", but that doesn't mean he's there the whole time, nor do the boys have to be constantly stuck in Valentine.  This is one of those occasions where there's really no right or wrong way to do it.  At the start of chapter 2 you're told of a few "leads", and ultimately none of them are urgent.  I think you're right that 'Polite Society, Valentine Style' makes the most sense as a chapter starter, and 'Americans at Rest' is a natural follow up too.

 

From what I remember there are only a few missions in the whole chapter that need to be done as quick as possible:

 

'The First Shall Be Last' - Sean needs rescuing so it would make sense that this is done as something of a priority when it's available

'Paying a Social Call' - Kieran has been with the gang for over 2 weeks at this point, so again it makes sense that he needs to be involved in something pretty quickly.  The gang wouldn't just keep him tied up for too long

'Blessed are the Meek?' - similar to Sean's rescue, this one should be done somewhat urgently when available

 

The rest of the missions can be intertwined however really, with the only other note I'd add being that there should be at least a few day gap between 'Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego' and 'The Spines of America'.

1 hour ago, Brgrabs said:

Re: the Hosea missions: doesn't it feel wrong to leave Hosea sitting in camp saying 'Hey Arthur!' for the majority of Chapter 2? I like to do his first mission right after saving Sean and having the party, and his second after Money Lending and Other Sins. Also, I hate not having access to my saddle and brushing my horse so getting the first mission outta the way ASAP is handy.

 

This is true as well.  That's a pretty big tutorial mission so should be done as early as possible, and I agree that it makes sense to do it after rescuing Sean.  A solution to this would be to have an early chapter 2 order looking something like this:

 

1. Polite Society, Valentine Style (Day 1)

2. Americans at Rest (Day 1 evening)

3. The First Shall Be Last (Day 2)

* Sean's Party *

4. Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego (Day 3)

 

The reality is that Rockstar did a really good job this time of letting you play in almost any order and having it still make sense story-wise.  There are a couple of exceptions throughout the game though.

Edited December 11, 2018 by roe

[Psycho18]

My chapter 2 missions start off like this: I like to keep a low profile in Valentine at the beginning.

1. Polite Society, Valentine Style: Arthur did say he wants to go into town and see what they can find out. Also, Arthur did tell the girls to keep a low profile.

2. Good Honest, Snake Oil: Bounty Hunting: This is the second mission because Dutch and camp need money and the Sheriff's dialogue.  The second bounty hunt comes after saving the reverend in the next mission. 

3. Who is Not Without Sin: The poker game Dialogue, it is the first time for me that I have to stop a witness from alerting the law, and the camp dialogue after his return.

4. America at Rest: The whole town watching Arthur fighting in the street.  Every time I ride into Valentine, one NPC will yell at Arthur for fighting.

5 The First Shall Be Last: This is the next big thing to save Sean, after the bar fight and clean yourself off. If you go back to camp, before this mission Dutch will sometimes yell at Arthur for not getting Sean back.

Sean's Party: everybody is happy and need a break.

6. Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego: The dialogue-- talk  about bar fight and Arthur might ask where is Micah and Lenny.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Psycho18

[jimmyoneshot]

3 hours ago, Brgrabs said:

@jimmyoneshot

 

Thanks for your detailed write up! In my experience it definitely makes sense to do Who is not Without Sin right before The First Shall be the Last, either on Day 2 or 3, in the morning. Arthur wakes up, does chores, has a bite to eat and realizes Swanson still isn't back in camp after inspecting his 'bible.'  After returning Swanson to camp you can speak to Dutch and he'll ask you to go save Sean (as long as you haven't initiated a conversation with him since completing Americans at Rest) at which point you ride to Blackwater and complete The First Shall be the Last.

 

Re: the Hosea missions: doesn't it feel wrong to leave Hosea sitting in camp saying 'Hey Arthur!' for the majority of Chapter 2? I like to do his first mission right after saving Sean and having the party, and his second after Money Lending and Other Sins. Also, I hate not having access to my saddle and brushing my horse so getting the first mission outta the way ASAP is handy.

You're welcome and thanks for you info in the thread too.

 

I know exactly what you mean Brgrabs and I too noticed that Dutch dialogue where he mentions saving Sean.

 

I have also noticed that after Seans party Dutch sometimes approaches you and says that he needs you to help Strauss with the money lending missions and this is the reason why I do those the next day after Sean's party. It seems to create a bit of a rollercoaster of emotion I think too because one day Arthur is having a party and the next he is brutally collecting debts. You could do the social call mission with Kieran but it doesn't seem like the gang members would be awake enough for that one yet. Especially Bill who is waaay too out of it to be as fresh as he is in the intro to that mission. So I do that one after the money lending missions/s.

 

Regarding Hosea my reason for leaving that until later is solely based on the dialogue that I mentioned i.e. Dutch tells Arthur that Hosea is handling the Cornwall Bonds at the start of A Quiet Time and then during Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego Arthur asks Hosea whether he has found a buyer for the Cornwall bonds yet:-

 

 

 

So I just avoid Hosea when I'm in camp. If it had been mentioned anywhere before this that Hosea was handling the bonds then I would do this mission earlier but as far as I can tell the start of A Quiet Time is the first time it's ever mentioned. If you know of it being mentioned earlier though please let me know because it's something I'm very interested in.

 

Plus I can't see Arthur going on a 2 day hunting trip until he has taken care of camp and personal business which would be :-

 

- Visiting Valentine and meeting the guys there - Polite Society and Americans At Rest

- Rescuing camp members - Who is Without Sin and First Shall Be Last

- Returning loan money which also allows the use of the ledger after it's done - Money Lending and Other Sins

- Dealing with any potential nearby O'Driscolls, and this is why Kieran is tied up after all - Paying a Social Call

- Visiting Mary (arguable because he could put this off but he said himself that he does seem to come running when she calls) - We Loved Once and True

 

After all of this A quiet Time would be available (We Loved Once and True is not required to unlock it) which would lead to Blessed are the meek and then I'd do Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego after that.

[jimmyoneshot]

3 hours ago, roe said:

 

Hosea says that "Swanson seems to have found something at Flatneck Station", but that doesn't mean he's there the whole time, nor do the boys have to be constantly stuck in Valentine.  This is one of those occasions where there's really no right or wrong way to do it.  At the start of chapter 2 you're told of a few "leads", and ultimately none of them are urgent.  I think you're right that 'Polite Society, Valentine Style' makes the most sense as a chapter starter, and 'Americans at Rest' is a natural follow up too.

 

From what I remember there are only a few missions in the whole chapter that need to be done as quick as possible:

 

'The First Shall Be Last' - Sean needs rescuing so it would make sense that this is done as something of a priority when it's available

'Paying a Social Call' - Kieran has been with the gang for over 2 weeks at this point, so again it makes sense that he needs to be involved in something pretty quickly.  The gang wouldn't just keep him tied up for too long

'Blessed are the Meek?' - similar to Sean's rescue, this one should be done somewhat urgently when available

 

The rest of the missions can be intertwined however really, with the only other note I'd add being that there should be at least a few day gap between 'Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego' and 'The Spines of America'.

 

This is true as well.  That's a pretty big tutorial mission so should be done as early as possible, and I agree that it makes sense to do it after rescuing Sean.  A solution to this would be to have an early chapter 2 order looking something like this:

 

1. Polite Society, Valentine Style (Day 1)

2. Americans at Rest (Day 1 evening)

3. The First Shall Be Last (Day 2)

* Sean's Party *

4. Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego (Day 3)

 

The reality is that Rockstar did a really good job this time of letting you play in almost any order and having it still make sense story-wise.  There are a couple of exceptions throughout the game though.

Very true. I suppose you could head canon it any way you want though. It just seems to me that they are 'meant' to be at those locations.

 

I have never had too much trouble between the Hosea missions because after I get back from the first one Grimshaw eventually gives me a note to go and meet Hosea. Apparently you have to enter camp after that mission then leave camp by at least 350 metres and then return to camp to trigger this so I do the Charles Hunting mission and the return which gives Hosea some time.

 

I know what you mean about that being a good early tutorial but my reason for leaving Exit Pursued by a Bruised ego until later is solely based on the dialogue that I mentioned where Dutch tells Arthur that Hosea is handling the Cornwall Bonds at the start of A Quiet Time and then during Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego Arthur asks Hosea whether he has found a buyer for the Cornwall bonds yet. I posted the videos above in my last post. If you know of any time before this though where it is mentioned that Hosea is handling the Cornwall bonds please let me know.

[roe]

14 hours ago, Psycho18 said:

2. Good Honest, Snake Oil: Bounty Hunting: This is the second mission because Dutch and camp need money and the Sheriff's dialogue.  The second bounty hunt comes after saving the reverend in the next mission.

 

This is a fair shout and it's actually how I played it the first time round myself.  After 'Polite Society..', if you decide to give the guy's horse back, you're stuck in Valentine without one and the only way to get one is to walk all the way back to camp, reload a save so your horse spawns next to you, or steal one.  What I did in my initial playthrough was the bounty mission, in which I walked up into the woods to track the bounty.  He has a horse up there that you can have (since he won't need it), and then I used this horse for a decent portion of Chapter 2.

[Psycho18]

5 hours ago, roe said:

 

This is a fair shout and it's actually how I played it the first time round myself.  After 'Polite Society..', if you decide to give the guy's horse back, you're stuck in Valentine without one and the only way to get one is to walk all the way back to camp, reload a save so your horse spawns next to you, or steal one.  What I did in my initial playthrough was the bounty mission, in which I walked up into the woods to track the bounty.  He has a horse up there that you can have (since he won't need it), and then I used this horse for a decent portion of Chapter 2.

Thanks, for the reply. During "Polite Society", Arthur tells the girls to keep a low profile and not get yourself notice. In a new town, in my game, I want to gain enough honor before I start to lose honor. So, helping folks (such as returning horses) to gain honor is preferable at the beginning of chapter 2. My honor wasn't high enough to start stealing horses. It is very easy to reload a save to get my horse back. So, I can start the bounty hunting missions. I want to be on the same side of the law before I start robbing, fighting, or killing in a town.

[Brgrabs]

I am really hung up on NPC dialogue right now going through Chapter 2. I love how random camp encounters are but I hate that I feel like I'm always missing out on camp conversations. For example, if I ride into camp and someone approaches me and starts a conversation (Grimshaw, Swanson etc) I sometimes miss out on another interaction two NPCs are having and I have no idea if I'll be able to see it again later.  For example, Karen and Marybeth have a unique interaction with Kieran while he's still tied to the tree, and I missed it last time because Dutch walked up to me and started talking before I could make it to the girls and Kieran.  Does anyone know if random camp dialogue repeats itself if you miss it the first time??

[jimmyoneshot]

On 12/14/2018 at 1:46 AM, Brgrabs said:

I am really hung up on NPC dialogue right now going through Chapter 2. I love how random camp encounters are but I hate that I feel like I'm always missing out on camp conversations. For example, if I ride into camp and someone approaches me and starts a conversation (Grimshaw, Swanson etc) I sometimes miss out on another interaction two NPCs are having and I have no idea if I'll be able to see it again later.  For example, Karen and Marybeth have a unique interaction with Kieran while he's still tied to the tree, and I missed it last time because Dutch walked up to me and started talking before I could make it to the girls and Kieran.  Does anyone know if random camp dialogue repeats itself if you miss it the first time??

I completely know what you mean and I feel like a lot of these conversations are meant to be background conversations i.e. Arthur isn't meant to be involved in all of them and they are just there for show.

 

I'm pretty sure I've seen a couple of dialogues play out and never get played again for example the one where Uncle is reading a newspaper an talking about the philippines. I have heard him say that once and I spoke to him about it afterwards and I'm pretty sure he's never said it again although this may be because I spoke to him about it after he said it. They MAY repeat until Arthur speaks to the npc in question about what they have just said/done or something like that but I'm not sure.

[Brgrabs]

On 12/5/2018 at 5:42 PM, roe said:

 

From my experience, there's a few bits of dialogue that repeat for each character per chapter and there's also a few bits for each one that are time sensitive.  These are usually bits that relate to recent missions and other happenings, but not always.  I don't think it's possible to hear all the camp interactions because a lot will change depending on which order you do certain missions, but perhaps we can sort out a best case scenario here.  I've found that as long as you make an effort to spend time at camps and talk to the gang when you can, it helps flesh out the story/world even if it's just a little.

 

 

Obviously it's the easiest to do by far, but I'm happy with my Chapter I Chronological Order now:

 

1. Outlaws from the West

2. Enter, Pursued by a Memory

- Camp Time (1) -

3. (B) Old Friends

- Camp Time (2) -

4. (P) The Aftermath of Genesis
 

5. Who the Hell is Leviticus Cornwall?

6. Eastward Bound

 

Camp time is used to speak to whichever members of the gang are around at camp at the time.  Chapter I takes place in early May, and each line gap indicates that a day has passed between activities.

 

I'll try to get working on Chapter II soon and see what kind of order I think suits best, including camp conversations, parties, free time & stranger missions.

Have you had any luck putting something similar to this together for Chapter 2??

[jimmyoneshot]

Here's my revised and pretty much final list for Chapter 2. I haven't included the stranger missions, secondary bounty missions etc to simplify it:-

1. Polite Society, Valentine Style
2. Americans at Rest
3. Who is Not Without Sin
4. The First Shall be The Last
5. Money Lending and Other Sins I, II and III
6. Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego
7. Spines of America
8. Paying a Social Call
9. Good Honest Snake Oil
10. We Loved Once and True I, II and III
11. A Quiet Time
12. Blessed Are The Meek
13. Pouring Forth Oil I, II and III
14. A Fisher Of Men
15. Pouring Forth Oil IV
16. An American Pastoral Scene
17. The Sheep and The Goats
18. A Strange Kindness

Here are my reasons/justifications for this order:-

 

- You could do 'Who is Not Without Sin' first however I've noticed that during/when you complete this mission time fast forwards to and pauses at 5pm until you rescue Swanson from the train, even if you go there at 7am and skip the poker game. This means that by the time you drop off Swanson back at camp and get to Valentine it will be night and when you have the fight with Tommy in Valentine it is pretty clearly meant to be day because the saloon is nowhere near as buzzing as it is at night during 'A Quiet Time' and the street is packed with people going about their daily business during the fight with Tommy. You could sleep at camp after dropping off Swanson and go the next day but this means that the gang have been waiting in the saloon overnight which seems silly.

 

- Plus another thing I noticed is that during the fight in 'Who is Not Without Sin' there is no tutorial on how to fight the guy whereas there is in the fight during 'Americans At Rest' meaning that mission was likely meant to be the intro to fighting with 'Who is Not Without Sin' following it.

 

- This means that 'Polite Society, Valentine Style' should be done first as the dialogue seems to suggest that this is an intro to the nearby town of Valentine and buying stuff from stores etc

 

- It makes sense to do 'Americans At Rest' next as it is just around the corner when you finish the first mission

 

- At this point you likely won't have a horse so I usually walk to camp and sleep overnight. This means that you are leaving Javier and Charles waiting but when you finally get to them you will see they have a tent with some used beds in it meaning they have been there for a while anyway. Plus in some dialogue that you can choose to ask to Hosea if you do 'Exit Purused By A Bruised Ego' at this point Arthur says that they are "Scouting Blackwater" and that he should catch up with them soon meaning they could be left to camp there for a while no problem

 

- You could do 'Who is Not Without Sin' after 'The First Shall Be The Last' however the problem with this is that Swanson is AT SEAN'S PARTY which means he must've been brought back to camp before that mission. I have tried doing this mission on the way back from rescuing Sean but doing that causes Sean's party to simply not happen at all which is likely not canon. So I do that next before rescuing Sean the next day

 

- When you wake up the day after Sean's party if you hang around camp for a bit Dutch says to Arthur that he needs him to help out Strauss with his money lending which means this is likely meant to be next

 

- Another reason is that you need the money from this mission to be able to afford the American Standardbred horse in 'Exit Pursued by A Bruised'. You can buy the Morgan horse but Hosea basically laughs at you if you do and you'll notice that in the cutscene after you buy it the horse shrinks. It's like as though Arthur is meant to be sitting on one of the normal horses and then when the cutscene ends he shrinks down to a Morgan sized one. Hard to explain but if you try it you'll see what I mean. The cutscene is fine as long as you buy the standardbred at least

 

- Also during 'Spines of America' when at Emerald Ranch Hosea tells Arthur to lead the way and says that Arthur is the one who's been "gallivanting around here". He says this no matter what but the only time Arthur would've been to emerald ranch in a gang related story mission is during 'Money Lending and Other Sins' which means this must've been done before this mission and 'Exit Pursued by A Bruised' because that leads right into this mission

 

- It seems that 'Money Lending an Other Sins I, II and III' should all be done consecutively too because when Arthur gets back to camp after Part 2 Strauss approaches him and asks him how he got on and gives him the next part at which point Arthur walks away as if he's going to do it right now

 

- Originally I thought 'Paying a Social Call' should be done next but one thing I noticed is that when that mission starts Arthur's horse is hitched in the hitching spot where Hosea's big Shire horse normally is. The only reason this horse would no longer be there is if the mission 'Exit Pursued by A Bruised' was already done which seems to be what this suggests which is partly why I do that next

 

- Another reason is that after you do 'Paying A Social Call', this triggers Arthur getting the letter from Mary which he would likely address right away and during that mission ('We Loved Once and True') Mary says that Jamie is "somewhere near Carmody Dell" and Arthur knows where this is. The only time he would've been to Carmody Dell in the main story is during 'Spines of America' as that is where most of it takes place. So this suggests that Hosea's 2 missions should come before Paying A Social Call

 

- After doing 'Paying A Social Call' you head right back through Valentine to camp so this is a great time to explore the town and do 'Good Honest Snake Oil' because all of Arthur's main priorities have been done at this point

 

- By the time you get back to camp it you will have the letter from Mary so her mission gets done next

 

- Doing 'Blessed Are The Meek' straight after 'A Quiet Time' is obvious because Micah is about to be hanged plus Arthur seems to speak to Dutch every day, who is the person that starts this mission thread

 

- Pouring Forth Oil I, II and III next because some time needs to pass before 'An American Pastoral Scene' unlocks so they are the only mission/s available at this point

 

- A 'Fisher of Men' MUST be done BEFORE 'Pouring Forth Oil IV' because at the end of that mission Arthur talks about how the Pinkertons found him when he was fishing with Jack which wouldn't make sense if he hadn't done this yet

 

- 'The Sheep and The Goats' needs some time to unlock so it's best to do 'An American Pastoral Scene' next before it

 

- The rest is obvious

 

*NOTE - I always noticed that During 'Exit Pursued by a bruised ego' Arthur asks Hosea has he managed to offload the cornwall bonds yet. I originally thought this was meant to mean that this mission comes after 'A Quiet Time', at the start of which Arthur asks Dutch if they've sold the bonds and Dutch says "not yet. But Hosea's working on it" but the way Dutch says it is like as though Hosea is STILL working on it rather than this being the first time he lets Arthur know that Hosea is the one selling them. It is more likely that Arthur knows that Hosea would be the one handling the bonds to begin with as that's his area of expertise plus he's Dutch's right hand man so asks him about it. Plus it would also be a hell of a long time to leave Hosea sitting there in camp especially for a mission which acts as a basic hunting, camping and horse tutorial.

[Brgrabs]

@jimmyoneshot

 

You sir, are a hero! Thanks for this!

[Psycho18]

52 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Here's my revised and pretty much final list for Chapter 2. I haven't included the stranger missions, secondary bounty missions etc to simplify it:-

1. Polite Society, Valentine Style
2. Americans at Rest
3. Who is Not Without Sin
4. The First Shall be The Last
5. Money Lending and Other Sins I, II and III
6. Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego
7. Spines of America
8. Paying a Social Call
9. Good Honest Snake Oil
10. We Loved Once and True I, II and III
11. A Quiet Time
12. Blessed Are The Meek
13. Pouring Forth Oil I, II and III
14. A Fisher Of Men
15. Pouring Forth Oil IV
16. An American Pastoral Scene
17. The Sheep and The Goats
18. A Strange Kindness

Here are my reasons/justifications for this order:-

 

- You could do 'Who is Not Without Sin' first however I've noticed that during/when you complete this mission time fast forwards to and pauses at 5pm until you rescue Swanson from the train, even if you go there at 7am and skip the poker game. This means that by the time you drop off Swanson back at camp and get to Valentine it will be night and when you have the fight with Tommy in Valentine it is pretty clearly meant to be day because the saloon is nowhere near as buzzing as it is at night during 'A Quiet Time' and the street is packed with people going about their daily business during the fight with Tommy. You could sleep at camp after dropping off Swanson and go the next day but this means that the gang have been waiting in the saloon overnight which seems silly.

 

- Plus another thing I noticed is that during the fight in 'Who is Not Without Sin' there is no tutorial on how to fight the guy whereas there is in the fight during 'Americans At Rest' meaning that mission was likely meant to be the intro to fighting with 'Who is Not Without Sin' following it.

 

- This means that 'Polite Society, Valentine Style' should be done first as the dialogue seems to suggest that this is an intro to the nearby town of Valentine and buying stuff from stores etc

 

- It makes sense to do 'Americans At Rest' next as it is just around the corner when you finish the first mission

 

- At this point you likely won't have a horse so I usually walk to camp and sleep overnight. This means that you are leaving Javier and Charles waiting but when you finally get to them you will see they have a tent with some used beds in it meaning they have been there for a while anyway. Plus in some dialogue that you can choose to ask to Hosea if you do 'Exit Purused By A Bruised Ego' at this point Arthur says that they are "Scouting Blackwater" and that he should catch up with them soon meaning they could be left to camp there for a while no problem

 

- You could do 'Who is Not Without Sin' after 'The First Shall Be The Last' however the problem with this is that Swanson is AT SEAN'S PARTY which means he must've been brought back to camp before that mission. I have tried doing this mission on the way back from rescuing Sean but doing that causes Sean's party to simply not happen at all which is likely not canon. So I do that next before rescuing Sean the next day

 

- When you wake up the day after Sean's party if you hang around camp for a bit Dutch says to Arthur that he needs him to help out Strauss with his money lending which means this is likely meant to be next

 

- Another reason is that you need the money from this mission to be able to afford the American Standardbred horse in 'Exit Pursued by A Bruised'. You can buy the Morgan horse but Hosea basically laughs at you if you do and you'll notice that in the cutscene after you buy it the horse shrinks. It's like as though Arthur is meant to be sitting on one of the normal horses and then when the cutscene ends he shrinks down to a Morgan sized one. Hard to explain but if you try it you'll see what I mean. The cutscene is fine as long as you buy the standardbred at least

 

- Also during 'Spines of America' when at Emerald Ranch Hosea tells Arthur to lead the way and says that Arthur is the one who's been "gallivanting around here". He says this no matter what but the only time Arthur would've been to emerald ranch in a gang related story mission is during 'Money Lending and Other Sins' which means this must've been done before this mission and 'Exit Pursued by A Bruised' because that leads right into this mission

 

- It seems that 'Money Lending an Other Sins I, II and III' should all be done consecutively too because when Arthur gets back to camp after Part 2 Strauss approaches him and asks him how he got on and gives him the next part at which point Arthur walks away as if he's going to do it right now

 

- Originally I thought 'Paying a Social Call' should be done next but one thing I noticed is that when that mission starts Arthur's horse is hitched in the hitching spot where Hosea's big Shire horse normally is. The only reason this horse would no longer be there is if the mission 'Exit Pursued by A Bruised' was already done which seems to be what this suggests which is partly why I do that next

 

- Another reason is that after you do 'Paying A Social Call', this triggers Arthur getting the letter from Mary which he would likely address right away and during that mission ('We Loved Once and True') Mary says that Jamie is "somewhere near Carmody Dell" and Arthur knows where this is. The only time he would've been to Carmody Dell in the main story is during 'Spines of America' as that is where most of it takes place. So this suggests that Hosea's 2 missions should come before Paying A Social Call

 

- After doing 'Paying A Social Call' you head right back through Valentine to camp so this is a great time to explore the town and do 'Good Honest Snake Oil' because all of Arthur's main priorities have been done at this point

 

- By the time you get back to camp it you will have the letter from Mary so her mission gets done next

 

- Doing 'Blessed Are The Meek' straight after 'A Quiet Time' is obvious because Micah is about to be hanged plus Arthur seems to speak to Dutch every day, who is the person that starts this mission thread

 

- Pouring Forth Oil I, II and III next because some time needs to pass before 'An American Pastoral Scene' unlocks so they are the only mission/s available at this point

 

- A 'Fisher of Men' MUST be done BEFORE 'Pouring Forth Oil IV' because at the end of that mission Arthur talks about how the Pinkertons found him when he was fishing with Jack which wouldn't make sense if he hadn't done this yet

 

- 'The Sheep and The Goats' needs some time to unlock so it's best to do 'An American Pastoral Scene' next before it

 

- The rest is obvious

 

*NOTE - I always noticed that During 'Exit Pursued by a bruised ego' Arthur asks Hosea has he managed to offload the cornwall bonds yet. I originally thought this was meant to mean that this mission comes after 'A Quiet Time', at the start of which Arthur asks Dutch if they've sold the bonds and Dutch says "not yet. But Hosea's working on it" but the way Dutch says it is like as though Hosea is STILL working on it rather than this being the first time he lets Arthur know that Hosea is the one selling them. It is more likely that Arthur knows that Hosea would be the one handling the bonds to begin with as that's his area of expertise plus he's Dutch's right hand man so asks him about it. Plus it would also be a hell of a long time to leave Hosea sitting there in camp especially for a mission which acts as a basic hunting, camping and horse tutorial.

I like your final list for chapter 2. I still disagree with you about a few missions, because of some missions dialogue. For an example, "Good, Honest Snake Oil", should be the next mission after entering Valentine. Sheriff's dialogue in the first bounty hunting will explain the town and the dialogue gave me the sense of Arthur not in any trouble with the law yet. I have to agree, about "American at Rest" and Reverend Swanson mission being back to back because after you return Swanson to the camp. If you hang out at camp, for a day or two,  Dutch will say to Arthur, " Why you not getting Sean back".  "Exit Pursued by a bruised ego", can be placed after Sean's party, but not too far from the party. The Hosea mission is the tutorial for the stables, hunting, crafting, and camping. The Dialogue is about the bar fight, bonds, Sean is being back, and Arthur can ask where are Micah and Lenny.  "Paying a Social Call" is next because it will give enough time for Hosea to get to Emerald Ranch. "Spines of America", the dialogue gave me the sense that Arthur never been to Emerald Ranch before this mission. Arthur might ask a question about Emerald Ranch and Hosea will give some details ( Store, saloon, daughter, father, and money etc) about this place.  If you read Arthur's Journal after this mission, Arthur will mention that they went robbing at an odd place (?) called Emerald Ranch. "Money Lending and other Sins" this can be next because Arthur knows a little about Emerald Ranch. We know these people have money, because of what Hosea said in the last mission, and borrowing money from Strauss. I like to go see Mary next, because "A Quiet Time" and saving Micah should be back to back. "A Fisher of Men" should be after "Pouring Forth Oil", because the Pinkertons will show up after they get word about too much noise coming from New Hanover. You got shootouts SW of Riggs Station (Sean mission), Shootouts at six point cabin (Kairan mission), Shootout in Strawberry (Micah mission) and Shootout all over  New Hanover (John mission). I agree with the last three missions on your list. 

[jimmyoneshot]

37 minutes ago, Psycho18 said:

I like your final list for chapter 2. I still disagree with you about a few missions, because of some missions dialogue. For an example, "Good, Honest Snake Oil", should be the next mission after entering Valentine. Sheriff's dialogue in the first bounty hunting will explain the town and the dialogue gave me the sense of Arthur not in any trouble with the law yet. I have to agree, about "American at Rest" and Reverend Swanson mission being back to back because after you return Swanson to the camp. If you hang out at camp, for a day or two,  Dutch will say to Arthur, " Why you not getting Sean back".  "Exit Pursued by a bruised ego", can be placed after Sean's party, but not too far from the party. The Hosea mission is the tutorial for the stables, hunting, crafting, and camping. The Dialogue is about the bar fight, bonds, Sean is being back, and Arthur can ask where are Micah and Lenny.  "Paying a Social Call" is next because it will give enough time for Hosea to get to Emerald Ranch. "Spines of America", the dialogue gave me the sense that Arthur never been to Emerald Ranch before this mission. Arthur might ask a question about Emerald Ranch and Hosea will give some details ( Store, saloon, daughter, father, and money etc) about this place.  If you read Arthur's Journal after this mission, Arthur will mention that they went robbing at an odd place (?) called Emerald Ranch. "Money Lending and other Sins" this can be next because Arthur knows a little about Emerald Ranch. We know these people have money, because of what Hosea said in the last mission, and borrowing money from Strauss. I like to go see Mary next, because "A Quiet Time" and saving Micah should be back to back. "A Fisher of Men" should be after "Pouring Forth Oil", because the Pinkertons will show up after they get word about too much noise coming from New Hanover. You got shootouts SW of Riggs Station (Sean mission), Shootouts at six point cabin (Kairan mission), Shootout in Strawberry (Micah mission) and Shootout all over  New Hanover (John mission). I agree with the last three missions on your list. 

Thanks Psycho. I know I said it was my final list but even today just now, replaying chapter 2 for the 100th time I am noticing problems with my list.

 

Regarding your points and my own problems that I'm thinking of at the moment:-

 

- My issues with doing 'Good Honest Snake Oil' straight after 'Polite Society Valentine Style' are:-

1. You won't have a horse so will have to walk there. You could whistle for your horse to follow you when you set off from camp during Polite Society in the wagon but it seems silly because the horse is hitched in camp and gets in the way and there is little time to tell it to stay when you get off the wagon so it ends up walking up the steps to the shop after you when you go in there with uncle sometimes. Plus if Arthur brought his horse he wouldn't need to borrow the strangers one to chase Jimmy Brooks like he does at the end of this mission. I just have issues with him bringing his horse at all on this mission as it seems like you were not meant to bring it.
2. With or without a horse it would very likely be night by the time you finish Good Honest Snake Oil and that would mean you would have to do Americans At Rest at night and as I said earlier it is much more suited for the daytime. And if you rest overnight that means the gang will have been standing around in the Saloon overnight
3. It seems like a secondary mission whereas meeting the gang in valentine, seeing what swanson has found at the train station and helping strauss out were the first orders of business that Hosea gave you so I doubt Arthur would overlook those things especially when the Saloon is closer too

- The Sheriff just acts like this is the first time he's met you if you ask me. In his dialogue he is just telling you that the town has a problem with criminals because it is a livestock town. Plus if you follow the list above Arthur won't have caused any trouble that the Sheriff would know or care about yet besides the fight in the Saloon which happens all the time. And even if he did know about that he also says "you don't catch a saint to catch a sinner" which suggests he thinks Arthur looks like an outlaw/knows about stuff Arthur has done but is looking the other way.

 

- You're right Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego can be done right after Sean's party. The main reason I think the Money Lending Missions should be done straight after the party is the fact that if you hang around camp long enough after the party Dutch approaches you and tells you he needs you to do them. Plus they were one of the first orders of business that Hosea told you about so I doubted Arthur would go on a 2 day hunting trip and leave this hanging. And if you do skip them, realistically Arthur has gone on a hunting trip without doing any missions that will officially bring in money to the camp - bounty mission money goes straight to Arthur whereas in main missions the money gets split between Arthur and the camp automatically.

 

- My main problem with doing Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego early though is that Arthur won't have enough money to buy a proper horse during it unless he does other missions first such as Paying A Social Call. For example I followed the list I made above just now as a test and didn't have enough money to buy the standardbred horse even after doing the Money Lending And Other Sins missions which means I may need to revise it

 

- Another thing I have just noticed is that during Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego when you and Hosea are riding out he says "So how are things with you and John?" and Arthur replies "Fine" and I'm thinking this means that Paying A Social Call may be before this mission because this is the only time you officially interact with John in this chapter besides pouring forth oil and the later missions. But then there is a problem with doing Paying A Social Call first because doing that causes the letter from Mary to appear next to Arthur's bed in camp which he likely wouldn't overlook and would make his priority because Mary means so much to him and again I doubt he'd go on a hunting trip before seeing Mary. However if you do the Mary mission before Spines of America Arthur knows where Carmody Dell is which he could have only found out in Spines of America.

 

So confusing. I suppose Arthur could just sleep in Valentine after Paying a Social Call and then meet Hosea when he gets back to camp. Or he could read the letter now and see Mary after the hunting trip but wouldn't he mention Mary to Hosea in that case?

 

- I'm 100% certain though that Pouring forth oil part 4 should be done after A Fisher of Men. Quite literally it is meant to be after it. If you watch the cutscene after Pouring Forth Oil part 4 Arthur says about the Pinkertons "they found me already near horseshoe":-

 

 

He is talking about this:-

 

 

2 hours ago, Brgrabs said:

@jimmyoneshot

 

You sir, are a hero! Thanks for this!

Thanks Brgrabs.

 

I know I said it was final but I'm still amending it right now so I'll keep you posted

@Psycho18

 

Oh also that is very interesting what you said about the journal and Emerald ranch. I am going to look into that now

[Brgrabs]

@jimmyoneshot

 

Have you figured out a best way to waste as little time as possible during an in-game day re: missions. What I mean is, some missions finish at a specific time no matter what.

 

For example, you can start Polite Society: Valentine Style as late as 6:50PM and when you finish it will only be around 7:30PM.  This gives you all of Day 1 to hunt some meat (I like killing the cougar close to the Brush Fire by Horseshoe Overlook for an early Perfect Cougar Pelt and x4 Big Game meat), pick some thyme/oregano, and do the first encounter with Thomas Downes and the father and sons building their house near Valentine, before returning back to camp around 3:30... now, in the past I've done Americans at Rest directly after returning the horse from the previous mission, and it finishes around 10:30PM.  I am considering postponing it for Day 2, however, since you mentioned that it seems it should be done during the day.  If I wait until Day 2 there is also an extra interaction between Arthur and Kieran where Kieran asks if Arthur has sent a ransom letter yet, and Arthur calls him delusional. As soon as Americans at Rest is completed Kieran has no new interactions until you finish Paying a Social Call.  

 

Also, I have noticed the same thing re: Who is not Without Sin, in that it always finishes around 5:30. This means that I typically start it around 4:30PM on Day 2, giving me the whole day to hunt and gather herbs.  I suppose if I change my mission order to save Americans at Rest for Day 2 (so I can get the extra interaction with Kieran), I'll do Americans at Rest in the morning and Who is not Without Sin in the afternoon, followed by The First Shall be the Last on Day 3 (I've noticed this mission finishes around 6PM typically). 

 

Sorry for the long post, but my main question is: do you have a set time and day for effectively completing missions based off when certain missions finish?  As we've established many if not all missions will always end at a certain time, and I like to try to maintain Perfect weight so I need to hunt quite a bit while also getting in lots of camp interactions and extra dialogue. 

 

[jimmyoneshot]

25 minutes ago, Brgrabs said:

@jimmyoneshot

 

Have you figured out a best way to waste as little time as possible during an in-game day re: missions. What I mean is, some missions finish at a specific time no matter what.

 

For example, you can start Polite Society: Valentine Style as late as 6:50PM and when you finish it will only be around 7:30PM.  This gives you all of Day 1 to hunt some meat (I like killing the cougar close to the Brush Fire by Horseshoe Overlook for an early Perfect Cougar Pelt and x4 Big Game meat), pick some thyme/oregano, and do the first encounter with Thomas Downes and the father and sons building their house near Valentine, before returning back to camp around 3:30... now, in the past I've done Americans at Rest directly after returning the horse from the previous mission, and it finishes around 10:30PM.  I am considering postponing it for Day 2, however, since you mentioned that it seems it should be done during the day.  If I wait until Day 2 there is also an extra interaction between Arthur and Kieran where Kieran asks if Arthur has sent a ransom letter yet, and Arthur calls him delusional. As soon as Americans at Rest is completed Kieran has no new interactions until you finish Paying a Social Call.  

  

Also, I have noticed the same thing re: Who is not Without Sin, in that it always finishes around 5:30. This means that I typically start it around 4:30PM on Day 2, giving me the whole day to hunt and gather herbs.  I suppose if I change my mission order to save Americans at Rest for Day 2 (so I can get the extra interaction with Kieran), I'll do Americans at Rest in the morning and Who is not Without Sin in the afternoon, followed by The First Shall be the Last on Day 3 (I've noticed this mission finishes around 6PM typically). 

  

Sorry for the long post, but my main question is: do you have a set time and day for effectively completing missions based off when certain missions finish?  As we've established many if not all missions will always end at a certain time, and I like to try to maintain Perfect weight so I need to hunt quite a bit while also getting in lots of camp interactions and extra dialogue. 

 

Personally I like to do Polite Society Valentine Style as soon as chapter 2 starts but after I have spoke to everyone once in camp and eaten some stew, had a shave and done all of the chores. I too noticed that time stops during this mission until after you and Uncle leave the store. It just seems like the camp is set up for this mission to take place first as an intro with uncle sleeping behind the wagon the way he is and this being the only available mission within a very short distance. It also seems best to do it before 6pm at the very latest for me because that is when stores usually close and Arthur and Uncle visit the store in this mission.

 

I had no idea about that ransom letter dialogue with Kieran though, that's interesting for sure. I don't get hung up too much about experiencing all dialogue though because it changes based on things you do. For example in Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego you can ask Hosea widely different questions based on whether you have or have not rescued Sean, have or have not rescued Micah etc etc. I think a lot of dialogue is put in there in case some players do things in a different way than they are usually done which is great in itself.

 

I also like to do Americans At Rest on the first day too though straight after this because as I said it doesn't seem right leaving the gang in the saloon overnight. There are certain misssions in the game where leaving someone there makes sense because they are at camp or have a tent or whatever but I don't feel like this is one of them.

 

I pretty much do what you do on the 2nd day, I hunt enough deer to complete the hunter challenge 1 and return them to Pearson and then it will be a bit later in the day when I get to Flatneck Station. I'm not bothered whether it's too early because the poker game would realistically take some tine too. I then complete the gambling challenge 1 there during the mission. On that note do you know how to get the Trapper dialogue from Pearson? I have spoken to him once and he told me the location of the Trapper which I think is great because otherwise how would Arthur know where the trapper is? I have never managed to get this dialogue from him since though no matter what I do.

 

I think First Shall Be Last just has time passing normally in my experience and just finishes whenever you finish it as I've checked the time and it's been different several times after I've finished it however I have noticed that if you try to start it at night time fast forwards to morning. I tried starting it at midnight once an it was suddenly 6am or something like that after the cutscene meaning it's meant to be a daytime mission.

 

Great to know that there are others who think as deeply about these things as me. I thought I was just sad ha.

 

Regarding perfect weight do you have a method for maintaining that as I'm failing miserably. I have tried eating 3 oatcakes and 2 tinned foods each day and that seemed to work for a while but then my weight strarted creeping down.

[jimmyoneshot]

@Psycho18 Looks like you are right. The journal says - "...stole a wagon, sold it to some rat Hosea met at some odd place called Emerald Ranch" and this was after I'd done the money lending missions which means this mission (Spines of America) IS likely the first time Arthur has been here. So when Hosea says that Arthur has been gallivanting he likely means in general around this state rather than around Emerald Ranch.

 

Problem with doing 'Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego' (which leads to this mission) before Money Lending and other sins is again having enough money for the standardbred horse. Even with the money lendig missio I couldn't afford it. So it seems to me that Paying a Social Call will have to go before that so that I have some money. Plus as stated above Hosea asks how John and Arrthur are getting on so it makes sense to do a mission with John just beforehand. Here's my new revised list:-

1. Polite Society, Valentine Style
2. Americans at Rest
3. Who is Not Without Sin
4. The First Shall be The Last
5. Paying a Social Call
6. Good Honest Snake Oil
7. Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego
8. Spines of America
9. Money Lending and Other Sins I, II and III
10. We Loved Once and True I, II and III
11. A Quiet Time
12. Blessed Are The Meek
13. Pouring Forth Oil I, II and III
14. A Fisher Of Men
15. Pouring Forth Oil IV
16. An American Pastoral Scene
17. The Sheep and The Goats
18. A Strange Kindness

[NikosUncle]

59 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

@Psycho18 Looks like you are right. The journal says - "...stole a wagon, sold it to some rat Hosea met at some odd place called Emerald Ranch" and this was after I'd done the money lending missions which means this mission (Spines of America) IS likely the first time Arthur has been here. So when Hosea says that Arthur has been gallivanting he likely means in general around this state rather than around Emerald Ranch.

 

Problem with doing 'Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego' (which leads to this mission) before Money Lending and other sins is again having enough money for the standardbred horse. Even with the money lendig missio I couldn't afford it. So it seems to me that Paying a Social Call will have to go before that so that I have some money. Plus as stated above Hosea asks how John and Arrthur are getting on so it makes sense to do a mission with John just beforehand. Here's my new revised list:-

1. Polite Society, Valentine Style
2. Americans at Rest
3. Who is Not Without Sin
4. The First Shall be The Last
5. Paying a Social Call
6. Good Honest Snake Oil
7. Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego
8. Spines of America
9. Money Lending and Other Sins I, II and III
10. We Loved Once and True I, II and III
11. A Quiet Time
12. Blessed Are The Meek
13. Pouring Forth Oil I, II and III
14. A Fisher Of Men
15. Pouring Forth Oil IV
16. An American Pastoral Scene
17. The Sheep and The Goats
18. A Strange Kindness

So I’m going to start a new game some time soon is this list for chapter 2 better to do than what’s in the OP?

[jimmyoneshot]

1 minute ago, NikosUncle said:

So I’m going to start a new game some time soon is this list for chapter 2 better to do than what’s in the OP?

I wouldn't claim it to be better or worse it's just how I think it should be done canonically based on dialogue, information and things that occur in the game.

 

The missions seem to be set up to be done in any order you please but there is a lot of evidence in game that suggests some missions should be done at either night or day and some missions should be done before others etc

 

e.g. - stuff that happens in A Fisher of Men is mentioned in the final cutscene of Pouring Forth Oil Part 4 which means A Fisher of Men should be done before that canonically.

 

 

[Brgrabs]

I would take @jimmyoneshot newest list that he just posted as canon, or at least as close to canon as you can get when it comes to this game. 

1 hour ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Regarding perfect weight do you have a method for maintaining that as I'm failing miserably. I have tried eating 3 oatcakes and 2 tinned foods each day and that seemed to work for a while but then my weight strarted creeping down.

Best thing I've found so far is to make sure you prioritize getting the cougar meat x4 from the random stranger interaction near the brush fire on Day 1. If you do that, and then eat stew + 1 big game meat + 2 venison every day between 6am-midnight you should be able to maintain Perfect weight.  You need to plan in advance when you'll go hunting though, as the 4 venison and 4 big game meat you have on Day 1 typically run out the day after Sean's party.  

[NikosUncle]

31 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

I wouldn't claim it to be better or worse it's just how I think it should be done canonically based on dialogue, information and things that occur in the game.

 

The missions seem to be set up to be done in any order you please but there is a lot of evidence in game that suggests some missions should be done at either night or day and some missions should be done before others etc

 

e.g. - stuff that happens in A Fisher of Men is mentioned in the final cutscene of Pouring Forth Oil Part 4 which means A Fisher of Men should be done before that canonically.

 

 

Ok cool do you plan to do your own chapter 3-6 or is OPs good enough?

[jimmyoneshot]

27 minutes ago, NikosUncle said:

Ok cool do you plan to do your own chapter 3-6 or is OPs good enough?

I plan on doing my own new ones pretty soon bud. Here is the rough version of Chapter 3 how I previously did it though if that helps you:-

 

Chapter 3

1. The New South
2. Further Questions of Female Suffrage
3. American Distillation
4. The Course of True Love I, II and III
5. Advertising The New American Art
6. The Joys of Tobacco
7. Horse Flesh For Dinner
8. Magicians For Sport
9. An Honest Mistake
10. Friends In Very Low Places
11. Preaching Forgiveness As He Went
12. Sodom Back To Gomorrah
13. Blessed Are The Peacemakers
14. A Short Walk In a Pretty Town
15. Blood Feuds Ancient and Modern
16. The Battle of Shady Belle

I have got some new ideas about the above though and I will be revising it very soon.

 

[Psycho18]

@jimmyoneshot,

You are making great points about chapter 2 that got me thinking. You are right, after polite society, valentine style you will be left without a horse in Valentine. That is why I like to save and reload my game to get my horse back. Then I return to the camp to tell Dutch what happened and talk to the girls and uncle. Next morning, I do the first bounty hunting. Every time I return to camp, I donate $5.00 and items, from bounties and chance encounters. You are right about going on a hunting trip before making real money for the camp, does not make sense to me after thinking about it. So, I am considering doing paying a social call before exit pursued, by a bruised ego so Arthur can make a little more money for the camp. During Exit Pursued, by a bruised ego, at the stables, I sell the black horse and buy the war horse (its free). When I get to chapter 3, I will buy a new horse with all the money I have gathered during chapter 2 ($2000). Now I have mix feelings about during A Fisher of Men before Pouring Forth Oil IV. I know the dialogue is very important for having a good narrative story,  but why go on the fishing trip before finishing a train robbery.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Psycho18

[Psycho18]

Revised chapter 2 missions list

1. Polite Society, Valentine Style: Noon wake up Uncle, Intro to the town of Valentine. Buy a newspaper, save and reload to get your horse back. Return camp talk to Dutch.

2. Good honest, snake oil: the next morning, I like the sheriff's dialogue.

3. American at Rest: Afternoon, I am already in Valentine, intro to fighting. Go get a bath, and hotel room. Innkeeper dialogue

4. Who is not without sin: the next day, intro to poker, fight, and stopping the 1st witness from alerting the law. Return to camp, talk to all before you drop him at his tent. 

5. The first shall be the last: The next morning, a long ride

6. Paying A Social Call: the next day after the party, dialogue and making a little more money for the camp.

7. Exit pursued by a bruised ego: Next day,  early in the morning,  intro to stables, hunting, crafting, camp, and the dialogue.                        

8. Spines of America: Next day in the afternoon, dialogue about Emerald Ranch, intro to coach robbery and house robbery.

9. Money Lending and other Sins 1-2: Emerald Ranch and Gutherie farms.  Return to camp place debts in the money box.

10. We loved Once and True I: Read the letter near the bed. The game will not let you sleep.

11. Money Lending and other sins 3: the next morning, the man is likely in the garden during the day.

12. We loved once and true 2-3: afternoon

13. Quiet Time: the saloon is busy in the evening

14. Blessed are the Meek: very important mission to before any else.  return to camp to talk to Dutch

15. Pouring forth Oil 1-3:  making more money

16. Fisher of men: dialogue and intro to fishing.

17. Pouring forth oil 4: dialogue from the last mission

18. An American Pastoral: next day

19. The sheep and the goats: morning or afternoon

20.  A strange kindness.

 

[jimmyoneshot]

21 hours ago, Psycho18 said:

@jimmyoneshot,

You are making great points about chapter 2 that got me thinking. You are right, after polite society, valentine style you will be left without a horse in Valentine. That is why I like to save and reload my game to get my horse back. Then I return to the camp to tell Dutch what happened and talk to the girls and uncle. Next morning, I do the first bounty hunting. Every time I return to camp, I donate $5.00 and items, from bounties and chance encounters. You are right about going on a hunting trip before making real money for the camp, does not make sense to me after thinking about it. So, I am considering doing paying a social call before exit pursued, by a bruised ego so Arthur can make a little more money for the camp. During Exit Pursued, by a bruised ego, at the stables, I sell the black horse and buy the war horse (its free). When I get to chapter 3, I will buy a new horse with all the money I have gathered during chapter 2 ($2000). Now I have mix feelings about during A Fisher of Men before Pouring Forth Oil IV. I know the dialogue is very important for having a good narrative story,  but why go on the fishing trip before finishing a train robbery.

Saving and reloading would work but I have strong issues with it because I love to play realistically and that just feels too 'gamey' to me to be honest. The whole no horse issue when I'm finished in Valentine is such a complication for me. I have thought of several different combinations of things and all of them either have issues or just feel wrong. I thought of:-

 

- Doing Americans At Rest First and then Polite Society Valentine Style later - but the problem is after Americas At Rest the saloon is all boarded up and closed down and the girls go into the saloon during that mission so it doesn't fit. Plus I'm certain Polite Society Valentine Style is MEANT to be the opening mission of chapter 2. The girls are all sitting in the position that they are in in the mission intro cutscene and everything

 

- Riding back to camp on the horse that Arthur 'borrows' and getting my own horse and going back to Valentine to do Americas At Rest - My issue with this is that Arthur did say that he was just borrowing the horse and the game tells you that you can return it for honor and it seems strange for Arthur to steal a horse in the middle of the town when he is meant to be laying low in town as the guy may report him and the others to the law

 

- Whistling my horse as I leave camp in the wagon - this just seems silly because why would Arthur even borrow the other guys horse if he had his own with him? Sure his one may be further away but he could just run to it. Again it just FEELS like you're not meant to have your horse in this mission

 

It's a shame because if there was a way of getting back to camp fast I could do Polite Society Valentine Style, Americans At Rest, get back to camp fast and still have time to do Who is Not Without Sin (during which time stops at 5pm) all in one day and then rescue Sean the next. Seems like an oversight by Rockstar. They should have done a hitchhiking tutorial where Arthur hitches a ride an it drops him at camp or something.

 

At the moment what I usually do is walk back to camp, checking out the murder scene on the way and sleeping until morning. Then I hunt for a bit before going for Swanson.

 

I'm pretty sure now that Paying a Social Call is meant to be done after First Shall Be The Last (and Sean's party obviously). One thing I noticed is that during the party and when they wake up the next day the same outfits that John and Bill are wearing are the ones that they are wearing in Paying a Social Call so it fits. I think if you do it a day later or so John and/or Bill are wearing different outfits and then they magically change into their social call outfits once that mission starts which is silly. Check it out and you'll see what I mean. Plus John and Bill are drinking together at the party so it makes sense that Arthur would pick them 2 to come with him.

 

It is best to sleep until noon beforehand though because Bill is nowhere near awake for a few hours if you wake in the morning so the cutscene where he is widde awake and threatening Kieran with Dutch would make no sense. I usually stay awake for the full party until 5am (which fits because there are still events happening in the party til this time) and then sleep until noon at which point Bill will be up and about.

[cp1dell]

@jimmyoneshot Love the Chapter II list! Probably the best I’ve seen so far.

 

Concerning the issue with returning the horse - is it possible to ride it to camp and grab your main horse, and whistle for the temporary horse (the stolen one) to follow you back to the owner? If not, it’s not that big of a deal to steal it. Yeah Arthur is supposed to be “lying low,” but you also steal the horse to chase someone down. If you insist on returning the horse, I don’t see why everyone has an issue with simply stealing a horse outside of Valentine or something. And walking to the ridge for the first bounty, or all the way to camp seems incredibly tedious. We need to remember this isn’t some strict, linear game here. While it may make sense to go with the more merciful choices presented in the game - there is nothing wrong with committing crimes like stealing a horse, before Arthur’s road to redemption.

 

Concerning your Chapter III order, I definitely think “An Honest Mistake” should be early on in the chapter since dialogue in the mission suggests they haven’t been in Clemen’s Point very long. “The Course if True Love I-III” should also be done right away since that is Dutch’s first and only order in “The New South.” As well as the title “Further Questions of Female Suffrage” making sense in the context of “The Course of True Love III” being complete.

[jimmyoneshot]

4 hours ago, Psycho18 said:

Revised chapter 2 missions list

1. Polite Society, Valentine Style: Noon wake up Uncle, Intro to the town of Valentine. Buy a newspaper, save and reload to get your horse back. Return camp talk to Dutch.

2. Good honest, snake oil: the next morning, I like the sheriff's dialogue.

3. American at Rest: Afternoon, I am already in Valentine, intro to fighting. Go get a bath, and hotel room. Innkeeper dialogue

4. Who is not without sin: the next day, intro to poker, fight, and stopping the 1st witness from alerting the law. Return to camp, talk to all before you drop him at his tent. 

5. The first shall be the last: The next morning, a long ride

6. Paying A Social Call: the next day after the party, dialogue and making a little more money for the camp.

7. Exit pursued by a bruised ego: Next day,  early in the morning,  intro to stables, hunting, crafting, camp, and the dialogue.                        

8. Spines of America: Next day in the afternoon, dialogue about Emerald Ranch, intro to coach robbery and house robbery.

9. Money Lending and other Sins 1-2: Emerald Ranch and Gutherie farms.  Return to camp place debts in the money box.

10. We loved Once and True I: Read the letter near the bed. The game will not let you sleep.

11. Money Lending and other sins 3: the next morning, the man is likely in the garden during the day.

12. We loved once and true 2-3: afternoon

13. Quiet Time: the saloon is busy in the evening

14. Blessed are the Meek: very important mission to before any else.  return to camp to talk to Dutch

15. Pouring forth Oil 1-3:  making more money

16. Fisher of men: dialogue and intro to fishing.

17. Pouring forth oil 4: dialogue from the last mission

18. An American Pastoral: next day

19. The sheep and the goats: morning or afternoon

20.  A strange kindness.

 

 

 

 

We are about 95% on the same page bud.

 

The one that is confusing is Good Honest Snake Oil. I like doing it after Paying A Social Call on the way back past Valentine because, as I said before, I can't see it fitting in with the earlier missions above especially when you factor in the no horse issue because Arthur would have to walk to the canyon where the target is. I also actually think a good spot to do this is after We Loved Once and True Part 3 because you'll notice that Arthur's horse is hitched outside the sheriffs after the cutscene at the end of that mission. Plus Arthur has just been with Mary who brings out his good side so he would be in the mood for doing something honorable. The problem with that is there are 2 bounty missions at the Valentine station and A Quiet Time, where you get locked up in the station (Lenny talks about you getting locked up in chapter 3 whether you did or not so it's meant to have happened) is coming up so it wouldn't make sense for Arthur to get locked up and then do a bounty mission for the sheriff and him not even mention that Arthur was locked up. So instead I do the 2nd bounty mission after We Loved Once and True and the first one after Paying a Social Call to get them out the way before A Quiet Time.

 

*NOTE - I am currently checking to see if the Sheriff has any different reactions or dialogue than normal if you do the 2nd bounty mission at some point AFTER A Quiet Time. Hopefully he does.

 

I also noticed you spilt Money Lending 3 out after We Loved Once and True however I like to do all 3 parts on the same day and if you get up early in the morning you can get them all in and it will still be daytime when you get to Downes. It's usually 3pm - 4pm when I get there. I know what you mean about  that too because I always aim to visit him before night which wouldn't make sense.

 

I also think it's good to do Mary's mission after the Downes one because the Downes one shows Arthur's worst side and then the next day the best side of Arthur is brought out by Mary. Seems good story-wise as going crazy on Downes after an emotional meeting with Mary seems a bit off to me.

 

Here's my list at the moment with some more detail:-

1. Polite Society, Valentine Style
2. Americans at Rest
3. Walk back to camp an rest until morning. Do a hunting trip in the morning and donate to Pearson because the next mission pauses at 5pm
4. Who is Not Without Sin
5. The First Shall be The Last
6. Sean's party until 5am then sleep until noon
7. Paying a Social Call
8. Good Honest Snake Oil - ??? Still unsure on this one
9. Exit Pursued By A Bruised Ego
10. Grimshaw tells you Hosea is waiting for you at Emerald Ranch as soon as you get back to camp here so that is next
11. Spines of America
12. Money Lending and Other Sins I, II and III
13. I explore some of the shops in Valentine here and this is the first time I get a bath. It seems like Arthur would likely get a bath here because the next thing I do is go and see Mary
14. We Loved Once and True I, II and III
15. A Quiet Time
16. Blessed Are The Meek
17. Pouring Forth Oil I, II and III
18. Abigail approaches you here so it makes sense to do Fisher of Men next plus Pouring Forth Oil Part 4 takes some time to unlock too. Plus the dialogue in part 4 which proves this is meant to be done here
19. A Fisher Of Men
20. Pouring Forth Oil IV
21. An American Pastoral Scene
22. The Sheep and The Goats
23. A Strange Kindness

[NikosUncle]

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Edited December 30, 2018 by NikosUncle
My stupidity