RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 - "Chronological" Mission Order

[Dan_1983]

On 4/7/2023 at 4:51 PM, EpiceneBlue said:

Yeah, I know, the endless chapter two order debate. Now that I've figured out how to get the dialogue from Without Sin so I can do that mission first and not feel weird about it, I am still irritated because it is impossible to do Polite Society next without getting yelled at by Hosea first. I would actually be fine RP wise with doing Hosea's hunting mission next after Without Sin and before Polite Society - if you think of the boys being down in Valentine as just a mention of where they are for the day and not an urgent mission Arthur doesn't know about. BUT, if you do Hosea's mission second - which also lets you end up with a horse at the stable for Polite Society if you do it right - then Hosea will not be at Sean's party and you miss his dialogues for that - unless you also do Spines of America before America at Rest and that just doesn't vibe with me. Argghhh. 

Hosea is always at Sean's party. Even if you've done Exit and Spines is available, Hosea will still be at Sean's party, but will be gone once Arthur wakes up. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Dan_1983

[Smarty99]

Is it possible to start ‘American Dreams’ as Arthur and complete as John? As in find the three clues as Arthur but then track down and capture Edmund Lowry as John? It would make sense story wise as Arthur wouldn’t be welcome back in Valentine after all the trouble he caused and there is also a reference to the serial killer being on the loose ‘for years’ when handing him into the sheriff. Any other ideas of when this side quest could be factored into a chronological order?

[Gil217]

3 hours ago, Smarty99 said:

Is it possible to start ‘American Dreams’ as Arthur and complete as John? As in find the three clues as Arthur but then track down and capture Edmund Lowry as John? It would make sense story wise as Arthur wouldn’t be welcome back in Valentine after all the trouble he caused and there is also a reference to the serial killer being on the loose ‘for years’ when handing him into the sheriff. Any other ideas of when this side quest could be factored into a chronological order?

I do exactly that. I have Arthur find out the 3 murder locations, but I headcanon that Arthur never managed to follow up on that. Then, 8 years later, John finds out about it by reading Arthur's journal and inspecting the clues Arthur recovered. I like to assume John works it out with the rest of his family. Because of that, I always place it after The Best of Women (Abigail and Jack's return) and before American Venom, because I believe that John's motivation was the bounty on the serial killer, especially after so long. John was simply very lucky that the killer was still on the loose and still using the same hideout. Which I have no problem with, we can probably find similar cases in real life.

 

P.S. I thought about having Arthur find 2 of the murders and then John find the last one, but that is nonsensical to me because of the clues on the bodies. They have to take place around the same time to work. It would make no sense for John to find out the last murder location in 1907 with the clue that only works with the other 2 murders that took place 8 years ago. So Arthur finds the 3 murders and then John works out the location.

[EpiceneBlue]

17 hours ago, Dan_1983 said:

Hosea is always at Sean's party. Even if you've done Exit and Spines is available, Hosea will still be at Sean's party, but will be gone once Arthur wakes up. 

 

I went back to my save before Sean's party when I had done Exit before First Shall Be Last and Hosea was not at Sean's Party after. His mission icon was in Emerald Ranch while I was riding back from First Shall Be Last before the party and also after the party. Glitch maybe? Or maybe because Grimshaw caught me in camp and told me Hosea was at Emerald before I went to rescue Sean & I would have had to avoid her to prevent that happening & Hosea not being at the party. Hmmm. Anyway, doing Exit before Polite Society OR Americans at Rest seems to force skip the first possible encounter with Downes at the charity table where you can pick up the pamphlet. So bah. 

[Gil217]

So, after so long I finally created my chronological order for Red Dead Redemption 2. I want to thank everyone who participated and shared their orders because I got a lot of inspiration from you.

 

So some notes in order to better understand it. I included every main mission (obviously) and I also tried to put in every side quest that I could while still trying to have it make sense story wise. Missions that appear on the same line (for example: Americans at Rest / Who Is Not Without Sin) indicate that they happen on the same day. I know there are some days that seem to be stuffed with a lot to fit in in a day (this is especially directed at Chapter 4) but remember that some of those are simply cutscenes or something like that. For example, the biggest one is The Noblest of Men, and a Woman, Part III (Saint Denis) / Idealism and Pragmatism for Beginners (Letter) / The Artist's Way, Part III / A Bright Bouncing Boy / Idealism and Pragmatism for Beginners, Part I, where the 1st one is a cutscene, 2nd one is just picking up a letter, 3rd and 4th are quick side missions that Arthur does while waiting for nightfall to visit the Mayor and the last one just segues into the next day. Just putting this here in order for people to not be overwhelmed by it. It may seem much but when you actually do it it's perfectly paced and definitely works.

 

I also tried to order this in a way that it makes sense story wise but also location wise, like for example: Social Calls With Mr. MacGuire (Home Robbery with Sean) / He's British, of Course / Aberdeen Pig Farm Robbery, Part I. Mission with Sean ends right near the place where He's British, of Course starts, and the Aberdeen Pig Farm is right around there, so it just fits. It gives Arthur a reason to actually meet these people by passing by them, instead of us having Arthur go there because there's a mission marker there. This way makes it more genuine.

 

Chapter 1: Colter

   * Outlaws from the West
   * Enter, Pursued by a Memory
   * The Aftermath of Genesis
   * Old Friends
   * Who the Hell is Leviticus Cornwall?
   * Eastward Bound

 

Chapter 2: Horseshoe Overlook 

   * Americans at Rest / Who Is Not Without Sin
   * Smoking and Other Hobbies (Cutscene) / The First Shall Be Last / All That Glitters (Cutscene)
   * Polite Society, Valentine Style / The Noblest of Men, and a Woman, Part I / All That Glitters (Map)
   * Good, Honest, Snake Oil / A Test of Faith (Cutscene) / Emmet Granger
     * Rob a Homestead (Javier Escuella) / All That Glitters (Map) / Flaco Hernández
   * Money Lending and Other Sins, Parts I & II
   * Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego
   * Paying a Social Call
   * The Spines of America / Bounty Hunting (Ellie Anne Swan)
   * Hunting (Charles Smith) / A Quiet Time
   * Arcadia for Amateurs, Part I / Blessed Are the Meek?
   * We Loved Once and True, Part I / Money Lending and Other Sins, Part III
   * Pouring Forth Oil, Part I / We Loved Once and True, Parts II & III / Arcadia for Amateurs, Part II / Watson's Cabin Robbery
   * Pouring Forth Oil, Parts II (Skip) & III
   * A Fisher of Men / Pouring Forth Oil, Part IV
   * An American Pastoral Scene
   * The Sheep and the Goats
   * A Strange Kindness

 

Spoiler

Regarding the very beginning of Chapter 2, I have absolutely no problem putting Who Is Not Without Sin between Americans at Rest and The First Shall Be Last. After AaR, remember that the boys still need to go back to camp to get the supplies they need, like the tent and all, travel to Blackwater and scope the place out, so all that will actually take time. It makes no sense for Arthur to immediately go there. While they do that, I have Arthur take a bath at the hotel in Valentine and then ride back to camp, so I imagine by the time we arrive they have just departed. Arthur plans on going to sleep early in order to depart for Blackwater first thing in the morning but when he arrives he notices Swanson still hasn't returned, checks his drug paraphernalia and decides to check on him at Flatneck Station. He does it because he still has plenty of time, it's still afternoon and Arthur knows he needs to give the boys time to check things in Blackwater.

 

I wanted to do Arcadia for Amateurs, Part I early, around The First Shall Be Last, but it really is strange to do it there because of the coyote running around in the same place the shootout happens, so I put it when Arthur is riding to Strawberry to free Micah. I like it because it's quite on the way and it actually makes sense for Arthur to stop and talk to a stranger considering he's in no hurry to free Micah.

 

Absolutely love the sequence of Blessed Are the Meek? / We Loved Once and True, Part I / Money Lending and Other Sins, Part III, because it gives us an explanation on Arthur being really pissed off when he confronts Downes. He was already irritated by having to risk his life to save Micah, someone he doesn't like, then the whole thing gets worse when it turns into a bloody shootout with the whole town, then he returns and is greeted with a letter from the love of his life, which brings up all those feelings, most of them painful, and then he gets reminded by Strauss about a debt he needs to collect, something Arthur hates to do. It writes itself, just fantastic.

 

The reason why I do Arcadia for Amateurs, Part II / Watson's Cabin Robbery after We Loved Once and True, Part III is because I love the juxtaposition of Arthur going to commit a robbery after Mary's words to him at the train station. Arcadia is literally on the way to Watson's Cabin so it works there alright.

 

Chapter 3: Clemens Point

   * The New South
   * Further Questions of Female Suffrage
   * American Distillation
   * Fishing (Javier Escuella) / An Honest Mistake
   * The Course of True Love, Parts I & II / No Good Deed
   * The Course of True Love, Part III / Billy Midnight
     * Social Calls With Mr. MacGuire (Home Robbery with Sean) / He's British, of Course / Aberdeen Pig Farm Robbery, Part I
     * Fishing (Kieran Duffy) / The Iniquities of History
   * Advertising, the New American Art
   * The Fine Joys of Tobacco
   * Horse Flesh for Dinner
   * Preaching Forgiveness as He Went
   * Magicians for Sport / Money Lending and Other Sins, Part IV (Gwyn Hughes)
   * Sodom? Back to Gomorrah
   * Friends in Very Low Places
     * Coach Robbery (Bill Williamson) / Money Lending and Other Sins, Part IV (Winton Holmes) / A Fisher of Fish (Cutscene)
     * Coach Robbery (Sean MacGuire) / Arcadia for Amateurs, Part III / Aberdeen Pig Farm Robbery, Part II
   * Blessed Are the Peacemakers
   * A Short Walk in a Pretty Town
   * Blood Feuds, Ancient and Modern
   * The Battle of Shady Belle

 

Spoiler

Just realized that this one is pretty straightforward with no real need for much explanations. Anyway, on the third day when I do American Distillation, I headcanon that Arthur is actually on his way to the Gray's place to follow up on Dutch's orders from The New South but while passing through Rhodes he notices the gang's horses and goes to check it out, doing AD instead.

I do Billy Midnight after The Course of True Love, Part III because that mission takes us to the train station, so I like to think Arthur remembers reading Billy being sighted there often, so he goes to check.

I like to put Sodom between the 2 Trelawny missions because I like to give him more time to fully recuperate.

I split the Aberdeen robbery because I headcanon that Arthur goes there the first time to scope the place out , so he plays along, gets dumbfounded by them and then doesn't proceed with the robbery because he drinks once and gets quite sick. I have him not drink the second shot and leave. Come back latter to rob the place for good.

In Coach Robbery (Sean MacGuire) / Arcadia for Amateurs, Part III / Aberdeen Pig Farm Robbery, Part II, after the robbery with Sean ends, I have Arthur drive the wagon to sell it at Seamus, therefore giving Arthur a reason to get his 3rd encounter with Mason. I literally had no other place to put it, like I said before, I don't like just riding there because we (the player) know there's a mission there. So that's literally the excuse I found to make it work realistically.

 

Chapter 4: Shady Belle

   * The Joys of Civilization / The Artist's Way, Part I / Fundraiser
   * Angelo Bronte, a Man of Honor
   * Fatherhood and Other Dreams, Parts I & II / Help a Brother Out / The Mercies of Knowledge, Part I
   * No, No and Thrice, No / The Mercies of Knowledge, Part II / Go Rustling (Uncle)
     * The Mercies of Knowledge, Part III / The Artist's Way, Part II
     * Coach Robbery (Lenny Summers) / Money Lending and Other Sins, Part V (Algie Davison)
     * Hunting (Simon Pearson) / High and Low Finance (Rhodes Bank Robbery)
     * Arcadia for Amateurs, Part IV / Black Belle / The Mercies of Knowledge, Parts IV & V
   * The Gilded Cage
   * American Fathers, Part I / A Fine Night of Debauchery
     * The Noblest of Men, and a Woman, Part II (Valentine) / Oh Brother, Part I / Visit Sean's Grave / The Ties That Bind Us, Part I
     * The Noblest of Men, and a Woman, Part III (Saint Denis) / Idealism and Pragmatism for Beginners (Letter) / The Artist's Way, Part III / A Bright Bouncing Boy / Idealism and Pragmatism for Beginners, Part I
   * Coach Robbery (Micah Bell) / The Mercies of Knowledge, Part VI / Horsemen, Apocalypses
   * The Mercies of Knowledge, Part VII / Brothers and Sisters, One and All / Urban Pleasures
   * The Ties That Bind Us, Part II / American Fathers, Part II / Oh Brother, Part II
     * The Noblest of Men, and a Woman, Part IV / The Smell of the Grease Paint / Idealism and Pragmatism for Beginners, Part II
   * Country Pursuits
     * The Artist's Way, Part IV / The Smell of the Grease Paint (Saint Denis Show) / Idealism and Pragmatism for Beginners, Part III
   * Revenge Is a Dish Best Eaten
   * Banking, the Old American Art

 

Spoiler

So yeah, here we go. This is the chapter that is actually quite straightforward if you only take into account the main missions, but when you try to fit in the side ones it can become hellish to make it work. Main thing to do here is to try and fit in as much as you can before The Gilded Cage, the party at the Mayor's mansion where the gang gets their leads for future robberies. It makes sense because I like to believe that Arthur and the gang were doing some robberies here and there before they got their leads in Saint Denis. There's not much urgency so all of those fit well before the party.

 

I do The Artist's Way, Part I and Fundraiser on Day 1 because they're very quick and it serves to pass the time waiting for Dutch and John.

Read the letter from Mary and go there immediately fits Arthur. After that's done, I like to believe Arthur wandered reflectively around Saint Denis for a while, meeting Brother Dorkins and Andrew Bell for their respective side missions. Next day, after saving Tilly and being quite close to Rhodes, Arthur goes to the train station to ask Alden about the moonshine for Bell. 

On the day I do Arcadia for Amateurs, Part IV / Black Belle / The Mercies of Knowledge, Part IV & V, I headcanon that Arthur is on his way to Black Belle's house, but comes across Mason on the way there. After that's done, Arthur comes back through Saint Denis and checks out on Bell.

Having very recently visited all the gunslingers, Arthur goes to Valentine to meet with Levin and Calloway but gets told they're in Saint Denis. Meet the brothers while in Valentine and then go back south. On the way, Arthur visits Sean's grave, finally having the opportunity to do so (Never liked visiting it after A Short Walk in a Pretty Town because it always seemed to me to be too soon, like Bill didn't even have time to bury him). Then on the way from Sean's grave to Shady Belle Arthur comes across the two fugitives and helps them out.

After Horsemen, Apocalypses Dutch tells us to meet him at Saint Denis for the trolley robbery. Going there the next day, I headcanon that Arthur gets there early so he decides to take the time by watching the execution by electric chair, and then meets Brother Dorkins and Sister Calderón. He encounters Edith Downes and has to flee the police. I like to believe this is the reason why Arthur's late when he meets Dutch.

On the way to do American Fathers, Part II, Arthur meets the 2 fugitives again.

Visit Kieran's grave anytime considering it's close to Shady Belle.

I really like to do the Mayor's missions so I always include them. I dislike that they have me take Arthur to Saint Denis after the trolley robbery but they mostly take place at night so whatever. I actually kill Jean Marc because I like to believe Arthur panicked when the Mayor told him that Jean Marc would also expose Arthur and the gang. I headcanon that this mission taking place late in the chapter, therefore being so close to the bank job prompted Arthur to kill him out of fear Jean Marc could potentially ruin everything when they were so close to pull off the bank job and finally leave. I like to believe it's Arthur's last dishonorable act.

On the day that I receive the first letter and do the first mission from the Mayor, you can also do the Duchesses and other Animals cutscene to pass the time.

Oh yeah, I also finish the The Noblest of Men, and a Woman in this chapter because I really don't think it fits in Chapter 6. It feels out of place there for me. I never visit a region ahead of time, this being the only exception. Not to mention that it's a quick visit, it's not like Arthur stays for days in that region. It even fits well because Arthur seems to be aware of Annesburg in Icarus and Friends.

 

Chapter 5: Guarma

   * Welcome to the New World
   * Savagery Unleashed
   * A Kind and Benevolent Despot
   * Hell Hath No Fury
   * Paradise Mercifully Departed
   * Dear Uncle Tacitus
   * Fleeting Joy
   * Visit Hosea and Lenny's Grave / A Fork in the Road
   * Icarus and Friends
   * That’s Murfree Country

 

Spoiler

Pretty straightforward. Before going to Saint Denis for Sadie's mission, I visit Hosea and Lenny's grave. I'm pretty sure a lot of people explained already why it makes more sense to do A Fork in the Road/Icarus and Friends before That's Murfree Country so I will only mention that even the closing cutscene of a Fleeting Joy adds to that. It ends with Dutch who is clearly very tired going to rest, immediately followed up by Sadie telling Arthur to meet her in Saint Denis to find a way to save John.

 

Chapter 6: Beaver Hollow

   * Visiting Hours
   * Just a Social Call / The Widow of Willard’s Rest, Part I
   * A Rage Unleashed / The Wisdom of the Elders, Part I
   * Archeology for Beginners / The Veteran Part I
   * Honor, Amongst Thieves / All That Glitters (Treasure)
   * Of Men and Angels / Goodbye, Dear Friend
   * The Fine Art of Conversation
     * The Course of True Love, Part V / Arcadia for Amateurs, Part V / The Wisdom of the Elders, Part II
   * Favored Sons
   * The King’s Son
   * The Delights of Van Horn / The Widow of Willard’s Rest, Part II
   * The Bridge to Nowhere / The Veteran Part II
     * Money Lending and Other Sins, Parts VI & VII
     * Do Not Seek Absolution, Part I / The Veteran, Part III
     * The Wisdom of the Elders, Parts III, IV & V
   * Do Not Seek Absolution, Part II / Mrs. Sadie Adler, Widow, Parts I & II / The Ties That Bind Us, Part III / Oh Brother, Part III
   * The Widow of Willard’s Rest, Part III / My Last Boy
   * Our Best Selves
   * Red Dead Redemption

 

Spoiler

This one is also quite straightforward, I mostly took inspiration from jimmyoneshot so I don't have much to add here. There aren't many side missions here so we can fit them rather nicely anyway you want it. I actually have Arthur finish All That Glitters here because I headcanon that after finding out the two maps originally in Chapter 2 he got frustrated and assumed it was a scam. I assume he kept the maps, remembered that the third one was located somewhere close to Hamish's place, went there and found it. This also solves the "problem" of getting too much money from the gold bars so early in the game, so Arthur gets the 2 gold bars in Chapter 6 and keeps them for himself due to the situation with the gang, with me headcanoning that he plans to give them to John and Abigail.

I visit Marko Dragic when I visit Charlotte because it's close.

 

Epilogue — Part I: Pronghorn Ranch

   * The Wheel
   * Simple Pleasures
   * Fatherhood, for Beginners
   * Farming, for Beginners
   * Old Habits
   * Jim Milton Rides, Again?
   * Fatherhood, for Idiots
   * Motherhood
   * The Landowning Classes/Home of the Gentry?
   
Epilogue — Part II: Beecher's Hope

   * Gainful Employment

     * Bounty Hunting (Joshua Brown)
   * Bare Knuckle Friendships
     * Bounty Hunting (Bart Cavanaugh) / The American Inferno, Burnt Out, Part I
   * Home Improvement for Beginners
   * An Honest Day’s Labors
   * The Tool Box
   * A New Jerusalem
     * The American Inferno, Burnt Out, Part II / Bounty Hunting (Elias Green)
   * A Quick Favor for an Old Friend
     * Bounty Hunting (Otis Skinner)
   * Uncle's Bad Day
   * The Best of Women
   * A Really Big Bastard
     * The American Inferno, Burnt Out, Part III / Bounty Hunting (Herman Zizendorf)

   * Trying Again
     * American Dreams (Edmund Lowry Jr.) / Mary-Beth
     * Bounty Hunting (Mark Johnson) / Pearson

     * Bounty Hunting (Anthony Foreman) / Tilly Jackson
   * A New Future Imagined
     * The American Inferno, Burnt Out, Part IV
   * American Venom

 

Nothing to add here really, I just included quite a few bounties here and there because John has to pay his debts so I do it before American Venom. I do the two Skinner Brothers bounties shortly before Uncle's Bad Day in order to add some more justification for their actions. I finish the last part of The American Inferno, Burnt Out after finishing the story.

 

John's Pilgrimage (Paying Respects)

* Beecher's Hope
* Horseshoe Overlook Camp
* Sean's Grave / Clemens Point Camp
* Kieran's Grave / Shady Belle Camp
* Hosea and Lenny's Grave / Susan Grimshaw's Grave
* Rains Fall / Beaver Hollow Camp / Charlotte Balfour
* The Veteran, Part IV / Arthur Morgan's Grave / Eagle Flies' Grave
* Beecher's Hope

 

I apologize for the size of this post. It's a big game!

Edited April 13, 2023 by Gil217

[Dan_1983]

7 hours ago, EpiceneBlue said:

 

I went back to my save before Sean's party when I had done Exit before First Shall Be Last and Hosea was not at Sean's Party after. His mission icon was in Emerald Ranch while I was riding back from First Shall Be Last before the party and also after the party. Glitch maybe? Or maybe because Grimshaw caught me in camp and told me Hosea was at Emerald before I went to rescue Sean & I would have had to avoid her to prevent that happening & Hosea not being at the party. Hmmm. Anyway, doing Exit before Polite Society OR Americans at Rest seems to force skip the first possible encounter with Downes at the charity table where you can pick up the pamphlet. So bah. 

That's strange as he is usually there for me no matter what mission order I do.

[Smarty99]

15 hours ago, Gil217 said:

I do exactly that. I have Arthur find out the 3 murder locations, but I headcanon that Arthur never managed to follow up on that. Then, 8 years later, John finds out about it by reading Arthur's journal and inspecting the clues Arthur recovered. I like to assume John works it out with the rest of his family. Because of that, I always place it after The Best of Women (Abigail and Jack's return) and before American Venom, because I believe that John's motivation was the bounty on the serial killer, especially after so long. John was simply very lucky that the killer was still on the loose and still using the same hideout. Which I have no problem with, we can probably find similar cases in real life.

 

P.S. I thought about having Arthur find 2 of the murders and then John find the last one, but that is nonsensical to me because of the clues on the bodies. They have to take place around the same time to work. It would make no sense for John to find out the last murder location in 1907 with the clue that only works with the other 2 murders that took place 8 years ago. So Arthur finds the 3 murders and then John works out the location.

Thanks mate I’ll definitely do it this way from now on

[Smarty99]

11 hours ago, Gil217 said:

So, after so long I finally created my chronological order for Red Dead Redemption 2. I want to thank everyone who participated and shared their orders because I got a lot of inspiration from you.

 

So some notes in order to better understand it. I included every main mission (obviously) and I also tried to put in every side quest that I could while still trying to have it make sense story wise. Missions that appear on the same line (for example: Americans at Rest / Who Is Not Without Sin) indicate that they happen on the same day. I know there are some days that seem to be stuffed with a lot to fit in in a day (this is especially directed at Chapter 4) but remember that some of those are simply cutscenes or something like that. For example, the biggest one is The Noblest of Men, and a Woman, Part II (Saint Denis) / Idealism and Pragmatism for Beginners (Letter) / The Artist's Way, Part III / A Bright Bouncing Boy / Idealism and Pragmatism for Beginners, Part I, where the 1st one is a cutscene, 2nd one is just picking up a letter, 3rd and 4th are quick side missions that Arthur does while waiting for nightfall to visit the Mayor and the last one just segues into the next day. Just putting this here in order for people to not be overwhelmed by it. It may seem much but when you actually do it it's perfectly paced and definitely works.

 

I also tried to order this in a way that it makes sense story wise but also location wise, like for example: Social Calls With Mr. MacGuire (Home Robbery with Sean) / He's British, of Course / Aberdeen Pig Farm Robbery, Part I. Mission with Sean ends right near the place where He's British, of Course starts, and the Aberdeen Pig Farm is right around there, so it just fits. It gives Arthur a reason to actually meet these people by passing by them, instead of us having Arthur go there because there's a mission marker there. This way makes it more genuine.

 

Chapter 1: Colter

   * Outlaws from the West
   * Enter, Pursued by a Memory
   * The Aftermath of Genesis
   * Old Friends
   * Who the Hell is Leviticus Cornwall?
   * Eastward Bound

 

Chapter 2: Horseshoe Overlook 

   * Americans at Rest / Who Is Not Without Sin
   * Smoking and Other Hobbies (Cutscene) / The First Shall Be Last / All That Glitters (Cutscene)
   * Polite Society, Valentine Style / The Noblest of Men, and a Woman, Part I / All That Glitters (Map)
   * Good, Honest, Snake Oil / A Test of Faith (Cutscene) / Emmet Granger
     * Rob a Homestead (Javier Escuella) / All That Glitters (Map) / Flaco Hernández
   * Money Lending and Other Sins, Parts I & II
   * Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego
   * Paying a Social Call
   * The Spines of America / Bounty Hunting (Ellie Anne Swan)
   * Hunting (Charles Smith) / A Quiet Time
   * Arcadia for Amateurs, Part I / Blessed Are the Meek?
   * We Loved Once and True, Part I / Money Lending and Other Sins, Part III
   * Pouring Forth Oil, Part I / We Loved Once and True, Parts II & III / Arcadia for Amateurs, Part II / Watson's Cabin Robbery
   * Pouring Forth Oil, Parts II (Skip) & III
   * A Fisher of Men / Pouring Forth Oil, Part IV
   * An American Pastoral Scene
   * The Sheep and the Goats
   * A Strange Kindness

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Regarding the very beginning of Chapter 2, I have absolutely no problem putting Who Is Not Without Sin between Americans at Rest and The First Shall Be Last. After AaR, remember that the boys still need to go back to camp to get the supplies they need, like the tent and all, travel to Blackwater and scope the place out, so all that will actually take time. It makes no sense for Arthur to immediately go there. While they do that, I have Arthur take a bath at the hotel in Valentine and then ride back to camp, so I imagine by the time we arrive they have just departed. Arthur plans on going to sleep early in order to depart for Blackwater first thing in the morning but when he arrives he notices Swanson still hasn't returned, checks his drug paraphernalia and decides to check on him at Flatneck Station. He does it because he still has plenty of time, it's still afternoon and Arthur knows he needs to give the boys time to check things in Blackwater.

 

I wanted to do Arcadia for Amateurs, Part I early, around The First Shall Be Last, but it really is strange to do it there because of the coyote running around in the same place the shootout happens, so I put it when Arthur is riding to Strawberry to free Micah. I like it because it's quite on the way and it actually makes sense for Arthur to stop and talk to a stranger considering he's in no hurry to free Micah.

 

Absolutely love the sequence of Blessed Are the Meek? / We Loved Once and True, Part I / Money Lending and Other Sins, Part III, because it gives us an explanation on Arthur being really pissed off when he confronts Downes. He was already irritated by having to risk his life to save Micah, someone he doesn't like, then the whole thing gets worse when it turns into a bloody shootout with the whole town, then he returns and is greeted with a letter from the love of his life, which brings up all those feelings, most of them painful, and then he gets reminded by Strauss about a debt he needs to collect, something Arthur hates to do. It writes itself, just fantastic.

 

The reason why I do Arcadia for Amateurs, Part II / Watson's Cabin Robbery after We Loved Once and True, Part III is because I love the juxtaposition of Arthur going to commit a robbery after Mary's words to him at the train station. Arcadia is literally on the way to Watson's Cabin so it works there alright.

 

Chapter 3: Clemens Point

   * The New South
   * Further Questions of Female Suffrage
   * American Distillation
   * Fishing (Javier Escuella) / An Honest Mistake
   * The Course of True Love, Parts I & II / No Good Deed
   * The Course of True Love, Part III / Billy Midnight
     * Social Calls With Mr. MacGuire (Home Robbery with Sean) / He's British, of Course / Aberdeen Pig Farm Robbery, Part I
     * Fishing (Kieran Duffy) / Bounty Hunting (Camille de Millemont) / The Iniquities of History
   * Advertising, the New American Art
   * The Fine Joys of Tobacco
   * Horse Flesh for Dinner
   * Preaching Forgiveness as He Went
   * Magicians for Sport / Money Lending and Other Sins, Part IV (Gwyn Hughes)
   * Sodom? Back to Gomorrah
   * Friends in Very Low Places
     * Coach Robbery (Bill Williamson) / Money Lending and Other Sins, Part IV (Winton Holmes) / A Fisher of Fish (Cutscene)
     * Coach Robbery (Sean MacGuire) / Arcadia for Amateurs, Part III / Aberdeen Pig Farm Robbery, Part II
   * Blessed Are the Peacemakers
   * A Short Walk in a Pretty Town
   * Blood Feuds, Ancient and Modern
   * The Battle of Shady Belle

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Just realized that this one is pretty straightforward with no real need for much explanations. Anyway, on the third day when I do American Distillation, I headcanon that Arthur is actually on his way to the Gray's place to follow up on Dutch's orders from The New South but while passing through Rhodes he notices the gang's horses and goes to check it out, doing AD instead.

I like to put Sodom between the 2 Trelawny missions because I like to give him more time to fully recuperate.

I split the Aberdeen robbery because I headcanon that Arthur goes there the first time to scope the place out , so he plays along, gets dumbfounded by them and then doesn't proceed with the robbery because he drinks once and gets quite sick. I have him not drink the second shot and leave. Come back latter to rob the place for good.

In Coach Robbery (Sean MacGuire) / Arcadia for Amateurs, Part III / Aberdeen Pig Farm Robbery, Part II, after the robbery with Sean ends, I have Arthur drive the wagon to sell it at Seamus, therefore giving a reason for Arthur to get his 3rd encounter with Mason. I literally had no other place to put it, like I said before, I don't like just riding there because we (the player) know there's a mission there. So that's literally the excuse I found to make it work realistically.

 

Chapter 4: Shady Belle

   * The Joys of Civilization / The Artist's Way, Part I / Fundraiser
   * Angelo Bronte, a Man of Honor
   * Fatherhood and Other Dreams, Parts I & II / Help a Brother Out / The Mercies of Knowledge, Part I
   * No, No and Thrice, No / The Mercies of Knowledge, Part II / Go Rustling (Uncle)
     * The Mercies of Knowledge, Part III / The Artist's Way, Part II
     * Coach Robbery (Lenny Summers) / Money Lending and Other Sins, Part V (Algie Davison)
     * Hunting (Simon Pearson) / High and Low Finance (Rhodes Bank Robbery)
     * Arcadia for Amateurs, Part IV / Black Belle / The Mercies of Knowledge, Part IV & V
   * The Gilded Cage
   * American Fathers, Part I / A Fine Night of Debauchery
     * The Noblest of Men, and a Woman, Part II (Valentine) / Oh Brother, Part I / Visit Sean's Grave / The Ties That Bind Us, Part I
     * The Noblest of Men, and a Woman, Part III (Saint Denis) / Idealism and Pragmatism for Beginners (Letter) / The Artist's Way, Part III / A Bright Bouncing Boy / Idealism and Pragmatism for Beginners, Part I
   * Coach Robbery (Micah Bell) / The Mercies of Knowledge, Part VI / Horsemen, Apocalypses
   * The Mercies of Knowledge, Part VII / Brothers and Sisters, One and All / Urban Pleasures
   * The Ties That Bind Us, Part II / American Fathers, Part II / Oh Brother, Part II
     * The Noblest of Men, and a Woman, Part IV / The Smell of the Grease Paint / Idealism and Pragmatism for Beginners, Part II
   * Country Pursuits
     * The Artist's Way, Part IV / The Smell of the Grease Paint (Saint Denis Show) / Idealism and Pragmatism for Beginners, Part III
   * Revenge Is a Dish Best Eaten
   * Banking, the Old American Art

 

  Reveal hidden contents

So yeah, here we go. This is the chapter that is actually quite straightforward if you only take into account the main missions, but when you try to fit in the side ones it can become hellish to make it work. Main thing to to do here is to try and fit in as much as you can before The Gilded Cage, the party at the Mayor's mansion where the gang gets their leads for future robberies. It makes sense because I like to believe that Arthur and the gang were doing some robberies here and there before they got their leads in Saint Denis. There's not much urgency so all of those fit well before the party.

 

I do The Artist's Way, Part I and Fundraiser on Day 1 because they're very quick and it serves to pass the time waiting for Dutch and John.

Read the letter from Mary and go there immediately fits Arthur. After that's done, I like to believe Arthur wandered reflectively around Saint Denis for a while, meeting Brother Dorkins and Andrew Bell for their respective side missions. Next day, after saving Tilly and being quite close to Rhodes, Arthur goes to the train station to ask Alden about the moonshine for Bell. 

On the day I do Arcadia for Amateurs, Part IV / Black Belle / The Mercies of Knowledge, Part IV & V, I headcanon that Arthur is on his way to Black Belle's house, but comes across Mason on the way there. After that's done, Arthur comes back through Saint Denis and checks out on Bell.

Having very recently visited all the gunslingers, Arthur goes to Valentine to meet with Levin and Calloway but gets told they're in Saint Denis. Meet the brothers while in Valentine and then go back south. On the way, Arthur visits Sean's grave, finally having the opportunity to do so (Never liked visiting it after A Short Walk in a Pretty Town because it always seemed to me to be too soon, like Bill didn't even have time to bury him). Then on the way from Sean's grave to Shady Belle Arthur comes across the two fugitives and helps them out.

After Horsemen, Apocalypses Dutch tells us to meet him at Saint Denis for the trolley robbery. Going there the next day, I headcanon that Arthur gets there early so he decides to take the time by watching the execution by electric chair, and then meets Brother Dorkins and Sister Calderón. He encounters Edith Downes and has to flee the police. I like to believe this is the reason why Arthur's late when he meets Dutch.

On the way to do American Fathers, Part II, Arthur meets the 2 fugitives again.

Visit Kieran's grave anytime considering it's close to Shady Belle.

I really like to do the Mayor's missions so I always include them. I dislike that they have me take Arthur to Saint Denis after the trolley robbery but they mostly take place at night so whatever. I actually kill Jean Marc because I like to believe Arthur panicked when the Mayor told him that Jean Marc would also expose Arthur and the gang. I headcanon that this mission taking place late in the chapter, therefore being so close to the bank job prompted Arthur to kill him out of fear Jean Marc could potentially ruin everything when they were so close to pull off the bank job and finally leave. I like to believe it's Arthur's last dishonorable act.

On the day that I receive the first letter and do the first mission from the Mayor, you can also do the Duchesses and other Animals cutscene to pass the time.

Oh yeah, I also finish the The Noblest of Men, and a Woman in this chapter because I really don't think it fits in Chapter 6. It feels out of place there for me. I never visit a region ahead of time, this being the only exception. Not to mention that it's a quick visit, it's not like Arthur stays for days in that region. It even fits well because Arthur seems to be aware of Annesburg in Icarus and Friends.

 

Chapter 5: Guarma

   * Welcome to the New World
   * Savagery Unleashed
   * A Kind and Benevolent Despot
   * Hell Hath No Fury
   * Paradise Mercifully Departed
   * Dear Uncle Tacitus
   * Fleeting Joy
   * Visit Hosea and Lenny's Grave / A Fork in the Road
   * Icarus and Friends
   * That’s Murfree Country

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Pretty straightforward. Before going to Saint Denis for Sadie's mission, I visit Hosea and Lenny's grave. I'm pretty sure a lot of people explained already why it makes more sense to do A Fork in the Road/Icarus and Friends before That's Murfree Country so I will only mention that even the closing cutscene of a Fleeting Joy adds to that. It ends with Dutch who is clearly very tired going to rest, immediately followed up by Sadie telling Arthur to meet her in Saint Denis to find a way to save John.

 

Chapter 6: Beaver Hollow

   * Visiting Hours
   * Just a Social Call / The Widow of Willard’s Rest, Part I
   * A Rage Unleashed / The Wisdom of the Elders, Part I
   * Archeology for Beginners / The Veteran Part I
   * Honor, Amongst Thieves / All That Glitters (Treasure)
   * Of Men and Angels / Goodbye, Dear Friend
   * The Fine Art of Conversation
     * The Course of True Love, Part V / Arcadia for Amateurs, Part V / The Wisdom of the Elders, Part II
   * Favored Sons
   * The King’s Son
   * The Delights of Van Horn / The Widow of Willard’s Rest, Part II
   * The Bridge to Nowhere / The Veteran Part II
     * Money Lending and Other Sins, Part VI & VII
     * Do Not Seek Absolution, Part I / The Veteran, Part III
     * The Wisdom of the Elders, Parts III, IV & V
   * Do Not Seek Absolution, Part II / Mrs. Sadie Adler, Widow, Parts I & II / The Ties That Bind Us, Part III / Oh Brother, Part III
   * The Widow of Willard’s Rest, Part III / My Last Boy
   * Our Best Selves
   * Red Dead Redemption

 

  Reveal hidden contents

This one is also quite straightforward, I mostly took inspiration from jimmyoneshot so I don't have much to add here. There aren't many side missions here so we can fit them rather nicely anyway you want it. I actually have Arthur finish All That Glitters here because I headcanon that after finding out the two maps originally in Chapter 2 he got frustrated and assumed it was a scam. I assume he kept the maps, remembered that the third one was located somewhere close to Hamish's place, went there and found it.

I visit Marko Dragic when I visit Charlotte because it's close.

 

Epilogue — Part I: Pronghorn Ranch

   * The Wheel
   * Simple Pleasures
   * Fatherhood, for Beginners
   * Farming, for Beginners
   * Old Habits
   * Jim Milton Rides, Again?
   * Fatherhood, for Idiots
   * Motherhood
   * The Landowning Classes/Home of the Gentry?
   
Epilogue — Part II: Beecher's Hope

   * Gainful Employment
   * Bare Knuckle Friendships
   * Home Improvement for Beginners
     * Bounty Hunting (Herman Zizendorf)
   * An Honest Day’s Labors
     * Bounty Hunting (Bart Cavanaugh)
   * The Tool Box
   * A New Jerusalem
     * Bounty Hunting (Elias Green)
   * A Quick Favor for an Old Friend
     * Bounty Hunting (Otis Skinner)
   * Uncle's Bad Day
   * The Best of Women
   * A Really Big Bastard
     * American Dreams (Edmund Lowry Jr.) / Mary-Beth
   * Trying Again
     * Bounty Hunting (Mark Johnson) / Pearson
   * A New Future Imagined
     * Bounty Hunting (Anthony Foreman) / Tilly Jackson
   * American Venom

 

Nothing to add here really, I just included quite a few bounties here and there because John has to pay his debts so I do it before American Venom. I do the two Skinner Brothers bounties shortly before Uncle's Bad Day in order to add some more justification for their actions.

 

John's Pilgrimage (Paying Respects)

* Beecher's Hope
* Horseshoe Overlook Camp
* Sean's Grave / Clemens Point Camp
* Kieran's Grave / Shady Belle Camp
* Hosea and Lenny's Grave / Susan Grimshaw's Grave
* Rains Fall / Beaver Hollow Camp / Charlotte Balfour
* The Veteran, Part IV / Arthur Morgan's Grave / Eagle Flies' Grave
* Beecher's Hope

 

I apologize for the size of this post. It's a big game!

This is awesome, currently attempting to create something similar but as many of the folks here have mentioned once you start trying to add in the various stranger missions, companion activities, bounties, collectibles etc it gets very difficult! Like you I also don’t like visiting places until they’re unlocked during the story which makes it even more challenging, also in terms of strangers there are a few that unlock at unusual stages like ‘Oh Brother’ and ‘The Ties That Bind Us’ both of them unlock in Chapter 4 when it would make more sense to unlock in Chapter 2 and 3 when Arthur was around that particular area. Still, I will get there in the end!

[Dan_1983]

I do American Dreams as Arthur. I usually collect map 1 near Valentine in Chapter 2 and map 2 in Lemoyne in Chapter 3 or 4. Finding the last map near Wallace Station (usually after Sadie's revenge mission) and then bringing in Edmund to the Sheriff fits nicely in with Arthur's redemption path in Chapter 6.

 

I have more a free reins in terms of visiting places, but I usually stay within the state that a certain chapter takes place in. I don't visit Rhodes before Chapter 3 and Saint Denis before Chapter 4. 

 

I usually do Flaco Hernandez after Javier's home robbery in Chapter 2 as it's a long ride from anywhere in Chapter 3 onwards. While I'm up there I do visit Jenny's grave as Arthur. I usually visit Davey's grave as Arthur in Chapter 1.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Dan_1983

[EpiceneBlue]

13 hours ago, Dan_1983 said:

I do American Dreams as Arthur. I usually collect map 1 near Valentine in Chapter 2 and map 2 in Lemoyne in Chapter 3 or 4. Finding the last map near Wallace Station (usually after Sadie's revenge mission) and then bringing in Edmund to the Sheriff fits nicely in with Arthur's redemption path in Chapter 6.

 

I have more a free reins in terms of visiting places, but I usually stay within the state that a certain chapter takes place in. I don't visit Rhodes before Chapter 3 and Saint Denis before Chapter 4. 

 

I usually do Flaco Hernandez after Javier's home robbery in Chapter 2 as it's a long ride from anywhere in Chapter 3 onwards. While I'm up there I do visit Jenny's grave as Arthur. I usually visit Davey's grave as Arthur in Chapter 1.

 

I agree about not visiting places without purpose except that one bit where if you don't visit St. Denis in Ch. 2 you won't get Arthur's name on the building plaque from donating to the woman collecting for it and I do so like that. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by EpiceneBlue

[EpiceneBlue]

I just want to thank everyone in this amazing thread for all of the information & input over the years. I have learned so much reading through every single post! And then testing mission orders over and over and over LOL. Like, I would never have known I was missing so much good dialogue doing Old Friends and The Aftermath of Genesis in the wrong order in Ch. 1. (Who cares about the deer dialogue when the other dialogue is much more fun.)

 

I think I've finally decided firmly on my opening missions for Ch.2 to build on from here. After trying like every combination. It just makes the most sense to me that after speaking to Hosea, Arthur would be the MOST concerned about Swanson - knowing he's trouble. And he's so close by. So for me, Arthur would probably do his morning chores, get a shave, change clothes, enjoy the first dialogue rounds, get Dutch's speech notes - and for me after Pearson mentions it - hunt something for the camp. Turning in a full carcus gets the trader info from Pearson first thing too. Then Arthur would see Swanson's bible, know he was never anywhere without it, and go looking for him. Also here you may get the Dutch/Molly Romance scene where he can tell you to go look for the guys in town. But first Arthur is feeling he should check in on Swanson.

 

So... go do Without Sin around 2 to 3 PM. Kill the O'Driscoll duo on the way and dump them off a cliff on the other side of the road. Play a few rounds of poker since nothing feels all that urgent really and the clock will reset to 5PM at the end of the mission no matter what. I stop before rescuing Swansom from the train to retrieve my hat, loot the guy I beat to death and dump his body in a clump of trees. Only takes a minute but I feel Arthur would do that and from HIS viewpoint (not the swirly overhead camera), he doesn't know Swanson is getting stuck on the bridge. OR do this on the way back with Swanson, ignoring the trophy. Then haul Swanson back to camp, walk the long way around it to get all the fun dialogue from everyone before dumping him in his tent.

 

Now Arthur thinks he should check on the guys because Dutch told him to earlier. Avoiding Hosea (whistle the horse away from him), there is JUST enough time haul ass to Valentine, take down the O'Driscoll duo beating the buy behind the gallows, talk to Downes & get the pamplet at the charity table, and still get into the tavern at dusk for Americans at Rest before full dark when it would be busier BUT the town would still have plenty of people wandering around for the crowd for the fight. This to me eliminates that whole idea of having to do Americans at Rest in the "daytime" and allows Without Sin & Americans at Rest to be done the first day.

 

Then, you are muddy and hurting, you go take a bath, decide to crash at the hotel, and (maybe) stop at the OTHER tavern since the main one is closed for breakfast and to pick up the gunslingers mission before riding straight out to rescue Sean. Arthur I think would stop for breakfast, but not to dawdle at shops and such - saving those things for later with Polite Society.

 

So that's my RP justification for my new Ch. 2 opening order:

 

(Camp - Opening Dialogues, Dutch Pipe, Hosea Book)

(Hunt - Kill Cougar, Save Man Near Brush Fire, Loot Lock Box)

(Camp - Drop Off Cougar Carcass, Get Trader Info,  Dutch / Molly Romance / Mary-Beth Pen)

(O'Driscoll Duo On Way To Station)

*Who Is Not Without Sin

(O'Driscoll Duo Behind Gallows)

(Downes At Charity Table / Pamplet)

*Americans at Rest

(Linger slowly in leaving to enjoy random dialogues at the hotel like the 3 working girls / fighting couple.)

(Stop For Breakfast At 2nd Tavern)

*The Noblest of Men, and a Woman

*The First Shall Be Last

 

 

[Gil217]

1 hour ago, EpiceneBlue said:

 

I agree about not visiting places without purpose except that one bit where if you don't visit St. Denis in Ch. 2 you won't get Arthur's name on the building plaque from donating to the woman collecting for it and I do so like that. 

That's a glitch, I think. I always do Fundraiser in Chapter 4 and Arthur's name appears in the building plaque in the Epilogue.

[EpiceneBlue]

37 minutes ago, Gil217 said:

That's a glitch, I think. I always do Fundraiser in Chapter 4 and Arthur's name appears in the building plaque in the Epilogue.

Well! I read multiple places like here on Reddit you just had to do it in Ch. 2 or it wouldn't work so I always have. Bah! I will skip it this time until Ch. 4 and hope not to regret it LOL. I trust ya!

[Dan_1983]

9 hours ago, EpiceneBlue said:

 

I agree about not visiting places without purpose except that one bit where if you don't visit St. Denis in Ch. 2 you won't get Arthur's name on the building plaque from donating to the woman collecting for it and I do so like that. 

No reason to visit Rhodes and Saint Denis in Chapter 2. I am sure I did it in my first ever playthrough, but that's because I was too busy exploring the map whilst playing the story. If you want to visit a fence early, take the long trip to Van Horn like I do as it's still in New Hanover. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Dan_1983

[EpiceneBlue]

So this bit of dialogue in The First Shall Be Last always bugs me. Arthur tells Trelawny "We'll rescue Sean and then get good and lost. It's a big country." This sounds weird since they are only going to split briefly and then just go back to the Overlook where they will be for quite a bit more time. I feel like that is dialogue you would have right before like you went back and the whole gang fled to a new location. It just feels odd. 

[Dan_1983]

39 minutes ago, EpiceneBlue said:

So this bit of dialogue in The First Shall Be Last always bugs me. Arthur tells Trelawny "We'll rescue Sean and then get good and lost. It's a big country." This sounds weird since they are only going to split briefly and then just go back to the Overlook where they will be for quite a bit more time. I feel like that is dialogue you would have right before like you went back and the whole gang fled to a new location. It just feels odd. 

I think it was in reference to doing the job and then getting the hell out of there. The only thing lawman are going to find is a bounty hunter camp full of dead bodies.

 

No one knows where the gang are camping and remember it took the Pinkertons weeks before they found the gang near Horseshoe.

[BrandyNova]

On 4/12/2023 at 12:57 PM, EpiceneBlue said:

 

I agree about not visiting places without purpose except that one bit where if you don't visit St. Denis in Ch. 2 you won't get Arthur's name on the building plaque from donating to the woman collecting for it and I do so like that. 

I do that donation in Chapter 4, when he is on his way to meet Trelawny for the Riverboat heist.   I always get his name on the plaque.

[Dan_1983]

8 hours ago, BrandyNova said:

I do that donation in Chapter 4, when he is on his way to meet Trelawny for the Riverboat heist.   I always get his name on the plaque.

Same but I always do it just before meeting Dutch and John.

[Aldous Bramley]

how to trigger conversation between Dutch and Molly after which Dutch told Arthur to go to Valentine?

[Aldous Bramley]

and how to trigger these conversations?

 

 

 

aaaand how to trigger Grimshaw washing scene? Isn't it guaranteed after Tommy fight? I came back to camp at night (after Tommy fight) and she was sleeping. Guess you need to do that at certain time.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Aldous Bramley

[BrandyNova]

1 hour ago, Aldous Bramley said:

how to trigger conversation between Dutch and Molly after which Dutch told Arthur to go to Valentine?

I stick around on day 2 (for me, after Without Sin).  I do go hunting in the morning.  When Arthur returns, Dutch is woo'ing Molly, who is giggling, and Arthur makes fun of them.

 

For me, there is an audio glitch - Dutch comes out of his tent and waves his arms about, obviously saying something but no words are heard.  Arthur responds testily that he'll go "check on them in town".  I have a video of it somewhere...

Edited April 19, 2023 by BrandyNova

[Aldous Bramley]

19 minutes ago, BrandyNova said:

I have a video of it somewhere...

yeah i saw it first in your playthrough.

These conversations (Dutch-Molly, Keiran-girls) made me want to remake my whole chapter 2 order Again.

[BrandyNova]

17 minutes ago, Aldous Bramley said:

yeah i saw it first in your playthrough.

These conversations (Dutch-Molly, Keiran-girls) made me want to remake my whole chapter 2 order Again.

haha indeed!   How many times have I reordered my chapter 2 based on some comment made here?!  It is all so much fun!!!  And not just a little frustrating!   

 

[EpiceneBlue]

On 4/18/2023 at 9:34 PM, Aldous Bramley said:

how to trigger conversation between Dutch and Molly after which Dutch told Arthur to go to Valentine?

Just leave camp and go do something NOT a mission - like I go kill the Cougar nearby and come back and hang near the tent it spawns for me every time. I do this day one after I take in all the initial camp dialogue, go kill cougar, come back and pretty much loads right up. Along with some other good dialogue bits I take in before going to do my first mission. Including the Keiran ones. The Sadie one like always pops for me at this point, the Tilly one is more random it seems.

Edited April 20, 2023 by EpiceneBlue

[jimmyoneshot]

Interesting cut cutscene which I've only just seen for the first time:-
 

Looks like at some point the gang was meant to get suits before the mayors party in Gilded Cage but it was cut. I'm guessing they cut this because they wanted to use Fine Night Of Debauchery as the intro to the tailors and Arthur getting cleaned up and maybe this took the shine off that.

[jimmyoneshot]

Some thoughts I had just today while doing another random playthrough. I've been thinking about WHY Rockstar put certain lines into the game and if they have another meaning. I think we've all played so much that we can easily forget that some lines are a way of letting a new player know about something:-

1. At the end of Chapter 1 Dutch says "Uncle, Reverend Swanson. No more passengers". This may be a line to indicate to the player that Uncle and Swanson are the useless ones of the gang but also as a way of setting up their individual missions, giving justification for Polite Society and Without Sin both being done early in Chapter 2. By doing both of their missions Arthur could essentially be following up on this. It does seem to be partly his role to kick people up the arse and make them work sometimes.

2. When visiting the Hotel for the first time after Polite Society the hotel owner is shocked and after talking to Arthur he nervously says "Do you want a bath perhaps?". By this, he could just be trying to get rid of Arthur as fast as possible wanting him to get a bath rather than stay overnight but I wonder if he could be saying this as Arthur has previously had a bath there? At the end of Americans At Rest Dutch tells Arthur to clean himself up, which he does in the water barrel but then we are left facing the hotel directly with Arthur's clothes covered in mud, which getting a bath fixes. I sometimes suspect that at some point there was maybe like a mini tutorial here for how to get a bath at the hotel. I always found it strange that the game doesn't tell us about this when it holds our hand through pretty much everything else.

3. At the start of Strange Kindness Dutch says that Micah was the one who suggested Dewberry Creek as a new camp location. I've always been curious why they specifically chose it to be stated that Micah was the one that suggested the location. This may be a way of showing that Micah comes up with stupid and dangerous ideas but it could also be a way of justifying leaving American Pastoral Scene until Chapter 3. As we know, Micah wouldn't have any idea where the gang is if we do his mission in Chapter 3 as Arthur doesn't tell him about the move so perhaps this line was put in there so that the player could rationalize that Micah went to Dewberry Creek looking for the gang after suggesting that location to Dutch and then tracked them to Clemens Point. I quite regularly get the random dialogue in the Clemens Point camp where Dutch approaches Micah and acts as if he has only just gotten back to camp which doesn't really fit if we did Pastoral in Chapter 2. The fact they allowed Pastoral to be done all the way into Chapter 3 may be something to think about.

[Dan_1983]

As tempting as it is to leave Micah rotting in jail and later leave him in his hermit camp near Strawberry until Chapter 3, I think he is meant to rescued from jail and back in camp in Chapter 2.

[jimmyoneshot]

3 hours ago, Dan_1983 said:

As tempting as it is to leave Micah rotting in jail and later leave him in his hermit camp near Strawberry until Chapter 3, I think he is meant to rescued from jail and back in camp in Chapter 2.

Out of curiosity, have you ever had this in Chapter 2? I only ever get it in 3 for some reason even ages after Micah has returned back in Chapter 2. Seems to fit straight after Micah has returned to camp so would work better in 2 but it could be a case that this is the first time Dutch has spoken to Micah since returning maybe.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by jimmyoneshot

[Dan_1983]

9 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Out of curiosity, have you ever had this in Chapter 2? I only ever get it in 3 for some reason even ages after Micah has returned back in Chapter 2. Seems to fit straight after Micah has returned to camp so would work better in 2 but it could be a case that this is the first time Dutch has spoken to Micah since returning maybe.

 

 

If I remember, I've only had that in Chapter 3. In Chapter 2 when he returns, Micah sucks up to Dutch a few times in camp, with one of those conversations involving the Blackwater money.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Dan_1983

[BrandyNova]

20 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Some thoughts I had just today while doing another random playthrough. I've been thinking about WHY Rockstar put certain lines into the game and if they have another meaning. I think we've all played so much that we can easily forget that some lines are a way of letting a new player know about something:-

1. At the end of Chapter 1 Dutch says "Uncle, Reverend Swanson. No more passengers". This may be a line to indicate to the player that Uncle and Swanson are the useless ones of the gang but also as a way of setting up their individual missions, giving justification for Polite Society and Without Sin both being done early in Chapter 2. By doing both of their missions Arthur could essentially be following up on this. It does seem to be partly his role to kick people up the arse and make them work sometimes.

2. When visiting the Hotel for the first time after Polite Society the hotel owner is shocked and after talking to Arthur he nervously says "Do you want a bath perhaps?". By this, he could just be trying to get rid of Arthur as fast as possible wanting him to get a bath rather than stay overnight but I wonder if he could be saying this as Arthur has previously had a bath there? At the end of Americans At Rest Dutch tells Arthur to clean himself up, which he does in the water barrel but then we are left facing the hotel directly with Arthur's clothes covered in mud, which getting a bath fixes. I sometimes suspect that at some point there was maybe like a mini tutorial here for how to get a bath at the hotel. I always found it strange that the game doesn't tell us about this when it holds our hand through pretty much everything else.

3. At the start of Strange Kindness Dutch says that Micah was the one who suggested Dewberry Creek as a new camp location. I've always been curious why they specifically chose it to be stated that Micah was the one that suggested the location. This may be a way of showing that Micah comes up with stupid and dangerous ideas but it could also be a way of justifying leaving American Pastoral Scene until Chapter 3. As we know, Micah wouldn't have any idea where the gang is if we do his mission in Chapter 3 as Arthur doesn't tell him about the move so perhaps this line was put in there so that the player could rationalize that Micah went to Dewberry Creek looking for the gang after suggesting that location to Dutch and then tracked them to Clemens Point. I quite regularly get the random dialogue in the Clemens Point camp where Dutch approaches Micah and acts as if he has only just gotten back to camp which doesn't really fit if we did Pastoral in Chapter 2. The fact they allowed Pastoral to be done all the way into Chapter 3 may be something to think about.

 

1.  That always seemed like such a random line to me.   I always figured he says that because Uncle and Swanson are the ones who keep finding passengers.   But I don't know of any "passengers" that they brought into the gang?  Settings up for their respective missions is an interesting idea.  

 

2. I agree - its another of many reasons why I prefer to do Americans at Rest before Polite Society.   It makes sense to have a bath after that brawl with Tommy, which then explains the hotel owner's nervous behaviour towards Arthur in Polite Society.  If doing Polite Society first, then why would he be nervous?

 

3. This is an interesting point.  I've always done American Pastoral til late in Chapter 2, right after PFO4 and before meeting up with John in Valentine for Sheep & Goats, then directly on to Strange Kindness.   I do think Dutch says this to show us again how stupid and dangerous Micah is with plans (Blackwater failure being another good indication).   I didn't leave this til Chapter 3 precisely because Arthur doesn't tell him where the new camp is.  I like the idea though.   If we leave it to Chapter 3,  we could rationalize that Arthur doesn't tell him on purpose.  But does Micah mention that to Arthur (like "thanks for making me work to find the new camp")?  Seems like that's something he would snark about.

I've also noticed that Dutch reproaches Micah about Strawberry a ways into Chapter 3 for me, after they've had several other conversations.  It always seemed a bit out of place.