RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 - "Chronological" Mission Order

[JB1982]

Just completed the heartbreaking Chapter 6. No real observations on Chapter 5 apart from the end as you crossover into Chapter 6.

 

After being attacked by the Pinkertons at Lakay, it really feels to me that the priority should be to move camp. It is too dangerous to stay there. So that indicates that you should do That's Murfree Country and trigger Chapter 6. This also is your first real introduction to Annesburg. Which makes more sense for Arthur knowing about Annesburg and Sadie being up there in Icarus and Friends.

 

The only problem I have with this is that Arthur visibly coughs up blood at the end of the cutscene at Beaver Hollow in That's Murfree Country which is a bit startling if you haven't already done A Fork in the Road. Plus, there's a few camp conversations at Beaver Hollow about Arthur's health which seem to indicate that Arthur has his TB diagnosis at this point.

 

So I am torn on this bit about chronology. Maybe I am reading too much into the Beaver Hollow stuff when I know what is coming. It would be great to play the game again for the first time without any knowledge and try to piece this together. Alas that isn't possible.

 

Anyway, into the first Epilogue. But first I need some time to weep and grieve for Arthur and my beloved horse Old Faithful.

[Sean800]

On 3/19/2023 at 4:50 PM, JB1982 said:

Just completed the heartbreaking Chapter 6. No real observations on Chapter 5 apart from the end as you crossover into Chapter 6.

 

After being attacked by the Pinkertons at Lakay, it really feels to me that the priority should be to move camp. It is too dangerous to stay there. So that indicates that you should do That's Murfree Country and trigger Chapter 6. This also is your first real introduction to Annesburg. Which makes more sense for Arthur knowing about Annesburg and Sadie being up there in Icarus and Friends.

 

The only problem I have with this is that Arthur visibly coughs up blood at the end of the cutscene at Beaver Hollow in That's Murfree Country which is a bit startling if you haven't already done A Fork in the Road. Plus, there's a few camp conversations at Beaver Hollow about Arthur's health which seem to indicate that Arthur has his TB diagnosis at this point.

 

So I am torn on this bit about chronology. Maybe I am reading too much into the Beaver Hollow stuff when I know what is coming. It would be great to play the game again for the first time without any knowledge and try to piece this together. Alas that isn't possible.

 

Anyway, into the first Epilogue. But first I need some time to weep and grieve for Arthur and my beloved horse Old Faithful.

 

Well the Pinkertons lost quite a lot of men during the Lakay mission, so it could be wise from them to temporarily retreat for a couple of days.

 

On the other hand John's fate is unknown, looking out for him could be seen as the bigger priority. 

 

This is my headcanon because, yeah, I agree with you: the tubercolosis mission fits Chapter 5 a lot better.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Sean800

[Alexlecj]

I like to think the second half of chapter 5 is the perfect setup for the grand finale.

 

You receive an update on all the main antagonists :

-Agent Milton (Fleeting Joy)

-Colm O'Driscoll (Icarus and Friends)

-Leviticus Cornwall (That's Murfree Country)

You understand that Arthur will die, and that the gang is "dying" too.

The only beacon of hope? Saving John Marston.

[JB1982]

Gainful Employment should be done before The Landowning Classes and Home of the Gentry in my opinion. John says to Sadie that he is looking to buy Beechers Hope, indicating to me that he hasn't bought it yet chronologically.

[Dan_1983]

17 hours ago, JB1982 said:

Gainful Employment should be done before The Landowning Classes and Home of the Gentry in my opinion. John says to Sadie that he is looking to buy Beechers Hope, indicating to me that he hasn't bought it yet chronologically.

The cutscene dialogue about John looking to buy Beecher's Hope stays the same, however during the mission John will mention Uncle is now staying with him if Landowning Classes and Home of the Gentry are done before Gainful Employment. 

 

[JB1982]

13 minutes ago, Dan_1983 said:

The cutscene dialogue about John looking to buy Beecher's Hope stays the same, however during the mission John will mention Uncle is now staying with him if Landowning Classes and Home of the Gentry are done before Gainful Employment. 

 

Picked up on that too as I sent my original observation whilst pausing the cutscene. Such was my excitement! Then John mentions Uncle to Sadie on the ride and I was a bit confused!

 

Seems a bit strange that it is just a fixed cutscene regardless of mission order but the mission then allows for variable dialogue later on.

[Dan_1983]

23 hours ago, JB1982 said:

Picked up on that too as I sent my original observation whilst pausing the cutscene. Such was my excitement! Then John mentions Uncle to Sadie on the ride and I was a bit confused!

 

Seems a bit strange that it is just a fixed cutscene regardless of mission order but the mission then allows for variable dialogue later on.

You get a nice encounter with Uncle after Home of the Gentry where they talk about Sadie and he scolds John for not seeing her yet.

[JB1982]

26 minutes ago, Dan_1983 said:

You get a nice encounter with Uncle after Home of the Gentry where they talk about Sadie and he scolds John for not seeing her yet.

I swear that I have done it in this order before but this was the first time I triggered that encounter. Probably just got on my horse previously and headed off to meet Sadie.

[JB1982]

I have finished the Epilogue's now. Pottering about now finishing the side missions and stuff to get 100%. No further thoughts on story missions.

 

I do have a thought on the stagecoach robberies, however. I am thinking that these are designed for Arthur. My reasoning is as thus:

 

1. Arthur is introduced to this through a story mission by Trelawny. I feel that this is important as there isn't an equivalent with John in either Epilogue. Unlike bounties for example where John actually does bounty hunting with Sadie in several story missions.

2. Hector in Strawberry recognises you as a friend of Trelawny's. This makes more sense narratively if you do it as Arthur during the main story whilst Trelawny is still around rather than as John years later when Trelawny is long gone.

3. One of the Strawberry tips relates to the Appleseed Timber Company. Appleseed has been closed down by the time of the Epilogue.

[Smarty99]

Hey everyone, quick question regarding a piece of dialogue in the epilogue mission ‘An Honest Days Labors’. When John says to Sadie he’s been doing some bounty hunting of his own recently, does he say this regardless of whether you’ve actually completed any other bounties with John? Just so I can factor this into my order as that would really break immersion for me.

[JB1982]

Just now, Smarty99 said:

Hey everyone, quick question regarding a piece of dialogue in the epilogue mission ‘An Honest Days Labors’. When John says to Sadie he’s been doing some bounty hunting of his own recently, does he say this regardless of whether you’ve actually completed any other bounties with John? Just so I can factor this into my order as that would really break immersion for me. 

He didn't say that dialogue on my latest playthrough. I had only done the Good Honest Snake Oil bounty as Arthur in the main chapters and then the Epilogue story bounties with Sadie. I left all optional bounties for once the whole story was finished.

 

From what I have experienced previously though, I would say that this dialogue is just triggered by the optional bounties. So if you do some as Arthur, it triggers John to act as if he has done some too. So if you stay clear of the optional bounties you should be fine.

[Smarty99]

2 hours ago, JB1982 said:

He didn't say that dialogue on my latest playthrough. I had only done the Good Honest Snake Oil bounty as Arthur in the main chapters and then the Epilogue story bounties with Sadie. I left all optional bounties for once the whole story was finished.

 

From what I have experienced previously though, I would say that this dialogue is just triggered by the optional bounties. So if you do some as Arthur, it triggers John to act as if he has done some too. So if you stay clear of the optional bounties you should be fine.

That’s interesting thanks mate! So that would mean leaving the Ellie Ann Swan bounty until the epilogue, what about the one in the Saint Denis stranger mission with the crazy professor can you still do that as Arthur? There is also American Dreams but don’t think that’s a bounty mission as such.

[JB1982]

1 hour ago, Smarty99 said:

That’s interesting thanks mate! So that would mean leaving the Ellie Ann Swan bounty until the epilogue, what about the one in the Saint Denis stranger mission with the crazy professor can you still do that as Arthur? There is also American Dreams but don’t think that’s a bounty mission as such.

Forgot about those ones. Did both of those as Arthur. As you say, the game probably doesn't class them as bounty missions.

[Smarty99]

32 minutes ago, JB1982 said:

Forgot about those ones. Did both of those as Arthur. As you say, the game probably doesn't class them as bounty missions.

Yeah probably. To be honest I might just do couple bounties with John in between meeting Sadie as it does make sense at that point in the story anyway, he needs all the money he can get to pay off his debt and even mentions this himself a few times. In that case I would still be able to do the Ellie Ann Swann bounty with Arthur which seems to fit better given he already helped Sheriff Malloy before with Benedict Allbright following up on the lead Uncle pointed out to him.

[Dan_1983]

On 3/28/2023 at 8:15 PM, JB1982 said:

I have finished the Epilogue's now. Pottering about now finishing the side missions and stuff to get 100%. No further thoughts on story missions.

 

I do have a thought on the stagecoach robberies, however. I am thinking that these are designed for Arthur. My reasoning is as thus:

 

1. Arthur is introduced to this through a story mission by Trelawny. I feel that this is important as there isn't an equivalent with John in either Epilogue. Unlike bounties for example where John actually does bounty hunting with Sadie in several story missions.

2. Hector in Strawberry recognises you as a friend of Trelawny's. This makes more sense narratively if you do it as Arthur during the main story whilst Trelawny is still around rather than as John years later when Trelawny is long gone.

3. One of the Strawberry tips relates to the Appleseed Timber Company. Appleseed has been closed down by the time of the Epilogue.

I do all stagecoach robberies as Arthur as it makes more sense seeing as John is trying to go straight in the epilogue.

 

The main problem for me used to be fitting in all 3 Strawberry stagecoach robberies, so I normally go and stay in and around Strawberry in Chapter 3 for 3-4 days, where I also collect Winton Holmes' debt, rob Watson's cabin and kill the wolves for the Appleseed Timber Co.

 

When I go back to camp, I usually I get an earful from Dutch and Susan about killing innocent people lol.

[EpiceneBlue]

On 2/8/2023 at 6:34 PM, JonnyTNT7 said:

Has anyone else tried putting First Shall Be Last on the same day as Americans at Rest? That’s how I’ve been doing it the past couple of playthroughs. My reasoning:

 

  Hide contents

• The biggest issue I have with At Rest is what to do after it. Saving Swanson just doesn’t feel right given the urgency of the Sean situation, and there are no other significant distractions. Flatneck Station isn’t even en route to Blackwater, so there’s no reason (in my opinion) to postpone Sean’s rescue in favour of Swanson’s.
• I strongly feel that the intended thing to do after Without Sin is to spend the night in camp. When you complete the mission, the sun is setting, Dutch is playing opera, and it just feels right to stay in camp rather than head to Blackwater immediately. But it makes no sense to stay in camp after saving Swanson if Sean is still out there - or it doesn’t feel right, anyway.
• There is plenty of time to fit both in the same day. At Rest is finished by 11am/12pm at the latest. I ride down to the river when Dutch tells Arthur to get cleaned up, since your horse is always dirty at this point too. Then I head towards Blackwater. Even with interacting with random encounters, I still make it there comfortably for 3/4pm.
• TFSBL pauses time at 5pm, so there are no time-related issues there. Plus, it avoids the awkward fast-forwarding of time that occurs if you play the mission in the morning, as you cross back into New Hanover. I always find this very jarring if I wait until the following day to play TFSBL, since the sun is visibly accelerating to make it night for the party.
• The only issue I see is the other gang members changing clothes and having a tent set up. I don’t mind either since (a) clothes have been shown to be inconsistent (and they may havebeen changed because they got dirty during At Rest) and (b) I think the tent is just a generic campsite model, so doesn’t indicate the boys have necessarily camped overnight.

Of course, this changes absolutely nothing overall, since it’s literally just moving a mission from being standalone to being on the previous day. Still, this is my new favourite opening to Chapter 2:

 

  Hide contents

<Spend time in camp, hunt, explore etc>
Who is Not Without Sin?
- - - - -

Americans at Rest

The First Shall be Last

<Sean’s Party>
- - - - -

etc etc

 

I so so so want to do Without Sin first. It just makes sense to me that would be the thing Arthur would do first because he would worry about Swanson getting into serious trouble. And it makes all the timelone of chapter 2 work so well BUT if you do it first, ONLY Molly reacts to bringing Swanson back to camp. If you fo it later, everyone in camp reacts o bringing him back. So that's a whole lot of dialogue that gets missed and that seems a loss and definately not what Rockstar intended I'm guessing. Whyyyyy didn't they allow all those responses if you do his mission first! GRRRRR.

[Dan_1983]

I think Who is Not Without Sin is the best mission to start Chapter 2. It's a stand alone mission, with no links to other missions and it's also a pain in the backside to fit elsewhere.

 

Plus Swanson is a vulnerable drunk with a morphine addiction, so it would be in character if Arthur went to see what Swanson is doing at Flatneck Station before thinking about heading into Valentine.

 

I don't like doing it after Americans at Rest as Arthur's top priority would be heading towards Blackwater and seeing about rescuing Sean.

[JB1982]

8 hours ago, EpiceneBlue said:

I so so so want to do Without Sin first. It just makes sense to me that would be the thing Arthur would do first because he would worry about Swanson getting into serious trouble. And it makes all the timelone of chapter 2 work so well BUT if you do it first, ONLY Molly reacts to bringing Swanson back to camp. If you fo it later, everyone in camp reacts o bringing him back. So that's a whole lot of dialogue that gets missed and that seems a loss and definately not what Rockstar intended I'm guessing. Whyyyyy didn't they allow all those responses if you do his mission first! GRRRRR.

Never realised that this had hidden dialogue. That certainly confuses matters!  

[EpiceneBlue]

7 hours ago, JB1982 said:

Never realised that this had hidden dialogue. That certainly confuses matters!  

I seriously never think I'm going to be satisfied with a Chapter 2 order. I swear I've been mucking about with this for a solid month now and I'm still not happy. I've literally read and made notes on this entire 197 pages of topic even and still can't be satisfied, I keep redoing. It's a disease and must stop! LOL. 

 

Here's a video BTW of the camp dialogue reactions - which you DON'T get if you do the mission first. 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by EpiceneBlue

[JB1982]

33 minutes ago, EpiceneBlue said:

I seriously never think I'm going to be satisfied with a Chapter 2 order. I swear I've been mucking about with this for a solid month now and I'm still not happy. I've literally read and made notes on this entire 197 pages of topic even and still can't be satisfied, I keep redoing. It's a disease and must stop! LOL. 

 

Here's a video BTW of the camp dialogue reactions - which you DON'T get if you do the mission first. 

 

 

I don't think anyone will ever be satisfied with a Chapter 2 order. It's definitely the most difficult chapter to assess in my opinion.

[BrandyNova]

21 hours ago, EpiceneBlue said:

I so so so want to do Without Sin first. It just makes sense to me that would be the thing Arthur would do first because he would worry about Swanson getting into serious trouble. And it makes all the timelone of chapter 2 work so well BUT if you do it first, ONLY Molly reacts to bringing Swanson back to camp. If you fo it later, everyone in camp reacts o bringing him back. So that's a whole lot of dialogue that gets missed and that seems a loss and definitely not what Rockstar intended I'm guessing. Whyyyyy didn't they allow all those responses if you do his mission first! GRRRRR.

I always do Without Sin first, and I always get dialog from the other gang members as I carry Swanson through camp - offhand, I heard from Karen, Uncle, Molly, Dutch, John and Grimshaw on my last playthrough.    

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by BrandyNova

[Aldous Bramley]

Swanson could come back to camp several times + Arthur didn't react at all when Hosea told him 'Swanson found something...' but when you come to the mission, Arthur shouts like he hasn't seen Swanson in a long time and actually searching for him. I would like to imagine that Arthur didn't even remember about Swanson in the beginning of ch2.

I always play this mission in between of other things.

 

[Dan_1983]

5 hours ago, BrandyNova said:

I always do Without Sin first, and I always get dialog from the other gang members as I carry Swanson through camp - offhand, I heard from Karen, Uncle, Molly, Dutch, John and Grimshaw on my last playthrough.    

 

I hate it when Molly walks in front of you carrying Swanson to his tent. Ugh you're in my way lady lol.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Dan_1983

[EpiceneBlue]

22 hours ago, BrandyNova said:

I always do Without Sin first, and I always get dialog from the other gang members as I carry Swanson through camp - offhand, I heard from Karen, Uncle, Molly, Dutch, John and Grimshaw on my last playthrough.    

 

How odd. I have done it at least a dozen times and if ai do it first only Molly reacts every time.  Just tried it again and walked up to every camp member and only Molly reacted. Do you do it immediately first thing or do you wait until afternoon or the next day?

Edited April 6, 2023 by EpiceneBlue

[BrandyNova]

1 hour ago, EpiceneBlue said:

How odd. I have dine it at least a dozen times and if ai do it first only Molly reacts every time.  Just tried it again and walked up to every camp member and only Molly reacted. Do you do it immediately first thing or do you wait until afternoon or the next day?

I always do chores and hunting in the morning of the first day.  Then around 3 or 4pm I have Arthur "find" Swanson's morphine stash and figure I better go check on him.    So always on the first day, but I've left camp at least once to hunt.  Wonder if that makes the difference?

[EpiceneBlue]

1 hour ago, BrandyNova said:

I always do chores and hunting in the morning of the first day.  Then around 3 or 4pm I have Arthur "find" Swanson's morphine stash and figure I better go check on him.    So always on the first day, but I've left camp at least once to hunt.  Wonder if that makes the difference?

Interesting! I always just hang around camp until around like 2PM doing chores and setting my outfits and enjoying dialogue then go get Swanson because that mission always ends at 5PM no matter when you start it. I'll try getting a good distance away from camp in the morning and hunting or something and then stopping back in and then going to the mission. Fingers crossed because that would solve my whole dilemma with wanting to do that mission first! I have literal (diagnosed) OCD and it extends to missing as little dialogue as possible. I'm also writing my own extended Arhur's Journal and the dialogue for this factors into a whole storyline.

[EpiceneBlue]

11 hours ago, BrandyNova said:

I always do chores and hunting in the morning of the first day.  Then around 3 or 4pm I have Arthur "find" Swanson's morphine stash and figure I better go check on him.    So always on the first day, but I've left camp at least once to hunt.  Wonder if that makes the difference?

THANK YOU! IT WORKED! I went out and bagged that cougar near the brush fire and when I came back, all the camp dialogue had progressed to the next set and after I went and got Swanson, all the gang reaction dialogue to lugging him through camp was available. Woohoo!

[EpiceneBlue]

Yeah, I know, the endless chapter two order debate. Now that I've figured out how to get the dialogue from Without Sin so I can do that mission first and not feel weird about it, I am still irritated because it is impossible to do Polite Society next without getting yelled at by Hosea first. I would actually be fine RP wise with doing Hosea's hunting mission next after Without Sin and before Polite Society - if you think of the boys being down in Valentine as just a mention of where they are for the day and not an urgent mission Arthur doesn't know about. BUT, if you do Hosea's mission second - which also lets you end up with a horse at the stable for Polite Society if you do it right - then Hosea will not be at Sean's party and you miss his dialogues for that - unless you also do Spines of America before America at Rest and that just doesn't vibe with me. Argghhh. 

[Role-Play Walkthrough]

Strongly disagree. 

[BrandyNova]

23 hours ago, EpiceneBlue said:

THANK YOU! IT WORKED! I went out and bagged that cougar near the brush fire and when I came back, all the camp dialogue had progressed to the next set and after I went and got Swanson, all the gang reaction dialogue to lugging him through camp was available. Woohoo!

 

You are very welcome, glad it worked for ya! 

 

11 hours ago, EpiceneBlue said:

Yeah, I know, the endless chapter two order debate. Now that I've figured out how to get the dialogue from Without Sin so I can do that mission first and not feel weird about it, I am still irritated because it is impossible to do Polite Society next without getting yelled at by Hosea first. I would actually be fine RP wise with doing Hosea's hunting mission next after Without Sin and before Polite Society - if you think of the boys being down in Valentine as just a mention of where they are for the day and not an urgent mission Arthur doesn't know about. BUT, if you do Hosea's mission second - which also lets you end up with a horse at the stable for Polite Society if you do it right - then Hosea will not be at Sean's party and you miss his dialogues for that - unless you also do Spines of America before America at Rest and that just doesn't vibe with me. Argghhh. 

 

Oh yes, the endless Ch2 debate! 

I agree, I don't think Hosea's hunting mission fits well as the second mission after Without Sin for all sorts of reasons.  I find that I can avoid him pretty easily, so so I didn't have to listen to "Hey Arthur" repeatedly.  That's how I "justify" it in my own mind, until I'm ready to play it.   My last playthrough, I left it til Day 7, after Money Lending 1&2 and Paying a Social Call.   That worked out pretty well.  By that time, me and Arthur were ready for a break!   It was nice to get away with Hosea

I usually do Polite Society the day after Sean's party.  I like the additional dialogue as they are leaving, and I like Arthur snoozing in front of the general store, as if he is hung over/short on sleep after the party.

Edited April 8, 2023 by BrandyNova