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RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 - "Chronological" Mission Order


Spydr Webz
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luckycanadian95
8 hours ago, JB1982 said:

When I did An Honest Day's Labors, John said to Sadie that he had been doing some bounty hunting after their previous meeting. But I've done no bounty hunting as John. Is that just a glitch on my save game or is that happening to everyone else too? If it's happening to everyone else, where are you fitting in bounties in the Epilogue?

At what point in the mission does she say that? I was so sure that I heard that dialogue once but I could never find it again. I thought it could be evidence that John is meant to do some bounties on his own before An Honest Day's Labors.

@Looser3241 I'm pretty sure I tested having done bounties and not, and either way I wasn't getting the dialogue again. And the first time I heard it I thought I hadn't done any bounties yet. But I could be misremembering 😛

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Looser3241
57 minutes ago, luckycanadian95 said:

At what point in the mission does she say that? I was so sure that I heard that dialogue once but I could never find it again. I thought it could be evidence that John is meant to do some bounties on his own before An Honest Day's Labors.

@Looser3241 I'm pretty sure I tested having done bounties and not, and either way I wasn't getting the dialogue again. And the first time I heard it I thought I hadn't done any bounties yet. But I could be misremembering 😛

i'm going off of memory, but i'm almost sure, in the past, (+1 year ago) the dialogue only triggered if you did bounty missions in between missions. In my case, on xbox, now the dialogue triggers regardless.

 

I do remember that if you hadn't visited the tumbleweed sheriff, once sadie says you should visit him, john answers something like "maybe i'll pay him a visit" (don't remember the exact line, but it's something like this). I do know that in my last playthrough i didn't do any bounty missions prior to an honest day's labor, yet the dialogue still triggered

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jimmyoneshot

The dialogue during Honest Days Labor only seemed to happen for me if I did any bounties AS Arthur besides Good, Honest, Snake Oil however I might be misremembering. If so though then the game may be classing bounties that Arthur did as one's that John did. I think the reason it doesn't class Snake Oil as a bounty is that according to the game that mission actually ISN'T a bounty, it's an 'Optional Story Mission' the same as stuff like Help A Brother Out in Chapter 4 for example.

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jimmyoneshot

Another slight dialogue change if you do Money Lending IV - Gwyn Hughes after 8pm:-

 

 

Note that this is the only change. I tested out all the other dialogue such as antagonizing and charming people etc and aiming your gun at them before and after 8pm

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Dan_1983
10 hours ago, Looser3241 said:

Might be related to the latest patches, I think. It used to only trigger if you did bounty hunting between missions, now it always triggers. The bit that annoys me the most is when sadie mentions the tumbleweed sheriff and John says he met him, even though i avoid new austin like the plague 😂

 

Kinda sad how they keep breaking the story mode with every patch. The "cold weather" glitch made me not play the game for like 6 months

I didn't play the game during that glitch too. Too immersion breaking for me, especially in camps Chapter 3 onwards.

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Mr. Ando
On 3/13/2022 at 7:31 PM, Dan_1983 said:

I didn't play the game during that glitch too. Too immersion breaking for me, especially in camps Chapter 3 onwards.

Don't know that glitch

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Dan_1983
4 hours ago, Mr. Ando said:

Don't know that glitch

The cold weather dialogue glitch?

On 3/13/2022 at 10:22 PM, jimmyoneshot said:

The dialogue during Honest Days Labor only seemed to happen for me if I did any bounties AS Arthur besides Good, Honest, Snake Oil however I might be misremembering. If so though then the game may be classing bounties that Arthur did as one's that John did. I think the reason it doesn't class Snake Oil as a bounty is that according to the game that mission actually ISN'T a bounty, it's an 'Optional Story Mission' the same as stuff like Help A Brother Out in Chapter 4 for example.

I always do Anthony Foreman and Joshua Brown before An Honest Days Labor as John, so his dialogue about him doing bounty hunting makes sense.

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  • 2 weeks later...
cp1dell

Man, still going huh.

So what’s the consensus now? Have we settled on an order? Is there a post outlining the explanations/arguments for said order?

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SoulSurj
3 hours ago, cp1dell said:

Man, still going huh.

So what’s the consensus now? Have we settled on an order? Is there a post outlining the explanations/arguments for said order?

I don't think so but here's the story mission order I'll be using for the time being...

Chapter 1

Outlaws from the West

Enter, Pursued by a Memory

 

Mandatory Missions

 

Old Friends

The Aftermath of Genesis

 

Old Friends and Aftermath of Genesis still seem like they could go either way but this order adds more dialogue to both missions and gives you deadeye early.

 

Who the Hell is Leviticus Cornwall?

Eastward Bound

 

Mandatory Missions

 


Chapter 2

Americans at Rest

Who is Not without Sin

 

Mentioned by Hosea at the start of chapter 2.

 

Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego

 

Only mission that seems to fit at the end of day 1.

 

Has to be done before Polite Society because Arthur is allowed to keep a new horse after that mission and doesn't own more than one during this one.

 

Money Lending and Other Sins I-II

 

Mentioned by Hosea at the start of chapter 2

 

It seems like Dutch tells Arthur to collect debts when he returns to camp after finishing 3 missions so this should be done here

 

The First Shall Be Last

 

Has to take place after day 1 because the gang camps out and changes clothes.

 

Polite Society, Valentine Style

 

Social Call disappears after Sean's party and won't reappear until you leave camp so this is the only mission left to play.

 

Good, Honest, Snake Oil

 

Uncle mentions this in Polite Society.

 

Paying a Social Call

 

Has to be done before Spines because it introduces the ability to search chimneys for money.

 

The Spines of America

 

Has to be done before We Loved Once and True II because Arthur is told about Carmody Dell.

 

We Loved Once and True I

 

Grimshaw tells Arthur about Mary's letter when he returns to camp after Social Call but since Spines also needs to be done after that mission this comes after Spines.

 

Money Lending and Other Sins III

 

Cutscene plays as soon as We Loved Once and True I ends.

 

Camp dialogue with Dutch about Social Call is unlocked by playing We Loved Once and True I and this mission at this point in the story.

 

Pouring Forth Oil I-III

 

Grimshaw tells Arthur about PFO I after Money Lending and Other Sins III ends.

 

PFO II-III are unlocked by PFO I

 

A Quiet Time

 

Only story mission in the area after PFO I-III are complete.

 

We Loved Once and True II-III

 

Only story missions in the area after Quiet Time is complete.

 

A Fisher of Men

 

Camp dialogue with Dutch about PFO and Quiet Time is unlocked so Arthur needs a reason to go back to camp.

 

Blessed are the Meek?

Pouring Forth Oil – IV

 

Arthur mentions being able to take Micah on the heist so he has to be freed prior to PFO IV.

 

An American Pastoral Scene

The Sheep and the Goats

 

Dutch says Micah told him about Dewberry Creek so Micah should be picked up before the A Strange Kindness.

John needs time to find a job in Valentine after the train heist so Micah should be helped before The Sheep and the Goats.

 

A Strange Kindness

 

The gang leaves Horseshoe.


Chapter 3

The New South

 

Introduction to the area.

 

First mission that spawns in chapter 3.

 

Further Questions of Female Suffrage

 

Spawns right after Arthur returns to camp from The New South.

 

American Distillation

 

Dutch mentioned wanting to return to the sheriff's office after The New South.

 

An Honest Mistake

 

The characters mention some of the previous missions and arriving in the area recently.

 

The Course of True Love II–III

 

The badge from American Distillation can be used here and one of the guards will comment about Arthur being a deputy even if American Distillation isn't done, implying American Distillation should be completed before this.

 

Dialogue for these missions is included in Advertising, the New American Art so they should be played before that mission

 

Advertising, the New American Art

 

Unlocks The Fine Joys of Tobacco and Horse Flesh for Dinner.

 

The Fine Joys of Tobacco

Horse Flesh for Dinner

 

Playing Fine Joys of Tobacco before Horse Flesh for Dinner adds and completes dialogue for these missions. The alternative removes dialogue.

 

Preaching Forgiveness as He went

 

Arthur comments about searching for gold but he only ever does that in Horse Flesh for Dinner so that should take place before this mission.

 

Magicians for Sport

Friends in Very Low Places

Money Lending and Other Sins IV

 

Magicians for Sport unlocks Friends in Very Low Places

 

Arthur mentions that he hasn't thought about going back to Strawberry since freeing Micah from prison so it wouldn't make sense for Strauss to suggest sending Arthur debt collecting in that area prior to Friends in Very Low Places.

 

Sodom? Back to Gomorrah

 

Arthur is aware that Strauss has been debt collecting during this mission so it has to take place after Money Lending and Other Sins IV.

 

Blessed are the Peacemakers

A Short Walk in a Pretty Town

Blood Feuds, Ancient and Modern

The Battle of Shady Belle

 

These missions unlock each other.


Chapter 4

The Joys of Civilization

Angelo Bronte, a Man of Honor

 

Dutch takes Arthur to rescue Jack after The Battle of Shady Bell so these missions should be completed first.

 

No, No and Thrice, No

 

Dialogue is added to this mission after Jack's party.

 

The Gilded Cage

 

Mandatory story mission.

 

A Fine Night of Debauchery

 

Dutch says Trelawney is waiting for Arthur right after The Gilded Cage.

 

American Fathers I

 

Mentioned by Dutch right after The Gilded Cage.

 

Horsemen, Apocalypses

Urban Pleasures

 

Urban Pleasures is unlocked by Horsemen, Apocalypses.

 

American Fathers II

 

Dutch needs time to recover after Urban Pleasures and Eagle Flies is waiting for Arthur.

 

Money Lending and Other Sins V

 

Arthur references Dutch's plan about Tahiti so Money Lending and Other Sins V should take place some time after Urban Pleasures.

 

Country Pursuits

 

This could take place before Money Lending and Other Sins V because Dutch calls Arthur for this mission as soon as he arrives at camp but since Money Lending starts and ends at camp I chose to place this mission after.

 

Revenge is a Dish Best Eaten

Banking, the Old American Art

 

These missions unlock each other.


Chapter 5

Welcome to the New World

 

Mandatory Mission.

 

Savagery Unleashed

A Kind and Benevolent Despot

 

These missions can be played in either order but this order adds more dialogue.

 

Hell Hath No Fury

Paradise Mercifully Departed

Dear Uncle Tacitus

Fleeting Joy

 

These missions unlock each other.

 

A Fork in the Road

 

At the end of Fleeting Joy Sadie tells Arthur to meet her in San Denis.

 

Icarus and Friends

This mission is labeled as a chapter 6 mission but Arthur was already on his way to meet Sadie during a Fork in the Road.

 

That’s Murfree Country

 

Sadie needs time to get a boat to rescue John so this mission should be played before Visiting Hours.


Chapter 6

Visiting Hours

Just a Social Call

 

These missions unlock each other.

 

A Rage Unleashed

 

Arthur says the gang hasn't fought the army at this point but Micah mentions the gang has been fighting the Army during Delights of Van Horn so this mission should take place before Delights of Van Horn.

 

Archeology for Beginners

Honor, Amongst Thieves

 

Arthur says he'll talk to Rains Fall at the end of A Rage Unleashed

 

Arthur says he'll help Monroe, which causes Archeology for Beginners to unlock Honor, Amongst Thieves.

 

Goodbye, Dear Friend

The Fine Art of Conversation

 

Goodbye, Dear Friend is mandatory and ends at camp so The Fine Art of Conversation can take place right after.

 

Favored Sons

 

During A Rage Unleased Dutch tells Arthur to meet up with him after Colm is dealt with.

 

The King’s Son

 

 

Dutch tells Arthur to meet up with Charles at the end of Favored Sons.

 

The Delights of Van Horn

The Bridge to Nowhere

 

These missions unlock each other.

 

Money Lending and other Sins VI-VII

 

During A Rage Unleashed Arthur mentioned the gang hadn't fought the army so this mission should take place after A Rage Unleashed.

 

Bill is always present in this mission's final cutscene so The Delights of Van Horn should be finished prior to this mission.

 

Mrs. Sadie Adler, Widow I-II

My Last Boy

Our Best Selves

Red Dead Redemption

 

These missions unlock each other.

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jimmyoneshot
11 minutes ago, SoulSurj said:

Has to be done before Polite Society because Arthur is allowed to keep a new horse after that mission and doesn't own more than one during this one.

 

This is a very good point because it would be strange that Rockstar would assume that Arthur only has one horse during Exit Pursued when he could've potentially kept the one he borrowed in Valentine to chase Jimmy Brooks. Good list too.

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SoulSurj
1 hour ago, jimmyoneshot said:

 

This is a very good point because it would be strange that Rockstar would assume that Arthur only has one horse during Exit Pursued when he could've potentially kept the one he borrowed in Valentine to chase Jimmy Brooks. Good list too.

Thanks... I'm going to assume you don't remember bringing up this point about a month ago XD

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jimmyoneshot
1 hour ago, SoulSurj said:

Thanks... I'm going to assume you don't remember bringing up this point about a month ago XD

 

😂 Haha ye I remember. Still a great point though.

 

Another similar thing is the way that we can steal Wrobel's horse to pay off the debt even before the stable is unlocked meaning we could potentially keep that horse too.

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Dan_1983

I like Americans at Rest before Polite Society and Polite Society after Exit. However, my only problem is that 9 times out of 10 if you return to camp anytime before Polite Society, you usually get Mary-Beth approach you about running from a store in town because she was caught stealing.

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Sean800
On 3/26/2022 at 12:48 AM, SoulSurj said:

I don't think so but here's the story mission order I'll be using for the time being...

Chapter 1

Outlaws from the West

Enter, Pursued by a Memory

 

Mandatory Missions

 

Old Friends

The Aftermath of Genesis

 

Old Friends and Aftermath of Genesis still seem like they could go either way but this order adds more dialogue to both missions and gives you deadeye early.

 

Who the Hell is Leviticus Cornwall?

Eastward Bound

 

Mandatory Missions

 


Chapter 2

Americans at Rest

Who is Not without Sin

 

Mentioned by Hosea at the start of chapter 2.

 

Exit Pursued by a Bruised Ego

 

Only mission that seems to fit at the end of day 1.

 

Has to be done before Polite Society because Arthur is allowed to keep a new horse after that mission and doesn't own more than one during this one.

 

Money Lending and Other Sins I-II

 

Mentioned by Hosea at the start of chapter 2

 

It seems like Dutch tells Arthur to collect debts when he returns to camp after finishing 3 missions so this should be done here

 

The First Shall Be Last

 

Has to take place after day 1 because the gang camps out and changes clothes.

 

Polite Society, Valentine Style

 

Social Call disappears after Sean's party and won't reappear until you leave camp so this is the only mission left to play.

 

Good, Honest, Snake Oil

 

Uncle mentions this in Polite Society.

 

Paying a Social Call

 

Has to be done before Spines because it introduces the ability to search chimneys for money.

 

The Spines of America

 

Has to be done before We Loved Once and True II because Arthur is told about Carmody Dell.

 

We Loved Once and True I

 

Grimshaw tells Arthur about Mary's letter when he returns to camp after Social Call but since Spines also needs to be done after that mission this comes after Spines.

 

Money Lending and Other Sins III

 

Cutscene plays as soon as We Loved Once and True I ends.

 

Camp dialogue with Dutch about Social Call is unlocked by playing We Loved Once and True I and this mission at this point in the story.

 

Pouring Forth Oil I-III

 

Grimshaw tells Arthur about PFO I after Money Lending and Other Sins III ends.

 

PFO II-III are unlocked by PFO I

 

A Quiet Time

 

Only story mission in the area after PFO I-III are complete.

 

We Loved Once and True II-III

 

Only story missions in the area after Quiet Time is complete.

 

A Fisher of Men

 

Camp dialogue with Dutch about PFO and Quiet Time is unlocked so Arthur needs a reason to go back to camp.

 

Blessed are the Meek?

Pouring Forth Oil – IV

 

Arthur mentions being able to take Micah on the heist so he has to be freed prior to PFO IV.

 

An American Pastoral Scene

The Sheep and the Goats

 

Dutch says Micah told him about Dewberry Creek so Micah should be picked up before the A Strange Kindness.

John needs time to find a job in Valentine after the train heist so Micah should be helped before The Sheep and the Goats.

 

A Strange Kindness

 

The gang leaves Horseshoe.


Chapter 3

The New South

 

Introduction to the area.

 

First mission that spawns in chapter 3.

 

Further Questions of Female Suffrage

 

Spawns right after Arthur returns to camp from The New South.

 

American Distillation

 

Dutch mentioned wanting to return to the sheriff's office after The New South.

 

An Honest Mistake

 

The characters mention some of the previous missions and arriving in the area recently.

 

The Course of True Love II–III

 

The badge from American Distillation can be used here and one of the guards will comment about Arthur being a deputy even if American Distillation isn't done, implying American Distillation should be completed before this.

 

Dialogue for these missions is included in Advertising, the New American Art so they should be played before that mission

 

Advertising, the New American Art

 

Unlocks The Fine Joys of Tobacco and Horse Flesh for Dinner.

 

The Fine Joys of Tobacco

Horse Flesh for Dinner

 

Playing Fine Joys of Tobacco before Horse Flesh for Dinner adds and completes dialogue for these missions. The alternative removes dialogue.

 

Preaching Forgiveness as He went

 

Arthur comments about searching for gold but he only ever does that in Horse Flesh for Dinner so that should take place before this mission.

 

Magicians for Sport

Friends in Very Low Places

Money Lending and Other Sins IV

 

Magicians for Sport unlocks Friends in Very Low Places

 

Arthur mentions that he hasn't thought about going back to Strawberry since freeing Micah from prison so it wouldn't make sense for Strauss to suggest sending Arthur debt collecting in that area prior to Friends in Very Low Places.

 

Sodom? Back to Gomorrah

 

Arthur is aware that Strauss has been debt collecting during this mission so it has to take place after Money Lending and Other Sins IV.

 

Blessed are the Peacemakers

A Short Walk in a Pretty Town

Blood Feuds, Ancient and Modern

The Battle of Shady Belle

 

These missions unlock each other.


Chapter 4

The Joys of Civilization

Angelo Bronte, a Man of Honor

 

Dutch takes Arthur to rescue Jack after The Battle of Shady Bell so these missions should be completed first.

 

No, No and Thrice, No

 

Dialogue is added to this mission after Jack's party.

 

The Gilded Cage

 

Mandatory story mission.

 

A Fine Night of Debauchery

 

Dutch says Trelawney is waiting for Arthur right after The Gilded Cage.

 

American Fathers I

 

Mentioned by Dutch right after The Gilded Cage.

 

Horsemen, Apocalypses

Urban Pleasures

 

Urban Pleasures is unlocked by Horsemen, Apocalypses.

 

American Fathers II

 

Dutch needs time to recover after Urban Pleasures and Eagle Flies is waiting for Arthur.

 

Money Lending and Other Sins V

 

Arthur references Dutch's plan about Tahiti so Money Lending and Other Sins V should take place some time after Urban Pleasures.

 

Country Pursuits

 

This could take place before Money Lending and Other Sins V because Dutch calls Arthur for this mission as soon as he arrives at camp but since Money Lending starts and ends at camp I chose to place this mission after.

 

Revenge is a Dish Best Eaten

Banking, the Old American Art

 

These missions unlock each other.


Chapter 5

Welcome to the New World

 

Mandatory Mission.

 

Savagery Unleashed

A Kind and Benevolent Despot

 

These missions can be played in either order but this order adds more dialogue.

 

Hell Hath No Fury

Paradise Mercifully Departed

Dear Uncle Tacitus

Fleeting Joy

 

These missions unlock each other.

 

A Fork in the Road

 

At the end of Fleeting Joy Sadie tells Arthur to meet her in San Denis.

 

Icarus and Friends

This mission is labeled as a chapter 6 mission but Arthur was already on his way to meet Sadie during a Fork in the Road.

 

That’s Murfree Country

 

Sadie needs time to get a boat to rescue John so this mission should be played before Visiting Hours.


Chapter 6

Visiting Hours

Just a Social Call

 

These missions unlock each other.

 

A Rage Unleashed

 

Arthur says the gang hasn't fought the army at this point but Micah mentions the gang has been fighting the Army during Delights of Van Horn so this mission should take place before Delights of Van Horn.

 

Archeology for Beginners

Honor, Amongst Thieves

 

Arthur says he'll talk to Rains Fall at the end of A Rage Unleashed

 

Arthur says he'll help Monroe, which causes Archeology for Beginners to unlock Honor, Amongst Thieves.

 

Goodbye, Dear Friend

The Fine Art of Conversation

 

Goodbye, Dear Friend is mandatory and ends at camp so The Fine Art of Conversation can take place right after.

 

Favored Sons

 

During A Rage Unleased Dutch tells Arthur to meet up with him after Colm is dealt with.

 

The King’s Son

 

 

Dutch tells Arthur to meet up with Charles at the end of Favored Sons.

 

The Delights of Van Horn

The Bridge to Nowhere

 

These missions unlock each other.

 

Money Lending and other Sins VI-VII

 

During A Rage Unleashed Arthur mentioned the gang hadn't fought the army so this mission should take place after A Rage Unleashed.

 

Bill is always present in this mission's final cutscene so The Delights of Van Horn should be finished prior to this mission.

 

Mrs. Sadie Adler, Widow I-II

My Last Boy

Our Best Selves

Red Dead Redemption

 

These missions unlock each other.

 

- You mean the Standardbred you steal to chase Brooks? Well, I always give it back to the owner. I don't think Hosea's hunt trip should be done before rescuing Sean. It seems absurd having hunting trips while your fellow gang member's life is at risk.

 

-  But Arthur also gets told to go at the Gray's place. Twice if I remember right. So I think the Beau branch can be done first, also.

 

- Well, Holmes is only found near Strawberry. Arthur will stay away from the town itself but nobody is looking for him in Big Valley. That said, the game wants you to sell the pelt there, so you have a point.

 

- Dutch first talks about Tahiti way sooner than that, at Jack's party. I guess this Strauss mission can be done earlier, it's not a troublesome one and Catfish Jackson's pretty near camp.

 

- Well as you said it's very complicated to avoid Dutch's screams at that point. :D

 

 

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Mr. Ando

Do you guys know if I do the event at the Saint Denis tavern with Arthur you can also get it later with John? I need it to complete the Survivalist challenge 7

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SoulSurj
36 minutes ago, Sean800 said:

 

- You mean the Standardbred you steal to chase Brooks? Well, I always give it back to the owner.

So do I but the option to keep that horse is there and the option to get a horse from Good Honest Snake Oil is also a factor.

36 minutes ago, Sean800 said:

I don't think Hosea's hunt trip should be done before rescuing Sean. It seems absurd having hunting trips while your fellow gang member's life is at risk.

I agree... I only placed Exit Pursued there because we know Arthur waits until after the first day to rescue Sean and it's the only mission that stops Arthur from leaving camp to go rescue Sean right away.

36 minutes ago, Sean800 said:

-  But Arthur also gets told to go at the Gray's place. Twice if I remember right. So I think the Beau branch can be done first, also.

Yeah but then there's no reason to use the badge and being called a deputy by the guards won't make sense.

36 minutes ago, Sean800 said:

- Dutch first talks about Tahiti way sooner than that, at Jack's party. I guess this Strauss mission can be done earlier, it's not a troublesome one and Catfish Jackson's pretty near camp.

I'm aware Dutch mentions Tahiti at Jack's party but in terms of the story it seems as though Arthur isn't aware of the plan until Urban Pleasures. Not to mention Strauss says the gang is getting ready to leave the area so they have to have that boat Dutch mentioned by the time ML starts.

36 minutes ago, Sean800 said:

- Well as you said it's very complicated to avoid Dutch's screams at that point. :D

 

 

I don't think it's too big of a deal to avoid Dutch here because Strauss's mission ends around where Dutch is anyway.

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Dan_1983

I always collect Strauss debt in Chapter 4 after Country Pursuits as I always go back to camp to eat anyhow and Catfish Jackson's isn't far.

 

The gang can wait a little in Lagras before we storm Bronte's mansion, plus that's a night mission.

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jimmyoneshot
On 3/27/2022 at 8:52 PM, Sean800 said:

- Dutch first talks about Tahiti way sooner than that, at Jack's party. I guess this Strauss mission can be done earlier, it's not a troublesome one and Catfish Jackson's pretty near camp.

Ye the thing with this is that during Money Lending V opening cutscene Arthur angrily and sarcastically says to Strauss "Dutch tells me we're gonna be ranchers" (referring to the gang going to Australia or Tahiti) but, although Dutch does mention Tahiti very early in the Chapter, the first time he mentions the ranchers/farmers part is actually at the start of Country Pursuits in the opening cutscene with Hosea when he says "Before the year is out we are gonna be harvesting mangoes in Tahiti. Farmers. But we need seed capital and we need to leave".

 

It seems that this is what Arthur is referring to, which is why I think it fits better after Country Pursuits. Also note that Arthur seems very pissed off during the opening cutscene of Money Lending V which fits in very well too as he is at odds with Dutch late on in the Chapter and starting to seriously question things.

 

With this in mind though it's strange that they allowed this mission to be done very early as it actually unlocks right after Jack's party ha. I suspect it was a mission that originally unlocked later but got moved forward a bit.

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SoulSurj
On 3/30/2022 at 11:35 AM, Dan_1983 said:

I always collect Strauss debt in Chapter 4 after Country Pursuits as I always go back to camp to eat anyhow and Catfish Jackson's isn't far.

 

The gang can wait a little in Lagras before we storm Bronte's mansion, plus that's a night mission.

Yeah, that's probably where it should be since I've tried playing it before the bank heist and it doesn't fit there. I'll just edit it on the list and probably place some other side missions there as well.

22 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

With this in mind though it's strange that they allowed this mission to be done very early as it actually unlocks right after Jack's party ha. I suspect it was a mission that originally unlocked later but got moved forward a bit.

they do the same with the others. ML IV and up aren't required story missions so they probably didn't care where they were placed.

Edited by SoulSurj
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LucidLocomotive

I’m wondering about the events and activities that take place at the same location. For example catfish Jackson’s has a home robbery as well as a money lending. Which one should be done first?

 

also, there is the cave in Elysian pool.

My understanding is that there are multiple events that lead here. There is the dreamcatcher puzzle, which ends with us going there and reaching into the buffalo eye for the ancient arrowhead. Then there is the treasure hunt, which leads us here to get 4 gold bars. Then there is also the side mission involving the poisoning of butcher creek, which involves exploring this cave. 
 

Are there any more reasons to go besides these? And then also, can more than one of these be done at a time? Either way, which order of events makes the most sense? Does Arthur act like he’s never been there in the poison mission? How many times do you think he logically went there?

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SoulSurj
2 hours ago, LucidLocomotive said:

I’m wondering about the events and activities that take place at the same location. For example catfish Jackson’s has a home robbery as well as a money lending. Which one should be done first?

 

also, there is the cave in Elysian pool.

My understanding is that there are multiple events that lead here. There is the dreamcatcher puzzle, which ends with us going there and reaching into the buffalo eye for the ancient arrowhead. Then there is the treasure hunt, which leads us here to get 4 gold bars. Then there is also the side mission involving the poisoning of butcher creek, which involves exploring this cave. 
 

Are there any more reasons to go besides these? And then also, can more than one of these be done at a time? Either way, which order of events makes the most sense? Does Arthur act like he’s never been there in the poison mission? How many times do you think he logically went there?

It depends on how and when the story or side mission happens...

 

In Wisdom of the Elders, Arthur is told about the cave and has no clue how to get out so we can assume he never went there before.

 

Money Lending should probably be done before the robbery since I'm pretty sure you need the father alive to complete that mission and you can permanently kill him during the robbery.

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LucidLocomotive
5 hours ago, SoulSurj said:

It depends on how and when the story or side mission happens...

 

In Wisdom of the Elders, Arthur is told about the cave and has no clue how to get out so we can assume he never went there before.

 

Money Lending should probably be done before the robbery since I'm pretty sure you need the father alive to complete that mission and you can permanently kill him during the robbery.

Okay so you don’t find all the dream catchers and the treasures until chapter 6? It seems the arrowhead would have less of a use by then. 

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LucidLocomotive

From what ive read, this is very controversial, but I always thought it was intended to do who is not without sin after quiet time. The reason is, when you escape the cops, you wake up a stones throw from the train station. So my Arthur, with a raging hangover, always wakes up and looks over to see it and heads over there, and he is impatient and irritable with the poker players and Swanson because he's hungover. But maybe, thats supposed to be the time when you go to start the cigarette card mission instead?

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SoulSurj
5 hours ago, LucidLocomotive said:

Okay so you don’t find all the dream catchers and the treasures until chapter 6? It seems the arrowhead would have less of a use by then. 

I guess it depends on how much hunting is saved up for the last chapter.

4 hours ago, LucidLocomotive said:

From what ive read, this is very controversial, but I always thought it was intended to do who is not without sin after quiet time. The reason is, when you escape the cops, you wake up a stones throw from the train station. So my Arthur, with a raging hangover, always wakes up and looks over to see it and heads over there, and he is impatient and irritable with the poker players and Swanson because he's hungover. But maybe, thats supposed to be the time when you go to start the cigarette card mission instead?

I've actually tried Who is Not Without Sin after A Quiet Time before but I figured out it didn't work because Arthur's horse is needed to finish Who is Not Without Sin and it's in Valentine after A Quiet Time. If I remember correctly, the game spawns the horse outside the station but that makes no sense in the story. You might be right about Smoking and Other Hobbies though. I'm looking into side missions now but they're hard to place so this comment might help.

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LucidLocomotive
45 minutes ago, SoulSurj said:

I guess it depends on how much hunting is saved up for the last chapter.

I've actually tried Who is Not Without Sin after A Quiet Time before but I figured out it didn't work because Arthur's horse is needed to finish Who is Not Without Sin and it's in Valentine after A Quiet Time. If I remember correctly, the game spawns the horse outside the station but that makes no sense in the story. You might be right about Smoking and Other Hobbies though. I'm looking into side missions now but they're hard to place so this comment might help.

oh wow youre right! I didnt even realize my horse teleported because I must've just got sucked into the mission. please let me know if smoking and other hobbies works after quiet time (successful escape version). Walking to the train station definitely seems intended in some sense because its sort of the main focal point once you wake up next to the tree. I guess Arthur would be walking there to play a quick game of poker though, because he doesnt know he has a random stranger side mission waiting for him there, obviously. Another issue though is whether or not escaping is even canon. Clearly its the rewarded way to finish the mission, but getting caught does provide a long ass extra cutscene with further character relations. Im on the fence about that one.

 

There are other gold medal objectives in the game which are clearly not canon/naturally intended. One big example is a short walk in a pretty town. The mission introduces explosive shotgun shells by having a double barrel shotgun loaded with them leaning against the general store wall right before you go inside. You even get a unique special pop-up window saying "this weapon is loaded with explosive rounds" or something like that. Yet, one of the gold medal objectives is to only use sidearms. Another obvious example would be the timed ones. You can only get gold on "Old Friends" if you skip cutscenes and constantly make Arthur sprint like a video game character basically. However I tend to lean towards the canon approach to missions involving achieving all the gold objectives that can be done without breaking the natural flow of the mission. So like the gilded cage, it seems obvious that getting all of the special interactions is canonical

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jimmyoneshot
8 hours ago, LucidLocomotive said:

From what ive read, this is very controversial, but I always thought it was intended to do who is not without sin after quiet time. The reason is, when you escape the cops, you wake up a stones throw from the train station. So my Arthur, with a raging hangover, always wakes up and looks over to see it and heads over there, and he is impatient and irritable with the poker players and Swanson because he's hungover. But maybe, thats supposed to be the time when you go to start the cigarette card mission instead?

Just a quick note on this but it seems that for certain missions there are choices that the game seems to class as 'canon' based on dialogue about them later on which never changes regardless of which choice you made in the mission, for example after Spines Of America, even if you didn't do the mission during the day which means that Hosea didn't distract the father and son with a back massage while Arthur robbed the house, Arthur STILL acts as though he did when interacting with Hosea at camp and says "I think my back needs some working over".

 

I think during Quiet Time the likely outcome is that both Arthur and Lenny got caught rather than Arthur escaping because during Quiet Time we see Lenny getting arrested yet when interacting with Lenny after this in camp Arthur doesn't even ask how he got free etc and he acts much more like he was arrested too. Also during the mission Preaching Forgiveness in Chapter 3 if you haven't done Female Suffrage or American Distillation yet Lenny and Arthur will have a unique conversation where they talk about being locked up in a jail cell and how the law in Valentine were pretty harmless which would suggest Arthur knows about Lenny being locked up likely because he was locked up with him (starts at 1:56) :-

 

 

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LucidLocomotive
20 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Just a quick note on this but it seems that for certain missions there are choices that the game seems to class as 'canon' based on dialogue about them later on which never changes regardless of which choice you made in the mission, for example after Spines Of America, even if you didn't do the mission during the day which means that Hosea didn't distract the father and son with a back massage while Arthur robbed the house, Arthur STILL acts as though he did when interacting with Hosea at camp and says "I think my back needs some working over".

 

I think during Quiet Time the likely outcome is that both Arthur and Lenny got caught rather than Arthur escaping because during Quiet Time we see Lenny getting arrested yet when interacting with Lenny after this in camp Arthur doesn't even ask how he got free etc and he acts much more like he was arrested too. Also during the mission Preaching Forgiveness in Chapter 3 if you haven't done Female Suffrage or American Distillation yet Lenny and Arthur will have a unique conversation where they talk about being locked up in a jail cell and how the law in Valentine were pretty harmless which would suggest Arthur knows about Lenny being locked up likely because he was locked up with him (starts at 1:56) :-

 

 

Thanks for this info! I actually made a thread a couple days ago specifically asking if anyone has a list of all the canon choices that are confirmed by dialogue at a later time. One example of this is the newspaper will always say that the valentine bank safes were blown with dynamite, even if you choose to crack them. I didn’t get any really helpful replies to the thread. Maybe you could help. Is there a comprehensive list somewhere of all of these ?

 

also a small note about the conversation with Lenny. Does that mission take place in Lemoyne? If so, I think it could be Arthur noting that it would have been worse for Lenny there than in valentine, due to the racism in the area. 

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jimmyoneshot
30 minutes ago, LucidLocomotive said:

Thanks for this info! I actually made a thread a couple days ago specifically asking if anyone has a list of all the canon choices that are confirmed by dialogue at a later time. One example of this is the newspaper will always say that the valentine bank safes were blown with dynamite, even if you choose to crack them. I didn’t get any really helpful replies to the thread. Maybe you could help. Is there a comprehensive list somewhere of all of these ?

 

also a small note about the conversation with Lenny. Does that mission take place in Lemoyne? If so, I think it could be Arthur noting that it would have been worse for Lenny there than in valentine, due to the racism in the area. 

No problem Lucid. Are you sure about the newspaper always saying they were blown? I always thought it changed based on which option you chose but I'd have to double-check myself. However I do know that no matter which option you chose to deal with the safes that during the mission Battle Of Shady Belle at the end of Chapter 3 Arthur always mentions the dynamite to John which implies that he likely used it. I made a video of the conversation here and this was after me cracking the safes and not blowing them up:-

 

 

Regarding likely 'canon' choices Off the top of my head:-

  • A Quiet Time - Both Arthur and Lenny got arrested as spoke about above
  • Exit Pursued - Arthur and Hosea split up because during Spins Of America Arthur says "clearly you've recovered from YOUR bear encounter" and jokes about the encounter at the end of the mission too which implies that Hosea was alone when faced by the bear otherwise technically they would've BOTH had the bear encounter
  • Spines - Robbed in day time as spoke about above plus the name of the mission "Spines" is a play on words which suggests Hosea used the back massage distraction
  • New South - Arthur likely went fishing because during Honest Mistake Uncle says "while you boys been off fishing or playing lawman..." which likely refers to fishing in the mission New South and helping the law in both New South and/or American Distillation
  • Preaching Forgiveness - Lenny sent in to "Charm" the raiders first because the name of the mission suggests Lenny was "preaching" and if you speak to Lenny during the ride to Valentine in Sodom several times he talks about the events of preaching and says "those boys would've liked nothing better than to string me up" to which Arthur replies "that weren't gonna happen" which suggests Arthur sent Lenny in to charm them
  • Sodom - Blew up safes as mentioned above
  • A Rage Unleashed and Archeology for Beginners - During Fine Art Of Conversation when Arthur is listening in from the tent on the 2 soldiers talking they mention how the vaccines were stolen which Arthur does for Monroe during the mission Honor Amongst Thieves. However to unlock this mission you must first accept when Charles asks you to speak to Rains Fall at the end of A Rage Unleashed which unlocks Archeology for Beginners and during Arcology For Beginners you must accept Monroe's request for help which unlocks Honor Amongst Thieves

I think that's it regarding actual in-mission choices where dialogue suggests which option was taken and the rest are up for interpretation.

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LucidLocomotive
3 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

No problem Lucid. Are you sure about the newspaper always saying they were blown? I always thought it changed based on which option you chose but I'd have to double-check myself. However I do know that no matter which option you chose to deal with the safes that during the mission Battle Of Shady Belle at the end of Chapter 3 Arthur always mentions the dynamite to John which implies that he likely used it. I made a video of the conversation here and this was after me cracking the safes and not blowing them up:-

 

 

Regarding likely 'canon' choices Off the top of my head:-

  • A Quiet Time - Both Arthur and Lenny got arrested as spoke about above
  • Exit Pursued - Arthur and Hosea split up because during Spins Of America Arthur says "clearly you've recovered from YOUR bear encounter" and jokes about the encounter at the end of the mission too which implies that Hosea was alone when faced by the bear otherwise technically they would've BOTH had the bear encounter
  • Spines - Robbed in day time as spoke about above plus the name of the mission "Spines" is a play on words which suggests Hosea used the back massage distraction
  • New South - Arthur likely went fishing because during Honest Mistake Uncle says "while you boys been off fishing or playing lawman..." which likely refers to fishing in the mission New South and helping the law in both New South and/or American Distillation
  • Preaching Forgiveness - Lenny sent in to "Charm" the raiders first because the name of the mission suggests Lenny was "preaching" and if you speak to Lenny during the ride to Valentine in Sodom several times he talks about the events of preaching and says "those boys would've liked nothing better than to string me up" to which Arthur replies "that weren't gonna happen" which suggests Arthur sent Lenny in to charm them
  • Sodom - Blew up safes as mentioned above
  • A Rage Unleashed and Archeology for Beginners - During Fine Art Of Conversation when Arthur is listening in from the tent on the 2 soldiers talking they mention how the vaccines were stolen which Arthur does for Monroe during the mission Honor Amongst Thieves. However to unlock this mission you must first accept when Charles asks you to speak to Rains Fall at the end of A Rage Unleashed which unlocks Archeology for Beginners and during Arcology For Beginners you must accept Monroe's request for help which unlocks Honor Amongst Thieves

I think that's it regarding actual in-mission choices where dialogue suggests which option was taken and the rest are up for interpretation.

About the Valentine robbery, I don’t know if I’ve read that actually. All I know is that in my first playthrough I cracked the safes, but the newspaper said I used dynamite. I guess I assumed this would always happen but I guess it’s also possible that my game was bugged, or maybe i loaded a checkpoint or something after the robbery portion and that messed something up.  It would be interesting to confirm whether this will always happen. However I did find this Reddit post of someone else having the same thing happen 

 

also, there is another thing that I believe has been mentioned in this thread before. John tells Sadie he’s been doing some bounty hunting in between two bounties you do with her, which means he probably did the Blackwater bounties during this time. He says it even if you don’t (most likely caused by doing them as Arthur as discussed in another page of this thread)

 

im on mobile and I accidentally put that link to Reddit twice. The link turned into a picture of the page in my text box here and it doesn’t seem possible for me to delete it on my iPhone browser. So that’s why the link is also there below. 

 

 

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Looser3241
2 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

 

  • Exit Pursued - Arthur and Hosea split up because during Spins Of America Arthur says "clearly you've recovered from YOUR bear encounter" and jokes about the encounter at the end of the mission too which implies that Hosea was alone when faced by the bear otherwise technically they would've BOTH had the bear encounter

Fine work once again, Jimmy! 

Idk about Exit Pursued. Both of them had the bear encounter, however, Hosea chose to run and hide on both instances, while Arthur decided to face it. Then again, we're looking for small things that might indicate a canon decision, so this might be good enough. I still think it's a bit of a stretch.

 

2 hours ago, LucidLocomotive said:

also, there is another thing that I believe has been mentioned in this thread before. John tells Sadie he’s been doing some bounty hunting in between two bounties you do with her, which means he probably did the Blackwater bounties during this time. He says it even if you don’t (most likely caused by doing them as Arthur as discussed in another page of this thread)


I'm pretty sure that this is a bug that didn't use to happen. Regardless, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think John would be doing some bounty hunting on the side. He needs A LOT of money to pay for his debts.

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