RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 - "Chronological" Mission Order

[Dan_1983]

I always get Susan telling me about Hosea at Emerald Ranch when I return from hunting with him because I stay behind and kill the bear and I also make a couple of stops on my way to camp (trapper, Scarlett Meadows stable, rundown shack near the stable, dinosaur bones lady). Also when I hunt food before camp, I bring it in as pelts and meat and not a carcass. Susan is always there ready to tell me about Hosea.

[jimmyoneshot]

4 hours ago, Dan_1983 said:

I always get Susan telling me about Hosea at Emerald Ranch when I return from hunting with him because I stay behind and kill the bear and I also make a couple of stops on my way to camp (trapper, Scarlett Meadows stable, rundown shack near the stable, dinosaur bones lady). Also when I hunt food before camp, I bring it in as pelts and meat and not a carcass. Susan is always there ready to tell me about Hosea.

Ye same. Unless this stupid bug happens where she gets stuck.

 

The issue was for some people she was apparently approaching about the letter rather than Hosea which shouldn't happen because if you've done Exit Pursued and Social Call the Hosea reminder should always override the letter one in my experience. So I suspect this bug might be triggering for people where she just gets stuck and doesn't mention Spines maybe.

 

 

Best thing to do is probably make a savegame before doing these missions and then replaying them if the bug occurs.

[CainTheWanderer]

Could someone please link me @jimmyoneshot most recent order ???  Using it alongside @Sutliff 100% craftables/encounters list would make for a great playthrough... Thanks

[jimmyoneshot]

32 minutes ago, CainTheWanderer said:

Could someone please link me @jimmyoneshot most recent order ???  Using it alongside @Sutliff 100% craftables/encounters list would make for a great playthrough... Thanks

Here  you go Cain. This is my latest one that I usually follow:-

 

Spoiler

CHAPTER 1

- Outlaws From The West
- Enter, Pursued By A Memory
---------------------------------------
- The Aftermath of Genesis
- Old Friends
---------------------------------------
- Who The Hell Is Leviticus Cornwall?
---------------------------------------
- Eastward Bound

 

CHAPTER 2

- Americans At Rest

- Who Is Not Without Sin
---------------------------------------
- First Shall Be The Last
---------------------------------------
- Polite Society Valentine Style ( After 1pm )
---------------------------------------
- Money Lending and Other Sins 1 - 2
---------------------------------------
- Good Honest Snake Oil
---------------------------------------
- Exit Pursued ( Return )
---------------------------------------
- Paying A Social Call
- ( Grimshaw reminder about Spines Of America )
- < Charles - Hunting >
- Spines of America (Return with Hosea) (After 8 - 9pm and wait until Day)
---------------------------------------
- < Bounty Hunting - Ellie Ann Swan >
- ( Grimshaw reminder about We Loved Once And True 1 )
- A Quiet Time
---------------------------------------
- [ Valentine Dr Robbery ]
- Blessed Are The Meek
- ( camp overnight until Noon then escape from Bounty Hunters if they appear )
---------------------------------------
- < Lenny - FFF >
- We Loved Once and True 1
- Money Lending and Other Sins 3
- Pouring Forth Oil 1
- < Javier - Home Robbery >
- ( camp overnight )
---------------------------------------
- We Loved Once and True 2 - 3
- *Pouring Forth Oil 2 ( Skips at this point )
- ( Stay in hotel overnight )
---------------------------------------
- Pouring Forth Oil 3
- Fisher Of Men
- Pouring Forth Oil 4
---------------------------------------
- American Pastoral Scene
- Sheep and the Goats
- ( camp overnight )
---------------------------------------
- Strange Kindness

 

CHAPTER 3

- The New South
- Further Questions Of Female Suffrage (Visit Butcher to waste time on way back from post office and return after 8pm)
- < Money Lending And Other Sins 4 - Cutscene>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- American Distillation
- < Tilly - Dominoes >
- < Javier - Fishing >
- An Honest Mistake
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Sean - Home Robbery >
- The Course Of True Love 1 - 2
- < Micah - Five Finger Fillet >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Kieran - Fishing >
- The Course Of True Love 3
- Advertising, The New American Art 1 - 2
- The Fine Joys Of Tobacco
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Horse Flesh For Dinner
- Preaching Forgiveness As He Went
- Magicians For Sport
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Money Lending And Other Sins IV - Gwyn Hughes >
- Friends In Very Low Places
- < Sean - Coach Robbery >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Money Lending And Other Sins 4 - Winton Holmes >
- < Hector - Coach Robbery 1 >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Sodom? Back To Gomorrah
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Alden - Coach Robbery 1 >
- < Bill - Coach Robbery >
- ( Camp overnight OR Return to camp )
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Blessed Are The Peacemakers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- A Short Walk In A Pretty Town
- Blood Feuds, Ancient And Modern
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- The Battle Of Shady Belle

 

CHAPTER 4

- The Joys Of Civilization
- Angelo Bronte A Man Of Honor
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Fatherhood and Other Dreams 1 >
- < Help A Brother Out >
- < Fatherhood And Other Dreams 2 >
- < Uncle - Rustling >
- ( Camp until noon )
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- No, No and Thrice No
- < Charles - Bank Robbery >
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ( Sell horse from No, No and Thrice No or keep it and sell your old one )
- < Brothers And Sisters One And All >
- < Lenny - Coach Robbery >
- < Pearson - Hunting >
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Gilded Cage
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- American Fathers 1
- Fine Night of Debauchery
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Micah - Coach Robbery >
- Horsemen Apocalypses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Urban Pleasures
- American Fathers 2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Country Pursuits
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Money Lending and Other Sins 4 >
- Revenge is a Dish Best Eaten
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Banking The Old American Art

 

CHAPTER 5

- Welcome to the New World
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Savagery Unleashed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- A Kind and Benevolent Despot
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Hell Hath No Fury
- Paradise Mercifully Departed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Dear Uncle Tacitus
- Fleeting Joy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- A Fork in the Road
- Icarus and Friends
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- That’s Murfree Country

 

CHAPTER 6

- Dear Uncle Tacitus
- Fleeting Joy
- Fork In The Road
- Icarus and Friends
- That's Murfree Country
------------------------------------------
- ( Sell/stable horse from Dear Uncle Tacitus at Van Horn Stables or keep it and sell/stable your old one )
- Visiting Hours
- Just A Social Call
- < Widow of Willard's Rest 1 >
- < The Course of True Love 4 (Read Letter) >
- Rage Unleashed
------------------------------------------
- < Wisdom of The Elders 1 >
- Archaeology For Beginners
------------------------------------------
- < The Veteran 1 >
- Honor Amongst Thieves
- < Of Men and Angels >
- Goodbye Dear Friend
- (time seems to go overnight here until Arthur arrives at camp the next day)
------------------------------------------
- Fine Art of Conversation
- ( Camp until morning )
------------------------------------------
- < The Course of True Love 5 >
- Favored Sons
------------------------------------------
- King's Son
------------------------------------------
- Delights Of Van Horn
- < Widow of Willard's Rest 2 >
- < The Veteran 2 >
- Bridge To Nowhere
- ( Camp until morning )
------------------------------------------
- ( Cleet and Joe appear in camp here )
- < Money Lending and Other Sins 6 >
- < Money Lending and Other Sins 6 - J John Weathers >
- < Money Lending and Other Sins 6 - Arthur Londonderry  >
- < Money Lending and Other Sins 7 >
------------------------------------------
- < Do Not Seek Absolution 1 >
- < The Veteran 3 >
- < Wisdom of The Elders 2 >
------------------------------------------
- < Do Not Seek Absolution 2 >
- < Wisdom of The Elders 3 - 4 >
- Mrs Sadie Adler Widow 1
------------------------------------------
- Mrs Sadie Adler Widow 2
- < The Veteran 4 >
- ( Sell/stable your old horse at Van Horn Stables because you now have Buell )
- < Widow of Willard's Rest 3 >
- My Last Boy
------------------------------------------
- Our Best Selves
- Red Dead Redemption

 

EPILOGUE

 

- The Wheel
--------------------------------------------------
- Simple Pleasures
--------------------------------------------------
- Fatherhood For Beginners
--------------------------------------------------
- Farming For Beginners
- Old Habits
--------------------------------------------------
- Jim Milton Rides, Again
--------------------------------------------------
- Fatherhood For Idiots
--------------------------------------------------
- Motherhood
--------------------------------------------------
- The Landowning Classes
- Home of The Gentry
--------------------------------------------------
- Gainful Employment
- (Camp overnight)
--------------------------------------------------
- Bare Knuckle Friendships
- Home Improvement For Beginners
- An Honest Day's Labors
- (Sleep in Blackwater hotel until morning)
--------------------------------------------------
- The Tool Box
--------------------------------------------------
- A New Jerusalem
--------------------------------------------------
- A Quick Favor For An Old Friend
--------------------------------------------------
- Uncle's Bad Day
--------------------------------------------------
- A Really Big Bastard
- Trying Again
--------------------------------------------------
- A New Future Imagined
--------------------------------------------------
- American Venom

 

However recently I have been debating whether to do Course Of True Love 1 BEFORE American Distillation in which case this is the latest Chapter 3 order I've been playing with:-

 

Spoiler

- The New South
- Further Questions Of Female Suffrage (Visit Butcher to waste time on way back from post office and return after 8pm)
- < Money Lending And Other Sins 4 - Cutscene>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

- < Sean - Home Robbery >
- The Course Of True Love 1 - 2

- < Tilly - Dominoes >
- < Javier - Fishing >

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- American Distillation
- < Micah - Five Finger Fillet >
- An Honest Mistake
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Kieran - Fishing >
- The Course Of True Love 3
- Advertising, The New American Art 1 - 2
- The Fine Joys Of Tobacco
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Horse Flesh For Dinner
- Preaching Forgiveness As He Went
- Magicians For Sport
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Money Lending And Other Sins IV - Gwyn Hughes >
- Friends In Very Low Places
- < Sean - Coach Robbery >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Money Lending And Other Sins 4 - Winton Holmes >
- < Hector - Coach Robbery 1 >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Sodom? Back To Gomorrah
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Alden - Coach Robbery 1 >
- < Bill - Coach Robbery >
- ( Camp overnight OR Return to camp )
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Blessed Are The Peacemakers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- A Short Walk In A Pretty Town
- Blood Feuds, Ancient And Modern
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- The Battle Of Shady Belle

 

[Buddy Hightower]

No reason to follow a certain order, the missions make sense to play them in any order once they are available.

In fact, it's fun to follow different paths than you had taken previously.

Chapter 1 has a clear order, which some of the guides have wrong BTW, but the rest of the chapters have no real order to follow.

Hunt with Charles is before old friends... clearly. Just watch the clock.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Buddy Hightower

[CainTheWanderer]

21 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Here  you go Cain. This is my latest one that I usually follow:-

 

  Reveal hidden contents

CHAPTER 1

- Outlaws From The West
- Enter, Pursued By A Memory
---------------------------------------
- The Aftermath of Genesis
- Old Friends
---------------------------------------
- Who The Hell Is Leviticus Cornwall?
---------------------------------------
- Eastward Bound

 

CHAPTER 2

- Americans At Rest

- Who Is Not Without Sin
---------------------------------------
- First Shall Be The Last
---------------------------------------
- Polite Society Valentine Style ( After 1pm )
---------------------------------------
- Money Lending and Other Sins 1 - 2
---------------------------------------
- Good Honest Snake Oil
---------------------------------------
- Exit Pursued ( Return )
---------------------------------------
- Paying A Social Call
- ( Grimshaw reminder about Spines Of America )
- < Charles - Hunting >
- Spines of America (Return with Hosea) (After 8 - 9pm and wait until Day)
---------------------------------------
- < Bounty Hunting - Ellie Ann Swan >
- ( Grimshaw reminder about We Loved Once And True 1 )
- A Quiet Time
---------------------------------------
- [ Valentine Dr Robbery ]
- Blessed Are The Meek
- ( camp overnight until Noon then escape from Bounty Hunters if they appear )
---------------------------------------
- < Lenny - FFF >
- We Loved Once and True 1
- Money Lending and Other Sins 3
- Pouring Forth Oil 1
- < Javier - Home Robbery >
- ( camp overnight )
---------------------------------------
- We Loved Once and True 2 - 3
- *Pouring Forth Oil 2 ( Skips at this point )
- ( Stay in hotel overnight )
---------------------------------------
- Pouring Forth Oil 3
- Fisher Of Men
- Pouring Forth Oil 4
---------------------------------------
- American Pastoral Scene
- Sheep and the Goats
- ( camp overnight )
---------------------------------------
- Strange Kindness

 

CHAPTER 3

- The New South
- Further Questions Of Female Suffrage (Visit Butcher to waste time on way back from post office and return after 8pm)
- < Money Lending And Other Sins 4 - Cutscene>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- American Distillation
- < Tilly - Dominoes >
- < Javier - Fishing >
- An Honest Mistake
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Sean - Home Robbery >
- The Course Of True Love 1 - 2
- < Micah - Five Finger Fillet >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Kieran - Fishing >
- The Course Of True Love 3
- Advertising, The New American Art 1 - 2
- The Fine Joys Of Tobacco
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Horse Flesh For Dinner
- Preaching Forgiveness As He Went
- Magicians For Sport
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Money Lending And Other Sins IV - Gwyn Hughes >
- Friends In Very Low Places
- < Sean - Coach Robbery >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Money Lending And Other Sins 4 - Winton Holmes >
- < Hector - Coach Robbery 1 >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Sodom? Back To Gomorrah
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Alden - Coach Robbery 1 >
- < Bill - Coach Robbery >
- ( Camp overnight OR Return to camp )
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Blessed Are The Peacemakers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- A Short Walk In A Pretty Town
- Blood Feuds, Ancient And Modern
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- The Battle Of Shady Belle

 

CHAPTER 4

- The Joys Of Civilization
- Angelo Bronte A Man Of Honor
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Fatherhood and Other Dreams 1 >
- < Help A Brother Out >
- < Fatherhood And Other Dreams 2 >
- < Uncle - Rustling >
- ( Camp until noon )
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- No, No and Thrice No
- < Charles - Bank Robbery >
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ( Sell horse from No, No and Thrice No or keep it and sell your old one )
- < Brothers And Sisters One And All >
- < Lenny - Coach Robbery >
- < Pearson - Hunting >
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Gilded Cage
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- American Fathers 1
- Fine Night of Debauchery
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Micah - Coach Robbery >
- Horsemen Apocalypses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Urban Pleasures
- American Fathers 2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Country Pursuits
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Money Lending and Other Sins 4 >
- Revenge is a Dish Best Eaten
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Banking The Old American Art

 

CHAPTER 5

- Welcome to the New World
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Savagery Unleashed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- A Kind and Benevolent Despot
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Hell Hath No Fury
- Paradise Mercifully Departed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Dear Uncle Tacitus
- Fleeting Joy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- A Fork in the Road
- Icarus and Friends
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- That’s Murfree Country

 

CHAPTER 6

- Dear Uncle Tacitus
- Fleeting Joy
- Fork In The Road
- Icarus and Friends
- That's Murfree Country
------------------------------------------
- ( Sell/stable horse from Dear Uncle Tacitus at Van Horn Stables or keep it and sell/stable your old one )
- Visiting Hours
- Just A Social Call
- < Widow of Willard's Rest 1 >
- < The Course of True Love 4 (Read Letter) >
- Rage Unleashed
------------------------------------------
- < Wisdom of The Elders 1 >
- Archaeology For Beginners
------------------------------------------
- < The Veteran 1 >
- Honor Amongst Thieves
- < Of Men and Angels >
- Goodbye Dear Friend
- (time seems to go overnight here until Arthur arrives at camp the next day)
------------------------------------------
- Fine Art of Conversation
- ( Camp until morning )
------------------------------------------
- < The Course of True Love 5 >
- Favored Sons
------------------------------------------
- King's Son
------------------------------------------
- Delights Of Van Horn
- < Widow of Willard's Rest 2 >
- < The Veteran 2 >
- Bridge To Nowhere
- ( Camp until morning )
------------------------------------------
- ( Cleet and Joe appear in camp here )
- < Money Lending and Other Sins 6 >
- < Money Lending and Other Sins 6 - J John Weathers >
- < Money Lending and Other Sins 6 - Arthur Londonderry  >
- < Money Lending and Other Sins 7 >
------------------------------------------
- < Do Not Seek Absolution 1 >
- < The Veteran 3 >
- < Wisdom of The Elders 2 >
------------------------------------------
- < Do Not Seek Absolution 2 >
- < Wisdom of The Elders 3 - 4 >
- Mrs Sadie Adler Widow 1
------------------------------------------
- Mrs Sadie Adler Widow 2
- < The Veteran 4 >
- ( Sell/stable your old horse at Van Horn Stables because you now have Buell )
- < Widow of Willard's Rest 3 >
- My Last Boy
------------------------------------------
- Our Best Selves
- Red Dead Redemption

 

EPILOGUE

 

- The Wheel
--------------------------------------------------
- Simple Pleasures
--------------------------------------------------
- Fatherhood For Beginners
--------------------------------------------------
- Farming For Beginners
- Old Habits
--------------------------------------------------
- Jim Milton Rides, Again
--------------------------------------------------
- Fatherhood For Idiots
--------------------------------------------------
- Motherhood
--------------------------------------------------
- The Landowning Classes
- Home of The Gentry
--------------------------------------------------
- Gainful Employment
- (Camp overnight)
--------------------------------------------------
- Bare Knuckle Friendships
- Home Improvement For Beginners
- An Honest Day's Labors
- (Sleep in Blackwater hotel until morning)
--------------------------------------------------
- The Tool Box
--------------------------------------------------
- A New Jerusalem
--------------------------------------------------
- A Quick Favor For An Old Friend
--------------------------------------------------
- Uncle's Bad Day
--------------------------------------------------
- A Really Big Bastard
- Trying Again
--------------------------------------------------
- A New Future Imagined
--------------------------------------------------
- American Venom

 

However recently I have been debating whether to do Course Of True Love 1 BEFORE American Distillation in which case this is the latest Chapter 3 order I've been playing with:-

 

  Reveal hidden contents

- The New South
- Further Questions Of Female Suffrage (Visit Butcher to waste time on way back from post office and return after 8pm)
- < Money Lending And Other Sins 4 - Cutscene>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

- < Sean - Home Robbery >
- The Course Of True Love 1 - 2

- < Tilly - Dominoes >
- < Javier - Fishing >

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- American Distillation
- < Micah - Five Finger Fillet >
- An Honest Mistake
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Kieran - Fishing >
- The Course Of True Love 3
- Advertising, The New American Art 1 - 2
- The Fine Joys Of Tobacco
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Horse Flesh For Dinner
- Preaching Forgiveness As He Went
- Magicians For Sport
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Money Lending And Other Sins IV - Gwyn Hughes >
- Friends In Very Low Places
- < Sean - Coach Robbery >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Money Lending And Other Sins 4 - Winton Holmes >
- < Hector - Coach Robbery 1 >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Sodom? Back To Gomorrah
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- < Alden - Coach Robbery 1 >
- < Bill - Coach Robbery >
- ( Camp overnight OR Return to camp )
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Blessed Are The Peacemakers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- A Short Walk In A Pretty Town
- Blood Feuds, Ancient And Modern
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- The Battle Of Shady Belle

 

I am in the middle of chapter 3 (just completed Fine Joys of Tobacco).  I prefer to do American Distillation first because I like to have to Badge on when I first visit Caliga Hall to meet Beau Gray.  Also, Dutch shouldn't wait in town for more than a day.

[jimmyoneshot]

1 hour ago, CainTheWanderer said:

I am in the middle of chapter 3 (just completed Fine Joys of Tobacco).  I prefer to do American Distillation first because I like to have to Badge on when I first visit Caliga Hall to meet Beau Gray.  Also, Dutch shouldn't wait in town for more than a day.

I was always the same and know what you mean. Now I'm 50/50 but either way works.

 

I think unless we are told "this person is at this place now" such as in Americans At Rest for example then we can class certain people being at certain places as just a gamey thing to make that mission available to give the player options for their own order similar to the way no matter what order we do there is always someone sitting in camp in a random spot 24/7.

 

Without the badge also actually fits Course of True Love 1 - 2 dialogue wise as well because when we speak to the people at Caliga Hall, rather than just say that he is working for the Sheriff Arthur bullsh*ts them saying things like "I'm a student of the history of the region" which seems silly when he has the badge. He also doesn't just show it to the 2 Grays shooting at the Braithwaite who ask who he is and point their guns at him.

 

There is also the fact that Hosea is almost always guaranteed to remind Arthur to go and have a look around the 2 families at the end of Day 1 after doing New South and Female Suffrage.

 

But as I say I think either way is fine because Rockstar clearly accounted for either with the option to show the badge to the guards.

[luckycanadian95]

Has anyone else noticed that in Javier's fishing activity, he and Arthur talk about not having ridden together -- just the two of them -- since rescuing John from the wolves? That might put the homestead robbery sometime after this fishing trip, in chapter 3 rather than chapter 2. That would also help explain (spoiler):

 

Spoiler

The fact that Arthur starts coughing at the end of the robbery. I don't think enough time has passed in chapter 2 for his cough to show up.

 

Though the homestead is a lot closer to horseshoe overlook so in that sense it feels more like a chapter 2 activity.

[BrandyNova]

35 minutes ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Has anyone else noticed that in Javier's fishing activity, he and Arthur talk about not having ridden together -- just the two of them -- since rescuing John from the wolves? That might put the homestead robbery sometime after this fishing trip, in chapter 3 rather than chapter 2. That would also help explain (spoiler):

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The fact that Arthur starts coughing at the end of the robbery. I don't think enough time has passed in chapter 2 for his cough to show up.

 

Though the homestead is a lot closer to horseshoe overlook so in that sense it feels more like a chapter 2 activity.

Yup, I noticed that too, so I saved the homestead robbery til after fishing in Chapter 3.  I didn't like it though ... as you said, it is closer to Horseshoe Overlook, and feels like a chapter 2 activity.  But because of the cough it should at least take place later in Chapter 2.   Either way, it just doesn't seem quite right.  Too bad we can't do the fishing in Chapter 2 before the home robbery, or at least too bad for that unfortunate comment about not having ridden together since rescuing John.

Edited September 1, 2021 by BrandyNova

[jimmyoneshot]

2 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Has anyone else noticed that in Javier's fishing activity, he and Arthur talk about not having ridden together -- just the two of them -- since rescuing John from the wolves? That might put the homestead robbery sometime after this fishing trip, in chapter 3 rather than chapter 2. That would also help explain (spoiler):

 

  Hide contents

The fact that Arthur starts coughing at the end of the robbery. I don't think enough time has passed in chapter 2 for his cough to show up.

 

Though the homestead is a lot closer to horseshoe overlook so in that sense it feels more like a chapter 2 activity.

 

Ye it's a confusing one that we've spoke a lot about on here before. My thinking is that the mission WAS intended to be in Chapter 2 but they allowed it to be done in Chapter 3 as well and did the same thing with Charles Hunting too in case you missed them in 2. I think that it is likely that the dialogue at the start of Javier's fishing was meant to be dynamic based on if you've done anything with Javier before. Notice how during Sean's Home Robbery mission the dialogue there is dynamic based on whether or not you have completed Fine Joys Of Tobacco yet and if you have dome the mission Sean and Arthur very briefly mention it but they don't if you haven't.

 

One thing that is pretty telling is when the cutscene with Javier finishes Arthur automatically walks a few steps in a certain direction until the game gives you control of him again. If you do the mission in Chapter 2 Arthur walks towards the usual spot where the horses are hitched but if you do the mission in Chapter 3 he walks into the middle of nowhere in the opposite direction of where the horses are and then has to awkwardly turn around. This indicates that when they added the mission into Chapter 3 it was likely an afterthought. Here's a clip of what I mean where you can briefly see it at the end:-

 

 

There are also a few other clues about it being in Chapter 2:-

• Javier says that he heard about the house from some "fellers in town". The mission is unlocked by Americans At Rest (and once First Shall Be Last is done) during which Javier was definitely in town so this line is likely a reference to that.
• He says that the family are a "family of local boogeymen" and the house isn't really local to Rhodes
• There is some hidden dialogue at the house if you go there without Javier where the family talk about going to the market in town and stuff which is possibly where the men in Valentine have encountered them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-7pFNS56wU)
• Javier mentions it is best to go through Cumberland Falls which is pretty close by to Horseshoe

I think that the cough may be pure red herring so that we don't suspect his later coughs or it may also be an early sign because bear in mind Arthur's TB progressing so fast in general is a pretty gamey thing because apparently most cases of TB take months or years to get very bad. But either way this is why I make sure I do the mission late in Chapter 2 after Money Lending 3 has been done.

Edited September 1, 2021 by jimmyoneshot

[luckycanadian95]

3 hours ago, BrandyNova said:

Yup, I noticed that too, so I saved the homestead robbery til after fishing in Chapter 3.  I didn't like it though ... as you said, it is closer to Horseshoe Overlook, and feels like a chapter 2 activity.  But because of the cough it should at least take place later in Chapter 2.   Either way, it just doesn't seem quite right.  Too bad we can't do the fishing in Chapter 2 before the home robbery, or at least too bad for that unfortunate comment about not having ridden together since rescuing John.

 

Agreed it doesn't feel right doing them in that order. It is unfortunate, best thing would've been different lines depending on whether you've done the robbery or not.

 

1 hour ago, jimmyoneshot said:

 

Ye it's a confusing one that we've spoke a lot about on here before. My thinking is that the mission WAS intended to be in Chapter 2 but they allowed it to be done in Chapter 3 as well and did the same thing with Charles Hunting too in case you missed them in 2. I think that it is likely that the dialogue at the start of Javier's fishing was meant to be dynamic based on if you've done anything with Javier before. Notice how during Sean's Home Robbery mission the dialogue there is dynamic based on whether or not you have completed Fine Joys Of Tobacco yet and if you have dome the mission Sean and Arthur very briefly mention it but they don't if you haven't.

 

One thing that is pretty telling is when the cutscene with Javier finishes Arthur automatically walks a few steps in a certain direction until the game gives you control of him again. If you do the mission in Chapter 2 Arthur walks towards the usual spot where the horses are hitched but if you do the mission in Chapter 3 he walks into the middle of nowhere in the opposite direction of where the horses are and then has to awkwardly turn around. This indicates that when they added the mission into Chapter 3 it was likely an afterthought. Here's a clip of what I mean where you can briefly see it at the end:-

 

 

There are also a few other clues about it being in Chapter 2:-

• Javier says that he heard about the house from some "fellers in town". The mission is unlocked by Americans At Rest (and once First Shall Be Last is done) during which Javier was definitely in town so this line is likely a reference to that.
• He says that the family are a "family of local boogeymen" and the house isn't really local to Rhodes
• There is some hidden dialogue at the house if you go there without Javier where the family talk about going to the market in town and stuff which is possibly where the men in Valentine have encountered them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-7pFNS56wU)
• Javier mentions it is best to go through Cumberland Falls which is pretty close by to Horseshoe

I think that the cough may be pure red herring so that we don't suspect his later coughs or it may also be an early sign because bear in mind Arthur's TB progressing so fast in general is a pretty gamey thing because apparently most cases of TB take months or years to get very bad. But either way this is why I make sure I do the mission late in Chapter 2 after Money Lending 3 has been done.

 

Yeah not only is the family not local to Rhodes, it's not even in the same state  So I think you're right, the best time for the robbery is probably toward the end of chapter 2. Just have to assume Arthur and Javier are a bit forgetful here

Edited September 1, 2021 by luckycanadian95

[BrandyNova]

1 hour ago, jimmyoneshot said:

 

One thing that is pretty telling is when the cutscene with Javier finishes Arthur automatically walks a few steps in a certain direction until the game gives you control of him again. If you do the mission in Chapter 2 Arthur walks towards the usual spot where the horses are hitched but if you do the mission in Chapter 3 he walks into the middle of nowhere in the opposite direction of where the horses are and then has to awkwardly turn around. This indicates that when they added the mission into Chapter 3 it was likely an afterthought. Here's a clip of what I mean where you can briefly see it at the end:-

 

Oh yes!  That was another reason it really didn't fit in Chapter 3 for me.  It was so strange to see him walking in the wrong direction!  heh

 

The cough... yeah it could so easily be a red herring.  It struck me as significant in my very first playthrough, and I didn't know what to make of it.  Sure seemed ominous though... 

 

 

27 minutes ago, luckycanadian95 said:

 

Agreed it doesn't feel right doing them in that order. It is unfortunate, best thing would've been different lines depending on whether you've done the robbery or not.

 

 

Yeah not only is the family not local to Rhodes, it's not even in the same state  So I think you're right, the best time for the robbery is probably toward the end of chapter 2. Just have to assume Arthur and Javier are a bit forgetful here

haha yeah I think you are right, Chapter 2 makes more sense, despite the boys' forgetfulness  

Edited September 1, 2021 by BrandyNova

[johnny_kavanagh_]

24 minutes ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Yeah not only is the family not local to Rhodes, it's not even in the same state  So I think you're right, the best time for the robbery is probably toward the end of chapter 2. Just have to assume Arthur and Javier are a bit forgetful here

 

Yeah I put it fairly early in my current playthrough and it felt all wrong, as has been pointed out before, Social Call is supposed to serve as the tutorial for finding and cleaning weapons but you do that in the robbery, and if you do it at night (which makes the most sense as you can see inside the houses) then you have to camp out before the camping tutorial in Exit. 

 

Personally I'm fine to just consider Arthur's cough as just a product of his general health- he's a heavy smoker and drinker, doesn't have a healthy, well-balanced diet, rarely sleeps enough, and is constantly under the stress of being on the run and getting shot at. I think his poor health is probably why his TB progresses so quickly, and I think the robbery cough is just there to show that he can't even push something heavy without coughing and hacking even pre-TB, it's a great set-up. He also doesn't cough like that again until much later, he only lets out a little cough here and there, so I'm happy to consider it a sign of poor health rather than incredibly fast onset TB.

 

With this in mind, I think the robbery slots in better in late chapter 2 anyway, maybe in amongst the PFO missions, or pre-The Sheep and the Goats. It's really all about when you can get it to be triggered I think! Arthur's had an incredibly busy couple of months, it's not unreasonable for him and Javier to forget that they rode out together; they even sound unsure when they're discussing it. A little immersion-breaking, but Arthur's been punched in the head a lot.

 

On another topic- is there any reconciliation between Edith Downes coming to camp and giving Strauss Thomas' debt, saying he died, and Arthur commenting he didn't mean to kill him; and the start of Sodom, Back to Gomorrah where Strauss announces Thomas' debt and Arthur reacts as if it's new information, then goes to collect the debt she already dropped off? Or is that just massive developer oversight? I remember seeing the Edith scene mentioned unfavourably somewhere within these 149 pages

[jimmyoneshot]

10 minutes ago, BrandyNova said:

The cough... yeah it could so easily be a red herring.  It struck me as significant in my very first playthrough, and I didn't know what to make of it.  Sure seemed ominous though... 

Ye I actually think about this pretty often. I mean when you think about it the mission is basically unlocked by Americans At Rest > First Shall Be The Last, which is arguably the very first mission in the Chapter and its direct follow up. And it certainly seems that when Javier mentions overhearing people in town that this is likely in reference to his trip into town before/during Americans At Rest.

 

So it is very likely that Rockstar had planned for us to do it earlyish i.e. in Chapter 2. When in Chapter 2 is the question though ha.

[jimmyoneshot]

4 minutes ago, johnny_kavanagh_ said:

 

Yeah I put it fairly early in my current playthrough and it felt all wrong, as has been pointed out before, Social Call is supposed to serve as the tutorial for finding and cleaning weapons but you do that in the robbery, and if you do it at night (which makes the most sense as you can see inside the houses) then you have to camp out before the camping tutorial in Exit. 

 

Personally I'm fine to just consider Arthur's cough as just a product of his general health- he's a heavy smoker and drinker, doesn't have a healthy, well-balanced diet, rarely sleeps enough, and is constantly under the stress of being on the run and getting shot at. I think his poor health is probably why his TB progresses so quickly, and I think the robbery cough is just there to show that he can't even push something heavy without coughing and hacking even pre-TB, it's a great set-up. He also doesn't cough like that again until much later, he only lets out a little cough here and there, so I'm happy to consider it a sign of poor health rather than incredibly fast onset TB.

 

With this in mind, I think the robbery slots in better in late chapter 2 anyway, maybe in amongst the PFO missions, or pre-The Sheep and the Goats. It's really all about when you can get it to be triggered I think! Arthur's had an incredibly busy couple of months, it's not unreasonable for him and Javier to forget that they rode out together; they even sound unsure when they're discussing it. A little immersion-breaking, but Arthur's been punched in the head a lot.

 

On another topic- is there any reconciliation between Edith Downes coming to camp and giving Strauss Thomas' debt, saying he died, and Arthur commenting he didn't mean to kill him; and the start of Sodom, Back to Gomorrah where Strauss announces Thomas' debt and Arthur reacts as if it's new information, then goes to collect the debt she already dropped off? Or is that just massive developer oversight? I remember seeing the Edith scene mentioned unfavourably somewhere within these 149 pages

I agree completely.

 

And I think another example of a red herring is the gang thinking they were set up during Pouring Forth Oil 4 because during this mission (or at least 90% of it's set up) Micah is out of camp so couldn't know the details of it which I think was intentional to make us suspect someone else rather than him.

 

I too like to do it pretty late in Chapter 2 because then it could be a red herring or it could be the unrealistic very early signs of TB so both instances are covered haha. It works great for me a a distraction straight after John gives Arthur the oil wagon job - Arthur agrees he will get a wagon soon, gets shouted over by Javier, then goes with Javier to rob a house and then decides to drop in on Mary and forgets the oil wagon which fits very well story wise.

 

Ye that Edith Downes encounter is definitely screwed up. Even if you listen in on the whole thing and talk to Strauss about it there and then Arthur STILL acts like he never heard about Downes dying during Sodom. I just stand back when that encounter happens haha.

[johnny_kavanagh_]

18 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Ye that Edith Downes encounter is definitely screwed up. Even if you listen in on the whole thing and talk to Strauss about it there and then Arthur STILL acts like he never heard about Downes dying during Sodom. I just stand back when that encounter happens haha.

 

It's a bit hard to reconcile, but she does say "my husband owed you money, here it is" when she comes to camp, then "I nearly paid off what was owed" in Sodom, so I guess we're meant to believe that her payment at camp was only a part-payment? Maybe Downes owed a certain amount by a certain time, and that's what she was dropping off, then during Sodom Strauss wants the rest. Still doesn't explain whatsoever that she magically finds the location of the Horseshoe camp (is Strauss giving out the location to his debtors?), or why Arthur doesn't seem to remember that he already knew Downes was dead and has a far more nonchalant reaction the second time. Really disappointing, considering the Downes family is such an important part of the story. 

[jimmyoneshot]

10 minutes ago, johnny_kavanagh_ said:

 

It's a bit hard to reconcile, but she does say "my husband owed you money, here it is" when she comes to camp, then "I nearly paid off what was owed" in Sodom, so I guess we're meant to believe that her payment at camp was only a part-payment? Maybe Downes owed a certain amount by a certain time, and that's what she was dropping off, then during Sodom Strauss wants the rest. Still doesn't explain whatsoever that she magically finds the location of the Horseshoe camp (is Strauss giving out the location to his debtors?), or why Arthur doesn't seem to remember that he already knew Downes was dead and has a far more nonchalant reaction the second time. Really disappointing, considering the Downes family is such an important part of the story. 

Ye I agree. A lot of the camp interactions are pretty inconsistent with the story for sure and it really feels like a lot of stuff has been chopped and changed in places.

 

It's the same with Mary. She is better at tracking down the gang than the Pinkertons 

[CainTheWanderer]

On 8/31/2021 at 11:51 AM, CainTheWanderer said:

I am in the middle of chapter 3 (just completed Fine Joys of Tobacco).  I prefer to do American Distillation first because I like to have to Badge on when I first visit Caliga Hall to meet Beau Gray.  Also, Dutch shouldn't wait in town for more than a day.

Are they separated by days??? Like those dashes each represent a sleep?

 

[jimmyoneshot]

21 minutes ago, CainTheWanderer said:

Are they separated by days??? Like those dashes each represent a sleep?

 

Is this meant for me Cain? If so ye I do dashes on my list for whenever I sleep or if the mission itself starts one day and goes overnight like Exit Pursued.

[johnny_kavanagh_]

So I'm just playing through chapter 6 using your order @jimmyoneshot, I got back to camp after Bridge to Nowhere and was ready to start the final string of Money Lending, buuuut Strauss approached me, asked if I'd collected any of the debts, Arthur said no, and Strauss casually said he was leaving. I'd finished Money Lending I-V but hadn't started VI, perhaps the cutscene for VI needs to be moved earlier in the chapter and just we don't return the debts until this point? Otherwise apparently it risks mostly skipping over the entire ending for Strauss. 

 

EDIT: Well this is strange, despite him approaching and saying he was leaving, a few minutes later he reappeared near the cliff and the mission strand opened up again. Very strange! I'm thinking maybe the cutscene could be brought back earlier though, especially because it feels a bit strange at this point for Arthur to even be accepting the debt collections.

Edited September 3, 2021 by johnny_kavanagh_

[Dan_1983]

I do Strauss missions and kick him out early in Chapter 6. In fact I do all Annesburg business (Downes strand) before meeting Dutch, he can wait and going back to Annesburg after killing Cornwall seems weird. Plus I hate Strauss as he is a blood sucking leech, so one less idiot gone early in a depressing camp is good to me.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Dan_1983

[johnny_kavanagh_]

31 minutes ago, Dan_1983 said:

I do Strauss missions and kick him out early in Chapter 6. In fact I do all Annesburg business (Downes strand) before meeting Dutch, he can wait and going back to Annesburg after killing Cornwall seems weird. Plus I hate Strauss as he is a blood sucking leech, so one less idiot gone early in a depressing camp is good to me.

 

Yeah reading back earlier in this thread, it seems like we have them a little bit later because Bill is in the cutscene but I wonder if they could come a little earlier, maybe some other time that Bill is around camp? Especially because it works really well as a turning point for Arthur where he takes a definitive stand. It felt extremely strange to even have him hunting down debts to begin with at this point, even if he absolves them.

 

It's worth noting though that despite my weird interaction with Strauss, everything else went completely normal and I just kicked him out as usual. 

[jimmyoneshot]

1 hour ago, johnny_kavanagh_ said:

So I'm just playing through chapter 6 using your order @jimmyoneshot, I got back to camp after Bridge to Nowhere and was ready to start the final string of Money Lending, buuuut Strauss approached me, asked if I'd collected any of the debts, Arthur said no, and Strauss casually said he was leaving. I'd finished Money Lending I-V but hadn't started VI, perhaps the cutscene for VI needs to be moved earlier in the chapter and just we don't return the debts until this point? Otherwise apparently it risks mostly skipping over the entire ending for Strauss. 

 

EDIT: Well this is strange, despite him approaching and saying he was leaving, a few minutes later he reappeared near the cliff and the mission strand opened up again. Very strange! I'm thinking maybe the cutscene could be brought back earlier though, especially because it feels a bit strange at this point for Arthur to even be accepting the debt collections.

Ye I've had this too. In fact I think it can happen even earlier even though Strauss can still hang around after it which is stupid. It's been a long time since I played Chapter 6 though so I'd have to check again. There are a few reasons for doing Money Lending a bit later based on story and dialogue. Firstly it's best to point out that as soon as Arthur wakes up after rescuing John in Visiting Hours is when Chapter 6 starts getting going properly and stuff starts unlocking.

 

At this point Mary-Beth comes over and tells Arthur that Dutch and Micah are in Annesburg waiting for him i.e. Paying A Social Call and Arthur puts his hat on indicating he is about to go there so it fits story wise to go and do that first. Also at this point both the Money Lending mission and the Course Of True Love Letter aren't unlocked until we actually leave camp and return again which again indicates that Paying A Social Call should be done here because otherwise we'd have to leave camp, do a u turn and come back to be able to do these missions:-

• When we have done Paying A Social Call this unlocks 2 branches of missions - The Indian branch (A Rage Unleashed, Archeology For Beginners, Honour Amongst Thieves, Fine Art Of Conversation, Goodbye Dear Friend) and the blowing up the bridge branch (Delights Of Van Horn, Bridge To Nowhere). However there is dialogue in both blowing up the bridge branch missions which references (and in the case of Bridge To Nowhere the reference is 100% clear) the events of missions in the Indian branch which indicates they should come after (I can expand on this if you want. Didn't want to do a huge post)
• Once both branches are unlocked by completing Paying A Social Call Bill is out of camp until Delights Of Van Horn is completed so it makes sense for that to be done before doing Money Lending. HOWEVER we could of course headcanon that Bill isn't out of camp with Micah all the time and is actually moving between camp and the spot they are waiting in for Delights Of Van Horn and do it earlier

So your choices are basically:-

1. Ignore Mary-Beth telling you about Dutch and hang around camp or hunt and come back to make Money Lending unlock and do it early
2. Ignore the fact that Bill is in camp during the ending cutscene and just headcanon that he comes back to camp now and again maybe and do it earlier
3. Do it after both branches of missions

But the side missions are definitely confusing in this chapter haha.

[johnny_kavanagh_]

4 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

So your choices are basically:-

1. Ignore Mary-Beth telling you about Dutch and hang around camp or hunt and come back to make Money Lending unlock and do it early
2. Ignore the fact that Bill is in camp during the ending cutscene and just headcanon that he comes back to camp now and again maybe and do it earlier
3. Do it after both branches of missions

But the side missions are definitely confusing in this chapter haha.

 

Hmm, interesting! Bill, causing us problems since 2010. I did a CTRL+F of earlier pages in the thread and found your discussion back then on the order of the Indian/Bridge missions, page 65 for anybody wondering, I think that covers all the reasons. Unless anything new has been discovered since?

 

I wonder if we could put the Money Lending VI cutscene earlier, to unlock them at least, and then Arthur just takes his time doing them as he's wrapped up in the Indian/bridge stories. Or, do J John Weathers early and leave Arthur Londonderry until later. Perhaps there's a very delicate way to weave the debts in amongst the Indian/Bridge lines so that Arthur kicks Strauss out in between Delights and Bridge, I'm going to do a full 100% run in the next few weeks so I might see if I can make something work then. Personally though I'd definitely rather have Bill teleport into the cutscene than have Strauss say he's leaving and then sit back down give Arthur debt collection tasks that Arthur has grown past doing haha, but that's absolutely a personal preference thing.

 

 

 

 

[Dan_1983]

44 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Ye I've had this too. In fact I think it can happen even earlier even though Strauss can still hang around after it which is stupid. It's been a long time since I played Chapter 6 though so I'd have to check again. There are a few reasons for doing Money Lending a bit later based on story and dialogue. Firstly it's best to point out that as soon as Arthur wakes up after rescuing John in Visiting Hours is when Chapter 6 starts getting going properly and stuff starts unlocking.

 

At this point Mary-Beth comes over and tells Arthur that Dutch and Micah are in Annesburg waiting for him i.e. Paying A Social Call and Arthur puts his hat on indicating he is about to go there so it fits story wise to go and do that first. Also at this point both the Money Lending mission and the Course Of True Love Letter aren't unlocked until we actually leave camp and return again which again indicates that Paying A Social Call should be done here because otherwise we'd have to leave camp, do a u turn and come back to be able to do these missions:-

• When we have done Paying A Social Call this unlocks 2 branches of missions - The Indian branch (A Rage Unleashed, Archeology For Beginners, Honour Amongst Thieves, Fine Art Of Conversation, Goodbye Dear Friend) and the blowing up the bridge branch (Delights Of Van Horn, Bridge To Nowhere). However there is dialogue in both blowing up the bridge branch missions which references (and in the case of Bridge To Nowhere the reference is 100% clear) the events of missions in the Indian branch which indicates they should come after (I can expand on this if you want. Didn't want to do a huge post)
• Once both branches are unlocked by completing Paying A Social Call Bill is out of camp until Delights Of Van Horn is completed so it makes sense for that to be done before doing Money Lending. HOWEVER we could of course headcanon that Bill isn't out of camp with Micah all the time and is actually moving between camp and the spot they are waiting in for Delights Of Van Horn and do it earlier

So your choices are basically:-

1. Ignore Mary-Beth telling you about Dutch and hang around camp or hunt and come back to make Money Lending unlock and do it early
2. Ignore the fact that Bill is in camp during the ending cutscene and just headcanon that he comes back to camp now and again maybe and do it earlier
3. Do it after both branches of missions

But the side missions are definitely confusing in this chapter haha.

This and Chapter 4 are complete nightmares lol. Still trying to figure out when it's best to put the mayor's missions in Chapter 4. Any ideas?

[Dan_1983]

20 minutes ago, johnny_kavanagh_ said:

 

Hmm, interesting! Bill, causing us problems since 2010. I did a CTRL+F of earlier pages in the thread and found your discussion back then on the order of the Indian/Bridge missions, page 65 for anybody wondering, I think that covers all the reasons. Unless anything new has been discovered since?

 

I wonder if we could put the Money Lending VI cutscene earlier, to unlock them at least, and then Arthur just takes his time doing them as he's wrapped up in the Indian/bridge stories. Or, do J John Weathers early and leave Arthur Londonderry until later. Perhaps there's a very delicate way to weave the debts in amongst the Indian/Bridge lines so that Arthur kicks Strauss out in between Delights and Bridge, I'm going to do a full 100% run in the next few weeks so I might see if I can make something work then. Personally though I'd definitely rather have Bill teleport into the cutscene than have Strauss say he's leaving and then sit back down give Arthur debt collection tasks that Arthur has grown past doing haha, but that's absolutely a personal preference thing.

 

 

 

 

Dutch isn't in camp when Arthur kicks Strauss out and if he was, you can bet your bottom dollar he'd say something about it. That's the main reason I kick Strauss out before seeing Dutch.

[jimmyoneshot]

16 minutes ago, Dan_1983 said:

This and Chapter 4 are complete nightmares lol. Still trying to figure out when it's best to put the mayor's missions in Chapter 4. Any ideas?

I really like the mayors missions because I feel they really fit in well with Arthur's debt collecting personality ha. The problem is the fact they don't fit John or late game Arthur at all in my opinion so have to be done in Chapter 4 and the length between each part is too long for Chapter 4 which is a short chapter main mission wise. I think Part 2 is 2 days after part 1 and Part 3 is 3 days after part 2 or something like that.

[jimmyoneshot]

36 minutes ago, johnny_kavanagh_ said:

 

Hmm, interesting! Bill, causing us problems since 2010. I did a CTRL+F of earlier pages in the thread and found your discussion back then on the order of the Indian/Bridge missions, page 65 for anybody wondering, I think that covers all the reasons. Unless anything new has been discovered since?

 

I wonder if we could put the Money Lending VI cutscene earlier, to unlock them at least, and then Arthur just takes his time doing them as he's wrapped up in the Indian/bridge stories. Or, do J John Weathers early and leave Arthur Londonderry until later. Perhaps there's a very delicate way to weave the debts in amongst the Indian/Bridge lines so that Arthur kicks Strauss out in between Delights and Bridge, I'm going to do a full 100% run in the next few weeks so I might see if I can make something work then. Personally though I'd definitely rather have Bill teleport into the cutscene than have Strauss say he's leaving and then sit back down give Arthur debt collection tasks that Arthur has grown past doing haha, but that's absolutely a personal preference thing.

Ye the references are basically:-

• Delights Of Van Horn - Micah saying "We gotta confuse them one last time" with them being the army which is in reference to Favoured Sons where Arthur, Dutch and the Indians attack the army to create confusion
• Bridge To Nowhere - Arthur saying "I guess Dutch got all the smoke he wants" which refers to Dutch saying "We need a whole lot of smoke" during Rage Unleashed
• Bridge To Nowhere - Arthur saying him and John need to help Dutch give the army "one last tweak on the nose" which refers to Dutch saying "we're just tweaking Uncle Sam's nose a bit" during Favoured Sons

Ye that could be a possibility. One thing to take into account is Arthur is pretty worried about fighting the army during some of the story missions which is another reason why it may be better to do J John Weathers later because Arthur fights the army during that.

 

The other issue is the Indian storyline is pretty one after the other i.e. :-

1. Rage Unleashed - Charles asks Arthur to help out Rains Fall (Archeology for Beginners) and Dutch says to Arthur that when Colm is dealt with (Goodbye Dear Friend) to meet him at Fort Wallace (Favoured Sons)
2. Archeology for Beginners - This unlocks Honour Among Thieves which is pretty close by once this mission finishes and needs to be completed before Goodbye Dear Friend unlocks so should come next before that
3. Honour Among Thieves
4. Goodbye Dear Friend - This ends back at camp where the nearest main mission available is Fine Art of Conversation
5. Fine Art of Conversation - This ends near where Favoured Sons starts and Dutch asked Arthur to meet him for that too so that makes sense next
6. Favoured Sons - At the end of this Dutch will tell you to rescue Rains Fall with Charles (Kings Son)
7. Kings Son

So you have to slot the mission/s in somewhere in there. The best spot in my opinion would be after Goodbye Dear Friend because that takes Arthur back to camp and in this case again you would just ignore the fact that Bill is in camp. There is also the fact that Dutch wouldn't be back at camp at this point but he would be back after you finish Favoured Sons.

[BrandyNova]

4 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Ye the references are basically:-

• Delights Of Van Horn - Micah saying "We gotta confuse them one last time" with them being the army which is in reference to Favoured Sons where Arthur, Dutch and the Indians attack the army to create confusion
• Bridge To Nowhere - Arthur saying "I guess Dutch got all the smoke he wants" which refers to Dutch saying "We need a whole lot of smoke" during Rage Unleashed
• Bridge To Nowhere - Arthur saying him and John need to help Dutch give the army "one last tweak on the nose" which refers to Dutch saying "we're just tweaking Uncle Sam's nose a bit" during Favoured Sons

Ye that could be a possibility. One thing to take into account is Arthur is pretty worried about fighting the army during some of the story missions which is another reason why it may be better to do J John Weathers later because Arthur fights the army during that.

 

The other issue is the Indian storyline is pretty one after the other i.e. :-

1. Rage Unleashed - Charles asks Arthur to help out Rains Fall (Archeology for Beginners) and Dutch says to Arthur that when Colm is dealt with (Goodbye Dear Friend) to meet him at Fort Wallace (Favoured Sons)
2. Archeology for Beginners - This unlocks Honour Among Thieves which is pretty close by once this mission finishes and needs to be completed before Goodbye Dear Friend unlocks so should come next before that
3. Honour Among Thieves
4. Goodbye Dear Friend - This ends back at camp where the nearest main mission available is Fine Art of Conversation
5. Fine Art of Conversation - This ends near where Favoured Sons starts and Dutch asked Arthur to meet him for that too so that makes sense next
6. Favoured Sons - At the end of this Dutch will tell you to rescue Rains Fall with Charles (Kings Son)
7. Kings Son

So you have to slot the mission/s in somewhere in there. The best spot in my opinion would be after Goodbye Dear Friend because that takes Arthur back to camp and in this case again you would just ignore the fact that Bill is in camp. There is also the fact that Dutch wouldn't be back at camp at this point but he would be back after you finish Favoured Sons.

Super helpful, as always Jimmy  

I do like the idea of putting the Money Lending cutscene following Goodbye Dear Friend as you suggested, as I don't much like leaving camp, then returning, just to trigger the mission early. 

However, collecting debts after talking to Sister Calderón (at the end of Fine Art of Conversation) bothers me,  though Arthur is willing to not only forgive their debts, but fights the soldiers on behalf of Weathers, and gives the Londonderry widow money. So I guess I can go along with it.   I also have trouble returning to Annesburg after the big shootout with Cornwall and his men.  I know we have shootouts in each of the towns, and do return to them at a later point, so I guess I can get past that too.  

So, despite all my discomforts, I was thinking going after Weathers right after Kings Son, then perhaps Londonderry right afterwards, since it ends with Arthur back at camp with that wonderful scene of him tossing out Strauss.  It works well to go from there to meet up with Micah and Bill for Delights Of Van Horn.   Where else might we slot in Londonderry?

 

And then there's The Course of True Love 5.   Helping Penelope and Beau would seem to flow well after Arthur has his talk with Sister Calderón at Emerald Station, after Fine Art of Conversation.    

 

5 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

I really like the mayors missions because I feel they really fit in well with Arthur's debt collecting personality ha. The problem is the fact they don't fit John or late game Arthur at all in my opinion so have to be done in Chapter 4 and the length between each part is too long for Chapter 4 which is a short chapter main mission wise. I think Part 2 is 2 days after part 1 and Part 3 is 3 days after part 2 or something like that.

 I like these missions quite a bit for Arthur, too, but I'm also having trouble figuring out where to slot these in.   And I do like doing them in Chapter 4 as much as possible, since the primary town is Saint Denis, and it is more fitting to do before all the drama of Chapter 6 kicks in.   I seem to remember these are all night missions, available after Gilded Cage, which really limits our options.

[jimmyoneshot]

5 hours ago, BrandyNova said:

Super helpful, as always Jimmy  

I do like the idea of putting the Money Lending cutscene following Goodbye Dear Friend as you suggested, as I don't much like leaving camp, then returning, just to trigger the mission early. 

However, collecting debts after talking to Sister Calderón (at the end of Fine Art of Conversation) bothers me,  though Arthur is willing to not only forgive their debts, but fights the soldiers on behalf of Weathers, and gives the Londonderry widow money. So I guess I can go along with it.   I also have trouble returning to Annesburg after the big shootout with Cornwall and his men.  I know we have shootouts in each of the towns, and do return to them at a later point, so I guess I can get past that too.  

So, despite all my discomforts, I was thinking going after Weathers right after Kings Son, then perhaps Londonderry right afterwards, since it ends with Arthur back at camp with that wonderful scene of him tossing out Strauss.  It works well to go from there to meet up with Micah and Bill for Delights Of Van Horn.   Where else might we slot in Londonderry?

 

And then there's The Course of True Love 5.   Helping Penelope and Beau would seem to flow well after Arthur has his talk with Sister Calderón at Emerald Station, after Fine Art of Conversation.   

Thanks Nova.

 

Ye there are a couple of things to consider here:-

• As we mentioned above, the dialogue evidence seems to show that the Bridge branch of missions (Delights Of Van Horn and Bridge To Nowhere) come after the Indian branch so if we follow the usual theory that there was once an 'original order' then it is certainly possible that Delights of Van Horn was originally meant to be unavailable until the whole Indian branch was done and then Dutch or someone else would tell Arthur about Micah being at Van Horn for Delights but then Rockstar maybe brought it forward to give players 2 choices of missions. Notice how at the end of Just A Social Call Dutch tells Micah "we need to talk" and says "let's meet back at camp" and by the time we meet Micah later at Delights he knows all about Dutch's plan so he must've been in contact with him which would be impossible if we take it as fact that Micah has been at the old house near Van Horn the whole time rather than at camp now and again. This would explain why Bill is in camp when we do Money Lending because maybe he and Micah were always meant to be in camp originally until after the whole Indian branch was done
• At the start of Fine Art Of Conversation when riding out Arthur says that he "hopes nobody recognises" him and that he has "had a few run ins with the army recently". The only possible times Arthur has run ins with the Army is during Rage Unleashed where he steals the horses, Archaeology For Beginners where he steals the relics for Rains Fall and Honour Among Thieves where he steals the medicine for the Indian camp. However all of these are stealth missions so it's very unlikely he got spotted in any of them except during Rage Unleashed where it is scripted for you to get spotted. The next to last one is Favoured Sons but that should really come after Fine Art Of Conversation so we can't really count that and finally the last one is during the J John Weathers debt where he fights them directly. So it is very possible that the run ins that he is talking about are Rage Unleashed and J John Weathers which would mean we could do Money Lending after returning from Goodbye Dear Friend.
• At the end of Goodbye Dear Friend Arthur is likely to be pretty down after reading the letter from Mary - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-K3XWFpQdo and at the start of Money Lending he seems really pissed off too so it is possible that it may fit well. Whether he looks pissed off enough is up for debate though - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS_jdYHnM6s What do you think? One reason I think it might fit is Mary's letter is linked to Money Lending in Chapter 2 with Mary's letter being the thing that causes Strauss to remind you about Downes so it might also flow well here

I'll probably start a new playthrough tomorrow and mess about in Chapter 6 again and see how this fits in. The other good thing about doing Money Lending after Goodbye Dear Friend is it means Dutch won't be at camp and as @Dan_1983 said it seems weird that Dutch has no reaction to Strauss getting booted. I once kicked Strauss out while Dutch was at camp and Dutch was just spooning himself out a bowl of stew in the background a few feet away not even bothered