RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 - "Chronological" Mission Order

[Alexlecj]

6 hours ago, Sutliff said:

I do remember that one, that was awfully brutal getting the full conversation.  Another one I remember having trouble with is the Micah companion mission where he says he slept with Jenny.

It is indeed painful to get it right...

 

If you're not careful, you can miss additional dialogue between Micah and Sheriff Gray during "A Short Walk in a Pretty Town". The same can happen at the end of "A Rage Unleashed". And I still want to hear the beginning of the dialogue between Eagle Flies and his jailer during "The King's Son".

 

Spoiler

Micah Bell: Sheriff Gray! You need to get a hold on this town, it's going to hell!
Leigh Gray: Who do you think you are? A bunch of two-bit thugs from God knows where? You're so dumb to think we don't know what you been doing.
Micah Bell: Come out, Sheriff. It's over.
Leigh Gray: We put down far worse than you. A hundred times over. This is the Grays' town. Always has been, always will be!
Micah Bell: Only Grays I see left around here... is you! Come out, Sheriff, or we're coming in!
Leigh Gray: After we're done with you, we'll go after the others. Your women, your children, we'll bleed 'em all out one by one!
Micah Bell: Are you out of your goddamn mind? Last. Chance. Die in there, cowering like a dog. Or come out, and face it like a man!
Leigh Gray: You want us to come out? We'll come out!

 

Spoiler

Dutch van der Linde: Ah, seems like Uncle Sam likes you fellers even less than he likes us!
Eagle Flies: So it goes... my father doesn't want to fight again.
Dutch van der Linde: Well, he is a wise man, but you know... I think that I agree with you. There's only so much treachery and betrayal that a man can take before he must admit to himself that he is no longer a man.
Eagle Flies: Never thought about it in those terms.
Dutch van der Linde: An old friend of Evelyn Miller like you? I doubt that. You know I never had a son... Your father must be a great man... he raised you.
Eagle Flies: Thank you.

 

Spoiler

Eagle Flies: No, I think the snake was full up after eating your brain.
Soldier: Oh, that a joke?
Eagle Flies: No, no joke. Not funny.
Soldier: Why you gotta make your life so hard?
Eagle Flies: I'm the son of an Indian chief. One day... one day, I will be chief. Your people, if people is what they are, have declared war upon mine. It is you who had made my life hard.
Soldier: Now we both know that ain't true, red man.
Eagle Flies: We do?
Soldier: Sure.
Eagle Flies: Enlighten me.
Soldier: Well this... this country is a gift from God.
Eagle Flies: And who did he give it to?
Soldier: He gave it to us. We win, asshole.

 

[jimmyoneshot]

23 hours ago, Sutliff said:

I've been playing the game again after the new update fixed that annoying weather bug dialogue, and in the first mission something new happened for me.  I had no idea you could have dialogue with Dutch after asking Micah "Further?"  (You have to go really slow and not match speed so Micah slows down his horse).  So my question did anyone discover any dialogue that can be missed in a mission.  I posted the Dutch dialogue in mission 1 and Arthur and John's dialogue in mission 2 that I have also missed.  Does anyone know of any other examples of this in other missions?

 

Dutch's dialogue is at 6:40 in the clip.

Arthur, John and Javiers dialogue is at 16:05 in the second clip.

 

Great stuff. I never knew about either of those. To be honest they really poorly programmed/timed a lot of the travelling conversations in this game. A lot of them get cut short even though you are literally riding at the pace that the game makes you ride at by just holding x like you are supposed to. Another example if if you choose to talk to Bill during the ride out at the start of Social Call.

Edited August 21, 2021 by jimmyoneshot

[jimmyoneshot]

11 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

• Scene continuity -- In Genesis, Pearson clears a pot and other items off his table. In Old Friends, the table has been cleared no matter which mission you did first.

 

I looked into this one in particular a while back and it seems that the cooking pot being over the stove is just a generic layout for the camp whenever any mission is active because it is strangely in that position during Enter Pursued By A Memory but I had to use a free cam mod to see it. Here's a link to the comment I made about it:-

 

https://gtaforums.com/topic/919564-red-dead-redemption-2-chronological-mission-order/?do=findComment&comment=1071511392

 

So we can probably disregard that one if we wish.

 

You pretty much summarised the evidence for either order too though and as you say they covered their tracks pretty well here.

[Mr. Ando]

 I tried Polite Society frirst, killed Jimmy Brooks and kept the horse, rode back to the camp and investigated Swanson's bible, so I went to rescue him and returned at night. I feel for roleplaying purposes this worked pretty well as I spend the morning doing Polite Society and didn't had to walk back to the camp, so I had enough time to go to the station and play poker to justify spending another couple of hours. By the time I saved Swanson it made sense the time was 5:30 pm. 

[Dan_1983]

Killing Jimmy Brooks is justifiable but you lose a lot of honour for it. You're silencing a potential snitch. 

 

Honour that early means nothing. I've killed him and still got the buck scene first time after Blessed are the Peacemakers as I mostly did good.

[luckycanadian95]

On 8/14/2021 at 9:06 PM, Chicken Sauce said:

Lucky Canadian do you know the exact time

I went through chapter 1 to find mission times and I noticed a few interesting things.

Outlaws -- 12 am
Enter Pursued -- 7 am to 7 pm
Genesis -- 9 am to 12 pm
Old Friends -- 4 pm to 9 pm
Leviticus -- 9 am to 9 pm

Eastward Bound -- 7 am to 7 pm

Camp free roam after getting John starts at 6 am. Hanging around will make time progress until 9 am, and then the clock freezes. This matches up with the start of genesis which is always 9. If you save and then reload, or replay a mission, time will have jumped a few minutes but the clock is still frozen. So basically the game makes it difficult to push past 9. 

 

If you play old friends at this point, time jumps immediately from 9 am to 4 pm. After you raid the O'Driscolls and bring Kieran back to camp, a new day begins with time once again locked at 9 am for genesis. 

 

You always finish genesis at 12 pm. If old friends is still available, the time at camp will naturally progress from there until it reaches 4 pm and stops. Like before, a mission replay or save + reload will push time forward a bit but the clock stays locked.

 

There's not enough to keep you occupied at camp from 12 to 4, so either way you'll probably end up with a time jump before old friends.

Edited August 22, 2021 by luckycanadian95

[luckycanadian95]

8 hours ago, jimmyoneshot said:

 

I looked into this one in particular a while back and it seems that the cooking pot being over the stove is just a generic layout for the camp whenever any mission is active because it is strangely in that position during Enter Pursued By A Memory but I had to use a free cam mod to see it. Here's a link to the comment I made about it:-

 

https://gtaforums.com/topic/919564-red-dead-redemption-2-chronological-mission-order/?do=findComment&comment=1071511392

 

So we can probably disregard that one if we wish.

 

You pretty much summarised the evidence for either order too though and as you say they covered their tracks pretty well here.

That's a cool mod, yeah agreed we can get rid of that one 

[Buddy Hightower]

On 8/20/2021 at 9:00 PM, Sutliff said:

I do remember that one, that was awfully brutal getting the full conversation.  Another one I remember having trouble with is the Micah companion mission where he says he slept with Jenny.

lol you mean he raped her. 

[SoulSurj]

I think I mentioned this a while back but in case I didn't, Polite Society is an evening mission. It's best not to play it directly after Sean's party because that ends in the morning. Wait until the evening if you place Polite Society after First Shall Be Last in your mission order.

[jimmyoneshot]

23 minutes ago, SoulSurj said:

I think I mentioned this a while back but in case I didn't, Polite Society is an evening mission. It's best not to play it directly after Sean's party because that ends in the morning. Wait until the evening if you place Polite Society after First Shall Be Last in your mission order.

 

Ye it's a strange one. I can't remember what the times are but I think if you start it after 1pm then time moves faster during the mission in which case yes it is usually evening (5pm - 7pm) when it ends but if you start it before that then time gets slowed down or gets capped at 1pm until the mission ends (or until after Arthur and Uncle wake up but I can't remember which) so then you can be back at camp for like 3 - 5pm.

18 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

I went through chapter 1 to find mission times and I noticed a few interesting things.

Outlaws -- 12 am
Enter Pursued -- 7 am to 7 pm
Genesis -- 9 am to 12 pm
Old Friends -- 4 pm to 9 pm
Leviticus -- 9 am to 9 pm

Eastward Bound -- 7 am to 7 pm

Camp free roam after getting John starts at 6 am. Hanging around will make time progress until 9 am, and then the clock freezes. This matches up with the start of genesis which is always 9. If you save and then reload, or replay a mission, time will have jumped a few minutes but the clock is still frozen. So basically the game makes it difficult to push past 9. 

 

If you play old friends at this point, time jumps immediately from 9 am to 4 pm. After you raid the O'Driscolls and bring Kieran back to camp, a new day begins with time once again locked at 9 am for genesis. 

 

You always finish genesis at 12 pm. If old friends is still available, the time at camp will naturally progress from there until it reaches 4 pm and stops. Like before, a mission replay or save + reload will push time forward a bit but the clock stays locked.

 

There's not enough to keep you occupied at camp from 12 to 4, so either way you'll probably end up with a time jump before old friends.

 

Good work. I think in this case the time jumps are used for effect and so that when Old Friends finishes it is night time. It's probably less obvious to do a little forward time jump to 4pm while Arthur is in the cabin in the opening cutscene than during the mission. I imagine they also capped it at 4pm because you can't actually sleep at Colter.

[luckycanadian95]

55 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

Good work. I think in this case the time jumps are used for effect and so that when Old Friends finishes it is night time. It's probably less obvious to do a little forward time jump to 4pm while Arthur is in the cabin in the opening cutscene than during the mission. I imagine they also capped it at 4pm because you can't actually sleep at Colter.

Thanks, yeah that makes sense. Even within missions there are a lot of time jumps, probably to get the right mood/lighting etc. I noticed in leviticus for example that shots of the gang coming out of the mountains are actually a couple hours earlier than the opening cutscene (7 or 8 instead of 9) but once you regain control of Arthur it's noon. Other times the clock moves insanely fast, like in enter pursued you talk with Abigail at 7 but it's already noon by the time Javier and Arthur get up the hill to that abandoned campsite. So we should probably take mission times with a grain of salt. I was kinda hoping the clock would give useful clues in other chapters but so far it doesn't seem very promising

[luckycanadian95]

Btw does anyone know a solution to the bug where unique camp dialogue is replaced by the generic lines? It always seems to happen when I load a save in chapter one. Usually starting a new game will fix it but no luck this time.

[jimmyoneshot]

13 minutes ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Btw does anyone know a solution to the bug where unique camp dialogue is replaced by the generic lines? It always seems to happen when I load a save in chapter one. Usually starting a new game will fix it but no luck this time.

 

Usually I clear all of my existing saves before starting a new game. The reason is there are memory leak bugs in the game and because Rockstar decided to not give us the option to choose 'New Game' from the main screen if we have existing saves then we can only choose 'Story' which automatically loads your latest save game. If from there you then start a new game from within the game then sometimes the game can 'Remember' things that happened from the save game that you just loaded including lines that have already been said etc.

 

If you have already done that though and are on Playstation/XBox then you may be able to clear the cache and see if that helps. There should be YouTube videos that show you how to do that easy enough if you take a look. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by jimmyoneshot

[luckycanadian95]

2 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

 

Usually I clear all of my existing saves before starting a new game. The reason is there are memory leak bugs in the game and because Rockstar decided to not give us the option to choose 'New Game' from the main screen if we have existing saves then we can only choose 'Story' which automatically loads your latest save game. If from there you then start a new game from within the game then sometimes the game can 'Remember' things that happened from the save game that you just loaded including lines that have already been said etc.

 

If you have already done that though and are on Playstation/XBox then you may be able to clear the cache and see if that helps. There should be YouTube videos that show you how to do that easy enough if you take a look. 

Ah that's too bad I was hoping to keep my saves. Does pc not have a similar cache?

[jimmyoneshot]

1 minute ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Ah that's too bad I was hoping to keep my saves. Does pc not have a similar cache?

 

Ye I think so but I haven't had issues with it in a while. Another possible thing to try even though it sounds weird is this:-

• Start the game up fresh
• Select 'Story' on the main screen which will automatically load your latest save
• Once the save is loaded from here select Story > New Game in the menu to start a new game
• In the New Game create a save at the earliest possible point you can which means you will probably have to just quickly do the first mission and then save
• Restart the game altogether
• Again on the main screen select Story and this should load the save that you have just made
• Once the save is loaded from here load the save game that you were having issues with and see if the problem is fixed

I know it sounds bizarre but the idea is creating a save BEFORE any of those lines take place and then loading your later save from there may make the game not 'remember' the lines in question because loading from a save which was created after those lines took place may be the cause of the issue.

[luckycanadian95]

6 minutes ago, jimmyoneshot said:

 

Ye I think so but I haven't had issues with it in a while. Another possible thing to try even though it sounds weird is this:-

• Start the game up fresh
• Select 'Story' on the main screen which will automatically load your latest save
• Once the save is loaded from here select Story > New Game in the menu to start a new game
• In the New Game create a save at the earliest possible point you can which means you will probably have to just quickly do the first mission and then save
• Restart the game altogether
• Again on the main screen select Story and this should load the save that you have just made
• Once the save is loaded from here load the save game that you were having issues with and see if the problem is fixed

I know it sounds bizarre but the idea is creating a save BEFORE any of those lines take place and then loading your later save from there may make the game not 'remember' the lines in question because loading from a save which was created after those lines took place may be the cause of the issue.

Hmm sounds promising, thanks man I'll try that and also look into clearing the cache if possible. If all else fails I'll just delete the saves

[jimmyoneshot]

12 minutes ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Hmm sounds promising, thanks man I'll try that and also look into clearing the cache if possible. If all else fails I'll just delete the saves

No problem bud. Hope it helps because I like to keep my saves too sometimes ha.

[Sutliff]

12 hours ago, Buddy Hightower said:

lol you mean he raped her. 

Never thought of it like that, but thats probably right

3 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Btw does anyone know a solution to the bug where unique camp dialogue is replaced by the generic lines? It always seems to happen when I load a save in chapter one. Usually starting a new game will fix it but no luck this time.

For what ever reason, it is saved in your profile what lines have been heard instead of the regular save file.  If you delete your profile and the game comes back on where you have to adjust your screen brightness, that will give you all of the unique dialogue back when you play it again.

[Buddy Hightower]

9 hours ago, Sutliff said:

For what ever reason, it is saved in your profile what lines have been heard instead of the regular save file.  If you delete your profile and the game comes back on where you have to adjust your screen brightness, that will give you all of the unique dialogue back when you play it again.

I don't think it works like that, in fact I have heard the same exact dialog in the same playthrough more than once.

Like Hosea teaching Jack to read, I've seen that 3 or 4 times now in my current playthrough because I have been in chapter 2 for so long.

"What's a Kingdom?"  - where the king lives...

"I thought that was a castle?"

[Sutliff]

1 hour ago, Buddy Hightower said:

I don't think it works like that, in fact I have heard the same exact dialog in the same playthrough more than once.

Like Hosea teaching Jack to read, I've seen that 3 or 4 times now in my current playthrough because I have been in chapter 2 for so long.

"What's a Kingdom?"  - where the king lives...

"I thought that was a castle?"

I assumed Lucky was talking about Arthur initiated dialogue.  For example, you start a new game and your at camp colter, you will get the same dialogue you always do if you enter the building with John, Sadie, Grimshaw, ect of them talking to each other.  But when Arthur talks to Sadie directly, you will never hear her talk about the horse in her barn if you had previously heard it on your profile save in a different playthrough.  Thats what I thought he meant about unique dialogue anyway.  But if he is talking about gang member to gang member dialogue like your example, then you are right and I don't really know how to fix that one because they do seem to repeat on occasion.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Sutliff

[Buddy Hightower]

3 hours ago, Sutliff said:

But when Arthur talks to Sadie directly, you will never hear her talk about the horse in her barn if you had previously heard it on your profile save in a different playthrough.

Not sure that's true either. I have played through chapters 1 and 2 at least 30 times and hear the same old stuff all the time when Arthur talks to members.

I'm on xbox.

 

Example: Chapter 1 Arthur asks Javier how's it going and he will respond with "What kind of question is that?" or "Look at me, I'm freezing." (something like that)

Edited August 23, 2021 by Buddy Hightower

[luckycanadian95]

3 hours ago, Sutliff said:

I assumed Lucky was talking about Arthur initiated dialogue.  For example, you start a new game and your at camp colter, you will get the same dialogue you always do if you enter the building with John, Sadie, Grimshaw, ect of them talking to each other.  But when Arthur talks to Sadie directly, you will never hear her talk about the horse in her barn if you had previously heard it on your profile save in a different playthrough.  Thats what I thought he meant about unique dialogue anyway.  But if he is talking about gang member to gang member dialogue like your example, then you are right and I don't really know how to fix that one because they do seem to repeat on occasion.

Yeah it was only initiated dialogue. I play on pc so there's no profile to delete, unless you mean the rockstar account?

 

28 minutes ago, Buddy Hightower said:

Not sure that's true either. I have played through chapters 1 and 2 at least 30 times and hear the same old stuff all the time when Arthur talks to members.

I'm on xbox.

 

Example: Chapter 1 Arthur asks Javier how's it going and he will respond with "What kind of question is that?" or "Look at me, I'm freezing." (something like that)

They do repeat lines but only the generic ones as far as I know. Some responses are longer and add to the story, others are just short repeatable comments like in your example.

[Buddy Hightower]

1 hour ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Yeah it was only initiated dialogue. I play on pc so there's no profile to delete, unless you mean the rockstar account?

 

They do repeat lines but only the generic ones as far as I know. Some responses are longer and add to the story, others are just short repeatable comments like in your example.

I don't know, i find this a little hard to believe.

Where are we getting this from?

 

How can I test this out on xbox?

I assume if I delete all my saves, and can somehow delete this other file, that I would immediately know when I start a new playthrough if this is the case... 

[luckycanadian95]

34 minutes ago, Buddy Hightower said:

I don't know, i find this a little hard to believe.

Where are we getting this from?

 

How can I test this out on xbox?

I assume if I delete all my saves, and can somehow delete this other file, that I would immediately know when I start a new playthrough if this is the case... 

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean. What do you find hard to believe?

[Buddy Hightower]

16 minutes ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean. What do you find hard to believe?

That the game keeps track on conversations in other playthroughs and thus does not play those conversations in your current one.

I find that hard to believe because it makes no sense.

[luckycanadian95]

7 minutes ago, Buddy Hightower said:

That the game keeps track on conversations in other playthroughs and thus does not play those conversations in your current one.

I find that hard to believe because it makes no sense.

I agree that it makes no sense but it seems to be the case unfortunately. The easiest way to test would be to start a new game (don't delete your saves) and talk to Hosea in the cabin right after you rescue John. If the game doesn't remember your other playthrough, Arthur will say 'we weren't there Hosea'. But if it does remember he'll say something else like 'hey Hosea' because it thinks you already had this conversation. 

Then if you want you can try deleting all your saves which should restore the original dialogue.

[Sutliff]

3 hours ago, luckycanadian95 said:

Yeah it was only initiated dialogue. I play on pc so there's no profile to delete, unless you mean the rockstar account?

 

They do repeat lines but only the generic ones as far as I know. Some responses are longer and add to the story, others are just short repeatable comments like in your example.

I play on PS4 so I only know about that.  I think it is the same issue I had about a year ago, because I would only delete the games save files and I would notice dialogue I didn't get anymore when starting a new game.  Luckily, all the files in PS4 are in one place so I would delete everything, profile included in that area instead of just the save files and all Arthur initiated dialogue was back for me. 

 

I don't think its a rockstar account, on the PS4 it just says RDR2 profile and then I would have to adjust the screen brightness likes its a brand new game.

I have no idea why that dialogue is being saved there, frankly I think its stupid but it fixed my problem by deleting that file.  I wish I could be more help if I played the PC version.

[BrandyNova]

1 hour ago, Buddy Hightower said:

That the game keeps track on conversations in other playthroughs and thus does not play those conversations in your current one.

I find that hard to believe because it makes no sense.

Hey Buddy,

I play on PC, never on xbox, and this happens to me all the time.  It doesn't happen to all conversations, but when I find I'm getting only generic responses, then I quit out of the game and relaunch.  (I tend to reload the same save file repeatedly to replay an event or mission).   Occasionally, that doesn't fix it either, and I have to delete my previous save file and replay those missions to get back to that point of interest again.   My theory is that there is a flag that is getting set as to whether a dialogue happens, which is saved it local memory, then saved with a save game file.   Deleting previous save files or relaunching is the only way I've found to remedy the situation.  However, in one case in chapter 3, I wasn't willing to go back that far, so I just had to live with it.  It was really maddening.  

[jimmyoneshot]

28 minutes ago, BrandyNova said:

Hey Buddy,

I play on PC, never on xbox, and this happens to me all the time.  It doesn't happen to all conversations, but when I find I'm getting only generic responses, then I quit out of the game and relaunch.  (I tend to reload the same save file repeatedly to replay an event or mission).   Occasionally, that doesn't fix it either, and I have to delete my previous save file and replay those missions to get back to that point of interest again.   My theory is that there is a flag that is getting set as to whether a dialogue happens, which is saved it local memory, then saved with a save game file.   Deleting previous save files or relaunching is the only way I've found to remedy the situation.  However, in one case in chapter 3, I wasn't willing to go back that far, so I just had to live with it.  It was really maddening.  

Ye this is pretty much it I suspect too. Basically if you load a game in Chapter 3 for example the game will store in local memory all of the conversations and camp interactions that you have had up to that point so that they don't get repeated, likely because there are interactions that can happen in multiple chapters. The problem is when you then load a save in Chapter 1 from there this data will remain in the local memory and the game will then act as though you have had those conversations even though you haven't yet.

 

This is why it's so bloody silly that we can't just select a game to load straight from the initial game screen especially with so many games having memory leaks and so much stuff that neds to be remembered from save to save.

 

Another definite example of a memory leak that I've came across is Arthur being wet after the rain. If you load up a save, the weather is dry as hell, then it starts raining by chance and Arthur gets soaked and you then reload the same save you just loaded up Arthur and the area will be soaked even though the weather may now be back to being dry. This is because Arthur and the area being wet from the rain gets incorrectly stored in local memory. However if you get soaked and then restart the game altogether and load the save back up he will be dry because the local memory was cleared. Common with a lot of games but definitely a bug.

Edited August 23, 2021 by jimmyoneshot

[luckycanadian95]

48 minutes ago, Sutliff said:

I play on PS4 so I only know about that.  I think it is the same issue I had about a year ago, because I would only delete the games save files and I would notice dialogue I didn't get anymore when starting a new game.  Luckily, all the files in PS4 are in one place so I would delete everything, profile included in that area instead of just the save files and all Arthur initiated dialogue was back for me. 

 

I don't think its a rockstar account, on the PS4 it just says RDR2 profile and then I would have to adjust the screen brightness likes its a brand new game.

I have no idea why that dialogue is being saved there, frankly I think its stupid but it fixed my problem by deleting that file.  I wish I could be more help if I played the PC version.

I might need to figure out where those files are stored on pc because I deleted all my saves (nothing else worked), relaunched the game, and started a new story with a clean slate, but only half the characters got their unique dialogue back. Dutch, Hosea, Susan, Mary-Beth, Sadie, and John are fine but no one else... So the game is still holding the information somewhere. This is getting frustrating I've never encountered this before 

Thanks for the help though I appreciate it.

Edited August 23, 2021 by luckycanadian95