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Guest Guest176525326

Robbing the shops should be more realistic

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Nutduster

This is a weakness in many (maybe most) games where you can both buy from a vendor and rob them.  Same in all the GTA games actually - the famous reputation of GTA as a game where you can buy a prostitute and then beat her to get your money back was never accurate, because she would always drop a normal, random amount of cash like any pedestrian, usually less than you paid her. 

 

It would be a nice touch if they actually had your money in the register, but in the end it's a very insignificant detail IMO.

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Smokewood
12 minutes ago, Jason said:

Okay you also have completely misunderstood what I said.

 

Earned, yes. I don't mean working 9 till 5 farming a field earned, I mean earned through playing and advancing through the game. Completing the Valentine bank heist for example earns you a lot of money. Earns.

 

Progression is a massive part of games, earning your power and wealth as you advance through the game. Allowing things like being able to buy everything in the game with your starting cash defeats the point. It'd take away a lot of the games progression.

Nonsense.

You can rob strangers all damn day in chapter 2 and have as much money as you want.

Completing or even doing any of the story at all (after chapter 1) is 100% optional.

So if I sit in chapter 2 for a month and just rob people until I have $20,000 would that make it more immersive?

 

Look, I understand your point 100% - it just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

I don't want to split hairs but your definition of "earned" is questionable. 

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djb204
1 hour ago, Smokewood said:

Not really.

If I hand you $100 and you put it in your pocket and then I rob you and you only have $5 in your pocket, that is an immersion killer.

Depends how you look at it. If you see 10 items you really want to buy (all $100 each), and you do a few missions or robberies collecting $100, instead of buying one of the items, you want to be able to purchase, rob, rinse and repeat until you have all 10 items valued at $1000? Why bother developing an economy/in-game currency? Your argument suggests you want the game to just give you EVERYTHING after 1 mission.

Edited by djb204

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Smokewood
2 minutes ago, djb204 said:

Depends how you look at it. If you see 10 items you really want to buy (all $100 each), and you do a few missions or robberies collecting $100, instead of buying one of the items, you want to be able to purchase, rob, rinse and repeat until you have all 10 items valued at $1000? Why bother developing an economy/in-game currency? Your argument suggests you want the game to just give you EVERYTHING after 1 mission.

Nonsense - you are having a very hard time understanding this.

I don't need to do any missions... this isn't a damn theme-park MMORPG.

It's an open world simulator which happens to have a story in it if you wish to do it.

Yes I want to rob for $1000 - I am choosing the gunshop as what I want to rob.

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Jason

Making thousands from robbing NPC's in Chapter 2 is not practical, it would take a hundred hours to farm enough to be able to buy everything in the game. Buying stuff from a shop, killing the shopkeeper and then hightailing it to another shop would take no where near as long.

 

Rockstar want you to earn money in the game through content, either main story missions or side content such as treasure hunts. They want to progress by playing that type of content, not in ways that could be perceived as cheesy or cheap.

 

1 minute ago, Smokewood said:

I don't need to do any missions... this isn't a damn theme-park MMORPG.

It's an open world simulator which happens to have a story in it if you wish to do it.

Not only is the game not a simulator in any shape or form it is in fact much closer to a theme park open world game, if you wanna use that definition. Almost all of the games dynamism and the worlds life is built on very scripted sequences and actions.

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Mach1bud
13 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

Nonsense.

You can rob strangers all damn day in chapter 2 and have as much money as you want.

Completing or even doing any of the story at all (after chapter 1) is 100% optional.

So if I sit in chapter 2 for a month and just rob people until I have $20,000 would that make it more immersive?

 

Look, I understand your point 100% - it just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

I don't want to split hairs but your definition of "earned" is questionable. 

So in other words, you don't understand the point in including a currency/economy in any game, ever.

 

1 minute ago, Smokewood said:

Nonsense - you are having a very hard time understanding this.

I don't need to do any missions... this isn't a damn theme-park MMORPG.

It's an open world simulator which happens to have a story in it if you wish to do it.

Yes I want to rob for $1000 - I am choosing the gunshop as what I want to rob.

No it's not an open world simulator. Its not a sandbox where you can just do whatever you want. You are very specifically living the life of a specific gang member. You are living his story, not your own.

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Nutduster

The solution that might satisfy everyone here would be to simply implement better risk/reward.  The more money a shop's register contains for whatever reason, the more of a fight they should put up.  They should shoot at you right away if you try to rob them, and yell for local law enforcement to surround the shop before you can get away.  Or spawn a couple of "assistants" out back who pin you in the shop - blocking a rear exit, yelling for help, shooting at you through the windows. Increase the risk to life and limb (and your precious stolen loot), scaled according to what you're getting away with.  If you buy so much stuff that the shop has $500 on hand, it should be damn near impossible to get away with it. 

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Jason
1 minute ago, Nutduster said:

The solution that might satisfy everyone here would be to simply implement better risk/reward.  The more money a shop's register contains for whatever reason, the more of a fight they should put up.  They should shoot at you right away if you try to rob them, and yell for local law enforcement to surround the shop before you can get away.  Or spawn a couple of "assistants" out back who pin you in the shop - blocking a rear exit, yelling for help, shooting at you through the windows. Increase the risk to life and limb (and your precious stolen loot), scaled according to what you're getting away with.  If you buy so much stuff that the shop has $500 on hand, it should be damn near impossible to get away with it. 

Yea pretty much. Robbing in general could be more rewarding for people who wanna earn their money through robberies, open world bank robberies, or high value stage coaches or something. Robbing back money you just spent at a gun or clothes store just defeats the purpose of earning money in any of the other ways, though.

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Nutduster
3 minutes ago, Jason said:

Yea pretty much. Robbing in general could be more rewarding for people who wanna earn their money through robberies, open world bank robberies, or high value stage coaches or something. Robbing back money you just spent at a gun or clothes store just defeats the purpose of earning money in any of the other ways, though.

 

To some extent, though a lot of the higher-value things are strictly available from vendors you can't rob (trapper, fence, stable) anyway.  The gunsmith is the main exception to this.  And I guess the general store if you buy a lot of clothes, but the other stuff there is pretty cheap anyway, most of it costing just a dollar or two.

Edited by Nutduster

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Jason
1 minute ago, Nutduster said:

To some extent, though a lot of the higher-value things are strictly available from vendors you can't rob (trapper, fence, stable) anyway.  The gunsmith is the main exception to this.

Aye but lets say if you could rob the Gunsmith and get the money you just spent back you should be able to rob any other vendor, cause immersion.

 

When it comes to immersion you can go deeper and deeper and deeper with no end, even if you're well past the "it's no longer fun" stage. At some point you just have to say this is deep enough and then balance the game around that.

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Smokewood
17 minutes ago, Mach1bud said:

No it's not an open world simulator. Its not a sandbox where you can just do whatever you want. You are very specifically living the life of a specific gang member. You are living his story, not your own.

Complete nonsense - the story is 100% optional. That's even a selling point for the game (and gta for that matter). Tons of people will never finish the story.

12 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

The solution that might satisfy everyone here would be to simply implement better risk/reward.  The more money a shop's register contains for whatever reason, the more of a fight they should put up.  They should shoot at you right away if you try to rob them, and yell for local law enforcement to surround the shop before you can get away.  Or spawn a couple of "assistants" out back who pin you in the shop - blocking a rear exit, yelling for help, shooting at you through the windows. Increase the risk to life and limb (and your precious stolen loot), scaled according to what you're getting away with.  If you buy so much stuff that the shop has $500 on hand, it should be damn near impossible to get away with it. 

You understand....

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TyrionV
4 hours ago, Smokewood said:

Wait a minute... I have stolen every penny I have in game. We all have!

Nah, I’ve been paid for collecting bounties and given things for doing tasks that I’ve then sold on. 

 

I’ve yet to rob a shop, stagecoach, train or anyone else when not part of a mission!

 

 

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imburgundy
Just now, Smokewood said:

Complete nonsense - the story is 100% optional. That's even a selling point for the game (and gta for that matter). Tons of people will never finish the story.

No, you need to complete the prologue so technically it's not 100% optional. It's optional if you want to finish the story but you are very much playing the story. I do agree with you that you should be able rob your money back but then it should be extremely difficult to get away with it as someone already mentioned. Also if you can rob everything back then if you get killed by bounty hunters or marshalls then you should also lose all your weapons too. I'm sure people wouldn't like that very much

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Nutduster
1 minute ago, imburgundy said:

No, you need to complete the prologue so technically it's not 100% optional. It's optional if you want to finish the story but you are very much playing the story. I do agree with you that you should be able rob your money back but then it should be extremely difficult to get away with it as someone already mentioned. Also if you can rob everything back then if you get killed by bounty hunters or marshalls then you should also lose all your weapons too. I'm sure people wouldn't like that very much

 

That's always the flip side of this whole realism argument.  If you go that far in a way that benefits the player, do you also go that far in a way that inconveniences them?  Of course there's an argument to be made that sometimes this game DOES go that far... pickpockets will take hundreds off you if you have that much to take, and apparently there are some NPCs who will rob you of every cent!

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djb204
31 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

Nonsense - you are having a very hard time understanding this.

I don't need to do any missions... this isn't a damn theme-park MMORPG.

It's an open world simulator which happens to have a story in it if you wish to do it.

Yes I want to rob for $1000 - I am choosing the gunshop as what I want to rob.

In the end Rockstar prevented an exploit that you want to abuse. That’s the plain simple truth.

31 minutes ago, Mach1bud said:

You are very specifically living the life of a specific gang member. You are living his story, not your own.

EXACTLY 

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imburgundy
3 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

 

That's always the flip side of this whole realism argument.  If you go that far in a way that benefits the player, do you also go that far in a way that inconveniences them?  Of course there's an argument to be made that sometimes this game DOES go that far... pickpockets will take hundreds off you if you have that much to take, and apparently there are some NPCs who will rob you of every cent!

I got robbed in Van Horn going into the saloon for like $150 and as I ran out to chase him I accidentally got on the wrong horse and every NPC in the vicinity starting shooting at me and the guy got lost in all the other red dots taking my money with him. I was pretty pissed off but also I f*ckin loved it

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Smokewood
5 minutes ago, djb204 said:

In the end Rockstar prevented an exploit that you want to abuse. That’s the plain simple truth.

 

I don't want to do it, I am saying that it should be doable.

I play the game as a white hat, I don't rob anyone but that's my preference.

I'm simply playing devil's advocate because the OP is/was right.

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Mach1bud
14 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

Complete nonsense - the story is 100% optional. That's even a selling point for the game (and gta for that matter). Tons of people will never finish the story.

Uh no, it's not. You have to be Arthur. You have to be in the gang. You have to live this man's life whether or not you want to or if you choose to advance the story or not. The game is story driven and tailored to the character you play as, regardless if it's a mission or freeroam. They are connected.

 

Just because many people lack the competence or patience to finish the main storyline doesn't change the fact that they are indeed playing a set role, including in freeroam.

 

You think this is a free for all sandbox, but it isn't. 

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Smokewood
4 minutes ago, Mach1bud said:

Uh no, it's not. You have to be Arthur. You have to be in the gang. You have to live this man's life whether or not you want to or if you choose to advance the story or not. The game is story driven and tailored to the character you play as, regardless if it's a mission or freeroam. They are connected.

 

Just because many people lack the competence or patience to finish the main storyline doesn't change the fact that they are indeed playing a set role, including in freeroam.

 

You think this is a free for all sandbox, but it isn't. 

yes it is...sorry you are just plain wrong here.

 

Yes, I have to be Arthur - but that's it.

I don't ever have to go back to the camp or see any of the gang after chapter 1.

I can ride into the sunset and make my own story.

I can live off the land and be a damn ranger if I want to be.

Show me where I'm wrong....

 

I know lots of people in GTAV who have never done any quest after the first 3 non-skippable ones.

They simply hate the constraints of the story and do whatever they want.

 

I would never do this because I love the story both in RDR2 and GTAV - but it is possible and to act like it isn't is being intellectually dishonest.

 

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Jason

It makes sense from an immersion aspect but like I said it doesn't make sense from a design and balancing aspect, as least with how the game currently works.

 

One way that it could probably work and not break the games economy is if shop keepers didn't respawn, you kill the shop keeper and that's that, that shop's closed for the rest of the game. Shop keepers not respawning would work for immersion too.

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imburgundy
10 minutes ago, Smokewood said:

yes it is...sorry you are just plain wrong here.

 

Yes, I have to be Arthur - but that's it.

I don't ever have to go back to the camp or see any of the gang after chapter 1.

I can ride into the sunset and make my own story.

I can live off the land and be a damn ranger if I want to be.

Show me where I'm wrong....

Well not sure if you are wrong but I was off hunting for days one time and Charles came and found me and told me Dutch wanted to talk to me and it gave me an option to go back to camp and it fast traveled me back to camp. I wonder if I had said no to that what would have happened. Maybe you do have to carry on the story not very sure because I went back to camp with Charles but gang members definitely do come looking for you. If anyone refused to go back on here let me know because I wonder what happens. Again not denying your claim but this pushed me to continue the story.

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durkahdurkah

Should you be able to rob the register for you money back? Yes, that would be realistic.

is it a good mechanic, and one that Rockstar should add? Obviously not, it makes money pointless. You would be utilising other unrealistic mechanics to make use of this "realistic" one to buy everything in the game for virtually little money. E.g. Repeatedly robbing the same shop owner over and over again for your money back, and in the process get everything for free. 

 

If this mechanic was in the game, there would have to be some way of policing it to stop people exploiting it. Because a large percentage would... like the shop owner remembering you and refusing to serve you next time? Or ever again? Or the town you did the robbery in to bar you from entering ever again? Those preventions are far more drastic and damage gameplay. It's a game, and immersion needs to be broken sometimes. 

 

You know what else is immersion breaking? The fact that I can kill an entire towns worth of people, pay $500, and everyone is cool with me.. apart from the occasional "no more trouble from you please mister" comment from a passer by. 

 

Rockstar got it right with the realism. anymore realistic and it would have damaged the game.

 

 

 

 

Edited by durkahdurkah
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MjrOu812

It would have been more realistic and meaningful if there wasn't so many gold bars scattered throughout the game world...why knock off a shop for 25 to 40 bucks, the risk is greater then the reward? And just to note, I am only in chapter 3 with about 5 grand in my pocket.🤑

Edited by MjrOu812

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Jason
13 minutes ago, MjrOu812 said:

It would have been more realistic and meaningful if there wasn't so many gold bars scattered throughout the game world...why knock off a shop for 25 to 40 bucks, the risk is greater then the reward? And just to note, I am only in chapter 3 with about 5 grand in my pocket.🤑

Yea Rockstar break the games economy pretty early anyway, even if you don't do side stuff. Chapter 3 basically earns you everything you need to buy what you want. They've always done this in all their open world games though, you've always had way more money than you can spend. I'm not entirely sure why they do it tbh, one of the biggest complaints in any GTA not long after launch is that people have nothing to spend their money on.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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MjrOu812
21 minutes ago, Jason said:

Yea Rockstar break the games economy pretty early anyway, even if you don't do side stuff. Chapter 3 basically earns you everything you need to buy what you want. They've always done this in all their open world games though, you've always had way more money than you can spend. I'm not entirely sure why they do it tbh, one of the biggest complaints in any GTA not long after launch is that people have nothing to spend their money on.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There is such a big gap between the first game to the sequel....hell the first game your trying everything you can just to stay ahead? Its not till your deep into mexico when you have a good chunk of change.

Edited by MjrOu812

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Jason
6 minutes ago, MjrOu812 said:

There is such a big gap between the first game to the sequel....hell the first game your trying everything you can just to stay ahead? Its not till your deep into mexico when you have a good chunk of change.

There's some cheese stuff in RDR1 though. You can just murder a few pack of wolves and sell the furs for mad money.

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Mach1bud
Just now, Jason said:

There's some cheese stuff in RDR1 though. You can just murder a few pack of wolves and sell the furs for mad money.

Plus it also has Treasure you can find pretty much right away.

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MjrOu812
1 hour ago, Jason said:

There's some cheese stuff in RDR1 though. You can just murder a few pack of wolves and sell the furs for mad money.

Yep that is true?😁

Edited by MjrOu812

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djb204
2 hours ago, Jason said:

It makes sense from an immersion aspect but like I said it doesn't make sense from a design and balancing aspect, as least with how the game currently works.

 

One way that it could probably work and not break the games economy is if shop keepers didn't respawn, you kill the shop keeper and that's that, that shop's closed for the rest of the game. Shop keepers not respawning would work for immersion too.

Yup, they want it more realistic then then their bounty wouldn’t be payable. They would have to face the justice system for their crimes. Prison and probably a hanging.

 

If Arthur dies in anyway the game is over. No respawns.

 

If you crash on your horse you have permanent injuries. Broken leg, rib, arm, etc.

 

1 maybe 2 bullets and your in serious trouble. Seek a doctor for surgery or your gonna die.

 

There is so many things that aren’t realistic, but implementing these things into the game for the sake of immersion? I don’t think so.

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bish0p2004
4 hours ago, Smokewood said:

Nonsense - you are having a very hard time understanding this.

I don't need to do any missions... this isn't a damn theme-park MMORPG.

It's an open world simulator which happens to have a story in it if you wish to do it.

Yes I want to rob for $1000 - I am choosing the gunshop as what I want to rob.

 

I agree.  I understand that it's due to design, but Rockstar even designed this game in such a way that it punishes the player for going too far in the story and at the same time, not going far enough.  The way they are headed with their open world games (since GTA V) seems to be more of a linear path where you can no longer shoot in interiors unless you do it a certain way, and you can only walk in certain places like the camp instead of run.  It's really weird the way they're designing their open world games now....like they're too focused on the story and you have to almost act accordingly to the way they want you to play unless you just go full psycho.

Edited by bish0p2004

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