Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. PC
      2. Gameplay
      3. Missions
      4. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Gameplay
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
      4. Frontier Pursuits
    1. Crews & Posses

      1. Recruitment
    2. Events

    1. GTA Online

      1. Diamond Casino & Resort
      2. DLC
      3. Find Lobbies & Players
      4. Guides & Strategies
      5. Vehicles
      6. Content Creator
      7. Help & Support
    2. Grand Theft Auto Series

    3. GTA 6

    4. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    5. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA IV Mods
    6. GTA Chinatown Wars

    7. GTA Vice City Stories

    8. GTA Liberty City Stories

    9. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA SA Mods
    10. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA VC Mods
    11. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA III Mods
    12. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    13. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption

    2. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. News

    2. Forum Support

    3. Site Suggestions

Journey_95

[RDR2 Spoilers] What would you change about Red Dead Redemption's story in hindsight?

Recommended Posts

happygrowls

It's referred in RDR1 that he left the gang after a failed boat robbery, the one in Blackwater specifically. But it's annoyingly retconned to



the Train Robbery from Chapter 6

I'd change that, and maybe include a few references to Armadillo and Tumbleweed's 1907 appearance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shadowfennekin

I'd make Javier's role bigger.

He has such a minor role 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Typhus

Honestly, I keep trying to get enthusiastic about the story but something is just off for me. I think it's because Dutch's ideals feel too modern, so the whole gang feels out of time and kind of hokey.

But honestly, there's too much I'd like to change and I can't just list off every problem I had with the game's narrative. So I'll just leave it at saying that with the added RPG elements, I would have rather played as a complete blank slate who could do missions for different factions, and just let the world itself tell the story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HockeyMike24
On 11/14/2018 at 7:36 PM, The1raven said:

Actually that's just when some members of the gang started to notice.  It was there right from the start.  Maybe not so out in the open.  But definitely there.  Of course, I admit, I'm hypersensitive to Dutch's kind.  That's why I'm not bashing the story telling.  R* and Dutch's voice actor really conveyed the subtleties of his personality very well.

 

He was never a good man.  Just better at pretending to be so.

Try to look at it from Arthur and John's perspective. They were kids from broken homes and Dutch took them in to teach them how to read and gave them a life worth living. Even during Arthur's first robbery they gave a lot of the bank robbery money to a local orphanage.

 

Dutch's mental health slowly started to decline after he killed an innocent woman in Blackwater. But since then he was a pretty good man, for an outlaw at least. This is why it takes so long for Arthur and John to turn on him, he raised them and was like a father to them. 

 

Arthur never gave up on Dutch, right to the end. Where John believed he might have always been a bad man playing a life long con.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Journey_95
4 hours ago, Typhus said:

Honestly, I keep trying to get enthusiastic about the story but something is just off for me. I think it's because Dutch's ideals feel too modern, so the whole gang feels out of time and kind of hokey.

But honestly, there's too much I'd like to change and I can't just list off every problem I had with the game's narrative. So I'll just leave it at saying that with the added RPG elements, I would have rather played as a complete blank slate who could do missions for different factions, and just let the world itself tell the story.

Wait this is about RDR1's story, I assume you are just talking about RDR2? Anyway I disagree, Dutch's ideals being different from what people usually thought back then is the point and a blank slate would be such a regression from Arthur who is easily one of the best written Rockstar protagonist. Your idea seems more like what RDR2 Online will be like

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MadHammerThorsteen
5 hours ago, HockeyMike24 said:

Dutch's mental health slowly started to decline after he killed an innocent woman in Blackwater. But since then he was a pretty good man, for an outlaw at least.

 

I wouldn't say his mental health declined "slowly" at all. This was all over the course of several months within the same year. Essentially late Winter into Summer.

 

I would also contend that it wasn't an issue of mental health at all. By the end, Arthur essentially concludes that the only way Dutch could've made such a swift switch in character is that Dutch, despite his appearances up until that point, had always had it in him to be that way. I take this as Arthur's opinion also standing in for how Rockstar truly feels about Dutch. Even until the end of RDR, he was a ruthless survivor. You don't survive the way he did under the decline of mental health.

 

The only difference between the Dutch everyone thought they knew and the Dutch that emerged during the course of RDR2 was control. Dutch was undoubtedly a charismatic and gregarious leader in his younger years, with much more self-control and much more efficacity. But if you read Arthur's journal, it's actually pretty clear that by the time they reached Blackwater, Dutch alread had them on the wrong path and didn't know where to go next. Not because of mental health, but because of the inevitability of their situation with the rapid encroachment of civilization. Dutch was sharp enough to foresee that doom, which is why he became rash, and which is why his mantra became "they will not catch me". He already sensed the possibility.

 

As a consequence of that level of pressure, and because he was getting older, he started losing his ability to plan smart. And you couldn't completely blame him. The gang's situation was becoming predestined by forces beyond the. In the end, Dutch spoke true when he told John, "You can't fight it".

 

As a further consequence of such restrictive circumstances and in light of his foresight, Dutch began to realize he could no longer have his cake and eat it, too. He couldn't pretend to be the good guy much longer, and started dispensing with his charismatic ways. As every action he took, despite his ruthless assuredness, brought them closer to doom rather than further from it, and as everyone became less certain of his leadership (excepting Bill and Javier), the mask of congenial and benign dictatorship slipped.

 

Dutch ultimately built that family not for them, but for him. He needed them. He needed to be wanted and to be looked up to. Because of that, he did good things for the people who showed him loyalty. Which isn't to say he didn't truly care for them--for a while. When life was easier, it was easier to do it all with a smile and a wink. But when that started slipping from his hands, he got reckless because in the end, it was only ever about him.

 

Dutch didn't go mad. The mask simply cracked, and the cult leader who appeared to be miracle worker revealed himself to be an exacting and wicked sorceror.

Edited by MatthewIRL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Journey_95
On 11/15/2018 at 8:35 AM, AddamHusayin said:

Maybe not going so far as to personally kill Milton but somehow undermine him or cause him to somehow get killed. For some reason I just thought there would be far more depth to Milton but he's pretty much just obligatory new Pinkerton character who just dies with little to no impact. He could've just shown up right there at the end for the first time. His only purpose is really to tell Arthur that Micah was the rat. Why he tells him this and in the manner that he does so is a little too convenient. I guess what I'm saying is it could've been executed better. 

True, Milton was kind of bland and barely used but the real villians of the game were Dutch and Micah imho. Milton wasnt't supposed to be Ross 2.0 (who was clearly the main bad guy in RDR1). I think it fits well, no need for rehashes

Edited by Journey_95

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AddamHusayin
3 hours ago, Journey_95 said:

True, Milton was kind of bland and barely used but the real villians of the game were Dutch and Micah imho. Milton wasnt't supposed to be Ross 2.0 (who was clearly the main bad guy in RDR1). I think it fits well, no need for rehashes

Exactly, he's not supposed to be Ross 2.0 but it comes off that way and he doesn't need to be a rehash. Just not bland and barely used. His haircut was probably the only other notable thing about him and that's just because it was unusual for those people at the time lol I looted him and he had $2.63 on him not like Ross who had a lot more money

Edited by AddamHusayin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JC_HUMBLE

Just a little change to this line...

 

Bill to John: Well, things are different now, John... Now, I'm in charge! No more Dutch, no more ARTHUR, and no more you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wolfboy20
On 11/14/2018 at 3:03 PM, feckyerlife said:

That's why i am hoping we are getting a Remake of RDR1 for a DLC.. Too many new characters added without knowing what happens to them. Based on the first game you think the gang is mainly just Dutch,Uncle, Javier, bill, John and a couple other peons. But after playing this game you found out its much much more, that its really one giant big dysfunctional family.  John had a good relation with a lot of these guys, which makes RDR1 feel a bit hollow when it comes to the rest of the gang and him acting like the only ones he dealt with were those 4..  I havent finished RDR2 yet so im not sure how the story will grow ( i am in the middle/end of chapter 3). But as of right now i barely see any relationship with John and Bill like i do with john and javier. but when and going back looking at RDR1, with john chasing down javier makes some sense, but  the role Bill played feels like it would've been better suited for MIcah.

They will never remake RDR1...that will be too much work and it will not be a simple copy and paste job...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • 1 User Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 1 Guest

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.