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Journey_95

Vote for RDR2 in The Game Awards

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josephene123
40 minutes ago, Mostly_Red said:

GoW was never in the middle of controversies 

 

No dlc's 

No mtx

No 100h working weeks 

 

Just an extremely well made game without BS 

What? Don't you see that's exactly what I'm saying? Though I suspect we're kidding ourselves to believe there were no 100h working weeks at Santa Monica...

 

Echoing what I've said before - 

 

Rockstar is the quintessential AAA developer, with hundreds of millions $ backing them. And yes, they have silly 'free' DLCs, they have made unbelievable quantities from micro-transactions, they already had a reputation for poor working environment - only added to by the 100h working weeks controversy, they are owned by Take Two, etc etc. Everyone expected a masterpiece from RDR 2, and that's what we got. It exceeded my expectations but nobody was expecting anything but. 

 

Santa Monica is a much smaller team, with a much smaller budget - with reports of them struggling to make ends meet. As you say - they produced an extremely well made single player only (something I think was very important) game exclusive to PS4 without any BS and no hints of it coming any time soon. It was a huge hit and rightly so. You might think exclusivity to PS4 isn't a big deal, but I think that when a game exclusive to Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo is really good, it is elevated even higher by that prestige. 

 

If you follow gaming, it shouldn't be hard to guess which of these is more endearing especially in a time when there is such a fight against 'online only' and publishers like EA and Take Two's push for mtx everywhere. I think GoW won because of these politics and discussion trends. It's natural to cheer for David, against the Goliath - and that is absolutely fine. I'm glad GoW won because Santa Monica achieved a superb single-player only game (without any bullsh*t) in a time when those are few and far between, and I'm hoping GoW's legacy will be more studios with similar scope to Santa Monica being encouraged to focus on more focused single player experiences as opposed to empty, online-only open world's, lacking in depth. 

 

But which game was more impressive to experience? RDR 2, and not even close. GoW is still incredible but I don't feel it innovated too much. 

Edited by josephene123
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Mostly_Red
33 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

Except milking the franchise for probably two more games for 120$.

 

 

Good. Because it doesn't have a multiplayer mode and therefore has no right to use microtransactions. RDR2 had no Microtransactions in it's already more content-filled SP. 

 

 

If you think R* is the only company with crunch you're heavily wrong my friend. They are just the only one talking about it in the public. We already know the Santa Monica staff were under pressure during the whole development and if  GOW wasn't successful(After The Order 1886) They would basically be in serious trouble. Also we have heard how Sony gave barlog sh*t at the beginning for trying to change the franchise. But do you know what's the difference between this and R* situation? It's the fact that Barlog posted a video of himself crying and now the whole world sympathize with the devs instead of bashing them like R*. Santa Monica were simply smarter. They victimized themselves and won the crowd. Probably another one of the reasons they won the award. Ppl definitely sympathize more with them than a wealthy resourceful company like R*. 

 

The Order was not made by Santa Monica 

 

So, people love GoW because SSM played the victim role.... 

 

Sure... 

34 minutes ago, josephene123 said:

What? Don't you see that's exactly what I'm saying? Though I suspect we're kidding ourselves to believe there were no 100h working weeks at Santa Monica...

 

Echoing what I've said before - 

 

Rockstar is the quintessential AAA developer, with hundreds of millions $ backing them. And yes, they have silly 'free' DLCs, they have made unbelievable quantities from micro-transactions, they already had a reputation for poor working environment - only added to by the 100h working weeks controversy, they are owned by Take Two, etc etc. Everyone expected a masterpiece from RDR 2, and that's what we got. It exceeded my expectations but nobody was expecting anything but. 

 

Santa Monica is a much smaller team, with a much smaller budget - with reports of them struggling to make ends meet. As you say - they produced an extremely well made single player only (something I think was very important) game exclusive to PS4 without any BS and no hints of it coming any time soon. It was a huge hit and rightly so. You might think exclusivity to PS4 isn't a big deal, but I think that when a game exclusive to Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo is really good, it is elevated even higher by that prestige. 

 

If you follow gaming, it shouldn't be hard to guess which of these is more endearing especially in a time when there is such a fight against 'online only' and publishers like EA and Take Two's push for mtx everywhere. I think GoW won because of these politics and discussion trends. It's natural to cheer for David, against the Goliath - and that is absolutely fine. I'm glad GoW won because Santa Monica achieved a superb single-player only game (without any bullsh*t) in a time when those are few and far between, and I'm hoping GoW's legacy will be more studios with similar scope to Santa Monica being encouraged to focus on more focused single player experiences as opposed to empty, online-only open world's, lacking in depth. 

 

But which game was more impressive to experience? RDR 2, and not even close. GoW is still incredible but I don't feel it innovated too much. 

RDR 2 did nothing new

 

Impressive work and scope, but nothing new. A big a better version of RDR 

 

GoW had a completely take on the series and even had the "no cut camera" thing 

 

But true innovation is hard these days on the triple A space 

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josephene123

@Mostly_Red 

 

There is utterly no point in discussing if you are going to dismiss everything I just said with something as asinine as 'RDR 2 did nothing new".

 

So fine. 

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TheSantader25
7 minutes ago, Mostly_Red said:

 

The Order was not made by Santa Monica 

 

So, people love GoW because SSM played the victim role.... 

 

Sure... 

RDR 2 did nothing new

 

Impressive work and scope, but nothing new. A big a better version of RDR 

 

GoW had a completely take on the series and even had the "no cut camera" thing 

 

But true innovation is hard these days on the triple A space 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIE_Santa_Monica_Studio

 

That's not the only reason people love GOW. why do you overreact? Are you insecure or something? That's just one of the reasons GOW had an edge over RDR2. a complete non game related and IRL reason. 

 

"No cut Camera thing" is nothing interesting. It's just a way of story telling available exclusively to GOW just for being about GODs. What's important is lowering the loading times and not having loading times which a bigger game like RDR2  and even TLOU do better. Like I said before. GOW just changed "itself" and that brings nothing for the industry. 

 

The alive camp in RDR2, Absolutely realistic Animal behavior, NPC routines, NPCs remembering your actions and almost natural open world encounters are what RDR2 did. 

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Mostly_Red
24 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIE_Santa_Monica_Studio

 

That's not the only reason people love GOW. why do you overreact? Are you insecure or something? That's just one of the reasons GOW had an edge over RDR2. a complete non game related and IRL reason. 

 

"No cut Camera thing" is nothing interesting. It's just a way of story telling available exclusively to GOW just for being about GODs. What's important is lowering the loading times and not having loading times which a bigger game like RDR2  and even TLOU do better. Like I said before. GOW just changed "itself" and that brings nothing for the industry. 

 

The alive camp in RDR2, Absolutely realistic Animal behavior, NPC routines, NPCs remembering your actions and almost natural open world encounters are what RDR2 did. 

The camera thing was new and bold. 

Not even TLOU did that. 

 

The camp? The npcs? The random stuff? All scripted 

 

Every Gamer found the the same people in the same places 

 

 

And again, The Order was developed by Ready at Dawn 

 

 

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TheSantader25
3 minutes ago, Mostly_Red said:

The camera thing was new and bold. 

Not even TLOU did that. 

 

The camp? The npcs? The random stuff? All scripted 

 

Every Gamer found the the same people in the same places 

 

 

And again, The Order was developed by Ready at Dawn 

 

 

Santa Monica was Associated with ready at dawn and stop derailing the main point that was the "crunch and pressure " in Santa Monica. 

 

Completely false. The game has so many of these "so called scripted encounters" that people will have different experiences. I have played the game 2 times and watched different playthroughs and people have different experiences. Also I forgot to mention the Dialogue system. A thing people have been asking in open world games for ages. The ability to talk sh*t instead of killing everyone you hate. Animal behavior is specially not scripted at all. You may even find Hawks grabbing snakes off the ground. 

 

The Camera thing adds nothing tp the experience. It's just more work for no advantage and more of "grounding" the player in a game that already changed it's identity wrongfully. The resources could have been used for "cough" "cough" Better Iconic Boss fights like Previous GOWs because this game is supposed to be "GOD OF WAR". 

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Mostly_Red
13 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

Santa Monica was Associated with ready at dawn and stop derailing the main point that was the "crunch and pressure " in Santa Monica. 

 

Completely false. The game has so many of these "so called scripted encounters" that people will have different experiences. I have played the game 2 times and watched different playthroughs and people have different experiences. Also I forgot to mention the Dialogue system. A thing people have been asking in open world games for ages. The ability to talk sh*t instead of killing everyone you hate. Animal behavior is specially not scripted at all. You may even find Hawks grabbing snakes off the ground. 

 

The Camera thing adds nothing tp the experience. It's just more work for no advantage and more of "grounding" the player in a game that already changed it's identity wrongfully. The resources could have been used for "cough" "cough" Better Iconic Boss fights like Previous GOWs because this game is supposed to be "GOD OF WAR". 

 

We're not getting anywere here

 

You'll keep telling me that RDR 2 deserved it, and i'll keep telling you why GoW deserved it 

 

 

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TheSantader25
4 minutes ago, Mostly_Red said:

 

We're not getting anywere here

 

You'll keep telling me that RDR 2 deserved it, and i'll keep telling you why GoW deserved it 

 

 

Yeah and I guess this is the fifth time we reached this conclusion. Hopefully there won't be a sixth. 

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SAS_Intruder
4 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIE_Santa_Monica_Studio

 

That's not the only reason people love GOW. why do you overreact? Are you insecure or something? That's just one of the reasons GOW had an edge over RDR2. a complete non game related and IRL reason. 

 

"No cut Camera thing" is nothing interesting. It's just a way of story telling available exclusively to GOW just for being about GODs. What's important is lowering the loading times and not having loading times which a bigger game like RDR2  and even TLOU do better. Like I said before. GOW just changed "itself" and that brings nothing for the industry. 

 

The alive camp in RDR2, Absolutely realistic Animal behavior, NPC routines, NPCs remembering your actions and almost natural open world encounters are what RDR2 did. 

To be fair, realistic animals were in video games decade ago, in different hunting simulators. NPC routines are also easy to find in other games from years ago.

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TheSantader25
5 minutes ago, SAS_Intruder said:

To be fair, realistic animals were in video games decade ago, in different hunting simulators. NPC routines are also easy to find in other games from years ago.

For years I've seen the same animal behavior in every game that includes them. Escaping or Attacking you. Rarely I've ever seen the more specific advanced behaviors exclusive to each animal displayed in a video game. Like animals hunting each other(and other NPCs)  instead of the protagonist. possums playing dead,.... The animals in RDR2 don't just get divided to Predators and Hebrivores. They all have characteristics specific to the breeds. I know we had minor touches like this before. But nowhere near RDR2. 

 

As for NPC routines I agree. But they still do remember your actions... Which is new. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Mostly_Red
3 minutes ago, SAS_Intruder said:

To be fair, realistic animals were in video games decade ago, in different hunting simulators. NPC routines are also easy to find in other games from years ago.

The Far Cry series recreates the animal behavior really well...

 

And the NPC thing already was in The Witcher 3, for example.

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SAS_Intruder
44 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

For years I've seen the same animal behavior in every game that includes them. Escaping or Attacking you. Rarely I've ever seen the more specific advanced behaviors exclusive to each animal displayed in a video game. Like animals hunting each other(and other NPCs)  instead of the protagonist. possums playing dead,.... The animals in RDR2 don't just get divided to Predators and Hebrivores. They all have characteristics specific to the breeds. I know we had minor touches like this before. But nowhere near RDR2. 

 

As for NPC routines I agree. But they still do remember your actions... Which is new. 

Animals are really amazing don't get me wrong, but there are still issues with number of species.  For instance,  wolves don't behave the way they would in nature. They are way too aggressive and they fight until they all die. That would be true only in extreme conditions where they are hungry for extended time period and desperate enough.  Few warning shots should make them go away but it doesn't.  Also, they should track player carefully for little bit and organize differently  instead of just rushing at prey that they are not familiar with. Black bears also have unusual behavior.  While they would not attack for no reason, they also would not run away like scared rabbits when cornered.  They would fight which bears in RDR2 don't do. Same for alligators,  they are not necessarily dangerous to humans but if they have size on their side and are approched agresivley they can and will attack.  In RDR I can basically sit down on alligator 3x my size without his reaction. Grizzly bears are also too aggressive on the other hand. Yes, they can be extremely dangerous but they don't necessary keep charging at anyone in their vicinity . It's still great , especially if you don't spend too much time in nature, but the more time you spend observing animals, the more it seems how certain events are scripted when it comes to interactions between animals.  Just my opinion based on my experience playing the game. 

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TheSantader25
2 minutes ago, SAS_Intruder said:

Animals are really amazing don't get me wrong, but there are still issues with number of species.  For instance,  wolves don't behave the way they would in nature. They are way too aggressive and they fight until they all die. That would be true only in extreme conditions where they are hungry for extended time period and desperate enough.  Few warning shots should make them go away but it doesn't.  Also, they should track player carefully for little bit and organize differently  instead of just rushing at prey that they are not familiar with. Black bears also have unusual behavior.  While they would not attack for no reason, they also would not run away like scared rabbits when cornered.  They would fight which bears in RDR2 don't do. Same for alligators,  they are not necessarily dangerous to humans but if they have size on their side and are approched agresivley they can and will attack.  In RDR I can basically sit down on alligator 3x my size without his reaction. Grizzly bears are also too aggressive on the other hand. Yes, they can be extremely dangerous but they don't necessary keep charging at anyone in their vicinity . It's still great , especially if you don't spend too much time in nature, but the more time you spend observing animals, the more it seems how certain events are scripted when it comes to interactions between animals.  Just my opinion based on my experience playing the game. 

Of course there would be a few nitpicks here and there but I think this is the closest a game has come to replicating their behavior. As for wolves though I remember a pack of 4 attacking me. Killed 3.the other one ran away. 

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tommyboypwns
9 hours ago, TrueGamerOpinion said:

Now i do agree the controls are clunky as sh*t thats why i do FP mode but i highly doubt they will fix it i think the mchanics are part of the engine which produced amazing graphics at least lol but i hope GTA6 is super responsive and smooth though. 

Im sorry bro GOW 1-3 were all definitive masterpieces. 

An update came out today and idk if it did anything, doubt it. However they can fix these things and actually have before with GTA V. There was an update in GTA V that added in some new controls/movement options. The engine stays the same. Doesnt matter.

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TrueGamerOpinion
3 hours ago, tommyboypwns said:

An update came out today and idk if it did anything, doubt it. However they can fix these things and actually have before with GTA V. There was an update in GTA V that added in some new controls/movement options. The engine stays the same. Doesnt matter.

Update was mostly for getting kicked out of lobbies but yeah they added new controls but i think mostly the movement was about the same in terms of turning in third person it felt clunky still.

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GTAgamerWyald
On 12/9/2018 at 4:05 PM, Mostly_Red said:

 

 

So you're saying that RDR 2 is not a masterpiece either, because it has big flaws.

 

Nioh does not have the graphics, story, music, etc, of it. GoW does all that very well and then adds a fantastic gameplay.

 

I dont think its masterpiece, but it's a great game nonetheless that did what it set out to do very well.

 

Sure God of War has the better story and better graphics though it's not like Nioh looks bad, it looks very good in fact. I can't compare the soundtracks but I remember both being good, maybe God of War is better.  But ultimately after playing so many hack and slash games what matters to me is how good the combat is, God of War just doesn't deliver that great experience that games such as Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3, Nioh or DMC 3 did.

Edited by GTAgamerWyald

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Jedster

After I commented here yesterday, I was tempted to play GoW again after a long time and man, I have to say that nostalgia had me forgot all the things I hated about it. For example: Atreus is just one big quiche character we already saw million times before, whole story is a set up for sequel/s, kratos always say to boah not to help enyone, but all you do the whole game is help some dwarfs, spirits, Valkyries etc... 

From gameplay: traveling between realms takes ages, and you have to stare at the same lame animation over and over, most puzzles are only solvable with freezing axe, second person and super strength which is super convenient and not challenging what so ever, combat is fun until you unlock all skills and there is nothing new to use or fight, than it gets repetitive very quickly.

 

End game is non existent and after completing every treasure, sidequest or clear the area the whole world is literally empty with no enemies to kill (except Niflheim, I hated that area). Epic boss fights are scripted as hell with only one specific way of defeating them, they are still epic but only for a first time around.

 

Tried new game+ yesterday (was not there since day one either) yes, they added some new abilities to enemies so it's not that easy but it's rather annoying mere than challenging, higher difficulty is just that enemies deal more dmg and have more health, which is not the best solution IMO.

 

Definitely not a bad game, quite the contrary, but all and all it suffers from same issues as most other games out there...

Just wanted to point out how nostalgia can distorts your view on certain aspects of the experience.

With RDR2 I am in the middle of second play through and still encountering new things that I've never saw before, but there are many flaws and poor design choices as well sooo... I still don't care which game should win GOTY tho.

 

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TheSantader25

I think Atreus suddenly turning into a bitch after finding out he is a GOD and also suddenly transforming back to normal again was forced and poorly handled. 

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Mostly_Red
27 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

I think Atreus suddenly turning into a bitch after finding out he is a GOD and also suddenly transforming back to normal again was forced and poorly handled. 

Spoilers 

59 minutes ago, Jedster said:

After I commented here yesterday, I was tempted to play GoW again after a long time and man, I have to say that nostalgia had me forgot all the things I hated about it. For example: Atreus is just one big quiche character we already saw million times before, whole story is a set up for sequel/s, kratos always say to boah not to help enyone, but all you do the whole game is help some dwarfs, spirits, Valkyries etc... 

From gameplay: traveling between realms takes ages, and you have to stare at the same lame animation over and over, most puzzles are only solvable with freezing axe, second person and super strength which is super convenient and not challenging what so ever, combat is fun until you unlock all skills and there is nothing new to use or fight, than it gets repetitive very quickly.

 

End game is non existent and after completing every treasure, sidequest or clear the area the whole world is literally empty with no enemies to kill (except Niflheim, I hated that area). Epic boss fights are scripted as hell with only one specific way of defeating them, they are still epic but only for a first time around.

 

Tried new game+ yesterday (was not there since day one either) yes, they added some new abilities to enemies so it's not that easy but it's rather annoying mere than challenging, higher difficulty is just that enemies deal more dmg and have more health, which is not the best solution IMO.

 

Definitely not a bad game, quite the contrary, but all and all it suffers from same issues as most other games out there...

Just wanted to point out how nostalgia can distorts your view on certain aspects of the experience.

With RDR2 I am in the middle of second play through and still encountering new things that I've never saw before, but there are many flaws and poor design choices as well sooo... I still don't care which game should win GOTY tho.

 

 I said this many times. 

 

The flaws in GoW are minor and easy to forgive. Little things that could be better 

 

RDR 2's flaws are major tho

 

The gameplay finesse is lacking, the controls are poor, the movement looks like from a game of 2004

 

These are major flaws.

 

While RDR 2 does so many things right, it does one very wrong. And happens to be the most important factor in a videogame 

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Guest Guest176525326
32 minutes ago, Mostly_Red said:

RDR 2's flaws are major tho

 

The gameplay finesse is lacking, the controls are poor, the movement looks like from a game of 2004

 

These are major flaws.

 

While RDR 2 does so many things right, it does one very wrong. And happens to be the most important factor in a videogame 

Ffs, are you retarded or something or just trolling?!

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Mostly_Red
6 minutes ago, O.Z said:

Ffs, are you retarded or something or just trolling?!

Common opinion 

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TheSantader25

It's best to just ignore him. You could write an essay about RDR2/GOW and he still would deny it with "one sentence" based on his "logic". It's obvious he is insecure about his opinion based on how much he spends time on this particular thread as well. 

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Mostly_Red

Look who's talking, lmao 

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GoodSense129
1 hour ago, O.Z said:

Ffs, are you retarded or something or just trolling?!

He Could be both , how boring his life must be to log into a Rockstar fansite just to hate on their game smfh 

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GTAgamerWyald
4 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

I think Atreus suddenly turning into a bitch after finding out he is a GOD and also suddenly transforming back to normal again was forced and poorly handled. 

Yep, I never thought much of atreus. He is simply a device that was only there give depth to Kratos, which worked well. What little arc he had basically ended in a character reset lol, one of the worst things one can do when developing characters.

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Dbzk1999
5 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

I think Atreus suddenly turning into a bitch after finding out he is a GOD and also suddenly transforming back to normal again was forced and poorly handled. 

If it means anything, they admitted that they had to condense that bit from what it was originally. From what they said, there was supposed to be another chapter/level entirely that showed more of it. But, due to time constraint, it had to be cut. I’d have to disagree with the “forced” bit though. Young Boi essentially turned into the type of person he perceives his father (a god) to be. That culminating in him screwing up and getting them trapped in helheim I feel was a natural turn of events to snapping him out of it. It’s just a shame that that one chapter had been cut.

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Jedster
5 hours ago, Mostly_Red said:

 I said this many times. 

 

The flaws in GoW are minor and easy to forgive. Little things that could be better 

 

RDR 2's flaws are major tho

 

The gameplay finesse is lacking, the controls are poor, the movement looks like from a game of 2004

 

These are major flaws.

 

While RDR 2 does so many things right, it does one very wrong. And happens to be the most important factor in a videogame 

No they are not minor and there is a lot of things that could be much better.

 

RDR2 flaws are minor and it's close to perfection.

 

The game is huge and detailed, filled with life and stuff to do - that is pure finesse, movements are best I ever saw in a videogame due to huge amount of animation.

 

See? Everyone can do this....

 

 

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Mostly_Red
11 minutes ago, Jedster said:

No they are not minor and there is a lot of things that could be much better.

 

RDR2 flaws are minor and it's close to perfection.

 

The game is huge and detailed, filled with life and stuff to do - that is pure finesse, movements are best I ever saw in a videogame due to huge amount of animation.

 

See? Everyone can do this....

 

 

 

The movement is clunky, slow and sluggish. Good lord

 

ND games have fantastic animation but they're not painful to play like RDR 2

 

Are you high? 

 

 

 

RDR 2 does everything well, except the gameplay part. This is a common thought on the internet. 

 

Even for a famous game journalist like Jason

 

 

Edited by Mostly_Red

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Paro93
20 minutes ago, Dbzk1999 said:

If it means anything, they admitted that they had to condense that bit from what it was originally. From what they said, there was supposed to be another chapter/level entirely that showed more of it. But, due to time constraint, it had to be cut. I’d have to disagree with the “forced” bit though. Young Boi essentially turned into the type of person he perceives his father (a god) to be. That culminating in him screwing up and getting them trapped in helheim I feel was a natural turn of events to snapping him out of it. It’s just a shame that that one chapter had been cut.

I remember Cory saying this in one of the interviews after they released the game.

It really felt rushed, shame they cut this segment. 

It's the only complaint i have towards the story of GOW, everything else felt perfect.

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Mostly_Red
3 minutes ago, Paro93 said:

I remember Cory saying this in one of the interviews after they released the game.

It really felt rushed, shame they cut this segment. 

It's the only complaint i have towards the story of GOW, everything else felt perfect.

GoW is the most compete game i have ever played

 

It nails the story, the graphics, the lore, the music, The gameplay is fun, responsive and sharp., The pacing is pinch perfect.  The level-design is well done as well.

 

No mtx, no dlc, no MP BS

 

And then people wonder why it won GOTY, lol 

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