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Ayesha

Mission design is a joke

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Jeemy

 

Quote

What about the scripting is "absolutely inadequate" to you?  For as long as their games are and as many different side activities as you can fill your time with, I think the writing is pretty good, and has only improved with each game they've made starting with GTA IV.  The 3D era games were nothing to write home about narratively (though they started delving into some interesting stuff with San Andreas here and there).  But with IV, V, RDR and now RDR2 they have a unifying theme and story they want to tell in each game, and while they will venture off the trail for long stretches (as you'd expect from games with 60-100 missions), they come back to it when it counts.

Well I WILL get back to you. With examples. But not till I finish the game, which will either be months if the open world keeps working the way I am hoping, or under a half-day if things go wrong.

 

I'm deliberately not going too far in R2. I've gone GTAV over and over so if you want to go chat about the TERRIBLE writing there and the AWFUL implementation of mechanics, direct me to a thread or a new thread. But I suspect they've already been discussed by stupider people than us and there is no major need.

 

I'm early enough into RDR2, I'll happily note down all the terrible wastes as they come.

 

But my problem is this: they DO build the best, open, most responsive, worlds in gaming.It just seems to take so long that the game campaigns play out as if they got their sober mate to do them the Sunday before launch, cos they'd been out for 48 hours straight.....

Edited by Jeemy
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Nutduster
On 11/12/2018 at 2:46 PM, Nutduster said:

 

Which is kind of the point of the story, right?  Just one "best laid plan" after another coming to ruin.  These guys are fooling themselves - they aren't master criminals, they're a ragtag group comprised of one quarter psychos, half idiots and 100% bad decision-makers. 

 

 

Just had to comment again on this - yesterday I did a chapter 3 horse-rustling mission where the gang is riding away after a shootout and one of them says, "Well that didn't go well," and Arthur replies, "That'll be on my tombstone."  I think that pretty much sums it up.  It's completely intentional and part of the story they are telling.

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mde2

I don't know if it was because you're not meant to do missions one after the other but by chapter 5 the mission structure started to more or less feel the same.

 

It was always either

A. Go somewhere, get in a shootout and escape, usually on horseback while being ambushed

 

or

 

B. Boring stealth that devolves into a gunfight.

 

I don't mind it but it could have been handled a lot better.

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saintsrow
On 11/12/2018 at 7:36 PM, Miamivicecity said:

I actually think it's clever and smart mission design when it makes you think that x will happen, but y happens instead. I too thought the same thing about the mission you're talking about, but it was a nice surprise that it threw me off guard.

 

I enjoy the missions for the most part and can't think of one in particular I've disliked. However the first few missions of chapter 5 felt a little unnecessary like a substitute because of there being no Mexico in the game. That is probably the only blemish I've found so far.

 

The most concise comment I have seen is from @DexMacLeod, "then things go to sh*t in a cutscene out of your control." 

 

This has been, in all the Rockstar games I have played, a frustrating element.  It's getting worse.  

 

The common theme I'm seeing and agreeing with, in threads like this, and my own RDR2 experience and expectations (still  in Chapter 3) is that the game -runs on rails- and the missions run on rails; not enough freedom.  In using the missions to advance the story arc, we have too little control. 

 

I realize that a story must go like this, so it's a hard problem for the developers, but it's not fun to suddenly (and repeatedly, predictably) have control wrested away from my eager hands, to a cutscene that cuts out my involvement and ends up on a different track.  

 

Edited by saintsrow
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Guest Guest176525326

I just finished first half of Chapter 5 and the beginning is well out of place IMO and it has been by far the weakest point of the game, to being almost unbearable I must say. Didn’t even feel like a Rockstar game tbh, anyone else feel disappointed by it?

Edited by Guest176525326

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TheSantader25
12 minutes ago, O.Z said:

I just finished first half of Chapter 5 and the beginning is well out of place IMO and it has been by far the weakest point of the game, to being almost unbearable I must say. Didn’t even feel like a Rockstar game tbh, anyone else feel disappointed by it?

I just gave it a pass because it sets the game up for a nice ride with a nice song. It makes that moment more powerful. It was pretty short. Had it been longer I would throw the controller out. I agree it's the Weakest part of the game but the game picks up again afterwards don't worry. I just hope we didn't have to kill all those soldiers. It felt a bit unrealistic to mow down that many people. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Ayesha
13 hours ago, O.Z said:

I just finished first half of Chapter 5 and the beginning is well out of place IMO and it has been by far the weakest point of the game, to being almost unbearable I must say. Didn’t even feel like a Rockstar game tbh, anyone else feel disappointed by it?

I had not expected this to happen but yeah, chapter 5 made me put my controller away. And the next day when I loaded, I didn't want to initiate a mission, went to engage in side activities and hunting as if to revive my compassion for this game.

Never thought it'd come to that considering how fun the earlier mission had been. 

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Journey_95
On 11/14/2018 at 10:09 PM, The1raven said:

Well, true.  R* games are very story driven (and they're very good storytellers I must admit). I feel like we usually have had at least one other choice.  Maybe I'm mis-remembering.

 

Maybe it's just that a I literally cannot stand Dutch, and the idea of hearing his "Silver tongue" BS again makes me want to vomit.  I was having trouble rooting for anyone who would follow that guy instead of either leaving or, better yet, shooting him in his smug face.

 

Funny, though, that you mention Ubisoft, because part of the problem I was having was that a lot of this game was reminding me of AC Origins which drove me away from the franchise.  Not even interested in the new one.  I mean how can you say they didn't feel the same and generic?  Start mission - something goes wrong - massive shootout with outrageously large numbers of enemies - make a run for it while still fighting outrageously large numbers of enemies coming from every direction lIke 90% of the time. 

 

And to top it off, when they want something to be difficult, they just go ahead and take either your skills or your weapons or both instead of thinking of a way to challenge us WITH the tools THEY put in the game.  This part I would not mind if they learned a lesson from DS.

 

Definitely it's not as bad as Origins, but they crept in that direction.

 

Never played GoW, but I hear it's really good and Genuinely difficult.  Maybe I'll get a Playstation so I can find out.  Plus I'd like to try Bloodborne.

I don't think they did..all their games since GTA 3 have very linear missions and then a huge open world where you have the freedom to do what you want. I can't remember any different approaches to missions in SA or RDR either.


Dutch isn't supposed to be likable, I thought he was an interesting character though and it made sense why people followed him to an extent. They were all outcasts of sorts.

 

I wasn't a fan of AC:O either but you could complete many missions with only stealth instead of the typical sword combat. For me while there is more variety it also means that rarely are there any memorable missions. If you are an AC fan I assume you have played AC2? Remember how linear it was and how every assassination had a clear time and place where you do it & real build up towards it? Well in Origins you can assassinate your targets at any time and there is no real setup and suspense, it doesn't feel special.


RDR2's mission style does feel similiar but I think just like with GTA IV's missions it's supposed to be the point. Not to mention massive shootouts and things going wrong was very much the case in RDR1 too..and at the end of many missions you thought the favours were over only for more errand boy type of missions to come up

56 minutes ago, O.Z said:

I just finished first half of Chapter 5 and the beginning is well out of place IMO and it has been by far the weakest point of the game, to being almost unbearable I must say. Didn’t even feel like a Rockstar game tbh, anyone else feel disappointed by it?

It's divisive for sure, I still liked it (still the weakest chapter) but it did feel random. Still keep playing Chapter 6 is amazing

Edited by Journey_95
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TheSantader25
12 hours ago, Journey_95 said:

 For me while there is more variety it also means that rarely are there any memorable missions.

This. Absolutely this. I don't know why but the more linear a mission is I always find it more memorable and unique. 

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SonOfLiberty
2 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

This. Absolutely this. I don't know why but the more linear a mission is I always find it more memorable and unique. 

I mean look at Mafia III. The only missions I remember from that game were the ones where we had to kill key characters like the capos, underbosses etc and they were usually the most scripted and linear. A lot of the other missions while they were generally more open ended were just really dull.

 

It might be a strange to say, but sometimes taking away player liberty isn't necessarily a bad thing especially when you're trying show the significance of what's unfolding. Phenm Penh 86 is one of my all time favourite missions in the GTA series, but it's only done one way. Infact I'll guarantee most peoples' memorable missions in the GTA series are the ones that are extremely limited with different options or none at all.

 

It's not to say I don't think player creativity should be gimped all together. Side missions are a great way of expressing that and in a few of the strangers missions so far I've found them to be generally more open ended. Bounties still allow a fair bit of freedom of how to approach them and wont punish you with constraints.if you think of something a bit more out of the box.

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TheSantader25
10 minutes ago, Miamivicecity said:

I mean look at Mafia III. The only missions I remember from that game were the ones where we had to kill key characters like the capos, underbosses etc and they were usually the most scripted and linear. A lot of the other missions while they were generally more open ended were just really dull.

 

It might be a strange to say, but sometimes taking away player liberty isn't necessarily a bad thing especially when you're trying show the significance of what's unfolding. Phenm Penh 86 is one of my all time favourite missions in the GTA series, but it's only done one way. Infact I'll guarantee most peoples' memorable missions in the GTA series are the ones that are extremely limited with different options or none at all.

 

It's not to say I don't think player creativity should be gimped all together. Side missions are a great way of expressing that and in a few of the strangers missions so far I've found them to be generally more open ended. Bounties still allow a fair bit of freedom of how to approach them and wont punish you with constraints.if you think of something a bit more out of the box.

I think the main reason is that when developers give the players choices they become lazy and leave the players hanging. Look at Ubisoft. They give you a bunch of tools. Throw a couple of enemies in an area and that's it. Do that for 90 times and that's pretty much the entire game. 

Edited by TheSantader25
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Mach1bud
31 minutes ago, Miamivicecity said:

I mean look at Mafia III. The only missions I remember from that game were the ones where we had to kill key characters like the capos, underbosses etc and they were usually the most scripted and linear. A lot of the other missions while they were generally more open ended were just really dull.

 

It might be a strange to say, but sometimes taking away player liberty isn't necessarily a bad thing especially when you're trying show the significance of what's unfolding. Phenm Penh 86 is one of my all time favourite missions in the GTA series, but it's only done one way. Infact I'll guarantee most peoples' memorable missions in the GTA series are the ones that are extremely limited with different options or none at all.

 

It's not to say I don't think player creativity should be gimped all together. Side missions are a great way of expressing that and in a few of the strangers missions so far I've found them to be generally more open ended. Bounties still allow a fair bit of freedom of how to approach them and wont punish you with constraints.if you think of something a bit more out of the box.

Exactly. Probably the most celebrated mission in GTA history, 3 Leaf Clover in GTA IV is on rails the whole time. 

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Guest
3 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

This. Absolutely this. I don't know why but the more linear a mission is I always find it more memorable and unique. 

 

It's the difference between a story telling game and an action/adventure game. No one reads a book in random order of the chapters either. 

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TheSantader25
5 minutes ago, McGhee said:

 

It's the difference between a story telling game and an action/adventure game. No one reads a book in random order of the chapters either. 

Even in games like GTA I find linear missions far more fun. Just Business from San Andreas is one of my favorites. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Journey_95
12 hours ago, Miamivicecity said:

I mean look at Mafia III. The only missions I remember from that game were the ones where we had to kill key characters like the capos, underbosses etc and they were usually the most scripted and linear. A lot of the other missions while they were generally more open ended were just really dull.

 

It might be a strange to say, but sometimes taking away player liberty isn't necessarily a bad thing especially when you're trying show the significance of what's unfolding. Phenm Penh 86 is one of my all time favourite missions in the GTA series, but it's only done one way. Infact I'll guarantee most peoples' memorable missions in the GTA series are the ones that are extremely limited with different options or none at all.

 

It's not to say I don't think player creativity should be gimped all together. Side missions are a great way of expressing that and in a few of the strangers missions so far I've found them to be generally more open ended. Bounties still allow a fair bit of freedom of how to approach them and wont punish you with constraints.if you think of something a bit more out of the box.

Agreed, people are way too obsessed with having pointless freedom in games these days. Mafia 3's sh*tty "open" missions were probably a consequences of lots of people whining about how linear Mafia 2 was..and then people bashed the open repetitive missions anyway. I like Rockstar's scripted but memorable missions style and hope they don't abandon it. Guarantee people will end up bitching anyway 

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DexMacLeod

I don't think Rockstar should do away with the very linear, story-driven missions altogether, I'd just like it if they mixed it up a bit every now and then. Just simple little things like, if I've got to get to a room on the second floor of a building maybe design the building so that there's more than one path to the building and multiple ways in and out of it.

 

It gives the player the ability to play the mission multiple times and have it feel at least slightly different than the last and the developers can still have me getting to the location trigger their cutscene and shift the mission into a shootout and another cutscene without disrupting the story being told.

 

I do enjoy how memorable Rockstar's missions are it's just that more often than not the memorable part of the mission is either the location, the mid-mission cutscenes, or the companion dialogue and very rarely is it something that I actually did as the player. 

 

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Nutduster
18 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

This. Absolutely this. I don't know why but the more linear a mission is I always find it more memorable and unique. 

 

Because it's simply easier to have a narrative structure in a linear mission, and narrative is what makes you remember it. You can build a terrific and lifelike open world, and have amazing game systems and physics for unpredictable mayhem at every turn - but in the end all that unpredictability will not impress itself in your mind the same way as a great line of dialogue, a big plot twist, or what have you. Those things basically require a high degree of linearity to present them properly. 

 

I don't mind when missions give you options - and this game gives you more than some previous Rockstar games; at least on a good handful of them, you get to chose the strategy from a couple of options. But overall they keep the freedom in free roam and unstructured side activities, and the missions tell a specific story. They're pretty good at it - IMO the best at it among open world game developers, and not totally embarrassed by arguably the best in the business regardless of genre (that being Naughty Dog).

Edited by Nutduster
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Guest

The only way you can tell a story and make sense is chronologically, much mistaken by linear a lot in games. Whoever doesn't get a story needs to be told that way, shouldn't even bother playing it, let alone, complain about it. 

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saintsrow
15 minutes ago, DexMacLeod said:

I don't think Rockstar should do away with the very linear, story-driven missions altogether, I'd just like it if they mixed it up a bit every now and then. Just simple little things like, if I've got to get to a room on the second floor of a building maybe design the building so that there's more than one path to the building and multiple ways in and out of it.

 

It gives the player the ability to play the mission multiple times and have it feel at least slightly different than the last and the developers can still have me getting to the location trigger their cutscene and shift the mission into a shootout and another cutscene without disrupting the story being told.

 

I do enjoy how memorable Rockstar's missions are it's just that more often than not the memorable part of the mission is either the location, the mid-mission cutscenes, or the companion dialogue and very rarely is it something that I actually did as the player. 

 

Indeed. the freedom to accomplish the mission in different ways is exactly the thing that hooked me on Rockstar games, in GTA III.  We had an early mission in GTAIII to destroy vans using grenades, just introduced for that mission, and I was failing it, trying to throw the damn grenades while driving.  Then I found I could shoot the driver, or ram the vans, or get in front of them to stop them, and then destroy them in any way I wanted, to pass the missions.  I saw the light.  

 

Sometimes a mission has a tutorial goal, or unlocking some new weapon, or an obviously intended way that we are instructed or led to go into it, but when I found out that many missions could be passed using other weapons, or coming in from the back, or just running over the bad guys or blowing them up, that was my revelation that these open world games are truly based on physics and fundamental simulation, not simple scripted sequences.  The Rockstar games didn't feel "gamelike."  

 

But as the Rockstar stories get more complicated and more cinema-like, and as the Housers imagine themselves to be machinima masters, the games are more and more running on rails, just mocapped movies with an occasional interactive gunfight or chase.  When the missions run on rails, and especially when things go to sh*t in a mid-mission cutscene, that's where they become "gamelike," and that's where I think about finally getting off the Rockstar train.  

 

Much as I hate the assholes and the glitchers in GTA Online, I like the nature of Online as a total world simulator, where players can use the physics (not the glitches) of the game to have fun.  Now that's open world freedom.  

 

 

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Mirror Park Resident

-They can't create dozens of absolutely unique missions, for obvious reasons.

-This is a prequel, so the outcome was more or less written in a rock from the get go.

-The whole theme of the saga is "being an outlaw in that era was never going to end well".

 

Ambushes, runaways and f*ck ups are a given in most missions. The classical superhero, bullet sponge protagonist makes the story last long enough. And that's it. If the story is good enough, the outcome isn't that important. Nobody bashes The Godfather because Michael Corleone didn't get a Congress seat, or a statue in Manhattan. You get the point. 

 

Anyway, I still get surprised in a good way by some missions, like 

Spoiler

that Trelawny one, about robbing a stagecoah while a fat lady sings opera. Whoever came up with that, have a weekend full of steaks and champagne in my honour😂

 

Not to mention the Valentine saloon one with my boah Lennah, off course.  

 

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TheSantader25
24 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

 

Because it's simply easier to have a narrative structure in a linear mission, and narrative is what makes you remember it. You can build a terrific and lifelike open world, and have amazing game systems and physics for unpredictable mayhem at every turn - but in the end all that unpredictability will not impress itself in your mind the same way as a great line of dialogue, a big plot twist, or what have you. Those things basically require a high degree of linearity to present them properly. 

 

I don't mind when missions give you options - and this game gives you more than some previous Rockstar games; at least on a good handful of them, you get to chose the strategy from a couple of options. But overall they keep the freedom in free roam and unstructured side activities, and the missions tell a specific story. They're pretty good at it - IMO the best at it among open world game developers, and not totally embarrassed by arguably the best in the business regardless of genre (that being Naughty Dog).

Once again I'm not talking about Story cutscenes or dialogue. I'm talking mainly about set pieces. When devs give you options they become lazy and don't design the mission in a specific way to be unique. It's just like every other mission. But R* seem to create unique gameplay set pieces with their missions(like a maniac driving a dirt bike on the top of a train) 

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saintsrow
33 minutes ago, McGhee said:

The only way you can tell a story and make sense is chronologically, much mistaken by linear a lot in games. Whoever doesn't get a story needs to be told that way, shouldn't even bother playing it, let alone, complain about it. 

Everybody in this thread automatically assumes that the single player game must be a story mode game, and therefore must be linear, like a novel or a movie.  Why not just watch a movie, then?  

 

Here's the thing:  Yes, it would be difficult and experimental and interesting to create a single player game that actually has some player free-will in it.  People making novels and movies don't have that option, but when a AAA company like Rockstar sets out to make a new media property that will sell $1B retail in the first week, it's reasonable to expect them to maybe think a little more deeply about the structure of that media experience, instead of just automatically making a 20-hour movie with a few (admittedly fun) interspersed gunfights and chases.  

 

 

 

15 hours ago, McGhee said:

 

It's the difference between a story telling game and an action/adventure game. No one reads a book in random order of the chapters either. 

I'm not totally against story mode, but actually, I like free-form adventure games as well.  Even they are eventually linear and causal, of course, because certain things have to be unlocked or found to do other things, but some are/were done pretty well.  

 

In terms of random order consumption of fiction, that's not out of the question, either.  A couple of times. I've gotten an audiobook CD at the library, rip it to MP3's and I shuffle the playback in the car, listening to the chapters in random order.  I found this out because the chapter titles on the CD are not numerical.  And, of course, movies and novels have "the good parts," which we like the most, interspersed with a lot of boring exposition, that makes the book take forever.  It's fun to just read the good parts.  Similarly, I rarely see movies in theaters any more, but I go to youtube and look up the good action / suspense scenes, and just watch them.  👍

 

Edited by saintsrow
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TheSantader25
51 minutes ago, saintsrow said:

Everybody in this thread automatically assumes that the single player game must be a story mode game, and therefore must be linear, like a novel or a movie.  Why not just watch a movie, then?  

 

Here's the thing:  Yes, it would be difficult and experimental and interesting to create a single player game that actually has some player free-will in it.  People making novels and movies don't have that option, but when a AAA company like Rockstar sets out to make a new media property that will sell $1B retail in the first week, it's reasonable to expect them to maybe think a little more deeply about the structure of that media experience, instead of just automatically making a 20-hour movie with a few (admittedly fun) interspersed gunfights and chases.  

 

 

 

I'm not totally against story mode, but actually, I like free-form adventure games as well.  Even they are eventually linear and causal, of course, because certain things have to be unlocked or found to do other things, but some are/were done pretty well.  

 

In terms of random order consumption of fiction, that's not out of the question, either.  A couple of times. I've gotten an audiobook CD at the library, rip it to MP3's and I shuffle the playback in the car, listening to the chapters in random order.  I found this out because the chapter titles on the CD are not numerical.  And, of course, movies and novels have "the good parts," which we like the most, interspersed with a lot of boring exposition, that makes the book take forever.  It's fun to just read the good parts.  Similarly, I rarely see movies in theaters any more, but I go to youtube and look up the good action / suspense scenes, and just watch them.  👍

 

I think you're overreacting. Are you seriously comparing RDR2 with books and movies? This game has 25 hours of story with it's respective action and set pieces and 75 hours full of free mode action. Detroit, Heavy Rain,... Those are the games I call movies. R* still have the high ground on realizing that they are "making a game". They have shifted towards the "narrative". But still they are higher than other companies in terms of freedom. Especially in their freemode. 

Edited by TheSantader25
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MadHammerThorsteen
On 11/12/2018 at 6:22 PM, Jeemy said:

I'm only on early chapter 3 but I've got a ton of hours in this and other R* properties. I don't think they've written anything like a good story for years. So I am sure you are right. The open-world is good, but not so good it excuses the absolutely inadequate scripting and story writing.

 

Its all very well having 700 pages, or 8 million lines of dialogue, or whatever the f*ck they have. But if you don't understand grammar and can't assemble them, what's the point?

 

Also a bit off topic but my hugest bug-bear is when they have a triggered line in a game like: "Hey, Jeemy, why don't you get on your horse?".

 

Or "Hey Jeemy are you going to buy anything".

 

But its repeated once every 10 seconds. If they set it to once every 3-4 minutes, it would be believable. Instead you are saddled (ahaha) with NPCs who just repeat lines over and over. I don't understand why no devs have ever identified this in any game, ever.

As someone who beat the game with a balance of days where all I did was complete missions, and days where all I did was side content, I can promise you that if you're spending too much time on side content on your first playthrough, you're severely watering down your experience of the story. It has a flow and a momentum and if you're spending too much picking flowers, everything's going to seem disjointed your first time through. Just play the story and go back to the side content afterward.

 

 

1 hour ago, saintsrow said:

In terms of random order consumption of fiction, that's not out of the question, either.  A couple of times. I've gotten an audiobook CD at the library, rip it to MP3's and I shuffle the playback in the car, listening to the chapters in random order.  I found this out because the chapter titles on the CD are not numerical.  And, of course, movies and novels have "the good parts," which we like the most, interspersed with a lot of boring exposition, that makes the book take forever.  It's fun to just read the good parts.  Similarly, I rarely see movies in theaters any more, but I go to youtube and look up the good action / suspense scenes, and just watch them.

 

You, friend, may have serious attention span issues. I'm not even trying to be rude. If you can't enjoy things from beginning to end any more and you're just cutting over to youtube for the "good" bits, you need to see someone because you're about to, or you have already begun, winding down a path of deep dissatisfaction with life. People normally enjoy these experiences from beginning to end, *including* the exposition.

Edited by MatthewIRL

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DexMacLeod
2 hours ago, McGhee said:

The only way you can tell a story and make sense is chronologically, much mistaken by linear a lot in games. Whoever doesn't get a story needs to be told that way, shouldn't even bother playing it, let alone, complain about it. 

I don't understand how having a little more freedom in missions would be the same as telling the story out of order. I think when people refer to linear missions they're talking physically, not story-wise. Almost any time you have to go from Point A to Point B in a mission there's a very defined path you have to take to get there. Opening it up so there's more than one specific way to get to Point B wouldn't mess up the story.

 

But for the record, chronologically is absolutely not the only way you can tell a story that makes sense. Non-linear storytelling is quite common, especially in television.

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djb204
On 11/12/2018 at 1:11 PM, Cutter De Blanc said:

Almost every mission in this game seems to be a plan that was supposed to go one way and ends up devolving into a shootout

For a gang of outlaw robbers they really suck at planning then lol. Now I understand why they are wanted everywhere they go, they can’t get away with anything lmao.

 

If I were to name Dutch’s gang it would be “The Long Shots” lol.

Edited by djb204
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Cyper

The problem is that it is very easy to forsee the end result in most missions: it will go wrong and there will be a great firefight. When that happens more or less all the time, it is not exciting anymore, since one can predict what will happen more or less all the time. It is the same time when you flee from a place: you know people will hunt you down and that they for some reason will spawn in front of you and that does not make sense either.

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Guest Guest176525326
2 hours ago, djb204 said:

For a gang of outlaw robbers they really suck at planning then lol. Now I understand why they are wanted everywhere they go, they can’t get away with anything lmao.

 

If I were to name Dutch’s gang it would be “The Long Shots” lol.

Agreed.

 

This is got to be the worst gang I have ever seen, Dutch is pretty stupid tbh, the only guys who actually think are Arthur, Hosea, Charles and John, the rest are pretty useless. 

 

Dutch and Micah should have their own gang known as wannabe robbers who get caught every time, even the Wet Bandits from Home Alone 2 had more success than these two, lol. 

 

Also Dutch’s punchlines - “we need one more score” -  “you got to trust me” etc just makes me cringe every time I hear it. What a tosser

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bish0p2004

I don't mind the main missions being so linear...I mean it would be nice to have a little bit more leeway and more of an organic feel too missions (one of the missions I hated the most was chasing the kid in St Denis...I could feel the game taking control away from me during it), but I'm generally fine with it.

 

It's the bounty missions I have an issue with.  I mean we have an epic, mostly linear main quest, we have Stranger Missions that are linear...do the bounty missions have to be linear as well now?  I've only done one so far that allowed me to bring the guy in dead or alive but all the others have been to bring them in alive.

 

Also, I am happy that the Chance Encounters are at least more open ended and continue to occur in the world unlike GTA V's "random encounters."

 

Still, by the time GTA 6 comes out, I think the game will mostly consist of a main story that is nothing but quick time events, and a huge, big world with nothing but collectibles and supernatural mysteries.  Also online.

Edited by bish0p2004
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saintsrow
On 11/13/2018 at 3:24 PM, Mach1bud said:

Honestly mission design doesn't seem any different in RDR2 as it was in any of Rockstar's other open world games. For me that's a good thing, I like the missions to tell a story, and freeroam for whatever else. Never really had much choice in the way missions go in Rockstar games, which is fine by me.

My opinion, based on the story I've played so far, is that RDR2 is the worst in interrupting the mission flow with cutscenes, seems like half the time, yanking away from us the very interactivity that distinguishes a game from a movie, just so the mission can throw some complication at us, rather than making the mission design more interesting or more challenging, within the parameters of the game.  Numerous people in this thread are saying this.  

 

This makes me realize more clearly what the problem is.  As you say, some GTA/RDR story missions were already tending toward this, and yes, there are some missions with sequential checkpoints or triggers that move it along.  But not so much cutscenes that intrude on the mission, and screw it all up.  However, in RDR2, it's almost over the top in terms of how often these mid-mission cutscenes happen, and in the severity of the complication.  It reminds me of the final John Marston mission in RDR1, and believe, me, that's not a good thing.  😠

 

Edited by saintsrow
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