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alexanderpenn21

What is wrong with people?

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Jimbatron

I'm interest to see whether RDR 2 Online has a different vibe / faster pace, more action etc.

 

When you think about it, it's a great way to solve the conundrum of trying to give both the hardcore fans and the masses what they want at once.

 

I know this is a generalisation, but suppose the long term fans of R*'s franchises want depth and detail. That was certainly visible is some of the GTA IV versus GTA V feedback. But then you have the problem that, reportedly most gamers never finish the story. If the masses want fast paced shooting action in a beautifully detailed open world (it's not true of everyone but I suspect applies to a large chunk of the gaming world) then GTA Online appeared to provide that.

 

So to try to keep both groups happy you gear the SP experience more to what the hardcore fans want, and RDR online more towards what the masses want. Strategically that's what I'd have angled for if I was running the show at R*.

 

I think it's perfectly possible for RDR Online to have all of the mechanics of SP but them to be more "ignorable". All the detailed stuff you can do in SP, whether it's challenges, crafting, side quests, supporting the camp etc are kind of optional in that I guess you could just blast through the story missions*  - but the game doesn't encourage you to play it like this. They may choose to set online up more as here's some stuff to do, or by all means just shoot each other - although if you've happened to get immersed in single player, you may know some extra tricks.

 

*I'm not, I'm about end of chapter 3 still having done about half the challenges and side quests. Still roaming the woods south of the Braithwaite Manor trying to find a damn Panther to skin for that satchel!

Edited by Jimbatron

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Gallows

Fast action is fine for the first month. After than it’s all the other things that make players come back. Depth, detail etc. There will be action, but I really like the more realistic approach to shooting, which will serve the game well in the long run, especially in first person freeaim lobbies.

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tre288
9 hours ago, anthony said:

Some people don't get that their opinion can be invalid, just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you can say whatever you want and get away with it.

 

If it's not reasonable and not supported by facts then it's invalid.

You can expect that some people will overthrow your opinion.

 

Anyways, I gotta say that some did put a smile on my face.

 

"my horse run itself intro trees and jump off cliff" 

 

"NPC's throws themselves under my horse and I get wanted"

 

or listen to this one

 

"The last game was way better because it had a stagecoach to fast travel"

 

Your horse literally steering itself into things you're actively trying to avoid is a fair complaint. Your horse throwing itself off a cliff or into things while using the cinematic camera due to bad pathing is a fair complaint.

 

Accidentally tipping and npc over and getting shot up for it is dumb. Kind of understandable in a way, but an npc tipping you over or actively agressing you or lethally harming you, and you retaliating any way other than "im sorry" and ending up punished is dumb.

 

Last game had fast travel down far better. Nothing anyone says can even dispute that. If you enjoy the massively long rides back and forth after you've already experienced the random encounters several times, hunted animals, and taken in the world... amazing for you, you keep going on your way. Atleast in the first one you wanted you could set up camp, and could fast travel to your marker from there if you just wanted to be somewhere and do something. Especially handy when people want multiple playthroughs and some might not even care about looking at the pretty trees and clouds all over again after it isn't exactly fresh.

 

There's nothing casual, or dumbed down about any of these issues.. they're just needlessly tedious.

 

Like I said, most responses to people's issues seems to be played off by the blind worship. Games great.. but come on

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Gallows
50 minutes ago, tre288 said:

 

Your horse literally steering itself into things you're actively trying to avoid is a fair complaint. Your horse throwing itself off a cliff or into things while using the cinematic camera due to bad pathing is a fair complaint.

 

Accidentally tipping and npc over and getting shot up for it is dumb. Kind of understandable in a way, but an npc tipping you over or actively agressing you or lethally harming you, and you retaliating any way other than "im sorry" and ending up punished is dumb.

 

Last game had fast travel down far better. Nothing anyone says can even dispute that. If you enjoy the massively long rides back and forth after you've already experienced the random encounters several times, hunted animals, and taken in the world... amazing for you, you keep going on your way. Atleast in the first one you wanted you could set up camp, and could fast travel to your marker from there if you just wanted to be somewhere and do something. Especially handy when people want multiple playthroughs and some might not even care about looking at the pretty trees and clouds all over again after it isn't exactly fresh.

 

There's nothing casual, or dumbed down about any of these issues.. they're just needlessly tedious.

 

Like I said, most responses to people's issues seems to be played off by the blind worship. Games great.. but come on

It’s not a fair complaint when the player is simply doing it wrong.

 

Your horse will try to navigate through a forest if you do nothing. If you try to control it, you may run into issues, because your horse wants to go one way around a tree and you try to force it the other way around. If you respect your horse is and acts like a living animal, you will learn to appreciate how you can rely on your horse. As for going over cliffs; the horse will not do that without some kind of input from you. It tries to take the safest route and if your input conflicts with what the horse sees as safe, you may experience issues. In real life if you are doing down a hill and the ground is hazardous, you will rely almost 100% on the ability of your horse to navigate safely.

 

You claim an appreciating of certain detail in this game is blind worship. Such a statement is just ignorant to be honest. I like those details and the tedium you percieve, I see as brilliant.

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Labovasha
1 hour ago, Gallows said:

It’s not a fair complaint when the player is simply doing it wrong.

 

Your horse will try to navigate through a forest if you do nothing. If you try to control it, you may run into issues, because your horse wants to go one way around a tree and you try to force it the other way around. If you respect your horse is and acts like a living animal, you will learn to appreciate how you can rely on your horse. As for going over cliffs; the horse will not do that without some kind of input from you. It tries to take the safest route and if your input conflicts with what the horse sees as safe, you may experience issues. In real life if you are doing down a hill and the ground is hazardous, you will rely almost 100% on the ability of your horse to navigate safely.

 

You claim an appreciating of certain detail in this game is blind worship. Such a statement is just ignorant to be honest. I like those details and the tedium you percieve, I see as brilliant.

That is not true. Horses do have some sort of path finding issues that cause them to steer right into trees. If you don't touch the stick they will just run head on into trees anyway because the a.i  does not judge space or time right..

 

This horse actively jerked the controls to the right which didn't make sense because that the was he most narrow path and it avoided an open path to auto strafed up the side of a cliff. 

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Jason

Sprinting in dense areas should be rule 1 of things not to do on a horse in RDR2 lol. It's true that it jerking into the tree isn't right, but holding X/A and not touching the stick will make situations like that very rare.

 

Going fast in bad situations or going mad with controller inputs is generally the cause for people having issues with the horses in RDR2 from what I've seen.

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Mach1bud
20 minutes ago, Labovasha said:

That is not true. Horses do have some sort of path finding issues that cause them to steer right into trees. If you don't touch the stick they will just run head on into trees anyway because the a.i  does not judge space or time right..

 

This horse actively jerked the controls to the right which didn't make sense because that the was he most narrow path and it avoided an open path to auto strafed up the side of a cliff. 

Yeah, because it's a horse. Like, a wild animal. It's gonna make mistakes. It's gonna do what it wants to do. 

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woggleman

Horses in the game actually feel like horses which is a good thing. The only two issues I have and they don't stop the game from being great is bathing because there is no need to have to scrub every limb. It just be one quick animation and I wished they would have just kept the weapon wheel from the first one.  

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Jason
3 minutes ago, woggleman said:

The only two issues I have and they don't stop the game from being great is bathing because there is no need to have to scrub every limb. 

You don't, just jump in and out.

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Labovasha
Just now, Mach1bud said:

Yeah, because it's a horse. Like, a wild animal. It's gonna make mistakes. It's gonna do what it wants to do. 

Was that sarcasm? You said wild animal.

 If not then maybe if the area is heavily clutter at full speed but that excuse doesn't work most of the time and especially instances where it automatically side steps up the side of a hill and crashes when there is an open path right in front of it. 

The horses clearly have path finding issues, it is irrational to deny this. I can tell because author sometimes will do odd things of foot like get stuck walking sideways until I let go of the stick or gets stuck walking in circles.

 

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woggleman
5 minutes ago, Jason said:

You don't, just jump in and out.

You can do that and still get just as clean? This is good to know though I still think this is a pointless feature. One pointless feature doesn't kill a great game though.

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Jason

Pretty sure it gives you the full clean yea, it's what I do if I'm in a rush.

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MagicNarcosis

I swear to god.....

6 hours ago, Miamivicecity said:

 

With this game I couldn't careless if they make RDO full of cowboys vs aliens sh*t or whatever since the single player is so brilliant and fulfilling.

 

I swear to a whole God if RDO does this, i want my 80 bucks back from YOU. 

Because I actually do care and i definitely don't want any of that.

Edited by MagicNarcosis

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Mach1bud
2 hours ago, Labovasha said:

Was that sarcasm? You said wild animal.

 If not then maybe if the area is heavily clutter at full speed but that excuse doesn't work most of the time and especially instances where it automatically side steps up the side of a hill and crashes when there is an open path right in front of it. 

The horses clearly have path finding issues, it is irrational to deny this. I can tell because author sometimes will do odd things of foot like get stuck walking sideways until I let go of the stick or gets stuck walking in circles.

 

It wasn't sarcasm. They are animals, designed to have a mind of their own. You can't always expect it to know what to do or which way to go to be safe.

 

Haven't had either of those issues with Arthur, so can't comment on that.

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Furi0sa

I don't have issues with my horse but I don't blindly race through forests and jump off cliffs. The nav sets a path around forsts/mountains for a reason. They're not really meant for a horse. A lot of the horse riding complaints sound like user errors. Plus when I do wipe out the sh*ts hilarious. No big deal.

Edited by scotthedge12

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Paro93

There are definetly some problems with horse navigation, specially in rough terrain. None of them game breaking, just annoying really.

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Labovasha
1 hour ago, Mach1bud said:

It wasn't sarcasm. They are animals, designed to have a mind of their own. You can't always expect it to know what to do or which way to go to be safe.

 

Haven't had either of those issues with Arthur, so can't comment on that.

If you are not being sarcastic then you either must be trolling or have some sort of learning disability. did you not see the video posted? Think about what you just said carefully. Unless you are trying to say that rockstar programmed the animals to have neurological diseases where they unable to move though open spaces without swerving  what you are saying literally does not make any sort of sense because that is the only reason any animal would cause self harm like that in those situations.Simulating horses to have their own agency does not explain the behavior of leaving an open riding path to harm itself, that is a unintended path finding issue.

 

 

 

 

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Mach1bud
15 minutes ago, Labovasha said:

If you are not being sarcastic then you either must be trolling or have some sort of learning disability. did you not see the video posted? Think about what you just said carefully. Unless you are trying to say that rockstar programmed the animals to have neurological diseases where they unable to move though open spaces without swerving  what you are saying literally does not make any sort of sense because that is the only reason any animal would cause self harm like that in those situations. Simulating horses to have their own agency does not explain the behavior of leaving an open riding path to harm itself, that is a unintended path finding issue.

I did indeed see the video you posted.  I am seeing an animal make a bad judgement call trying to navigate the forest and he hit a tree because of it. You apparently have this misconception that animals think logically as humans do, but they do not. Animals get them selves into bad situations often, ever see a deer caught in a fence? sh*t happens. They aren't human, and aren't as smart as humans. 

 

But eh, conversation is going nowhere. Just saying I believe they were obviously programmed to try and avoid obstacles and danger and sometimes that doesn't work out so well. Seems realistic to me. I like it. Feels like the animal has a mind of its own, like I don't have full control over her actions, which is a plus in my book.

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Labovasha
Just now, Mach1bud said:

I did indeed see the video you posted.  I am seeing an animal make a bad judgement call trying to navigate the forest and he hit a tree because of it. You apparently have this misconception that animals think logically as humans do, but they do not. Animals get them selves into bad situations often, ever see a deer caught in a fence? sh*t happens. They aren't human, and aren't as smart as humans. 

 

But eh, conversation is going nowhere. Just saying I believe they were obviously programmed to try and avoid obstacles and danger and sometimes that doesn't work out so well. Seems realistic to me. I like it. Feels like the animal has a mind of its own, like I don't have full control over her actions, which is a plus in my book.

 ok....

I will try to make this easier for you. For starters you need to understand that things like coordination, accuray, spacial awareness has very little to do with thinking logically. Insects have better reaction time and can choose their predicted paths better than humans. A stupid horse is still a good runner even when scared.

Secondly your dear stuck in a fence example doesn't make any sense either because they get stuck trying to squeeze into things where there is no way around. They don't avoid wide open path ways and smack head on into things at fast speed unless they physically cannot see it.

Forget about the horses colliding into things. The second fall was when the horse side stepped up a mountain, that is an obvious programming hiccup and probably has just as much to do with the physics because the legs and steering animations were going to the left side not the right side where it crashed.

I love the horses in red dead redemption 2 and riding and having hem as a companion instead of a tool my favorite part of  the game.I don't mind that they try to make their own decisions and am not bothered by the mistakes they make with freedom of choice but we are talking about actual programming issues not a horse miscalculating a jump or sliding off a cliff.

 

 

Here the horse went to the red line instead of blue. If you are still going to try and handwave it as the animal "misjudging like they do in real life" instead of the actual reason which is it's just a video game with an open world with thousands of variables and video games this complex will have bugs and errors then you are beyond helping because that is literally remedial. I really do hope you are trolling, for your sake.

dott.png

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woggleman

Bond more with your horse and it will behave much better. I am all the way bonded and I run up and down mountains with no issue. 

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saintsrow

All I know is, every time I try to turn my horse around, from the standing still position, it turns in the opposite direction I expect.  Then things go downhill from there, as I try to correct.  There should  be some kind of horse dance minigame in RDR2, like the lowrider hydraulics minigame in GTA San Andres.  Then it would make more sense.  

 

I've almost got PTSD from trying to turn around or back up my horse from a hitching post in the towns.  My fear of bumping into a pedestrian or another horse, triggering a firefight and renewed bounty, is deep, and ingrained, by now.

 

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Mach1bud
28 minutes ago, Labovasha said:

Here the horse went to the red line instead of blue. If you are still going to try and handwave it as the animal "misjudging like they do in real life" instead of the actual reason which is it's just a video game with an open world with thousands of variables and video games this complex will have bugs and errors then you are beyond helping because that is literally remedial. I really do hope you are trolling, for your sake.

I am going to handwave it.

 

1 minute ago, saintsrow said:

All I know is, every time I try to turn my horse around, from the standing still position, it turns in the opposite direction I expect.  Then things go downhill from there, as I try to correct.  There should  be some kind of horse dance minigame in RDR2, like the lowrider hydraulics minigame in GTA San Andres.  Then it would make more sense.  

 

I've almost got PTSD from trying to turn around or back up my horse from a hitching post in the towns.  My fear of bumping into a pedestrian or another horse, triggering a firefight and renewed bounty, is deep, and ingrained, by now.

 

Change your horse controls from Camera Relative to Horse Relative and it fixes all of that.

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Crokey
1 hour ago, Labovasha said:

If you are not being sarcastic then you either must be trolling or have some sort of learning disability...

We'll have less of these petty insults around here, or there will be time out on the naughty step.

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saintsrow
11 minutes ago, Mach1bud said:

Change your horse controls from Camera Relative to Horse Relative and it fixes all of that.

Thanks, I figured that is probably the fix.  I forget where it's set now, because I toggled it a couple of times, trying to get better control while riding.  

 

Edited by saintsrow

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Jason

Yea horse relative controls are a must IMO. Camera relative controls are iffy at times.

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SonOfLiberty
5 hours ago, MagicNarcosis said:

I swear to god.....

I swear to a whole God if RDO does this, i want my 80 bucks back from YOU. 

Because I actually do care and i definitely don't want any of that.

Well I would clearly would rather it be centered and grounded like Red Dead Redemption's multiplayer, but if R* do decide to go all out at one point it wouldn't bother me like GTAO

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woggleman
9 minutes ago, Miamivicecity said:

Well I would clearly would rather it be centered and grounded like Red Dead Redemption's multiplayer, but if R* do decide to go all out at one point it wouldn't bother me like GTAO

At least this time they gave us a great and full sp experience. I understand they need to keep the kiddies entertained and if this is the compromise they must make so be it.

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MagicNarcosis
24 minutes ago, Miamivicecity said:

Well I would clearly would rather it be centered and grounded like Red Dead Redemption's multiplayer, but if R* do decide to go all out at one point it wouldn't bother me like GTAO

Rob

Greet

Antagonize 

 

"Presses Triangle"

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Labovasha
36 minutes ago, Crokey said:

We'll have less of these petty insults around here, or there will be time out onn the naughty step.

 ok.....

That is not s"petty insult"and was not meant to be offensive. I honestly could not tell if this person was slow to understanding what I was trying to show because of some of the things they said and I took the extra effort to explain. If I wanted to offend I would of simply called them a moron or stupid. I saw remedial behavior and just pointed it out since it can't be age.

This is also what I meant by trolling. I notice some users like to bait people into attacking them by playing stupid on purpose or just to be an annoyance when you are trying to have serious discussion. . It is hard to tell when dealing with people on this website because it attracts those who enjoy foolishness.

50 minutes ago, Mach1bud said:

I am going to handwave it.

 

 

That is fine mach but you are denying something that is an objective fact am I'm pretty sure you know this with that type of response.

 

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Journey_95
51 minutes ago, Labovasha said:

 ok.....

That is not s"petty insult"and was not meant to be offensive. I honestly could not tell if this person was slow to understanding what I was trying to show because of some of the things they said and I took the extra effort to explain. If I wanted to offend I would of simply called them a moron or stupid. I saw remedial behavior and just pointed it out since it can't be age.

This is also what I meant by trolling. I notice some users like to bait people into attacking them by playing stupid on purpose or just to be an annoyance when you are trying to have serious discussion. . It is hard to tell when dealing with people on this website because it attracts those who enjoy foolishness.

 

That is fine mach but you are denying something that is an objective fact am I'm pretty sure you know this with that type of response.

 

Thinking your crappy opinions are facts is the real problem here. You are making a huge deal out of minor issues and want others to agree with you and when they don't you insult them and in general this forum. Cheap move.

 

Just stop playing the SP if you don't enjoy it, you already mentioned how you only bought the game for Online anyway

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