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alexanderpenn21

What is wrong with people?

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Jason

Weapon degradation is not new to video games, it is however an often criticised part of games that do have it. For me the issue with weapon degradation in RDR2 is that it's easy to forget about and you can only carry a limited amount of gun oil unless you get all the satchels so trips to the gunsmith purely to clean Arthur's guns ended up being recurring a theme in my playthrough. It wasn't helped that you couldn't see what state Arthur's guns were in at the gunsmith either.

 

The survival and realism aspects are absolutely fine, like I said above I really liked those, but there is a line for everyone between realism being and fun and it being tedious, I think weapon degradation is the only one where I felt it become tedious for me. I cared about looking after Arthur, I travelled to missions on horseback over fast travel all the time, I hunted and I cooked, I interacted with as many people possible and all that jazz but keeping an eye on the condition of my guns was something I forgot about constantly. In it's current implementation I 100% believe that you could remove it and the experience would not be harmed in any shape or form. It could've been done in a way that made you notice their condition and effectiveness better, but you're probably gonna end up doing stuff like having them jam if you go in that direction, which is something Rockstar purposefully avoided because not even the most hardcore fans of realistic games particularly enjoy jamming guns.

 

All in all it just felt like it was something they wanted but weren't willing to go all in on it in fear of it becoming tedious, so it just ends up adding nothing to the experience.

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Journey_95
2 hours ago, PapasHota said:

Its a much inferior game in gameplay and story compared to the first RDR, but it would easily be the best game of this generation if God of War wasnt released this year.

Disagree, story wise especially it's far superior to the original RDR which was already good but often dragged down by Rockstar still having that GTA style with quirky parody type of characters like Abraham Reyes, West Dickens etc. they didn't feel real like RDR2's cast does. It also had the overused formula of doing same old favours so you can get some info. I couldn't give less f*cks about the Mexico civil war arc either 

 

I only really cared about John Marston in RDR1, while in RDR2 you have Arthur but also Charles, Sadie, Hosea etc. it makes you really feel like part of the gang and develops the gang members relationships quite well. Dutch already was interesting in the original but didn't get enough screentime, in RDR2 he really shines and his fall is done well.

 

God of War is good but overrated. The story was felt incomplete and more like set up for a sequel and too often did it seem like they were basically making The Last of Us version of GoW which makes it good but not exactly original.

Edited by Journey_95

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Morgan Ranch Dressing

I agree 100% but I'll admit there are a few issues with controls.

 

One particular feature that gets annoying is when Arthur puts his rifles away on his horse and then you get off of it for a mission and no longer have your guns.

 

For a chase mission it auto equipped me with a shotgun and the rolling block rifle which were useless for that chase. I had to restart the entire mission and it spoiled some fun.

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MidworldDrifter

The main issue I have with this game is that there are a good amount of realism mechanics such as eating and sleeping, loading up one medium/large animal onto a horse, horse permanently dying etc... But then they have gameplay mechanics that disrupt the illusion of realism.

 

For example the idea of witnesses having to report a crime before the law arrives is a great idea. Even better that if you commit a crime and a witness does not see your face, it is reported as "unknown suspect". The illusion fades however when the law gets involved. If the law engages or has a visual on the player, they are immediately identified as "Arthur Morgan". This makes no sense and ruins the realistic world R* are trying to immerse the player into. I have sniped people in Valentine wearing a sack mask and an outfit I have never worn before and the moment lawmen get involved they identify me, placing a bounty on Arthur. Just as players are rewarded with stat boosts by taking their time to cook seasoned meat, players should also be rewarded with anonymity if they took the time to change outfits before performing a crime.

 

Another issue is the waves upon waves of lawmen that come after you. It's been like this for a while when it comes to wanted systems in video games, but one would have thought that R* would improve this system after all these years. Go on a rampage in Valentine and you will find that officers keep coming in groups of 5-6 one after the other. Where are these officers even coming from? Blackwater? I could believe that, but I can't believe that the law knows exactly when to send another group of lawmen. It would have been better if the last man standing in the group could run away and call for backup. If the player prevents this, then there shouldn't be another wave for a while allowing the player to escape or prepare for the next wave if they want.
 

 

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PapasHota
1 hour ago, Journey_95 said:

Disagree, story wise especially it's far superior to the original RDR which was already good but often dragged down by Rockstar still having that GTA style with quirky parody type of characters like Abraham Reyes, West Dickens etc. they didn't feel real like RDR2's cast does. It also had the overused formula of doing same old favours so you can get some info. I couldn't give less f*cks about the Mexico civil war arc either 

 

I only really cared about John Marston in RDR1, while in RDR2 you have Arthur but also Charles, Sadie, Hosea etc. it makes you really feel like part of the gang and develops the gang members relationships quite well. Dutch already was interesting in the original but didn't get enough screentime, in RDR2 he really shines and his fall is done well.

 

God of War is good but overrated. The story was felt incomplete and more like set up for a sequel and too often did it seem like they were basically making The Last of Us version of GoW which makes it good but not exactly original.

RDR2 basically the main character is a parody with his sh*tty generic south accent, Dutch really shines but none of his scenes in this really compare with his 4 brief appearences in RDR, the characters you mention are alright but Bonnie, Marshall Johson, Landon Ricketts, Seth, De Santa and most others side characters are much more interesting to me than any one in RDR2, Mexico to me was the most enjoyable part really gave me a Sergio Leone vibes and about GOW you have every right to be wrong.

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0223998743
1 hour ago, MidworldDrifter said:

The main issue I have with this game is that there are a good amount of realism mechanics such as eating and sleeping, loading up one medium/large animal onto a horse, horse permanently dying etc... But then they have gameplay mechanics that disrupt the illusion of realism.

 

For example the idea of witnesses having to report a crime before the law arrives is a great idea. Even better that if you commit a crime and a witness does not see your face, it is reported as "unknown suspect". The illusion fades however when the law gets involved. If the law engages or has a visual on the player, they are immediately identified as "Arthur Morgan". This makes no sense and ruins the realistic world R* are trying to immerse the player into. I have sniped people in Valentine wearing a sack mask and an outfit I have never worn before and the moment lawmen get involved they identify me, placing a bounty on Arthur. Just as players are rewarded with stat boosts by taking their time to cook seasoned meat, players should also be rewarded with anonymity if they took the time to change outfits before performing a crime.

 

Another issue is the waves upon waves of lawmen that come after you. It's been like this for a while when it comes to wanted systems in video games, but one would have thought that R* would improve this system after all these years. Go on a rampage in Valentine and you will find that officers keep coming in groups of 5-6 one after the other. Where are these officers even coming from? Blackwater? I could believe that, but I can't believe that the law knows exactly when to send another group of lawmen. It would have been better if the last man standing in the group could run away and call for backup. If the player prevents this, then there shouldn't be another wave for a while allowing the player to escape or prepare for the next wave if they want.
 

Totally agree, honestly I really hope they change that with a patch.

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Flannelmagic1
4 hours ago, Jason said:

It's a generation ahead of RDR1 IMO. I played a bit of that game again recently and RDR2 for me just feels way more alive. The controls and movement feel no better or worse really but the shooting feels better in RDR2 IMO, it's more tactile and impactful. Dual wielding was a huge addition too.

 

The story also impacted me in a way far beyond the way RDR1's did too and I thought Arthur was a much better developed character than John was in RDR1, though RDR2 absolutely enhances John as a character too. It's a personal preference but I also really enjoyed the ensemble feel to RDR2, to use God of War as an example seeing as it was mentioned that game had a very small and tight cast of characters which it used brilliantly but I really f*cking loved RDR2's massive cast especially because Rockstar went the extra mile and fleshed out all the relationships between them, which you can see the results of not only in missions but outside them in camp too. Just being in the world tells a great story in RDR2.

 

For me, it's the game of the gen for sure. I think I'd put God of War behind it my self, followed by games like Horizon: Zero Dawn, Witcher 3 and Divinity Original Sin 2 - only including games I sunk a good amount of time into, hence no Nintendo games.

I kinda feel the same but the opposite. Sure RDR 2 is deeper and has more mechanics in it's gameplay, but it isn't nearly as fun to me and the world feels more empty in RDR 2 tbh. Apart from the snowy areas in RDR 2 ( which are absolutely amazing btw) I also liked the atmosphere more in RDR 1, it felt more like a classic western. The writing and dialogue was much better in RDR 1 as well, and I liked and cared much more for the characters here as well even though they were over the top. It is all opinions though, but I honestly would rather go back playing RDR 1 than RDR 2 at the moment.

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SonOfLiberty
3 hours ago, Journey_95 said:

Disagree, story wise especially it's far superior to the original RDR which was already good but often dragged down by Rockstar still having that GTA style with quirky parody type of characters like Abraham Reyes, West Dickens etc. they didn't feel real like RDR2's cast does. It also had the overused formula of doing same old favours so you can get some info. I couldn't give less f*cks about the Mexico civil war arc either 

 

I only really cared about John Marston in RDR1, while in RDR2 you have Arthur but also Charles, Sadie, Hosea etc. it makes you really feel like part of the gang and develops the gang members relationships quite well. Dutch already was interesting in the original but didn't get enough screentime, in RDR2 he really shines and his fall is done well.

 

God of War is good but overrated. The story was felt incomplete and more like set up for a sequel and too often did it seem like they were basically making The Last of Us version of GoW which makes it good but not exactly original.

I agree. Looking back in hindsight Red Dead Redemption whilst having a great story in its own right had a lot of "GTAness" about it. Not a bad thing obviously, but in this game it feels like there are less stereotypes/cliches with the characters. I always thought it was kinda silly how John assembled all these people like Marshall Johnson, Seth, Irish etc to storm Fort Mercer to go after Bill. It felt like a old west Avengers tale lol.

 

I still think Red Dead Redemption's story still holds a place in my heart, but its successor has taken things to the next level. The side characters in this game are unlike anything I've experienced in years. I was absolutely shattered when

 

Hosea and Lenny died

after spending so much time with them early on.

 

The only thing that rivals that in Red Dead Redemption IMO is of course John's demise. Sadly I already know how the ending plays out in Red Dead Redemption 2 (because even when spoilers are removed us moderators can still see them).

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TheSantader25

I respect games like RDR2 far more than GOW. Both deliver great experiences but R* simply delivered the greatness in a far more larger scale which is definitely harder to do. That's why RDR2 wins it for me. This is exactly the same feeling I had about the TLOU vs GTA V rivalry for GOTY 2013 as well. However that rivalry was much closer IMO since TLOU itself was a very Unique experience both gameplay-wise and story-wise. Even it's atmosphere as well. The thing that bothered me the most about this GOW was that it simply seemed to prepare the series for more sequels which I think is a Disrespect to the buyer. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Gunboat138

The pacing is perfect.  But as people said, not everybody wants a slow burning story.  Its bound to turn people off.  However, the further back in time they go(assuming they go back in time for the next game) the more they put themselves in the golden age of the wild west times which to me would mean, less law, less sense of being on the run, more room for wildness and good times.  

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O.Z

For me RDR2 is the game of the decade and GTAV comes in at second... you see I like both styles.

 

However I get what the OP is saying, 7 ppl from my workplace who got the game on launch day(including me) only 3 really like it, the others not so much, saying it’s too slow and clunky  etc. 

 

So it’s definitely not for everyone.

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Chrismads

I dont get how it can be too slow? Is the story too long? Is it the long horse rides trough a beautiful map? (Which btw you can do in autopilot while you drink a cup of coffee)

 

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paddymcg

The pacing is spot on and the game is an absolute masterpiece but it's by no means infallible and there's plenty of things that could be done better. 

 

My main gripes are with inventory/ loadout and the law.

 

Why are the best provisions e.g. big game meat not on the item wheel? It's just annoying having to open the satchel to find it.

 

Also we need the ability to drop/store guns somewhere else and we need to pick PERMANENT weapon load outs, the gunsmith trick always reverts back eventually and we should be able to pick the load outs from the horse anyway.

 

I don't get why we can store an infinite amount of guns on the horse either. The whole point of storing guns on the horse was to make it seem more realistic than pulling a Carcano rifle out of your ass but all they've done is changed it to pulling the Carcano rifle out of your horses ass because it can store every single gun.

 

Antagonising is a useless mechanic because people run to the law when you say something mean, it's just completely unrealistic especially so for the time period.

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0223998743
6 minutes ago, paddymcg said:

Antagonising is a useless mechanic because people run to the law when you say something mean, it's just completely unrealistic especially so for the time period

This is false.

Edited by anthony

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paddymcg
2 minutes ago, anthony said:

This is false.

Care to elaborate on that?

 

I was riding through Saint Denis yesterday and antagonised someone at random, just once and he only said something along the lines "would you ever shut up?"

 

Not only did the person I antagonised run to the police but someone on the other side of the street decided they needed to sprint to the police to report this heinous crime.

 

That situation would never play out like that, not even 20 years ago would that happen, let alone 120 years ago. If you said to someone on the street they would either ignore you, back away or fight you.

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0223998743

You said it's an useless mechanic because people run to lawman, but you tried it one time, where is the logic ?

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Ingrobny
10 hours ago, Lock n' Stock said:

The only thing that I'm not a fan of is the cores system. It doesn't really seem to add much other than more tedium.

It's about realism, my Arthur is setting up his camp almost every evening, cooking food (sorry Arthur, no coffee before bedtime, you need a good night sleep 😂) and goes to sleep and wake up in the morning next day, in the morning he is cooking more food and brewing some coffee (for me this is the best way to keep Arthur at average weigth), before he rides away, he brushes his horse and feeding his horse, so it's like real life I guess, we have to eat, sleep etc everyday, it's a tedium in the real life as well 😃. This is now a routine for me, so I don't think about it that much.

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paddymcg
4 minutes ago, anthony said:

You said it's an useless mechanic because people run to lawman, but you tried it one time, where is the logic ?

I didn't say I only tried it once. I've used it countless times and the majority of the time it results in the same thing, the person runs to the nearest sheriff.

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Jabalous

On cleaning weapons. I think it adds a layer of feeling a connection to your weapons. They feel more real this way. However, I've not tested the difference between the weapon being extremely degraded to being normally clean. How does it affect gunplay? I've only noticed that when the weapon is not clean, other stats like damage, reload and velocity are reduced. I think that's about it, but it also means that it could hinder your dominance over a shootout. The effect could become more pronounced in Online when facing against other challenging players, which will force you to attend to your weapons frequently if you want to survive against others and not to have the lower hand in shootouts. 

Edited by Jabalous

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OfficialTwiggz
36 minutes ago, paddymcg said:

Care to elaborate on that?

 

I was riding through Saint Denis yesterday and antagonised someone at random, just once and he only said something along the lines "would you ever shut up?"

 

Well that’s your problem. You were riding in Saint Denis. Those people aren’t looking for a problem to be had. Most of them are do-gooders that don’t want any trouble, and will report anything suspicious they see. 

 

Most of my antagonizing is done on the road, or if someone says something sass like to me first. Normally in Valentine, is a good spot for neutral responses. You get some people that wanna be left alone, and will ignore your threats, or you get some that are wanting to use that trigger finger. 

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oCrapaCreeper
10 hours ago, MidworldDrifter said:

The illusion fades however when the law gets involved. If the law engages or has a visual on the player, they are immediately identified as "Arthur Morgan".

This can be avoided though if you trigger the "interrogating"  phase by changing clothes before they find you and defusing.

 

Edited by oCrapaCreeper

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paddymcg
14 minutes ago, OfficialTwiggz said:

 

Well that’s your problem. You were riding in Saint Denis. Those people aren’t looking for a problem to be had. Most of them are do-gooders that don’t want any trouble, and will report anything suspicious they see. 

 

Most of my antagonizing is done on the road, or if someone says something sass like to me first. Normally in Valentine, is a good spot for neutral responses. You get some people that wanna be left alone, and will ignore your threats, or you get some that are wanting to use that trigger finger. 

People don't run to the police because you tell them to shut up, even if they did it would not result in every police officer in the city searching for you. It's just not a realistic game mechanic.

 

It could be remedied with an extra interaction button to distinguish a threat from a rude comment. Or another option would be to make a breach of the peace not an automatic wanted scenario but a situation where you can stay and escalate it with the cop or  simply leave the area to defuse the situation without the police actively searching for you.

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Ingrobny
18 minutes ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

This can be avoided though if you trigger the "interrogating"  phase by changing clothes before they find you and defusing.

I didn't know you could do this and get away with it, so thanks for posting this 👍, it's a pretty cool way to avoid trouble with the law 😃.

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0223998743
1 hour ago, paddymcg said:

I didn't say I only tried it once. I've used it countless times and the majority of the time it results in the same thing, the person runs to the nearest sheriff.

Not in my experience.

In any case, don't make it sound like the whole mechanic is useless because people run to lawman every time; that was your initial claim.

 

Now, yes it CAN happen.

As for being unrealistic and also because of the time period; why would you think that?

 

28 minutes ago, paddymcg said:

but a situation where you can stay and escalate it with the cop or  simply leave the area to defuse the situation without the police actively searching for you.

 

This is basically already implemented in the game.

Edited by anthony

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Chrismads

You dont even need to change clothes. You can just defuse the lawman and he'll tell you that he hear someone call for you far far away (gtfo). I think it seems realistic that you're hostile towards someone, and they tell on you. Its also realistic that you won't get arrested for such a minor offense if you say you're sorry.

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GN 92
49 minutes ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

This can be avoided though if you trigger the "interrogating"  phase by changing clothes before they find you and defusing.

 

That was interesting. Will try this soon. 

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Lock n' Stock

The comment section of this video is particulary toxic. I mean, I enjoy Jim Sterling's commentary and find *some* of his criticisms here fair (despite otherwise heavily praising the game), but I didn't get why so many have to mindlessly agree with everything he said while being so dismissive of what the game has to offer.

 

 

Edited by Lock n' Stock

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Smokewood
4 hours ago, Chrismads said:

I dont get how it can be too slow? Is the story too long? Is it the long horse rides trough a beautiful map? (Which btw you can do in autopilot while you drink a cup of coffee)

 

By too slow they mean, there isn't something happening every 5 f*cking seconds.

They want - kill, kill, kill, loot and nothing else because they have been condition to like it through years of grinding mmorpg like games.

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paddymcg
1 hour ago, anthony said:

Not in my experience.

In any case, don't make it sound like the whole mechanic is useless because people run to lawman every time; that was your initial claim.

 

Now, yes it CAN happen.

As for being unrealistic and also because of the time period; why would you think that?

 

 

This is basically already implemented in the game.

It's happened to me the majority of times I've used it, I'm speaking from my experience, it's become a useless mechanic in my experience, I'm not speaking on behalf of every player, it's okay to have criticisms of the game.

 

I've explained already why I think it's unrealistic. People don't go to the cops because they got shouted at and police are far more likely to dismiss such reports or in rare circumstances will simply have a chat to defuse the situation. A police chase would never ensue from such a meaningless crime and the perpetrator would never be put on a wanted list for it.

 

That even applies to today where things are more civilised. 120 years ago things were much more lawless and PC culture enforcement wasn't so high on the list of objectives for police. An officer would likely laugh in your face if you wanted someone arrested for shouting at you, especially so for people with very little influence or power like common city folk.

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MidworldDrifter
1 hour ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

This can be avoided though if you trigger the "interrogating"  phase by changing clothes before they find you and defusing.

 

This is pretty cool and I didn't even know you could do that. My problem though was that the law sees through the mask and instantly identifies Arthur once they engage him in combat, rendering face coverings useless.

 

41 minutes ago, Lock n' Stock said:

The comment section of this video is particulary toxic. I mean, I enjoy Jim Sterling's commentary and find *some* of his criticisms here fair (despite otherwise heavily praising the game), but I didn't get why so many have to mindlessly agree with everything he said while being so dismissive of what the game has to offer.

 

 

Youtube comment sections are toxic in general. Most of the time people on there can't accept that a videogame can have good and bad qualities. In their view a videogame is either good or bad and nothing in between. A good example is Battlefield V where all people focused on is the ability to play as a female/minority, ignoring the improvements they made to the combat and gameplay in general. After the open beta I've seen people complain that it was too much like COD despite the game having low ammo, no health regen and classes that each had a different role to fill. Anyway I didn't mean to go off topic there but I find it is better to avoid youtube comments and see how the game plays yourself. 

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