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mehoe123

Arthur Morgan dumbest R* protagonist?

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Lonely-Martin
4 minutes ago, Miamivicecity said:

See my edit.ūüĎć

 

My natural instinct is¬†to interpret descending order from best to worst (or in this case smartest to dumbest), but I just need to learn how to read,ūüėõ

I too had to re-read, lol.

 

Maybe we'll both feature there soon, lol.

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Guest

To be frank, I don't get why protagonists should be compared with those from other games, especially those with very contrasting environments/eras. 

 

Here 's a guy, back in 1899, have lived most of his life on the run as an outlaw, getting compared with dudes living in the modern world with digital stuff, telecommunication, schools, internet, high tech armory and what not. 

 

The old apples and pears story. These "he's not as smart as (insert modern world protagonist's name here), so he's dumb" arguments are so pointless.

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GroveStGTAV

I think michael de santa is most stupid one.

his wife cheating on him

his daughter is bitch

 

entire gta v story started because of michaels stupidness

 

Destroying super lux house because he thinks owner is just the tennis coach lol. And he robbed bank and said his old quote from movie. Then his old friend the guy supposed to be die in north yankton but he survived. Found him in the los santos because of that quote. lay down in your sons car wait till it going to reposession.

 

 

I can say a lot of thinks about him. I think thats enough

Edited by GroveStGTAV
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eastriver

Dumb? Arthur is far from dumb.

 

As a lot of people pointed out, he's not an intellectual, most people in those days didn't receive proper education. But you can tell Arthur has a lot of common sense and wisdom. Arthur says very clever things in his dialogues with other characters.
I think a lot of Rockstar protagonists have this trait, they're not intellectuals or anything but there's definitely some wisdom to them. This includes John Marston, Niko Bellic, CJ, and Franklin. Michael from GTA V is more formally educated but I saw less wisdom in him. Trevor is just insane lol and you can't really write an insane character to possess wisdom.

 

I think Arthur is very comparable to John Marston. Even though he was far from formally educated, he said a lot of clever things in his dialogues, you could tell he had some wisdom and common sense.

Edited by IG_
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Dangerous and sad
6 hours ago, Blasterman4EVER said:

I understood that reference.

If anyone didn't understand it just GTFO of this whole forum lol

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tonko

Ynnel?

 

2utnigi.jpg

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L1337

He really isn’t dumb at all, he is also one of the few characters in R* games that doesnt crave for revenge against literally everyone

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TheSantader25

He is far more intelligent than many R* protagonists. The only smarter protagonists are Trevor, Michael, Tommy, Claude IMO. 

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ravynwolvf

"And be a simple kind of man."
 

That's Arthur.

And I have to agree with many of the posters; I never tie in intelligence with education. I've met a lot of incredibly stupid college grads, as well as smart people who didn't have much education. Arthur is just an extreme case of the latter.

Edited by ravynwolvf
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Revrico

At least Arthur knows how to swim

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Gallows

There are different levels of intellect, and I think Arthur is perfect. He has a lot of common sense, which is a phenomenon, that is sadly not so common in the modern world. But very valuable.

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Lance_Vance89

I don't agree that he's stupid. Even though he himself may say that. If you talk to Hosea in camp he says that Arthur should drop the ''dumb gunslinger'' act, or something like that.

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Jerking For Soup

I'd say Johnny Klebitz is the least intelligent. He literally went through the GTA IV story trying to convince Ashley to quit drugs, has to get involved with the Russian mob to pay off her debt, sees the destruction of a person through drugs, but then does it himself by the events of V and becomes a scrawny little bitch who gets squashed like a bug.

 

Literally bitches to a madman about f*cking his girl and gets killed. What do you f*cking expect? haha

Edited by Jerking For Soup
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The Algerian

Did you play RDR1? You met john marston at all, or?

John marston's far stupider than Arthur.

 

Did you forget how he gets gunned down like a damn idiot the minute he arrives in New Austin?
Or how he falls for an insanely obvious trap from Captain De Santa In Mexico?

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SAS_Intruder

Yeah I would agree with Marston being less intelligent.  At least I think so since RDR1 was long time ago. But as for Arthur, he is not dumb.  He is just a simple man that was living outlaw life for few decades.  If he was dumb,  he wouldn't have lasted for one week. 

 

But in academic sense is is lacking of course. 

 

However I have a feeling if Arthur was more ready to stand up to Dutch, gang would have been better off with his simple approach. 

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Blasterman4EVER
5 hours ago, Revrico said:

At least Arthur knows how to swim

Classic.

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The N. Bellic Man
9 hours ago, ravynwolvf said:

I never tie in intelligence with education. I've met a lot of incredibly stupid college grads, as well as smart people who didn't have much education. Arthur is just an extreme case of the latter.

True that. I have debated with university grads or would-be uni grads that are in many ways dumber and more na√Įve than Arthur.

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Jerking For Soup

In my mind, intelligence is the ability to utilise logic, rationality and reason. This is what distinguishes humans and animals.

 

For some people with lower levels of education they can utilise that limited education very well in addition to logic and rationality, and thus are "intelligent" off their own merits. 

 

Some people who have higher levels of education can be "dumb" in the sense they can't use logic to help themselves at all. They are educated, but far from intelligent due to their incapability to rationally make decisions.

 

It's all about utilisation of ratio and logic. This is why education is often misconstrued as intelligence. Education teaches of various logic patterns and mental processes, but in many ways does not teach you how to use it.

 

This is why Michael and Klebitz are in many ways stupider than Arthur or John could ever be. I like Klebitz and Michael as characters, but boy are they irrational.

 

Bitching to a madman about f*cking your girl numerous times? What did Klebitz expect? A heartfelt apology from a f*cking drug lord?

 

Pulling down a huge house in Rockford Hills because he thought it belonged to a Tennis Coach? A tennis coach?

 

Although I do think Michael and Klebitz are not not unintelligent by nature, but just very angry people with a lot of issues that cloud their judgement like Amanda, drugs, Ashley, etc.

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Big Molio

I don’t know about dumb, but he speaks as if he has had a stroke or an attack of Bell’s Pallsy half the time.

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Journey_95

He is a realistic protagonist, not over the top smart but not dumb either. Trevor is a bad example since the writing for him was forced, his character while entertaining isn't very believable (how "smart" he can be counts to that)

On 11/9/2018 at 6:31 PM, Jerking For Soup said:

I'd say Johnny Klebitz is the least intelligent. He literally went through the GTA IV story trying to convince Ashley to quit drugs, has to get involved with the Russian mob to pay off her debt, sees the destruction of a person through drugs, but then does it himself by the events of V and becomes a scrawny little bitch who gets squashed like a bug.

 

Literally bitches to a madman about f*cking his girl and gets killed. What do you f*cking expect? haha

Johnny was the victim of sh*t writing. 

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Cutter De Blanc

He's smart enough to know when to let people think he's dumb

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neo92boi
On 11/9/2018 at 12:32 AM, Miamivicecity said:

See my edit.ūüĎć

 

My natural instinct is¬†to interpret descending order from best to worst (or in this case smartest to dumbest), but I just need to learn how to read,ūüėõ

Forgot to add Michael to the list needless to say he’s in the top 5. 

 

I honestly feel my list is quite accurate.  Some are arguable. 

 

But I honestly I feel Carl (CJ) is the most successful and hardened protagonist with Jack Marston as a close second.  Carl literally had to come back to a home he ran away from only to find out his mother was murdered, saw all of his friends betray him, his family disown him and become blackmailed by a corrupt Officer. Then traverse an entire state consisting of 3 massive cities all to free his brother from jail, and clear his name. 

 

In the interim if the player 100% the game, Carl becomes a professional racer, a ace pilot, owns a record label with a mansion, a diamond quarry, a car dealership and two chop shop, two casino’s, an air strip, becomes indoctrinated into the Mexican Mafia, becomes the leader of possibly the largest (And if all territories are taken) the only and most powerful street gang in Los Santos, a skilled fighter in Taikwondo, Boxing, and Karate, a relestate tycoon, close connections with the Yakuza and Leone Crime Family (Itlian Mafia), and bringer of Justice ultimately ending the crack era in Los Santos. 

 

Honestly as  far as success goes no one will ever top CJ 

1 hour ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

He's smart enough to know when to let people think he's dumb

Excellent. 

Edited by neo92boi
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rebeldevil

Arthur isn't a particularly well-spoken person, but he doesn't strike me as stupid. I've read his journal entries and he and Mary-Beth have spoken at length about how much they both enjoy writing. Writing is generally not a pursuit enjoyed by stupid people. Arthur may not have much of a formal education, but he's far from stupid.

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vnus_dmlo

until we get the pc version and can check the intelligence stat in the game files its pointless speculating on where he stacks up against past protagonists 

 

on another note my intuition is that he is infact the ugliest protagonist but im open to debate since rockstar are a little too talented at crafting ugly characters lol

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Jerking For Soup
4 hours ago, neo92boi said:

I honestly feel my list is quite accurate.  Some are arguable. 

 

But I honestly I feel Carl (CJ) is the most successful and hardened protagonist with Jack Marston as a close second. 

How is Jack successful or hardened?

 

First off, he's hardly done anything comparable to any other protagonist. The only big plotline event he initiated was killing Ross. We're talking protags who have gotten away with huge heists, ran gangs, ended Mafias, jumped onto a jet, killed all the guys on there and parachuted off unscathed. Are we really comparing killing an old retired cop to anything anyone else has done?

 

Not to mention that by killing Ross, he himself is falling victim to a cycle of revenge, something John or Arthur doesn't want him to pursue.

 

Jack isn't even all that hardened. Yeah he had his Dad killed and his mother passed away, but let's be honest, he hasn't ever been left for dead like John has, he hasn't had years of experience in the game like Michael has and he hasn't got the keen wit Franklin has, he isn't even as hardboiled as LAPD Detectives. 

 

We know close to nothing about Jack's future either. We don't know if he goes on to invent hot dog jesus dildo cushions ffs. All we know is that he kills Ross.

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vnus_dmlo
14 minutes ago, Jerking For Soup said:

How is Jack successful or hardened?

 

First off, he's hardly done anything comparable to any other protagonist. The only big plotline event he initiated was killing Ross. We're talking protags who have gotten away with huge heists, ran gangs, ended Mafias, jumped onto a jet, killed all the guys on there and parachuted off unscathed. Are we really comparing killing an old retired cop to anything anyone else has done?

 

Not to mention that by killing Ross, he himself is falling victim to a cycle of revenge, something John or Arthur doesn't want him to pursue.

 

Jack isn't even all that hardened. Yeah he had his Dad killed and his mother passed away, but let's be honest, he hasn't ever been left for dead like John has, he hasn't had years of experience in the game like Michael has and he hasn't got the keen wit Franklin has, he isn't even as hardboiled as LAPD Detectives. 

 

We know close to nothing about Jack's future either. We don't know if he goes on to invent hot dog jesus dildo cushions ffs. All we know is that he kills Ross.

lol jack is easily the most hardened and one of the smartest

 

first scene of adult jack he is burying his mother, does he cry? no, does he whine? no he goes out and does what he needs to

 

secondly he reads books and actually wants to be a writer unlike the murderers that he is stuck with but he still kills everyone he has to because he is the most hardened protagonist

 

third he is most handsome and has the coolest style etc

 

and he is also stronger than john for obvious reasons, doesnt smoke, doesnt do drugs

 

hopefully red dead 3 you play as jack 

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Mirror Park Resident
45 minutes ago, vnus_dmlo said:

first scene of adult jack he is burying his mother, does he cry? no, does he whine? no he goes out and does what he needs to

 

secondly he reads books and actually wants to be a writer unlike the murderers that he is stuck with but he still kills everyone he has to because he is the most hardened protagonist

 

third he is most handsome and has the coolest style etc

 

and he is also stronger than john for obvious reasons, doesnt smoke, doesnt do drugs

 

hopefully red dead 3 you play as jack 

 

1-That means nothing. He could have cried a Mississippi river before that moment. Like if it were a bad thing. How's that an important thing at all?

 

2-That doesn't turn him into a good achiever, or a good protagonist.

 

3-Just an opinion.

 

4-No correlation. Also you can make Jack drink a lot in saloons if you want. 

 

5-Old West culture is long dead by the time Jack is an adult. It would be a LA Noire type game, not a RDR game. 

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vnus_dmlo
4 minutes ago, Fluffy Sock said:

 

1-That means nothing. He could have cried a Mississippi river before that moment. Like if it were a bad thing. How's that an important thing at all?

 

2-That doesn't turn him into a good achiever, or a good protagonist.

 

3-Just an opinion.

 

4-No correlation. Also you can make Jack drink a lot in saloons if you want. 

 

5-Old West culture is long dead by the time Jack is an adult. It would be a LA Noire type game, not a RDR game. 

youre right 

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Jerking For Soup

NO. Niko is ACTUALLY the best and most intelligent protagonist.

 

Does he CRY after Roman's death?? How about Kate's death??

 

Secondly he is rich. MONEY equals SUCCESS. Plus he watches TV unlike the killers he is stuck with. You think Johnny watches TV?? Nuh-uh!

 

Third he is the most handsome and has the coolest style lol.

 

And he is stronger than all other protags because he was in the Red Army ofc. Doesn't do drugs, etc.

 

You see what I mean? Everything you literally just said can be attributed to every other protagonist. It doesn't make Jack special because he indulges in a little Kama Sutra every now and again.

 

This also relates back to my point of education doesn't equal intelligence. Jack reads books, but that doesn't instantly make him more experienced as it would an Elder Scrolls protagonist. John and Arthur are much more experienced, and thus are much wiser. 

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Blackous666

he is not stupid... he is just normal.. like every real person.. not every person has the whole universe intelligence... he is a simple human being just like me or you

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