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Jeemy

The Great Train Robber

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anthony

Jumped on a train in New Austin which is lawless, near the guard I got a 'crime reported' instantly, killed him and the other guard then lawman arrived from nowhere, I killed them and a second wave came a few minutes after, I shot them and when I killed the last one, my wanted disappeared but I still had the bounty.

 

They really need to work on that, like ASAP.

Edited by anthony

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Gallows
4 hours ago, anthony said:

Jumped on a train in New Austin which is lawless, near the guard I got a 'crime reported' instantly, killed him and the other guard then lawman arrived from nowhere, I killed them and a second wave came a few minutes after, I shot them and when I killed the last one, my wanted disappeared but I still had the bounty.

 

They really need to work on that, like ASAP.

Yep, I think we have tested the hell out of train robbing and it’s clearly messed up. All the other parts og the wanted sytem works just fine. Sure you can get the odd weird situation where you get a small bounty for something, but generally it will be due to your own actions.

 

Trains however - not working.

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Jeemy

Small update; happened over another random event train robbery.

 

This time I killed all the passengers (8 or so) and raiders (6 or so).

 

Train was not empty, it contained a lock box which was empty (I wonder if these are random contents or what) plus the usual snake oil, health cure, pack of cigs, bullets and cans of food.


Net haul was very small, about $15, also got: Fine Brandy; 3 Silver Pocket Watches, Gold Pocket Watch, Silver Emblem Ring and a few potions/tobaccos off the passengers & the saddlebags. I'd guess about $50 total haul. No bounty.

Edited by Jeemy

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Gallows
1 hour ago, Jeemy said:

Small update; happened over another random event train robbery.

 

This time I killed all the passengers (8 or so) and raiders (6 or so).

 

Train was not empty, it contained a lock box which was empty (I wonder if these are random contents or what) plus the usual snake oil, health cure, pack of cigs, bullets and cans of food.


Net haul was very small, about $15, also got: Fine Brandy; 3 Silver Pocket Watches, Gold Pocket Watch, Silver Emblem Ring and a few potions/tobaccos off the passengers & the saddlebags. I'd guess about $50 total haul. No bounty.

I robbed three rick people in blackwater (simutaneously by robbing all three at the same time). I got about $7 in money, but some valuables as well. $27 total I believe. It took about a minute, no problems and no Bounty. Had to ride out of town, because I did it by the water with many witnesses. But a couple of minutes later, I found the next group of rich people.

 

Robbing all three at the same time does two things.

1. More money

2. People getting robbed will not become witnesses.

 

Edited by Gallows

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josephene123

It's pretty odd. 

 

Based on the mechanics that exist for witnesses etc, the automatic wanted system for robbing trains is something that literally would have required them to purposefully add code to enable. 

 

Why would they do that? Unfortunately, I think it's not a 'bug' in Rockstar's mind, it's a feature. The only way otherwise that I can think of, is that the code from one of the train robbery missions was generalized onto all instances of trains in the game. To me that seems a pretty improbable feat of bad code design.

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Gallows
49 minutes ago, josephene123 said:

It's pretty odd. 

 

Based on the mechanics that exist for witnesses etc, the automatic wanted system for robbing trains is something that literally would have required them to purposefully add code to enable. 

 

Why would they do that? Unfortunately, I think it's not a 'bug' in Rockstar's mind, it's a feature. The only way otherwise that I can think of, is that the code from one of the train robbery missions was generalized onto all instances of trains in the game. To me that seems a pretty improbable feat of bad code design.

I think they did it because witnesses actually getting to a lawman in time for it to be any threath to you would be very rare. They made the system work like this instead and I think the balance is off. What they should have done is to make one or two of the guards ride away on a horse and if they get a certain distance from the train, the law will spawn at that distance and ride in. The system used for the rest of the game would make train robberies way too easy, but the current system is just not balanced. Perhaps they could give the lawmen spawned at train robberies a better tracking range as a balance to giving you more time to rob the train. Currently as soon as you blow the box, the law spawned, so you are spottet within seconds. Or they could make the people spawning, not lawmen but more guards, so you have a fight on your hand but are not recognized. The law will then arrive in a second wave.

 

I don’t know precisely how it should work, because I do not want it to be too easy. I like how I can avoid bounties everywhere else with some planning, but I can’t do it consistently without a plan.

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josephene123
3 minutes ago, Gallows said:

I think they did it because witnesses actually getting to a lawman in time for it to be any threath to you would be very rare. They made the system work like this instead and I think the balance is off. What they should have done is to make one or two of the guards ride away on a horse and if they get a certain distance from the train, the law will spawn at that distance and ride in. The system used for the rest of the game would make train robberies way too easy, but the current system is just not balanced. Perhaps they could give the lawmen spawned at train robberies a better tracking range as a balance to giving you more time to rob the train. Currently as soon as you blow the box, the law spawned, so you are spottet within seconds. Or they could make the people spawning, not lawmen but more guards, so you have a fight on your hand but are not recognized. The law will then arrive in a second wave.

 

I don’t know precisely how it should work, because I do not want it to be too easy. I like how I can avoid bounties everywhere else with some planning, but I can’t do it consistently without a plan.

Yeah you're right, without a system I could definitely see it being exploited especially in the northern reaches of the map, where there are basically no roads for witnesses to possibly come across the scene. Maybe a couple of the guards on board should have the behaviour to run off and report to law enforcement - but idk, with the combat system being as easy as it is, I'm not sure how they could make it so the player wouldn't easily intervene before anything came of it. 

 

It's a difficult one to answer. 

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Gallows
8 minutes ago, josephene123 said:

Yeah you're right, without a system I could definitely see it being exploited especially in the northern reaches of the map, where there are basically no roads for witnesses to possibly come across the scene. Maybe a couple of the guards on board should have the behaviour to run off and report to law enforcement - but idk, with the combat system being as easy as it is, I'm not sure how they could make it so the player wouldn't easily intervene before anything came of it. 

 

It's a difficult one to answer. 

Yes it is and I am sure R* wrestled with this issue for a long time. I think they just need to balance it better. Make the first wave guards and not lawmen, so you do not get instantly recognized. Then make a second wave spawn a short time after the first. That way you can get away. But to balance this out the search radius of the guards and lawmen should be much greater, so you would have to ride further to escape, but you would still be able to escape without getting recognized. Perhaps killing everyone in the first wave would force the lawmen to first investigate at the train before going after you, as opposed to just spawn with the guards.

Edited by Gallows

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Jeemy

Also of note: I received a message when standing on a train the other day telling me that "forcing the train to stop away from towns will reduce the chance of the law catching up with you - if you do not allow a witness to escape" - something of that nature.

 

So it implies they do intend there to be a physical witness reporting the crime. I am yet to get set up to test stopping a train by other means so I can watch it and see if anybody does escape.

 

I do think Josephine is correct; the standard "mission goes wrong" protocol that the gang always encounter is programmed into all train robberies instead of just a mission one.

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Gallows
15 minutes ago, Jeemy said:

Also of note: I received a message when standing on a train the other day telling me that "forcing the train to stop away from towns will reduce the chance of the law catching up with you - if you do not allow a witness to escape" - something of that nature.

 

So it implies they do intend there to be a physical witness reporting the crime. I am yet to get set up to test stopping a train by other means so I can watch it and see if anybody does escape.

 

I do think Josephine is correct; the standard "mission goes wrong" protocol that the gang always encounter is programmed into all train robberies instead of just a mission one.

That’s interresting. Then it may be unintentional. Either the witness do not show up on the mini map or the system is bugged.

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Jeemy

Ok,

 

So I finally got a chance to do some testing with a stopped train.

 

As an aside I ended up in a hilarious bloodbath; having robbed a stagecoach, I was witnessed and chased the witness up the road where I was spotted murdering him by two more witnesses, who I then chased to a nearby farm, who all witnessed me and had to be slaughtered, as did the passersby who witness Death at the Farm.

 

No bandana, no witness, no bounty. So at least it proved that the system works absolutely fine off-train. 

 

I parked up down the line and 2 witnesses investigated the crime but as I was not there, they remained white and I remained in the clear.

 

I left my purloined stagecoach (a tiny goods wagon in fact) in the middle of a straight set of track, well out of town and with a mountain to gaze loftily from.

 

Then I waited forever.

 

Finally the train arrived, sadly a goods train.

 

I slowly road down the side of it as the driver yelled at me and it pulled to a halt.

 

By the time I reached the rear, the rear guard was a red dot. I shot him and went back up the train, shooting a guard approx the 1/3 and 2/3 along the length. 3 in total.

 

Couldn't see any red dots close to the front, and I turned, circled the train another full revolution, and boarded on the other side at the engine compartment to see if the driver was still there and he was not.

 

I had time to run virtually the length of the train, without picking anything up this time, before the crime was reported. Pretty swiftly after that 3 lawmen and a $50 bounty came in.

 

From memory the train had 2-3 cans of food, 1 snake oil, a herbivore bait and I didn't get think to check the wardrobe at the rear car.

 

Reloaded and of course my wagon was gone so I just robbed it normally for the above, bounty-free. Hogtied the middle guard, emptied 2 carriages and buggered off.

 

Compare this to fencing a stagecoach with the passengers' pocket contents on top and its pointless in terms of making money.

 

Next time, I'll try to check more carefully for the driver. Try to verify if its 3 guards on a freight train or 3 + driver. Hopefully then I can get onwards to passenger trains on which I am having a great but incomplete haul.

 

Incidentally I've not seen a safe on a train in weeks.

 

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Gallows
1 hour ago, Jeemy said:

Ok,

 

So I finally got a chance to do some testing with a stopped train.

 

As an aside I ended up in a hilarious bloodbath; having robbed a stagecoach, I was witnessed and chased the witness up the road where I was spotted murdering him by two more witnesses, who I then chased to a nearby farm, who all witnessed me and had to be slaughtered, as did the passersby who witness Death at the Farm.

 

No bandana, no witness, no bounty. So at least it proved that the system works absolutely fine off-train. 

 

I parked up down the line and 2 witnesses investigated the crime but as I was not there, they remained white and I remained in the clear.

 

I left my purloined stagecoach (a tiny goods wagon in fact) in the middle of a straight set of track, well out of town and with a mountain to gaze loftily from.

 

Then I waited forever.

 

Finally the train arrived, sadly a goods train.

 

I slowly road down the side of it as the driver yelled at me and it pulled to a halt.

 

By the time I reached the rear, the rear guard was a red dot. I shot him and went back up the train, shooting a guard approx the 1/3 and 2/3 along the length. 3 in total.

 

Couldn't see any red dots close to the front, and I turned, circled the train another full revolution, and boarded on the other side at the engine compartment to see if the driver was still there and he was not.

 

I had time to run virtually the length of the train, without picking anything up this time, before the crime was reported. Pretty swiftly after that 3 lawmen and a $50 bounty came in.

 

From memory the train had 2-3 cans of food, 1 snake oil, a herbivore bait and I didn't get think to check the wardrobe at the rear car.

 

Reloaded and of course my wagon was gone so I just robbed it normally for the above, bounty-free. Hogtied the middle guard, emptied 2 carriages and buggered off.

 

Compare this to fencing a stagecoach with the passengers' pocket contents on top and its pointless in terms of making money.

 

Next time, I'll try to check more carefully for the driver. Try to verify if its 3 guards on a freight train or 3 + driver. Hopefully then I can get onwards to passenger trains on which I am having a great but incomplete haul.

 

Incidentally I've not seen a safe on a train in weeks.

 

So you stop the train, shoot the guards, save the game and then reload?

 

I hope they make train robberies viable somehow, because it’s such an iconic outlaw activity.

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Jeemy
20 minutes ago, Gallows said:

So you stop the train, shoot the guards, save the game and then reload?

 

I hope they make train robberies viable somehow, because it’s such an iconic outlaw activity.

Just for testing purposes.

 

What I eventually be able to do is stop a passenger train and have enough time to rob both items and passengers; at present I can do one or other 90% of the time.

 

But this now means having a coach with me, and it being a passenger train; when that happens, I save the game and have a go.

 

This is what I've been doing up til now, checking various mechanics and methods. But now of course you lose your coach so I can only try it once before going back to the tested method.

 

I do note that you can steal the stagecoach out of a town without any penalty; perhaps Rhodes, not 100%. So if I can get a save game when the train is just pulling in, and I am beside the coach, I can maybe generate more instances. I'll keep you posted.

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TheSantader25

I love the game but there are certain clear things that I need to mention here. 

 

-After observing the whole game in general it's clear that R* don't want you to make that much money by freeroam activities. It's clear why. f*cking multiplayer. It's understandable. But they could at least use these anti free roam law systems just in multiplayer and not ruin the SP experience. Many things are clearly intentional here. Don't wait for a patch. 

 

-First of all you are guaranteed a 50$ bounty on train robberies.You either shouldn't give a sh*t about bounties which basically ruins fast travel so you basically should give a sh*t OR only Rob the trains in ONE REGION so you have access to fast travel in other locations.The only way to make good profit from Train Robberies:Equip a fast horse and have a good amount of  space in your satchel for different tonics,cigars,... . Kill the rear guard, jump on, kill the remaining guards(the train should be automatically stopping by now.)Rob as many passengers as you can. Be advised that the train that passes Saint Denis has the most Passengers BUT be advised and be patient. Time your "Jumping on Train"  Moment exactly when the train is crossing a Long Heightened bridge where lawmen have a difficult time getting to you.(The simplest route though would be to place a stagecoach in front of the train on the bridge) Once you think you're in danger, Escape the train and lose the lawman but don't kill any of them cause it is not profitable. Once you lose them go back to the empty train and this time Rob any Locker, Cabinet,.... You're now done. Driving the train past any station will cause a bounty. 

 

Here are more signs of R* not wanting you to make money. 

 

-Pardon Letters(from RDR1) or any creative new ideas to get rid of bounty other than paying are non existent. You would think R* that have fleshed out this game to the core would have such a feature but it's intentionally not there. It's VERY obvious that it's intentional. 

 

-Remember the trolley station in Saint Denis? It's a pretty crowded place. Could be perfect to rob some people. Guess what? You can't use R2 to take your weapon out there. You can rob the first guy you see by threatening them but it will result in a fist fight with others which doesn't let you rob them anymore. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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anthony
7 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

-After observing the whole game in general it's clear that R* don't want you to make that much money by freeroam activities. It's clear why. f*cking multiplayer.

I can't see how multiplayer is relevant.

 

7 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

First of all you are guaranteed a 50$ bounty on train robberies.You either shouldn't give a sh*t about bounties which basically ruins fast travel so you basically should give a sh*t OR only Rob the trains in ONE REGION so you have access to fast travel in other locations.The only way to make good profit from Train Robberies:Equip a fast horse and have a good amount of  space in your satchel for different tonics,cigars,... . Kill the rear guard, jump on, kill the remaining guards(the train should be automatically stopping by now.)Rob as many passengers as you can. Be advised that the train that passes Saint Denis has the most Passengers BUT be advised and be patient. Time your "Jumping on Train"  Moment exactly when the train is crossing a Long Heightened bridge where lawmen have a difficult time getting to you.(The simplest route though would be to place a stagecoach in front of the train on the bridge) Once you think you're in danger, Escape the train and lose the lawman but don't kill any of them cause it is not profitable. Once you lose them go back to the empty train and this time Rob any Locker, Cabinet,.... You're now done. Driving the train past any station will cause a bounty. 

Train robberies are basically broken.

 

You can rob people, shops, steal and sell horses and stagecoaches, ask tips to train station clerk for stagecoach transporting valuables. If you know what you are doing, you will get away without being wanted.

Edited by anthony

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TheSantader25

This is the maximum profit I've gotten so far. 

Purchased train tickets to Riggs station. When I arrived there I stood in the passenger cabin which is the closest to the first cargo cabin in the front. The train started moving again. Killed the 4 guards in the front. Threw the driver out and stopped the train right in the middle of the very long bridge. Lawmen can't get to you from here. They just roam at the lower level. Killed the last guard(rear gaurd). Robbed the 12 passengers(110$+125$ worth of jewelry) blew up the safes(76$+24$ from platinum watches) and also got 50$ worth of food and tonics. I started running on foot on the bridge towards New Hannover and lost them with a 90$ bounty. That's a 300$ profit. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Gallows
4 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

This is the maximum profit I've gotten so far. 

Purchased train tickets to Riggs station. When I arrived there I stood in the passenger cabin which is the closest to the first cargo cabin in the front. The train started moving again. Killed the 4 guards in the front. Threw the driver out and stopped the train right in the middle of the very long bridge. Lawmen can't get to you from here. They just roam at the lower level. Killed the last guard(rear gaurd). Robbed the 12 passengers(110$+125$ worth of jewelry) blew up the safes(76$+24$ from platinum watches) and also got 50$ worth of food and tonics. I started running on foot on the bridge towards New Hannover and lost them with a 90$ bounty. That's a 300$ profit. 

That’s actually not too bad. Perhaps the inconsistency of the valuables on the train is the main issue, because perhaps it is intentional that you become wanted when doing train robberies. That would be perfectly fine as a different kind of gameplay from the more incognito crimes elsewhere, if only you could consistently get a decent profit, unless you mess up. Will have to dive into this perspective a bit more, and not worry about the wanted issue, if that is in fact working as intended.

 

A $300 profit from one train robbery is very nice.

Edited by Gallows

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concolt

Take a train to Annesburg, stay on train, make sure you have your horse follow you, once in a tunnel take over the train and stop it, kill al guards, rob passengers, kill passengers and loot bodies, rob safes.  You will get wanted but lawmen can’t reach you and you should get a clean get away.

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Cutter De Blanc
On 11/16/2018 at 7:56 AM, josephene123 said:

It's pretty odd. 

 

Based on the mechanics that exist for witnesses etc, the automatic wanted system for robbing trains is something that literally would have required them to purposefully add code to enable. 

 

Why would they do that? Unfortunately, I think it's not a 'bug' in Rockstar's mind, it's a feature. The only way otherwise that I can think of, is that the code from one of the train robbery missions was generalized onto all instances of trains in the game. To me that seems a pretty improbable feat of bad code design.

I feel like its to keep people from driving the train all over the map online. If you and few of your crew take over a train you'd be practically unstoppable without an aggressive law response 

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Gallows
54 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

I feel like its to keep people from driving the train all over the map online. If you and few of your crew take over a train you'd be practically unstoppable without an aggressive law response 

I don’t think that’s the reasoning for single player. I think the reason is that, it would be too easy if ot worked like the rest of the game.

 

Someone posted he had a $300 profit after paying the $90 Bounty. If you can earn that consistently if you get everything the current system is fine. That just means train robberies are a different challenge, from the more incognito criminal work.

 

The thing we need to test is how much you get on average from trains. The freight trains are most likely bad, but perhaps it’s also a good idea to check the passengers before you rob it, to see if they look rich and if the train is full.

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anthony
6 hours ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

I feel like its to keep people from driving the train all over the map online. If you and few of your crew take over a train you'd be practically unstoppable without an aggressive law response 

Does not make any sense, the devs can easily change what they want for the online.

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TheSantader25
7 hours ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

I feel like its to keep people from driving the train all over the map online. If you and few of your crew take over a train you'd be practically unstoppable without an aggressive law response 

The Train sucks for traveling IMO because good horses can easily overtake it. So I don't think people would get unstoppable online. Not to mention that a Dynamite actually destroys the engine as well. 

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Cutter De Blanc
16 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

The Train sucks for traveling IMO because good horses can easily overtake it. So I don't think people would get unstoppable online. Not to mention that a Dynamite actually destroys the engine as well. 

tough to overtake when you got five or ten  real people who know to shoot your horse shooting at you from the train

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TheSantader25
3 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

tough to overtake when you got five or ten  real people who know to shoot your horse shooting at you from the train

You can easily jump on though. Or just place a Dynamite in the middle of the Tracks and shoot it when engine arrives. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Jeemy

Well. Just before the patch, I stopped a passenger train just outside Flatneck Station.

 

Killed the driver first and approx 4-5 guards. Then had time to check the whole train, which was mysteriously empty of passengers, it was late at night but I saw none leave. Train had a safe so I blew that for $60 and a pocket watch that I couldn't pick up.

 

Crime was reported shortly after, law came and searched but I was out of range by then.

 

Still not worth it, I have a save but will lose my coach, so I'll still try to see if the patch changes anything.

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GN 92

Any changes after the patch? I won’t be able to play until Friday I guess 

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Jeemy

Updated with patch, then reloaded my save game. Interestingly, my bounty from the autosave was gone.

 

I had assumed my train would reappear as they run to timed schedules afaik, but it did not. So I went to get another coach and am waiting.

 

"I waited 28 hours in the blistering cold, and train still said no."

 

Once I moved and did some stuff, usual coach mayhem; witness, kill, witness, kill, 84 scared horses later I put a coach on the tracks and a train appeared.

 

Driving away from where I'd just been. Must have needed to load some map assets.

 

Chased it to town, having kindly cut free all my frightened horses already. Through Rhodes and onto Saint Denis. Currently heading past there to catch up, due to general fog not sure what type of train it its, but I will try to find a coach and stop it.

 

Oh and PS I am sure everybody knows this but you go faster chasing trains if you stay on soft ground. Once up to full speed, with timed presses of X/why you can go back on the tracks and keep the speed.

Edited by Jeemy
Already-known horse speed rubbish

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KidAntrim

Head to Ambarino where you killed that legendary bear with Josea, head up the hill behind where you killed the bear and there will be train tracks heading down a long dark tunnel. When a passenger train comes by hop on the front end gta style by running up to the platform then throw the conductor off and stop the train in tunnel when the passenger cars are on inside the tunnel. Kill all of the guards that run towards the front. Then blowup every safe and rob everyone on the train.

You should get no bounty if you get away from the area and avoid main roads. If there does happen to be a witness somehow just kill them. For example the train conductor survived and ran towards where i killed the bear, i killed him and there was no wanted, no bounty, no law showing up.

Edited by KidAntrim
added more

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Cutter De Blanc

It almost seems as though the train itself is being treated as a lawman.  I just had a train go by while evading the law, and as soon as it saw me I was identified as Arthur Morgan and the wanted circle recentered on me

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TheSantader25
On 12/30/2018 at 12:11 AM, Cutter De Blanc said:

It almost seems as though the train itself is being treated as a lawman.  I just had a train go by while evading the law, and as soon as it saw me I was identified as Arthur Morgan and the wanted circle recentered on me

R* pushing videogame boundaries to the limit again. 

 

GTA V:Birds call the cops

RDR2:Trains are lawmen

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