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Jeemy

The Great Train Robber

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Jeemy

Hi,

 

I'd like to keep this topic really tight. Lets not have any bitching, going off-topic.

 

What I want to do is try to get to the bottom of train robbery mechanics.

 

I have a save game just outside Saint Denis; train leaving to head North to Annesburg.

 

I've tried 20 times to make a clean robbery.

 

Here's what I've done so far:

 

Before putting Arthur on train

 

  • Leap on at coal carriage or driver's van; immediate aggro from guards.
  • Leap on at passenger cars; slight surprise, can then sit down and wait.
  • Leap on at back mail cars (seems this train has no safes), aggro from rear guard.
  • Ride behind, guards will all come to the back allowing you to pick them off. No law aggro. As long as you can pick them all off before Annesburg, you can enter train. I.e. Kills when on horseback don't seem to aggro law.
  • Change clothes to never-used outfit; first kill when standing on train will show "Unknown Suspect". As train slows (not stops) changes to Arthur Morgan
  • Put on bandana with used/known outfit; first kill standing on train will Arthur Morgan straightaway.
  • Wear a mask/hood, only when train slows (not stops), will a crime be posted. First kill on train, its Arthur Morgan.

 

Once On Train

 

  • It seems that once you set foot on the train, any actions will auto-relay to local law. This may be related to this particular train, i don't know. I've tried to make it stop on a bridge crossing water and succeeded, still law starts coming in from all sides once I have my feet on the train.
  • I can rob passengers and will start to accrue bounty, every time, no matter what I do.
  • Seems slightly slower with a mask or hood than bandana. To be honest bandana seems to immediately identify me as Morgan.

 

Other Notes So Far

 

  • There do not seem to be any benefits to stopping the train. Law comes anyway. If you drive it away, the centre of the red evasion circle is always fixed to the train.
  • If you try to drive out of trouble, the circle follows you.

 

I do not see any way in this instance to mount, kill all followers/guards, remain incognito, rob all passengers and empty the items, and leave again.

 

Thoughts?

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GN 92

They gotta fix the train robbery system.

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Jeemy

Well that's not helpful. Have you tested anything?

 

My main things to take away so far: 

 

- if you kill guards from horseback, it does not raise lawmen aggro level

- I don't f*cking understand what wearing a bandana/mask/hood does - it seems to flip randomly from Unknown Assailant (or whatever the term they use is) to Arthur Morgan - I've read a lot of guys saying they have a "crime outfit" but I've flipped clothes a bundle and seen no difference.

 

I'm just holding here until there are more comments, I want to get this mechanic down pat before I go further with the game. Hence post title.

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0223998743

When you are in range from the law enforcement they will recognize Arthur no matter what, bandana on, masks on whatever. Well, in this case there is no need to be in range lol.

 

I've tried a few times to rob trains, in the end, "crime" was always magically reported without witnesses; rather point less to plan carefully a train robbery..

 

Edited by anthony

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AdmiralJT

I'm pretty sure it was never intended for us to be able to rob a train.

 

I've done a stealth kill on the gaurd in the caboose when the nearest passenger is two cars away. As soon as I kill that gaurd I'm wanted. How can you be wanted when no one saw you commit the crime.

 

I'm guessing there is something preset that as soon as you do harm to any authority figure, a deputy, a gaurd, or a police man it automatically triggers a wanted status, because I've tried to stealth kill police officers and have never been successful.

 

As far as the law getting alerted by the robbery, yeah that's pretty borked too. The alert wouldn't be as much of a problem if you could take out lawmen and gaurds silently. The problem is you get wanted on the back of the train and someone on the front of it runs off and calls the law. 

Edited by AdmiralJT

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NoEasyDay

Dont you know by now? You cant do anything illegal in this game without getting a bounty. Nothing.

 

If you're looking to break the law, rob people and such, and live like an outlaw...well, maybe this game isnt for you. 

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¡MAYDAY!
19 minutes ago, NoEasyDay said:

Dont you know by now? You cant do anything illegal in this game without getting a bounty. Nothing.

 

If you're looking to break the law, rob people and such, and live like an outlaw...well, maybe this game isnt for you. 

You're wrong. I haven't had a bounty in a week because I know how to properly commit crimes anonymously. Ive  even shot the bartender in the smaller saloon in Valentine with no bandana on and left without getting a bounty. 

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0223998743
7 minutes ago, ¡MAYDAY! said:

You're wrong. I haven't had a bounty in a week because I know how to properly commit crimes anonymously. Ive  even shot the bartender in the smaller saloon in Valentine with no bandana on and left without getting a bounty. 

Yeah...

There is some things that in my opinion need to be changed but the system as a whole is working correctly, saying you can't be an outlaw without getting a bounty is just blatantly wrong.

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NoEasyDay
38 minutes ago, ¡MAYDAY! said:

You're wrong. I haven't had a bounty in a week because I know how to properly commit crimes anonymously. Ive  even shot the bartender in the smaller saloon in Valentine with no bandana on and left without getting a bounty. 

 

27 minutes ago, anthony said:

Yeah...

There is some things that in my opinion need to be changed but the system as a whole is working correctly, saying you can't be an outlaw without getting a bounty is just blatantly wrong.

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

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Jeemy

I ended up giving up on that train after a few more attempts last night.

 

Picked up the same train this morning while out hunting; it just happened past. Ran for it and hopped on between the second and the second-to-last carriage. Put on bandana but was in my usual clothes.

 

Dynamited the safe and got $100 plus a platinum watch. Guard from the rear of the train aggroed, as soon as I shot him, wanted as Arthur Morgan $50.

 

So I think the best plan is to approach on horseback and kill that guard without getting a bounty, then hop on, do the safe, and hop back off Again. I did save so I will test that this evening. This way would be $100+ profit.

 

You can also rob 2-3 passengers and hop off without a bounty but I haven't tested that much yet. One time I got a rare part for an armadillo or alligator tooth charm, something like that, robbing an old lady. I reloaded so I can't be sure what it was. But that would be worth a small bounty.

8 hours ago, AdmiralJT said:

The problem is you get wanted on the back of the train and someone on the front of it runs off and calls the law. 

Except if its still moving, that couldn't realistically be the case.

 

I've gotten off on horseback and circled the train after killing 2-3 guards, as the train was slowing to a halt, and before getting the crime reported. Did not see anybody running or red dot on map. Crime popped when train stopped. Did that twice.

 

Its certainly as far as I see it now impossible to clear a full train, rob every passenger and the safe without so much law aggro that the bounty would be huge. I haven't checked whether if you did this and then committed sideywise you would retain the funds, I doubt it.

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Jedster

I've tried to rob a train a few times now and I can't see the point of doing so... I've jumped on last wagon and silently killed the guard on the rear and dropped him of the train, still no wanted so I began to loot everything. I've done this multiple times but once I start looting second-to-last wagon, suddenly someone spot me and I get wanted, there are no guards or no passengers near me, I've checked.

Train stops and law show up. This really need some tweaking, right now it's literally pointless...

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Gallows
7 hours ago, ¡MAYDAY! said:

You're wrong. I haven't had a bounty in a week because I know how to properly commit crimes anonymously. Ive  even shot the bartender in the smaller saloon in Valentine with no bandana on and left without getting a bounty. 

I’ve done this a few times (well, not killed the bartender in Valentine, but commited crimes without bandana and getting away with it).

 

Would you mind writing how it went down? I find the wanting system brilliant, leading to some great dynamic gameplay.

 

I had an incident where I robbed a general store. He pulled a gun and I shot him. This general store has a hallway behind the counter. I could not get out of the store, so hid in that hallway. The sherifs entered and began investigating. It was quite cool. I overheard them commenting on the crime, that there was a body, that the shop was empty and that they would look for me. They left the store and went around the back. When they did I exited the store, got on my horse and was off. No bounty. The only thing you need to do really is not get seen by the police and if you cannot control witnesses seeing you, make sure they cannot recognize you (fresh clothes, mask and horse).

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Jeemy

******

 

SUCCESS!

 

Jumped the train 2 cars from the end. Bandana on. Snuck up behind rear guard and hogtied.

 

Dynamited safe, emptied and train was pulling into town. By the time I hopped off and a witness reported the crime, I was close to the edge of the red circle anyway.

 

Next stage was investigating by which time I was well clear with a $80 haul.

 

So it appears/may be true that if the train is out of town, the crime gets reported by a mysterious flying witness. But in town it follows the standard procedure.

 

No bounty, no recognition.

 

Apparently you can also open safes with the lock breaker by pressing square, or throw a knife at the hinges.

 

Will try next time.

 

******

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Gallows
34 minutes ago, Jeemy said:

******

 

SUCCESS!

 

Jumped the train 2 cars from the end. Bandana on. Snuck up behind rear guard and hogtied.

 

Dynamited safe, emptied and train was pulling into town. By the time I hopped off and a witness reported the crime, I was close to the edge of the red circle anyway.

 

Next stage was investigating by which time I was well clear with a $80 haul.

 

So it appears/may be true that if the train is out of town, the crime gets reported by a mysterious flying witness. But in town it follows the standard procedure.

 

No bounty, no recognition.

 

Apparently you can also open safes with the lock breaker by pressing square, or throw a knife at the hinges.

 

Will try next time.

 

******

That’s cool, although also a bit strange. Will test out the plan that defies common sense - robbing trains in towns :)

 

But I still wonder if train guards are law enforcement and they are the ones identifying you, or it’s simply the magic mobile phone calling in the law. Either way, I think trains should be changed, so when your crime is spottet on the train one or more of the guards will spawn a horse and ride to get the law. If you do not manage to kill them before they are a certain distance away, they will alert the law and you will have a set amount of time to get away before the law arrives.

Edited by Gallows

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Jeemy

I am pretty sure the in-game help references stopping trains out of town to either reduce or eradicate the influx of der law. I can't remember which, but I am pretty sure there is an ex-mission note about it; the first time I went up to a train it gave me a little tutorial on how to rob it.

 

So I would surmise that yes, the train guards are law enforcement hence you become wanted, and no, the magic mobile phone behaviour is not intentional.

 

I really hope it gets patched to act as you say, so you can realistically stop a train out of town, kill all the guards, prevent a witness report and clear it out.

 

I read a review of RDR2 where the reviewer said he drove a train all the way around the map; to have done this he'd have had to have all the guards gone, and no bounty. Review code could have been different but I doubt it.

 

As I think was mentioned above an appropriate delay for either: the train not arriving at the next stop and a single person being sent to investigate; or an escaped train guard reaching local law enforcement, reporting the crime and them riding out to you, would also be better behaviour.

 

I'll keep at it the next time a train passes and post back up with any further results.

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Gallows

Brilliant. Look forward to your report. I really love experimenting with ways of getting away with crime, because except train robberies, your options actually make sense :)

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0223998743

Hold on, there is actually safe in trains?

 

In any case, crime being reported seem to be random, last time I stopped a private train (no passengers) in the middle of nowhere, killed the guards and I really took my time, while I was looting the bodies, the crime was magically reported.

 

Second time I stopped a public train (still in the middle of nowhere) with people on board, kill the guards and the crime was reported.

 

It seem that sometimes you do have a few minutes before the crime is reported.

 

In any case, there was no witnesses in both situation.

Edited by anthony

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bish0p2004

I've posted this before but I sent in a bug report to Rockstar.  You guys should do the same.

12 hours ago, AdmiralJT said:

I'm pretty sure it was never intended for us to be able to rob a train.

 

I've done a stealth kill on the gaurd in the caboose when the nearest passenger is two cars away. As soon as I kill that gaurd I'm wanted. How can you be wanted when no one saw you commit the crime.

 

I'm guessing there is something preset that as soon as you do harm to any authority figure, a deputy, a gaurd, or a police man it automatically triggers a wanted status, because I've tried to stealth kill police officers and have never been successful.

 

As far as the law getting alerted by the robbery, yeah that's pretty borked too. The alert wouldn't be as much of a problem if you could take out lawmen and gaurds silently. The problem is you get wanted on the back of the train and someone on the front of it runs off and calls the law. 

I don't think the guards are considered authority figures because I can kill quite a few of them on the train before becoming wanted.  I'm not talking silent kills either.  I've killed all of them before and as soon as i start robbing the train, I become wanted.  No Witness investigating or anything...just straight up Wanted.  If you kill any other authority figure loudly and another one sees you, you become Wanted.

 

I think you're right though in that I don't think we are supposed to rob trains.  However, if you have in-game hints on, whenever a train passes, you get a notification saying thst they are great sources of income.  

Edited by bish0p2004

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0223998743
20 minutes ago, bish0p2004 said:

I've posted this before but I sent in a bug report to Rockstar.  You guys should do the same.

Did that already, I would say there is chances we are going to get a "We do not have any information to provide on this topic" answer lol.

But hey at least we are 'letting' them know about that.

Edited by anthony

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bish0p2004
29 minutes ago, anthony said:

Did that already, I would say there is chances we are going to get a "We do not have any information to provide on this topic" answer lol.

But hey at least we are 'letting' them know about that.

Pretty much.  I did get them to ask for a video of me robbing the train so that was something.  Unfortunately, their last response to me was basicalky a generic "the bandana does not conceal your identity in all situations."  

 

I told them I know this, but that wasn't what the original report was about.  It was about becoming automatically wanted despite their being no witnesses, along with being identified even though there is no law enforcement on the map which is not supposed to be the case according to the official guide as well as the guide in the game.

 

I know they won't fix it, but I'm going to drag it out just for my curiosity to see if I can get the reasoning as to why it was designed this way.

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Jeemy
1 hour ago, anthony said:

Hold on, there is actually safe in trains?

 

In any case, crime being reported seem to be random, last time I stopped a private train (no passengers) in the middle of nowhere, killed the guards and I really took my time, while I was looting the bodies, the crime was magically reported.

 

Second time I stopped a public train (still in the middle of nowhere) with people on board, kill the guards and the crime was reported.

 

It seem that sometimes you do have a few minutes before the crime is reported.

 

In any case, there was no witnesses in both situation.

There is a safe On passenger trains. It’s as far as I can see I was in the black car in the wardrobes. There seems to be no safe on freight trains and really, nothing worth having.

 

If you are lucky enough to find a random horse revivor it’s worth jumping onto a freight train for two minutes but otherwise the passenger trains seem to be where it sat in terms of income.

 

I do read that later in the game you have more money than you know what to do with, but I am taking it slow and exploring the mechanics.On passenger trains. It’s as far as I can see I was in the black car in the wardrobes. There seems to be no safe on freight trains and really, nothing worth having.

 

If you are lucky enough to find a random horse revivor it’s worth jumping onto a freight train for two minutes but otherwise the passenger trains seem to be where it sat in terms of income.

 

I do read that later in the game you have more money than you know what to do with, but I am taking it slow and exploring the mechanics.

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Fonesy

Does anyone know how to get the train to leave the station? Sometimes it does but more often than not the train it sits there. Is there a fix for this ? 

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bish0p2004
5 minutes ago, Fonesy said:

Does anyone know how to get the train to leave the station? Sometimes it does but more often than not the train it sits there. Is there a fix for this ? 

It stays there for quite a bit before it moves again.  Haven't time it but I've waited on it quite a few times during my experiments to rob it it.

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Fonesy

What is the longest you have waited? Sometimes it seems to leave straight away. 

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GN 92

I really hope they fix this. If anyone receives an aswer from R* please post here.

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Lance_Vance89

I haven't tried it yet myself, but if you stop the train on a bridge over water, the law can't get to you and you can take all the time in the world to rob the train. No idea about bounty or being recognized though.

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bish0p2004
1 hour ago, Fonesy said:

What is the longest you have waited? Sometimes it seems to leave straight away. 

Seems to take 2-3 minutes.  Could be a little longer though because I would browse the internet on my phone while waiting.

Edited by bish0p2004

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0223998743
2 hours ago, bish0p2004 said:

Unfortunately, their last response to me was basicalky a generic "the bandana does not conceal your identity in all situations."  

 

I told them I know this, but that wasn't what the original report was about.  It was about becoming automatically wanted despite their being no witnesses, along with being identified even though there is no law enforcement on the map which is not supposed to be the case according to the official guide as well as the guide in the game.

 

I know they won't fix it, but I'm going to drag it out just for my curiosity to see if I can get the reasoning as to why it was designed this way.

Yea'...I saw a similar answer on reddit, like "the bandana does not hide Arthur identity" even tho it is absolutely false.

That was some weird answer I gotta say..

Edited by anthony

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Gallows

What kind of trains are you people robbing? Is it trains spawned because of ticket purchase or the real train driving around? That may influence the result and could be a way to stop people from exploiting the ticket purchase to rob trains. I’ll try robbing a random train and see what happens.

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Cutter De Blanc

I found a train being robbed during a random event that I was able to drive around the map with no incident.

 

I wonder what happens if you rob the train as it passes Van Horn, where there's no law

Edited by Cutter De Blanc

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