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FlexiveFowl

Ryder ignored after betrayal

Recommended Posts

lil weasel

We know it is Only A Game, just rebutting some of the "Too Real" thinking.

See my other posts.

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wfank

Ryder had the potential to be either one of the loyalest member (while Smoke wont fight Ballas, Ryder would, also before the events he attacked his teacher just for wearing Ballas color lol !) as well as one of the greatest sell out foe (he persistently belittled CJ and given his prior loyalty his betrayal could have been just as big as a shock as Smoke's if utilized). Sadly he barely has any dialogues after House Party and has only two appearances after the betrayal in Photo Opportunity  and Pier 69  (many say his voice character left, I dont know much behind the scene stuffs. TBH Ryder had the potential to be one of the most prominent character in the series (both as a GSF for life hero and a sell out villain) but ended up being one of the most underutilized and wasted character in the whole series.

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Official General
2 hours ago, wfank said:

Ryder had the potential to be either one of the loyalest member (while Smoke wont fight Ballas, Ryder would, also before the events he attacked his teacher just for wearing Ballas color lol !) as well as one of the greatest sell out foe (he persistently belittled CJ and given his prior loyalty his betrayal could have been just as big as a shock as Smoke's if utilized). Sadly he barely has any dialogues after House Party and has only two appearances after the betrayal in Photo Opportunity  and Pier 69  (many say his voice character left, I dont know much behind the scene stuffs. TBH Ryder had the potential to be one of the most prominent character in the series (both as a GSF for life hero and a sell out villain) but ended up being one of the most underutilized and wasted character in the whole series.

You need to remember the game's narrative has a set structure and period of events that have to fit in with the length of the storyline. Not every character is gonna be able to have a big piece of the limelight, no matter how much we personally like them, you have look at things realistically. 

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wfank
16 hours ago, Official General said:

You need to remember the game's narrative has a set structure and period of events that have to fit in with the length of the storyline. Not every character is gonna be able to have a big piece of the limelight, no matter how much we personally like them, you have look at things realistically. 

Yes, but at the same time we can distinguish between those that have a big plan behind them and those that do not. We can never compare a minor character like Big Poppa to a major character like Big Smoke. Ryder was in the first part of LS one of the biggest character, the four main GSF besides Seet, CJ and Smoke. From that he went down to being a random character with no new dialogues that was killed off like a random villain (CJ did regret it and mention him later but it was so abrupt). I believe his voice character leaving or whatever had a role in this or maybe they were just too many new characters to focus on after CJ was sent on exile. Regardless Ryder's character was ultimately cut down and wasted.

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muvdafucupouttahere
21 hours ago, Official General said:

You need to remember the game's narrative has a set structure and period of events that have to fit in with the length of the storyline. Not every character is gonna be able to have a big piece of the limelight, no matter how much we personally like them, you have look at things realistically. 

No one's saying Ryder needs a huge spotlight on his own. We're just saying that his character could've been more expanded in the story since he's one of the major characters of the plot and at the very least not have his actions contrived. He had so much potential and it all went to waste in the end.

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Official General
7 hours ago, wfank said:

Yes, but at the same time we can distinguish between those that have a big plan behind them and those that do not. We can never compare a minor character like Big Poppa to a major character like Big Smoke. Ryder was in the first part of LS one of the biggest character, the four main GSF besides Seet, CJ and Smoke. From that he went down to being a random character with no new dialogues that was killed off like a random villain (CJ did regret it and mention him later but it was so abrupt). I believe his voice character leaving or whatever had a role in this or maybe they were just too many new characters to focus on after CJ was sent on exile. Regardless Ryder's character was ultimately cut down and wasted.

 

2 hours ago, muvdafucupouttahere said:

No one's saying Ryder needs a huge spotlight on his own. We're just saying that his character could've been more expanded in the story since he's one of the major characters of the plot and at the very least not have his actions contrived. He had so much potential and it all went to waste in the end.

I still disagree with the both you. 

 

It seems to me that the both of you did not follow the storyline and narrative in good detail, because you both failed to notice that Ryder was depicted as being the most dim-witted out of the main characters within CJ's Grove Street Families circle, which limited his potential for character expansion. Based on this, it became clear to see that Ryder was never going to advance as a character for the duration of the game's storyline. He had no leadership skills, he was easily influenced and corrupted by others (Big Smoke namely), he was not very smart in his logic and generally way of thinking, and importantly, he was heavily into drug use - which even further hindered his ability to establish himself as one of the more high-ranking members of the gang's inner circle. 

 

Simply put, Ryder was made the way he because it was suited to the story's structure and narrative, I personally would not have had it any other way. Every character had potential for expansion, but if you did that the story would never end and it would a structural mess. 

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wfank
14 minutes ago, Official General said:

 

I still disagree with the both you. 

 

It seems to me that the both of you did not follow the storyline and narrative in good detail, because you both failed to notice that Ryder was depicted as being the most dim-witted out of the main characters within CJ's Grove Street Families circle, which limited his potential for character expansion. Based on this, it became clear to see that Ryder was never going to advance as a character for the duration of the game's storyline. He had no leadership skills, he was easily influenced and corrupted by others (Big Smoke namely), he was not very smart in his logic and generally way of thinking, and importantly, he was heavily into drug use - which even further hindered his ability to establish himself as one of the more high-ranking members of the gang's inner circle. 

 

Simply put, Ryder was made the way he because it was suited to the story's structure and narrative, I personally would not have had it any other way. Every character had potential for expansion, but if you did that the story would never end and it would a structural mess. 

Nope Ryder was never shown dim witted, all you are doing is bringing your personal thoughts on the matter. Its you who failed to see the story and narrative. Ryder was a very prominent character who went quiet all of a sudden and killed of like he was just another dude like those workers in  Deconstruction. if you follow the early part of the story, you know how Important Ryder was . Likewise think what you want, but to us Ryder was a vital character who was thrown down the drain.

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Official General
3 minutes ago, wfank said:

Nope Ryder was never shown dim witted, all you are doing is bringing your personal thoughts on the matter. Its you who failed to see the story and narrative. Ryder was a very prominent character who went quiet all of a sudden and killed of like he was just another dude like those workers in  Deconstruction. if you follow the early part of the story, you know how Important Ryder was . Likewise think what you want, but to us Ryder was a vital character who was thrown down the drain.

LOL personal ? Nawww man don't care about it in that way, I'm only stating what was clearly shown. Anyway I don't agree, and Rockstar clearly did not agree with you either, which is highly significant since they created the game and made it that way, so - and that really is all that matters. Peace out 

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wfank
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Official General said:

LOL personal ? Nawww man don't care about it in that way, I'm only stating what was clearly shown. Anyway I don't agree, and Rockstar clearly did not agree with you either, which is highly significant since they created the game and made it that way, so - and that really is all that matters. Peace out 

Nope you clearly dint follow the storyline, there is a huge difference between the important pre Green Saber Ryder (he isnt even mentioned there btw) and the post Ryder who was shown as a forgotten character. And Rockstar never confirmed the "non sense: you claim at all , so the jokes on you. Peace out indeed..

Edited by wfank

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Official General
Just now, wfank said:

Nope you clearly dint follow the storyline, there is a huge difference between the important pre Green Saber Ryder (he isnt even mentioned there btw) and the post Ryder who was shown as a forgotten character. And Rockstar never confirmed the "non sense: you claim at all , so the jokes on you. Peace out indeed.

Uh yeah, sure whatever. 

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muvdafucupouttahere
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Official General said:

 

I still disagree with the both you. 

 

It seems to me that the both of you did not follow the storyline and narrative in good detail, because you both failed to notice that Ryder was depicted as being the most dim-witted out of the main characters within CJ's Grove Street Families circle, which limited his potential for character expansion. Based on this, it became clear to see that Ryder was never going to advance as a character for the duration of the game's storyline. He had no leadership skills, he was easily influenced and corrupted by others (Big Smoke namely), he was not very smart in his logic and generally way of thinking, and importantly, he was heavily into drug use - which even further hindered his ability to establish himself as one of the more high-ranking members of the gang's inner circle. 

 

Simply put, Ryder was made the way he because it was suited to the story's structure and narrative, I personally would not have had it any other way. Every character had potential for expansion, but if you did that the story would never end and it would a structural mess. 

What does being the most dim-witted of the gang even prove? And so what if he wasn't a leader? Big Smoke himself doesn't even have any leadership experience. He was just another soldier. Ryder was the loose cannon of the gang and also a soldier, not to mention already a senior member of the GSF. Plus his lack of logic and general way of thinking is most likely due to the drug he was using. His betrayal just flat-out felt improvised, as no profound thought was put into it and no one else who was a member of the Grove Street gang even acknowledges his absent, not even Sweet. When Ryder was killed off, it was as if we were killing a random gang member that never played an important role to fit the plot, which is why we're saying he was another character with wasted potential. And I'm sorry, but if you really believe Ryder doesn't deserve any real development or actual potential just for not being a leader or "dim-witted", then you may as well just say he shouldn't have even been made a character in the game to begin with since there's no point in having a character you're just gonna randomly kill off in a contrived manner.

Edited by muvdafucupouttahere

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Official General
7 minutes ago, muvdafucupouttahere said:

What does being the most dim-witted of the gang even prove? And so what if he wasn't a leader? Big Smoke himself doesn't even have any leadership experience. He was just another soldier. Ryder was the loose cannon of the gang and also a soldier, not to mention already a senior member of the GSF. Plus his lack of logic and general way of thinking is most likely due to the drug he was using. His betrayal just flat-out felt improvised, as no profound thought was put into it and no one else who was a member of the Grove Street gang even acknowledges his absent, not even Sweet. When Ryder was killed off, it was as if we were killing a random gang member that never played an important role to fit the plot, which is why we're saying he was another character with wasted potential. And I'm sorry, but if you really believe Ryder doesn't deserve any real development or actual potential just for not being a leader or "dim-witted", then you may as well just say he shouldn't have even been made a character in the game to begin with since there's no point in having a character you're just gonna randomly kill off in a contrived manner.

San Andreas was made 15 YEARS AGO, back in 2004. The storylines for most games back the was of a very standard, basic level of writing, they were nothing like the standards that became the norm of the HD-era of gaming, which are currently in.

 

Seriously bro, give the game a break. 

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muvdafucupouttahere
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Official General said:

San Andreas was made 15 YEARS AGO, back in 2004. The storylines for most games back the was of a very standard, basic level of writing, they were nothing like the standards that became the norm of the HD-era of gaming, which are currently in.

 

Seriously bro, give the game a break. 

This is the GTA Forum, pal. Being 15 years old doesn't stop anyone for making these topics, now does it? People nowadays still talk about the old Tony Hawk games even though it's been over a decade since those came out. You certainly weren't complaining about how long ago it's been since the game's released when you replied to my other comment.

Edited by muvdafucupouttahere

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wfank
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Official General said:

San Andreas was made 15 YEARS AGO, back in 2004. The storylines for most games back the was of a very standard, basic level of writing, they were nothing like the standards that became the norm of the HD-era of gaming, which are currently in.

 

Seriously bro, give the game a break. 

That is your dimwitteds opinion,m San Andreas has a bigger and more deep story than your baby game GTA 5 which is all about the heist. I might have joined this forum last year but Ive been playing GTA since GTA 2 in 1999 and a gamer since the 90s arcade days and have played SA since 2006. I have seen 90s game better with bigger and deeper story than GTA 5. regardless do not go off topic on this post. If you dont like something, then no one is forcing you to like it, but do not tell others what to do, what game they should "leave it" or not.

Edited by wfank

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wfank

Addition: On an edit note (as my new post will be merged, I do appreciate your opinions Official General, as Rockstar gave no official reason behind Ryder's abrupt throw away, everything everyone can say (including you and I) are just speculations. We are entitled to believe what we want, you can believe what you want and I can believe what I want, cause after all these years there is no way knowing what actually happened. Regardless the main thing is we are just fellow gamers and we can continue to enjoy the game as long as we like, cheers :) . 

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watersgta3
On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 3:54 PM, Official General said:

 

I still disagree with the both you. 

 

It seems to me that the both of you did not follow the storyline and narrative in good detail, because you both failed to notice that Ryder was depicted as being the most dim-witted out of the main characters within CJ's Grove Street Families circle, which limited his potential for character expansion. Based on this, it became clear to see that Ryder was never going to advance as a character for the duration of the game's storyline. He had no leadership skills, he was easily influenced and corrupted by others (Big Smoke namely), he was not very smart in his logic and generally way of thinking, and importantly, he was heavily into drug use - which even further hindered his ability to establish himself as one of the more high-ranking members of the gang's inner circle. 

 

Simply put, Ryder was made the way he because it was suited to the story's structure and narrative, I personally would not have had it any other way. Every character had potential for expansion, but if you did that the story would never end and it would a structural mess. 

Seriously, dude, was it too much for you to just simply say he shouldn't have been made a character in the game to begin with? I mean I would much rather not have him included in the game at all than to be inexplicably written as a minor character after his spontaneous betrayal and ignored after being haphazardly killed off.

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lil weasel

A video game is a "Book" of sorts with interactive story  responses (game play).

If Ryder was not included it would only be a name of a different Rose, the stink would be the same.

Every story needs characters to drive it along. And when the character has finished its job it is dropped, or removed.

 

Would "Mister Roberts" have been as entertaining without Ensign Pulver. Maybe, but I can live with them.

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Official General
15 hours ago, watersgta3 said:

1. Seriously, dude, was it too much for you to just simply say he shouldn't have been made a character in the game to begin with?

 

2. I mean I would much rather not have him included in the game at all than to be inexplicably written as a minor character after his spontaneous betrayal and ignored after being haphazardly killed off.

1. No. Simply because what you have suggested here is not how I see it, and I most certainly disagree with it too. So therefore I cannot say it. 

 

2. Nah not me, no way. Why would I want Ryder removed from the game and have one less memorable and funny character in the story ? I am more than happy with Ryder's place in the story. I very much understand that many SA fans really liked him and wanted to see more of him or where no satisfied with manner of his exit, honestly I get it. But for me, the way Ryder was written out of the story was of no major significance to me and it was not detrimental to my experience of playing through the story. To me, Ryder is who he is, his many personality flaws ensured that he was going to have an early exit, I saw it that way and I'm perfectly fine with it. 

Edited by Official General

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watersgta3
16 hours ago, Official General said:

1. No. Simply because what you have suggested here is not how I see it, and I most certainly disagree with it too. So therefore I cannot say it. 

 

2. Nah not me, no way. Why would I want Ryder removed from the game and have one less memorable and funny character in the story ? I am more than happy with Ryder's place in the story. I very much understand that many SA fans really liked him and wanted to see more of him or where no satisfied with manner of his exit, honestly I get it. But for me, the way Ryder was written out of the story was of no major significance to me and it was not detrimental to my experience of playing through the story. To me, Ryder is who he is, his many personality flaws ensured that he was going to have an early exit, I saw it that way and I'm perfectly fine with it. 

I, for one, felt that if he was gonna be killed off, it should be in a way in which the members of the GSF acknowledges it and not treat him as if he's a minor character no different from Little Weasel. R* had three choices, they could've either

 

a) Have Ryder stay loyal to the gang and help CJ and his friends (hell I actually wrote a story on fanfiction here on how to handle this: (https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12231702/1/Grand-Theft-Auto-San-Andreas-Re-write)

 

b) Kill him off at the Green Sabre mission as a loyal member since it would be much more profound

 

                                            or..........

 

c) Don't include him in the game at all since they don't know what they would do for him by the storyline's second half.

 

Either of those choices would've made up for how desultory his betrayal and death both were.

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