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FlexiveFowl

Ryder ignored after betrayal

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FlexiveFowl

After Ryder betrayed the Grove Street Families in Green Sabre CJ didn't even acknowledge the fact he was there, all he did was pay attention to Smoke and C.R.A.S.H, and when he reported it to Sweet, all he said was Smoke sold us out, he didn't even mention Ryder being there. Ryder's death on Pier 69 was crap like a side villains death, and it isn't even explained why Ryder did what he did. 

 

Did R* not know what to do with him after Green Sabre?

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lil weasel

Ryder is an unimportant character after the Arms Hi-Jackings.

He is only included later, to wrap up his participation.  A "Has Been" character of no value, once his job was done.

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Official General
19 hours ago, FlexiveFowl said:

After Ryder betrayed the Grove Street Families in Green Sabre CJ didn't even acknowledge the fact he was there, all he did was pay attention to Smoke and C.R.A.S.H, and when he reported it to Sweet, all he said was Smoke sold us out, he didn't even mention Ryder being there. Ryder's death on Pier 69 was crap like a side villains death, and it isn't even explained why Ryder did what he did. 

 

Did R* not know what to do with him after Green Sabre?

CJ in fact did acknowledge what Ryder did. I am pretty sure he mentioned Ryder's betrayal to Kendl in a cutscene of a San Fierro mission not too long after he had killed his old friend, and he seemed distraught about it when he spoke about it to her. Besides, the main object of his betrayal was Big Smoke, so naturally, the focus would be more on him, since it was Big Smoke that was the ringleader of the betrayal.

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watersgta3

Yeah, this topic will never get old (I'm not being sarcastic either, I mean it). To answer the question, R* just simply had no idea what to do with Ryder. Even his death scene was dull, and the scene in which Cesar told CJ that Ryder tried to bang Kendl made absolutely no sense whatsoever since that was brought up randomly without any hints nor evidence. Like I said in the last topic, Ryder was either turned into a traitor at the last second with no motivation whatsoever or was originally going to be a side character right before R* saw appeal in his design and made him one of the main characters and didn't plan his actions well. Because let's face it. Ryder's betrayal was obviously improvised, it makes no sense, he had no motivation, and there were never any actual hints of his betrayal, unlike Smoke. Sure we see what happens in the introduction, but that came out AFTER the game. Other than that, Ryder's betrayal was just poorly written, which is a shame since it would've been cool to see him and CJ put their differences aside and team up together since CJ and Ryder have a great love-hate relationship with each other.

 

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lil weasel

As in any Novel, each character has its purpose. Once the purpose has been achieved there is no need to have it carry on.

The Game is not a Documentary of the life of real people, it is an Entertainment, a series of connected moves with a "story" to make it more entertaining, to keep a persons interest for 40 hours. Not a life story.

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TheSantader25
2 hours ago, watersgta3 said:

Yeah, this topic will never get old (I'm not being sarcastic either, I mean it). To answer the question, R* just simply had no idea what to do with Ryder. Even his death scene was dull, and the scene in which Cesar told CJ that Ryder tried to bang Kendl made absolutely no sense whatsoever since that was brought up randomly without any hints nor evidence. Like I said in the last topic, Ryder was either turned into a traitor at the last second with no motivation whatsoever or was originally going to be a side character right before R* saw appeal in his design and made him one of the main characters and didn't plan his actions well. Because let's face it. Ryder's betrayal was obviously improvised, it makes no sense, he had no motivation, and there were never any actual hints of his betrayal, unlike Smoke. Sure we see what happens in the introduction, but that came out AFTER the game. Other than that, Ryder's betrayal was just poorly written, which is a shame since it would've been cool to see him and CJ put their differences aside and team up together since CJ and Ryder have a great love-hate relationship with each other.

 

Tenpenny is seen in Ryder's house during "Catalyst". 

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watersgta3
5 hours ago, lil weasel said:

As in any Novel, each character has its purpose. Once the purpose has been achieved there is no need to have it carry on.

The Game is not a Documentary of the life of real people, it is an Entertainment, a series of connected moves with a "story" to make it more entertaining, to keep a persons interest for 40 hours. Not a life story.

Yeah, nobody has insinuated that it was a life story or documentary. I'm just saying how poorly written Ryder's betrayal was.

Edited by watersgta3

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muvdafucupouttahere
On 11/7/2018 at 10:53 AM, Official General said:

CJ in fact did acknowledge what Ryder did. I am pretty sure he mentioned Ryder's betrayal to Kendl in a cutscene of a San Fierro mission not too long after he had killed his old friend, and he seemed distraught about it when he spoke about it to her. Besides, the main object of his betrayal was Big Smoke, so naturally, the focus would be more on him, since it was Big Smoke that was the ringleader of the betrayal.

Can you show me a video of CJ talking to Kendl about Ryder's betrayal? Where's the evidence?!

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Motka

I think what happened was that R* added Ryder in The Green Sabre's betrayal cutscene at the last minute to add more shock on top of the fact that Smoke was already betraying you. Mainly judging by the fact that his betrayal is never really mentioned until Photo Opportunity.

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Rocket1921

Maybe R*  had a problem with Ryder´s voice actor

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lil weasel

maybe Ryder was just a small character, and his part was all they needed, as published....

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Official General
13 hours ago, muvdafucupouttahere said:

Can you show me a video of CJ talking to Kendl about Ryder's betrayal? Where's the evidence?!

He spoke to someone about it. I'm not sure if it was her, Cesar, or Sweet maybe, but definitely mentioned it to someone else. I'd have to play the game all over again. 

Edited by Official General

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watersgta3
9 hours ago, Official General said:

He spoke to someone about it. I'm not sure if it was her, Cesar, or Sweet maybe, but definitely mentioned it to someone else. I'd have to play the game all over again. 

Yeah. He told Cesar about it. CJ admitted that he was upset he killed Ryder because he was one of his homies. But Cesar made up some sh*t about Ryder trying to bang Kendl to make CJ feel better about killing Ryder (similar to how Rosenberg told Tommy how he's glad he took out Lance in VC), never mind the fact that no evidence nor hints corroborate that claim.

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Official General
42 minutes ago, watersgta3 said:

Yeah. He told Cesar about it. CJ admitted that he was upset he killed Ryder because he was one of his homies. But Cesar made up some sh*t about Ryder trying to bang Kendl to make CJ feel better about killing Ryder (similar to how Rosenberg told Tommy how he's glad he took out Lance in VC), never mind the fact that no evidence nor hints corroborate that claim.

Thank you, yeah you are right, it was Cesar indeed, I remember now that you refreshed my memory. That put's to rest the OP's main point. 

 

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 10:59 PM, FlexiveFowl said:

it isn't even explained why Ryder did what he did. 

It's pretty simple. Ryder did it because he was under the influence of Big Smoke, and just like Big Smoke, he wanted the riches too. 

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muvdafucupouttahere

To answer this topic, it's just plain bad writing. Simple. R* probably made Ryder a traitor because they just simply had no idea what they should do with him, and thus, he was treated as a minor character who quickly becomes forgotten after his dull ass death. Even his lines when you're about to kill him were recycled. Waste of a good character.

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Big_Smiley
1 hour ago, muvdafucupouttahere said:

To answer this topic, it's just plain bad writing. Simple. R* probably made Ryder a traitor because they just simply had no idea what they should do with him, and thus, he was treated as a minor character who quickly becomes forgotten after his dull ass death. Even his lines when you're about to kill him were recycled. Waste of a good character.

There's crazy evidence in the beta like I always mention regarding this case that Ryder was supposed to stick by CJ's side all the way during the final events in LS. It's one of the few things that I acutally never liked in SA. Waste of a good character indeed. Ryder was truly down for the Groove. Shame really. Also the fact that his voice actor triple OG MC Eiht could have possibly done more voice acting for Ryder after the events of the green sabre. But knowing R* and their history of paying voice actors poorly, mabye something just came up and things had to change for Ryder. In stupid ways of course. Ryders death in Pier 69 was just plain whack.

Edited by Big_Smiley

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Official General
14 hours ago, Big_Smiley said:

There's crazy evidence in the beta like I always mention regarding this case that Ryder was supposed to stick by CJ's side all the way during the final events in LS. It's one of the few things that I acutally never liked in SA. Waste of a good character indeed. Ryder was truly down for the Groove. Shame really. Also the fact that his voice actor triple OG MC Eiht could have possibly done more voice acting for Ryder after the events of the green sabre. But knowing R* and their history of paying voice actors poorly, mabye something just came up and things had to change for Ryder. In stupid ways of course. Ryders death in Pier 69 was just plain whack.

I was fine with Ryder's role. I fully get what Rockstar did with Ryder - they made him a very loyal guy committed to the greater cause of his gang friends, but at the same time he was dim-witted and lacking in smarts, which meant he was very easily influenced and manipulated by much more cunning and ruthless associates like Big Smoke. It was clear that Ryder was simply not intelligent or assertive enough to follow his own instincts and work out what was morally best; stay down with his gang, or betray them and everything they shared together for a bit of cash and power - he was simply that guy who followed the crowd or leader if it looked or felt appealing to do so, not because he genuinely desired to follow.  

Edited by Official General

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Big_Smiley
15 hours ago, Official General said:

It was clear that Ryder was simply not intelligent or assertive enough to follow his own instincts

Irony cause Ryder brags on that one mission saying "I'm too intelligent for this sh*t fool....oh geah" :p...Lol. Makes pretty good sense.

Edited by Big_Smiley

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watersgta3

Here are two videos that show an analysis on Ryder's betrayal:

 

 

It pretty much shows that Ryder's betrayal was more of an afterthought and a last-minute swap. Also, I wrote a fanfiction story on how I would re-write Ryder's portrayal, and you can check it out if you like.

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Reameb
21 hours ago, watersgta3 said:

Here are two videos that show an analysis on Ryder's betrayal:

Spoiler



 

It pretty much shows that Ryder's betrayal was more of an afterthought and a last-minute swap. Also, I wrote a fanfiction story on how I would re-write Ryder's portrayal, and you can check it out if you like.

This pretty much explains everything there is about ryder, i too agree about him being killed off poorly, i think the major red flag is the poor executed dialogue in latter missions.

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Gtaman_92

Ryder originally wasn’t supposed to betray Grove Street that’s why.

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Pofkėnas
On 11/10/2018 at 4:00 AM, Big_Smiley said:

There's crazy evidence in the beta like I always mention regarding this case that Ryder was supposed to stick by CJ's side all the way during the final events in LS. It's one of the few things that I acutally never liked in SA. Waste of a good character indeed. Ryder was truly down for the Groove. Shame really. Also the fact that his voice actor triple OG MC Eiht could have possibly done more voice acting for Ryder after the events of the green sabre. But knowing R* and their history of paying voice actors poorly, mabye something just came up and things had to change for Ryder. In stupid ways of course. Ryders death in Pier 69 was just plain whack.

 

On 11/16/2018 at 1:14 AM, Gtaman_92 said:

Ryder originally wasn’t supposed to betray Grove Street that’s why.

Is there any actual evidence that Ryder was originally supposed to stay by CJ's side? Would be really interesting to see.

 

There've been some rumors that R* had plans to make Ryder stay with CJ but since it's known that they didn't pay very much to voice actors at that time, there could've been their dispute with MC Eight (just like with Ray Liotta), plus he could also have had to work with his albums, so he refused to continue voicing Ryder. Then R* had no other choice than to make Ryder betray CJ.

Edited by Pofkėnas

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DroidX

I always thought the same thing. Ryder would had been a great character to have around the final events of the game. but in the introduction. Ryder seemed like he was willing to betray grove street with smoke right from the start

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Beg_Ultra

I think The Introduction was made later, after the game was finished and when Ryder was already made a traitor

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watersgta3
5 hours ago, Beg_Ultra said:

I think The Introduction was made later, after the game was finished and when Ryder was already made a traitor

Of course the introduction was made after the game was released. They just simply made that to show why Ryder did what he did, and it shows he had no intentions to betray the gang and was just talked into it.

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lil weasel

Ryder as the character of fictiion (to add colour to the story) was of no real use after the "Betrayal" scene.

 

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Ma-mothers-Ma-Sister

He would of most likely been killed off anyway if he stayed with grove street 

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muvdafucupouttahere
On 12/24/2018 at 5:44 PM, Ma-mothers-Ma-Sister said:

He would of most likely been killed off anyway if he stayed with grove street 

Mind explaining how?

Here's how I would've written Ryder: After the Green Sabre mission, CJ learns that while Sweet is in a prison hospital, Ryder is somehow put in rehab due to his marijuana addiction, and when CJ enters LV, he gets a call from Toreno to visit an unknown friend at the rehabilitation center. That unknown friend turns out to be Ryder, who is fresh and clean from the water (no pun intended), and CJ and Ryder work together in a similar fashion as CJ and Cesar in LV to build a new empire in said city. I also would like for CJ and Ryder's love-hate relationship to retain through the rest of the story up until the end, when Ryder actually does give CJ props at the end.

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lil weasel
5 hours ago, muvdafucupouttahere said:

Mind explaining how?

Here's how I would've written Ryder: After the Green Sabre mission, CJ learns that while Sweet is in a prison hospital, Ryder is somehow put in rehab due to his marijuana addiction, and when CJ enters LV, he gets a call from Toreno to visit an unknown friend at the rehabilitation center. That unknown friend turns out to be Ryder, who is fresh and clean from the water (no pun intended), and CJ and Ryder work together in a similar fashion as CJ and Cesar in LV to build a new empire in said city. I also would like for CJ and Ryder's love-hate relationship to retain through the rest of the story up until the end, when Ryder actually does give CJ props at the end.

False premise, There is No Addiction to Mary-Jane, and  The "Rehabilitation" Scam was not rolling out then for non-Celebrities.

Ryder if at  all, would have been in prison for his arms dealing, and Heroine use. Not any kind of addiction help. Nobody cared about inner city "help".

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watersgta3
2 hours ago, lil weasel said:

False premise, There is No Addiction to Mary-Jane, and  The "Rehabilitation" Scam was not rolling out then for non-Celebrities.

Ryder if at  all, would have been in prison for his arms dealing, and Heroine use. Not any kind of addiction help. Nobody cared about inner city "help".

It's a video game, dude. It's not that serious. By your logic, CJ would've been in prison for the many acts of crime he committed. It's all fiction.

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