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BlondieandTuco

SPOILER:The Tragedy that is Red Dead Redemption

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BlondieandTuco

I think the most tragic part of these games is the most overlooked, Johns eventual death and being used by the law to hunt his old gang is all due to the revenge we took on Micah for killing Arthur/betraying the gang. Abigail begs John not to go after Micah but he ignores her, the end credits then show us Ross finding Micahs body as he was still an informant for them and he starts an investigation on finding out who killed Micah leading to the credit scene of Ross finding the ranch. If John didn't go after Micah, Ross probably would've just kept hunting Dutch on his own and believing John was gone with his family. In the end it was our love for Arthur that cost John his life, as Arthur says to Dutch multiple times throughout the game quoting Dutch's own teaching on revenge being a path of more needless pain, which was also Dutch's own downfall due to him not being able to let go of Colm, Cornwall, and Bronte. We all forgot how Arthur specifically holds Johns hand when they escape the cave in Beechers Hope and tells him to not look back on the past, Arthur wanted John to forget everything about this life including any hatred towards their former friends turned enemies, but love has a strange way of taking over, in the end the Johns redemption of Arthurs death was his own death. 4:36

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AUScowboy

I can't believe there are people actually saying the story sucked... they must be jaded PC players. Seriously though, 2 may have dragged on at points, but the storytelling and minor details that glue both games together very much impressed me. Great characters and character arcs, close attention paid to continuity aside from a few very small blemishes. Arthur is and will continue to be in my top 3 favorite R* characters of all time, Saddie ranks highly too. Arthur's need to look after and mentor her is super sweet, and her determination and dogged sense of what is right seemed to help Arthur see how Dutch was beginning to change rapidly and remind Art what being a gang was all about: looking after one another and keeping each other safe while living a dangerous lifestyle, and also preventing one another from ever crossing the line too far like Dutch.

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tonko

For me RDR 2 story is just like RDR 1 story, tragic and beautiful at the same time.

 

In both games: Friendship. Betrayal. A way of life is dying. What lies ahead?

 

 

Edited by tonko
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JumpingKentFlash

It might even be the best story R* ever did. Tragic and beautiful is 100% correct. 

When I played through the first game I always assumed that the Pinkerton agency had paid for Beecher’s Hope,  and used that to get John to find the old gang.

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Gallows
16 minutes ago, JumpingKentFlash said:

It might even be the best story R* ever did. Tragic and beautiful is 100% correct. 

When I played through the first game I always assumed that the Pinkerton agency had paid for Beecher’s Hope,  and used that to get John to find the old gang.

It is without a doubt the best story I have experienced in any video game ever. I liked the first one and this one was even better.

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TheSantader25

I actually like the way R* described the story pre release. It's a "companion" to RDR. not a "prequel". When you "combine" these two stories together, what you get is one of the best stories written in any type of media. 

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Gallows
5 minutes ago, TheSantader25 said:

I actually like the way R* described the story pre release. It's a "companion" to RDR. not a "prequel". When you "combine" these two stories together, what you get is one of the best stories written in any type of media. 

Yes, I agree. I’d love to see a game exploring the early years of the Dutch gang, closer to the age of gunslingers. Would make a brilliant DLC, where the gang are slightly noble outlaws. It would also make a brilliant open ended end game, with the gang active and you having access to different activities.

Edited by Gallows
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Spider-Vice
1 hour ago, AUScowboy said:

they must be jaded PC players.

PC player here - RDR (the series) has one of the best stories of any game ever. I don't own a console. Please don't start it up with that.

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JumpingKentFlash

.... and to add: Video games can do a very slow burning story that keeps you locked in for days. No other media can do that. A movie does it in 2 hours. A song is maybe 4 minutes. Video games can take their time doing it, just like we had with RDR2. 

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Gallows
1 minute ago, JumpingKentFlash said:

.... and to add: Video games can do a very slow burning story that keeps you locked in for days. No other media can do that. A movie does it in 2 hours. A song is maybe 4 minutes. Video games can take their time doing it, just like we had with RDR2. 

But most video game plots are shallow, carried by the action. I think it’s an incredible accomplishment to tell such a great story through this media.

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HockeyMike24
11 minutes ago, Spider-Vice said:

PC player here - RDR (the series) has one of the best stories of any game ever. I don't own a console. Please don't start it up with that.

Really? How do you survive being on this forum all the time and not getting to play the game? That's a tragic story right there lol

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Spider-Vice

The journey still awaits for me ;) I don't know much about the journey. No condition to get a console atm so.

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HockeyMike24

John was in a difficult situation that he viewed he didn't have a choice. Arthur saved him and Micah betrayed them all but most of all Arthur. That's what I like about John's story at the end. He just couldn't cope with how his life needed to change to the new world. Once a gunslinger always a gunslinger. 

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JumpingKentFlash
14 minutes ago, Gallows said:

But most video game plots are shallow, carried by the action. I think it’s an incredible accomplishment to tell such a great story through this media.

That really depends on what game we’re talking about. It can be “dumb action” yes, but it can certainly also be a great device for storytelling. I always thought that GTA V was a bit too much in the “dumb action” category. The story in that game is kinda meh, and it becomes too much with the whole government thing. RDR2 is R* at its best. They should keep their games more in the RDR vein.

6 minutes ago, Spider-Vice said:

The journey still awaits for me ;) I don't know much about the journey. No condition to get a console atm so.

I seriously feel bad that you haven’t played it yet. You really have something to look forward to.

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AUScowboy
1 hour ago, Spider-Vice said:

PC player here - RDR (the series) has one of the best stories of any game ever. I don't own a console. Please don't start it up with that.

Not trying to start an argument at all, I've just run into more than a few detractors who openly identify as PC gamers who are on an obvious campaign to crap over every aspect of the game from graphics and controls to story and side activities... 

 

I for one hope the PC version comes asap so they can see just how wrong they are for the most part :)

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Audiophile
23 minutes ago, AUScowboy said:

Not trying to start an argument at all, I've just run into more than a few detractors who openly identify as PC gamers who are on an obvious campaign to crap over every aspect of the game from graphics and controls to story and side activities... 

 

I for one hope the PC version comes asap so they can see just how wrong they are for the most part :)

I've experienced the opposite....the GTA:O kiddies are the ones hating on the story because it's "too slow" for them. I know a couple PC player who are waiting to play and from what they know of the story, they are hooked. 

 

It all depends on our own experiences, I guess, but that's been mine with PC players. 

 

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King Vercetti

Not to veer off topic, but ther majority of zero score reviews on Metacritic are from self professed PC players that are clearly mad that they aren't getting the game yet, and are trashing it despite not playing it. Of course not all PC players are that way, and I would say most aren't that way. Just the childish spoiled whiny ones lol

 

As for the story, it's absolutely beautiful and heartbreaking in every way. I would say before this, the first RDR was the best video game story I had ever witnessed, with GTA IV being a close second. But RDR 2 easily and effortlessly surpasses them both by a mile. 

 

 

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ThroatSlasher2
3 hours ago, Gallows said:

Yes, I agree. I’d love to see a game exploring the early years of the Dutch gang, closer to the age of gunslingers. Would make a brilliant DLC, where the gang are slightly noble outlaws. It would also make a brilliant open ended end game, with the gang active and you having access to different activities.

As much as it would probably make a cool experience, I just don't see the point. 

 

We've seen all that needed to be seen from this core of characters.

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BlondieandTuco
1 hour ago, King Vercetti said:

Not to veer off topic, but ther majority of zero score reviews on Metacritic are from self professed PC players that are clearly mad that they aren't getting the game yet, and are trashing it despite not playing it. Of course not all PC players are that way, and I would say most aren't that way. Just the childish spoiled whiny ones lol

 

As for the story, it's absolutely beautiful and heartbreaking in every way. I would say before this, the first RDR was the best video game story I had ever witnessed, with GTA IV being a close second. But RDR 2 easily and effortlessly surpasses them both by a mile. 

 

 

Red Dead Redemption was probably the game that set me up for story driven games, I was still in high school when the first game came out and I faintly remembered my cousin having Red Dead Revolver so I gave it a shot "It's Rockstar how bad could it be?" God I remember sitting there in absolute shock after trying to restart the last mission 3 times to see if I was failing the dead eye event after exiting the barn before John dies, only to realize that it was his death for real and not even wanting to continue, the first stage of grief is denial and i didn't even want to touch the game for a week or so after that, realizing that Jack was hunting Ross when I went to that stranger question mark made me so pumped. 

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King Vercetti

You just described exactly what I felt as well. Red Dead Redemption was the first video game to ever make me feel such a wide range of emotions and leave me wrecked after finishing the story. It was sort of a "well, that was an awesome story, but I don't feel so good right now" kind of moment lol. Even since then, very few games have even come close to matching the effectiveness of what Rockstar pulled off with RDR in my opinion. I think when I finally picked it back up again to free roam a few weeks after I beat it, I just pretended the ending never happened, because I didn't want to believe it all had to end the way it did lol. 

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Gallows
6 hours ago, ThroatSlasher2 said:

As much as it would probably make a cool experience, I just don't see the point. 

 

We've seen all that needed to be seen from this core of characters.

Maybe not the gang, but the setting. I do think it could be fun seeing the creation and early years of the gang, but really it’s the time period. A more Wild West.

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JOSEPH X
12 hours ago, Gallows said:

Yes, I agree. I’d love to see a game exploring the early years of the Dutch gang, closer to the age of gunslingers. Would make a brilliant DLC, where the gang are slightly noble outlaws. It would also make a brilliant open ended end game, with the gang active and you having access to different activities.

If they set RDR 3 in 1860 it would still open with "The year is 1860 and the age of gunslingers is coming to an end" I don't think you people get how much of this game is gun control propaganda.

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MCMXCII
15 hours ago, Spider-Vice said:

PC player here - RDR (the series) has one of the best stories of any game ever. I don't own a console. Please don't start it up with that.

If I could, I'd chip in in helping you get a console so you can experience this amazing game firsthand. 

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player_one
18 hours ago, Gallows said:

It is without a doubt the best story I have experienced in any video game ever. I liked the first one and this one was even better.

I agree, the end of chapter 6 really hit me hard. Especially that moment saying thank you to your horse. It’s that final stage of everything falling to pieces.

 

incredible!

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Gallows
7 hours ago, JOSEPH X said:

If they set RDR 3 in 1860 it would still open with "The year is 1860 and the age of gunslingers is coming to an end" I don't think you people get how much of this game is gun control propaganda.

Just like the left seems to get triggered by stupid crap like milk, I think you should not read too much into it. Guns are the solution to many problems in the game and being unarmed is a bad idea. Besides politics are irrelevant in terms of my desire for a game set in that period. The world will soon become more sane again and PC will be burned at the stake like the filthy brain washing witch it is 😏

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Cozzi
20 hours ago, Spider-Vice said:

The journey still awaits for me ;) I don't know much about the journey. No condition to get a console atm so.

Jesus Christ someone buy spider a console! The man moderates the spoiler part of the forums! lol.

 

17 hours ago, BlondieandTuco said:

realizing that Jack was hunting Ross when I went to that stranger question mark made me so pumped. 

But I think that goes back to the theme of revenge being not worth it in the end. dutch and his revenge get the gang killed or broken up. John and his revenge get Ross on his tail. So I would imagine that (although he killed Ross in Mexico) things might not have turned out too well for Jack after 1914 either. I really wanted to know what happens with that kid. 

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Pocket Fox

I find it quite sad and melancholy that Arthur gives his life so John, Abigail and Jack can live a 'good life'. But in reality, John goes through hell, dies and Abigail/Jack don't fare much better.

I look at it like this, the Nun at the train station who talked to Arthur about helping others. While Arthur died for John, John was able to do a lot of good in RDR1, and also I guess Arthur indirectly saved Jack in the end (unless RDR3 is a thing).

 

Before the game was out, I suspected Arthur would die, but thought otherwise when I began playing. As soon as he had TB though I knew it was over. 

 

But dammit.... your horse dies too! So it was incredibly sad for me.

 

When my parents visited me on the weekend it was really weird to explain I was melancholy because a horse and a fictional character in a videogame died 😭

 

Semi related. When I played as John and went to the first gang hideout south of Valentine and saw the old campfires I heard feint singing and music, the gang I guess, but I swear I heard Arthur singing. Also, I saw a white-tail buck, Arthur's spirit animal in my playthrough (although that was probably just luck). I don't hunt the deers anymore, they are all Arthurs, they will live wild and free in the west.

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BlondieandTuco
7 hours ago, Cozzi said:

Jesus Christ someone buy spider a console! The man moderates the spoiler part of the forums! lol.

 

But I think that goes back to the theme of revenge being not worth it in the end. dutch and his revenge get the gang killed or broken up. John and his revenge get Ross on his tail. So I would imagine that (although he killed Ross in Mexico) things might not have turned out too well for Jack after 1914 either. I really wanted to know what happens with that kid. 

I don't think RDR3 will be about Jack nor will we get a complete story on Jack after his parents died, by the time you hunt down Ross it's almost the start of World War 1 and the wild west is practically dead. Rockstar mentioned that the epilogue of the first game didn't have more story missions because they want to keep Jacks fate ambiguous to the players playstyle, as it would be a little overdoing the tragedy theme if they give us a story with Jack dying as well. A fun little easter egg in LA Noire is that you can find John Marstons hat in a garbage bin near one of the murder scenes, it's probably not canon but I always liked to imagine Jack moved to California and became a scriptwriter or bookwriter like he always wanted, most say that he just became a bounty hunter to support himself. It's sad to realize that Jack, Mary Beth, Sadie, and Charles are the last members of the gang and the latter are either dead or long gone, I feel if we do get a sequel it will be far back at the peak of the wild west, maybe even giving us a fresh story arc the way RDR1 split away from Red Dead Revolver.

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BlondieandTuco
On 11/6/2018 at 6:09 AM, HockeyMike24 said:

John was in a difficult situation that he viewed he didn't have a choice. Arthur saved him and Micah betrayed them all but most of all Arthur. That's what I like about John's story at the end. He just couldn't cope with how his life needed to change to the new world. Once a gunslinger always a gunslinger. 

You're right about the once a gunslinger always a gunslinger, but John didn't have a lack of trying not to be. We see him express deeply that he wants to become a family man, like when Arthur tells him all the money is in the cave and he has the key John replies that he has a family now and Arthur can go get it if he wants but his family is more important. From willingly going into debt to get Abigail and Jack back, too getting rid of a new gang trying to take over his ranch, too building a house with what remains of the gang. John's story is tragic because he no longer wants to be the gunslinger, but it seems at every turn a gunslinger is needed, if John could've had a simple life with his family he would've, but ultimately his loyalty is what pulled him back into the life, he's such a family man that he "willingly" gives up his life so that his family won't be harassed any longer because of his past.

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HockeyMike24
8 hours ago, BlondieandTuco said:

You're right about the once a gunslinger always a gunslinger, but John didn't have a lack of trying not to be. We see him express deeply that he wants to become a family man, like when Arthur tells him all the money is in the cave and he has the key John replies that he has a family now and Arthur can go get it if he wants but his family is more important. From willingly going into debt to get Abigail and Jack back, too getting rid of a new gang trying to take over his ranch, too building a house with what remains of the gang. John's story is tragic because he no longer wants to be the gunslinger, but it seems at every turn a gunslinger is needed, if John could've had a simple life with his family he would've, but ultimately his loyalty is what pulled him back into the life, he's such a family man that he "willingly" gives up his life so that his family won't be harassed any longer because of his past.

Well it's like Arthur said to John. "Don't try to be two people at once" An Outlaw and a family man. You're right, he does want to be a family man. But he also can't put his guns down, ultimately this is what kills him.

 

I agree that he wants to become this family man. But his past won't let him. 

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