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Kefalo84

Entering New Austin territory? (may contain spoilers)

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Darealbandicoot
2 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

For me personally, NA's implementation in the game is poor. The location itself is fine, but the amount of retconning there is so John can go there is a bit much. Some say this is fan service for hardcore fans but I see a few of the hardcore fans are disappointed with the retconning, and most importantly, not being able to visit there with Arthur.

It makes no sense for John to go there in 1907. It makes no sense he can hang out in Tumbleweed where we know in the first game he never visited. Even if you ignore the retconning and look at it as a tribute, a homage to the first game, which it mostly is, it still makes zero sense that Arthur gets sniped when he crosses the border.

There's barely any law there for a start. Arthur is not wanted there, he even says they are wanted in three states, and those states, at that point in the story, are West Elizabeth, New Hanover and Lemoyne. "The gang never went there" also doesn't mean Arthur never did. He's a "wanderer" outside of the camp, he even uses that term to describe himself in a cutscene. He is NOT wanted in New Austin, there is zero indication he is, yet treetop snipers are waiting for him when he crosses the border, I find that to be a ridiculously unnecessary restriction.

I can't explore it with Arthur and finish all my trapper outfits, and finish all the collectibles. I can't buy the new outfits there with Arthur. It's just a pain in the arse. I can't be the "man with no name" who wanders into a dusty town and gets into a shootout with the local gang. Yeah sure, you can as John, but that's just it, I already did all that 8 years ago. The point for me to include NA in RDR 2 is to allow us to see the place from a different perspective.

And all it would take is a patch to remove the "snipers." If some of the events don't work with Arthur, then leave them locked until 1907. They can even leave Blackwater locked down because it fits the narrative, but once I cross that border into lawless NA, there is no sensible reason why I get instant killed. But I doubt that patch is going to happen.

It seems like this was a very late addition to the game for a couple of reasons like the way lawmen spawn out of thin air and stutter into each other while shooting you with automatic machine guns until you look at them. Also, having Arthur visit New Austin makes WAAAAAAYY more sense than John visiting and then forgetting he ever went there. Hell, even Arthur has exclusive outfits only available in New Austin, yet he gets sniped by God when he crosses the border. @Cutter De Blanc Is there any indication in New Austin that its 1907 by any chance? 

Edited by Darealbandicoot
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Cutter De Blanc
23 minutes ago, Darealbandicoot said:

 @Cutter De Blanc Is there any indication in New Austin that its 1907 by any chance? 

I will check some of the tombstones to find a latest date as John, I can't get there as Arthur

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Self-Destructive Man
3 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

It makes no sense for John to go there in 1907. It makes no sense he can hang out in Tumbleweed where we know in the first game he never visited. Even if you ignore the retconning and look at it as a tribute, a homage to the first game, which it mostly is, it still makes zero sense that Arthur gets sniped when he crosses the border.

I remember before the game's release, we were speculating how R* would keep John out of New Austin, what kind of "in-game excuse" they would make for John being the only member not entering New Austin, and turns out, he is the only one actually able to freely roam around New Austin. Kinda Ironic.

I think that the only thing that can put some sense in this is if we consider everything post-credits non-canon.

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ThroatSlasher2

To be honest, the look of New Austin fits more 1899 than 1907 imo. So many buildings seem to have been constructed in only 4 years, it seems a bit far fetched.

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Guest

If I seen it correctly, the story plays in 1899 and the epilogues "a few years later". 8 years be more than a few. Also, when John talks to former contacts Arthur did missions for, he tells them Arthur passed a few years ago. Again, 8 be a bit too much to be a few.

37 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

I will check some of the tombstones to find a latest date as John, I can't get there as Arthur

 

Or buy the latest newspaper.

Edited by Guest

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Cutter De Blanc
5 minutes ago, McGhee said:

Or buy the latest newspaper.

The hypothesis is that the area was modelled for 1899, not 1907

 

The newspaper has no bearing in this instance

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Guest
2 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

The hypothesis is that the area was modelled for 1899, not 1907

 

The newspaper has no bearing in this instance

 

But it might have a date.

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Cutter De Blanc

The date on the newspaper is not relevant, as the two things are not related. I'm not sure if I'm explaining it properly, but I'm looking for things in the map itself to indicate the approximate date

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TheLordMarvel
11 minutes ago, ThroatSlasher2 said:

So many buildings seem to have been constructed in only 4 years, it seems a bit far fetched

 

True. But something we probably need to consider, most of the buildings are made of wood, with no internal plumbing or anything; so they could put up new buildings very quick. :)

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Guest
6 minutes ago, TheLordMarvel said:

 

True. But something we probably need to consider, most of the buildings are made of wood, with no internal plumbing or anything; so they could put up new buildings very quick. :)

 

Plumbing in new homes only started around 1930 and wasn't all that common, so that's no indication of time during the epilogues. I think it's quite hard to pinpoint a date in a fictional game.

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Cutter De Blanc

Just checked Tumbleweed's graveyard. No grave after 1898, and the grave that should be there as of 1900 "Butch Somers" is not there

 

Same situation in Oddfellow's Rest... gonna check Coot's Chapel, but I think we've been duped, fellas

 

EDIT: Same thing in Coot's Chapel. Nothing in New Austin's map indicates that it's later than 1899, in fact some things about the map indicate that it was designed for 1899. I thought it was an oversight with the first graveyard, but all three graveyards?

There's lots of other subtle things that indicate something shady going on here, like Arthur's ability to pay off his Bounty in New Austin that he's unable to acquire, but this takes the f*cking cake

Edited by Cutter De Blanc
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Guest

When it comes to playing the game after the epilogues are done, I might have well played the rest with Nathan Drake or Lara Croft. Just completing the game to 100% makes absolutely no difference on who you play at all. The story is done, the epilogue (and kind of a prologue to RDR) is done too. Completion is what keeps me busy, but I have to be honest that I don't care much about which protagonist I'm doing that with anymore. Like I said, could have been Nathan Drake or even Manny Calavera for all I care. After all the missions are done, it's just stats to me now. 

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Cutter De Blanc

Okay well that's you. Not sure what your point is? After the story is done, f*ck quality cuz all you carez about iz statz?

 

Sorry, just a little frustrating to find evidence that brings me to a baffling conclusion and then the first response is someone saying they don't care about the topic at hand now

Edited by Cutter De Blanc
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Guest
12 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

Okay well that's you

 

Well,, lets be fair, how much we love the game and it's protagonists, but what is the incentive to actually keep on playing at this stage? Exploring, completing, collecting. There isn't anything left in the game that actually is character related. Finishing the things Arthur started could be done by any character you can think of. I mentioned the idea that R* could have let us get a taste of RDO already and create a custom character to do the last bits of exploring/completing with. The story is told, nothing comes next till RDR1 storywise and RDO gamewise. We're in a gap now, which has no neccessary character to fill it up. Arthur has passed, John shouldn't have been in the area yet. No one I know wants to play Uncle, some may want to play Charles, but it will all be the same bit we play. Just explore and complete, doesn't matter with who.

 

Edited by Guest

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donnits

New Austin in 1907 doesn't make sense. It looks like it was made for 1899, but never updated. Things like Tumbleweed still being a living town and MacFarlane's Ranch not having a barn (Bonnie said it was built by Drew when she was a kid) makes sense in 1899, not in 1907. I wonder if it was their plan to let Arthur roam New Austin, but still be Wanted Dead or Alive, and then update it for 1907, just like they did for Blackwater, but they couldn't due to time constraints?

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Darealbandicoot
7 hours ago, dognuts said:

New Austin in 1907 doesn't make sense. It looks like it was made for 1899, but never updated. Things like Tumbleweed still being a living town and MacFarlane's Ranch not having a barn (Bonnie said it was built by Drew when she was a kid) makes sense in 1899, not in 1907. I wonder if it was their plan to let Arthur roam New Austin, but still be Wanted Dead or Alive, and then update it for 1907, just like they did for Blackwater, but they couldn't due to time constraints?

Still doesn't make sense why they bothered to program an invisible Sniper to keep you out of the area and have clothes for Arthur only purchasable in New Austin. 

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Cutter De Blanc

The invisible sniper would make sense to keep John out of New Austin, but it would make the endgame that much more unsatisfying. I don't know, but it feels like something really questionable happened regarding all this during production. Now it does kind of feel like they just locked the place off mainly for online. And like this design decision came after the map was already created for Arthur's story. 

 

Really wonder what that five hours of dumped content is now

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Jason

Someone explored New Austin with Arthur and found a landmark which Arthur sketched in his style and handwriting, implying that either Rockstar accounted for players exploring New Austin with Arthur despite it being difficult to get into, or Arthur originally was playable in New Austin at some point or another. We did see footage and screens of Arthur in and around Blackwater but that could've been cooked up just for the trailer.

 

The search for cut content is gonna be an interesting watch, it seems like some big stuff was cut or changed during development.

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DEADWOODZ

I'm guessing those shots with Arthur in Blackwater & The Great Plains was to show off the world, famous places and all that...without giving to much away. But i would of loved to had travelled to NA w/ Arthur!

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Gallows

I was under the impression that it’s 1902 or something like that. 

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Fatsanchez
20 hours ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

Just checked Tumbleweed's graveyard. No grave after 1898, and the grave that should be there as of 1900 "Butch Somers" is not there

 

Same situation in Oddfellow's Rest... gonna check Coot's Chapel, but I think we've been duped, fellas

 

EDIT: Same thing in Coot's Chapel. Nothing in New Austin's map indicates that it's later than 1899, in fact some things about the map indicate that it was designed for 1899. I thought it was an oversight with the first graveyard, but all three graveyards?

There's lots of other subtle things that indicate something shady going on here, like Arthur's ability to pay off his Bounty in New Austin that he's unable to acquire, but this takes the f*cking cake

Very interesting findings. I personally believe this is related to time constraints as @dognuts mentioned, and also (and more importantly) to the period in which Online will take place. I strongly believe now that the Online storyline will be set on 1899.

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Jason

The epilogue map (1907) has houses to buy in the RDR2 part of the map, straight up brand spanking new houses with full interiors, which obviously screams RDO.

 

I think at some point in development Arthur was in New Austin but they cut it, probably cause like all cut content it wasn't working for them. There's not many ways to have Arthur go west before the end of chapter 6 that would make sense. It's on lockdown, going west means getting through all that and unless you finish the story there it would mean having to go back east through the locked down Blackwater and all the people who followed them back west. That's just one of many reasons it could've been cut, anyway.

 

Who knows we may see some non-canon DLC where he goes to NA or something and this is just the groundwork for it.

Edited by Jason

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HockeyMike24
1 hour ago, Jason said:

The epilogue map (1907) has houses to buy in the RDR2 part of the map, straight up brand spanking new houses with full interiors, which obviously screams RDO.

I must have missed that, where are these houses located?

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Jason
41 minutes ago, HockeyMike24 said:

I must have missed that, where are these houses located?

I don't think anyone has mapped them, there's one somewhere around Emerald Ranch and one near Rhodes I hear. Probably more about, but I dunno.

 

They weren't there in the main story and they have a for sale sign outside them and like I said, they have full interiors but no furniture. RDO is rumoured to have purchasable houses so it makes sense.

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Arthur Bell
On 11/9/2018 at 3:26 PM, Jason said:

cus retcons

 

I betcha if they do an RDR1 DLC like rumoured they'll make some changes to fix the plotholes between the games.

They're gonna do a dlc where John comes out of the grave in 1914 after remember his conversation with Bonnie. You have to walk as a sick Marston without a horse all the way there without being spotted.

 

He gets there, tells her "oh sh*t I forgot to tell you I stopped through here in 1907. Haha memory does funny stuff to this old man." He coughs and falls over dead. Roll real credits.

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Mach1bud
1 minute ago, Nick Testbranch said:

They're gonna do a dlc where John comes out of the grave in 1914 after remember his conversation with Bonnie. You have to walk as a sick Marston without a horse all the way there without being spotted.

 

He gets there, tells her "oh sh*t I forgot to tell you I stopped through here in 1907. Haha memory does funny stuff to this old man." He coughs and falls over dead. Roll real credits.

Rockstar already made John come back from the dead once, so its actually not that far fetched.

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Oldsport
15 minutes ago, Nick Testbranch said:

They're gonna do a dlc where John comes out of the grave in 1914 after remember his conversation with Bonnie. You have to walk as a sick Marston without a horse all the way there without being spotted.

 

He gets there, tells her "oh sh*t I forgot to tell you I stopped through here in 1907. Haha memory does funny stuff to this old man." He coughs and falls over dead. Roll real credits.

lmaoooo

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Guest
2 hours ago, Jason said:

I don't think anyone has mapped them, there's one somewhere around Emerald Ranch and one near Rhodes I hear. Probably more about, but I dunno.

 

They weren't there in the main story and they have a for sale sign outside them and like I said, they have full interiors but no furniture. RDO is rumoured to have purchasable houses so it makes sense.

 

I found one of those. It has a 'For Sale' sign up front and you can go inside, but this one had no interior. Brand spanking new timber, looked machine cut. It was near Rhodes and Bolger Glade. 

 

eLLCs8R.jpg

Edited by Guest

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jje1000
8 hours ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

The invisible sniper would make sense to keep John out of New Austin, but it would make the endgame that much more unsatisfying. I don't know, but it feels like something really questionable happened regarding all this during production. Now it does kind of feel like they just locked the place off mainly for online. And like this design decision came after the map was already created for Arthur's story. 

 

Really wonder what that five hours of dumped content is now

I definitely think that New Austin came later in development- and that they were likely unable to finish the map and/or reconcile it with the notion of the gang being pushed further and further east away from their goals.

 

And you're also right- I am always curious to know what sort of content gets cut and if it ever will reappear elsewhere, or if there's enough remaining for modders to resurrect some features. It really does seem like RDR2 was running against the wire during the development period, and they had to make a choice of cutting pieces out that couldn't be polished enough in time (i.e. gang companions).

 

Edited by jje1000

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