Tommy not caring

[DK06282000]

You know, a lot of people really like Vic, CJ and, Niko because they show that they care for others' safety (Don't worry, I like all three of them too). And that's pretty much the complaint many people who prefer the aforementioned protagonists have against Tommy. They always complain about him "not caring about anyone" or "only thinking about himself". Well let me ask you this: When you've had over a full decade of your life wasted in the big house because of your former boss setting you up years ago and are now stuck in a city full of morons and assholes, who exactly would you care about? Obviously, there isn't very many characters in the game Tommy should show any care for. I'm pretty sure the other three protagonists didn't spend over a decade in prison like Tommy did and actually have family. Who exactly should Tommy really care about? I mean isn't about 2-3 people around him all he should really stick to? I don't understand how Tommy not caring for very many people the way CJ, Vic, and Niko did makes him a bad character ("bad" as in unlikable). Besides, he's at least loyal to the people he trusts (such as Lance; he never treated Lance like sh*t since they first met.)

[Lancerator]

Different characters, different experiences. Altough Tommy could of being a total dick to the people he met and worked with in Vice but he didn't. He just had a strong temp that made him cause a debacle between his associates during the final mission of the game, that's where Sonny tells him "didn't I tell you your temp will get you into trouble, uh"

Tommy made something big with his own hands, he was just being realisitic by giving himself a bigger cut than Lance or Ken.

[Grotti Vigilante]

Tommy Vercetti isn't necessarily an uncaring character. He's close with Ernest Kelly for example to the point of being outraged when he was shot by Forelli's men, and he was also on pretty decent terms with Lance before he got stabbed in the back by him. Realistically though, how can you expect Tommy to care about people when his goal is to build a criminal empire and rule Vice City? I don't mean to sound depressing, but you don't get as big as Tommy did by being a nice, caring individual, most especially in the criminal underworld of Vice City. Imagine him going to the North Point Mall politely asking the store owners to pay protection but understanding why they wouldn't want to? That wouldn't work at all, he'd just be told to get lost. No, he had to make a point violently to show them whose the boss now. But the point is that Tommy isn't an uncaring character, he's just very particular about them.

[muvdafucupouttahere]

Honestly, I don't know why fans are bitching about Tommy not caring about anyone like CJ, Vic and Niko. Do you folks know why they all cared for others? THEY HAD FAMILIES! So of course they're gonna show signs of caring. Tommy doesn't have anybody around him worth caring for. This is the same guy who got nearly two decades of his life wasted thanks to the guy who was "family" to him. You think Tommy should give a damn about Sonny at this point? Also, Rosenberg is just a f*cking mess who does nothing but complain and snorts cocaine. So it's a point that Tommy left his ass six years later. Pretty much the only people he actually cares about are Lance (before he found out he betrayed him), Colonel Cortez, and Old Man Kelly. It pretty much shows that Tommy actually has motivation for his actions and only kills people who actually deserve it (unless you count the contract kills, but those are optional). He's got plenty of redeeming qualities to balance out his psychopathic attributes, such as his intelligence, loyalty towards the people who he gives a damn about, wisdom, awareness, and his standards (during the ice cream parlor cutscene with the ice cream lady, he actually shows a soft spot for children). Oh yeah, and he's actually smart enough to avoid taking drugs. In other words, he never got high on his own supply (and people say Tommy's a copy-paste of Tony Montana).

[watersgta3]

Tommy does show some signs of caring, such as rescuing Lance from the junkyard, helping Colonel Cortez defend his ship from the army, and was even pissed when the old man at the Print Works got injured thanks to Sonny's men. But yeah, Tommy isn't the guy who should be the "caring" type. He just isn't emotionless like so many people who prefer CJ or Niko always claim.

[Algonquin Assassin]

Tommy cares about as much as someone I'd expect who's in the "life". He really doesn't have any close friends or family to look after, but he isn't an inhumane piece of sh*t either. He puts business first and foremost.

[Sinner!]

 

 

Tommy is a generic cliched boring goon with the depth of a shallow puddle...he's basically the character embodiment of Vice City's crap & banal story.

[Evil empire]

In the scenario Tommy shows a bit of care for Lance Vance and Ernest Kelly although it's always interested since he needs Lance to eliminate Diaz and Ernest to make money with the printworks. Tommy can care about the others as long as it represents an investment.

[El Penguin Bobo]

Yeah, this has been discussed many times throughout the forums...

 

I honestly don't see how Tommy is selfish and not caring for anyone else. People who say that either hasn't played the game at all or just haven't been paying attention to the story. I can list all the times who showed signs of caring, he helped out Colonel Cortez with the French, he was nice to Lance, (before he backstabbed him oh and don't tell me yelled at lance during that mission, he yelled at him because he wasn't doing anything, just sitting around getting drunk), he helped out Old Man Kelly, he even saved Lance from the junkyard, because he did some dumb sh*t with Diaz. 

 

Like what everyone else is saying, who exactly should he care about anyway? He has no family, nor even friends, and he wasted 15 years in prison because he got set up by his so-called "boss". I have to admit though, there were some scenes where he was being a dick, like all of those encounters with Kent Paul, he holds him down, or shoves him, when he doesn't get the info he wants, and that's about it.

[Copcaller]

Death row showed he cared quite a bit for Lance to rescue him or pragmatically speaking he didn't want Lance to reveal his true intentions under torture.

[Lioshenka]

This is sort of the reason I don't like Tommy. he certainly shows strong narcissistc traits: belittles everyone or makes fun of them, loses tempter in a blink of an eye and as you said never cares about the others - except when it directly benefits him.

 

He's quite a prick, actually. He might be fictional, but I still hate him for that.

 

If it wasn't for his personality disorder he would treat the others differently - obviously, he wouldn't protect everyone like CJ protects his family, but he at least wouldn't be a such dick to the others. Criminals too can be polite and courteous. I bet he got beaten in the prison a lot for being a smart ass.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Lioshenka

[Algonquin Assassin]

9 hours ago, Lioshenka said:

This is sort of the reason I don't like Tommy. he certainly shows strong narcissistc traits: belittles everyone or makes fun of them, loses tempter in a blink of an eye and as you said never cares about the others - except when it directly benefits him.

 

He's quite a prick, actually. He might be fictional, but I still hate him for that.

 

If it wasn't for his personality disorder he would treat the others differently - obviously, he wouldn't protect everyone like CJ protects his family, but he at least wouldn't be a such dick to the others. Criminals too can be polite and courteous. I bet he got beaten in the prison a lot for being a smart ass.

If he got beat up in prison I doubt he'd have the confidence and self esteem like he does in the game. He's not called "The Harwood Butcher" for nothing.

 

And yeah he can be a bit of a prick, but ulitmately it's what makes his character work. He takes a lot of inspiration from Tony Montana and Henry Hill who were both kinda dicks in their respective mediums, but it's what R* wanted from their first voiced protagonist and first GTA with a criminal empire element. Like I said above Tommy puts business first and foremost so it makes little sense why he should care for anyone really.

 

Even when he encounters Kent Paul for the first time. I thought it was hilarious when he shoved him on his arse to assert himself as someone not to be messed with. I mean the guy spent 15 years in prison because he got double crossed by what he used to consider "family". It's no wonder when he gets out he has a short fuse and only trusts people in his strict inner circle.

 

 

[TheSantader25]

I think it's good that not all the protagonist are the same. Tommy is definitely a prick who only cares about himself but I love him for that. He is one of the few protagonists in the series that gets the job done for "himself" instead of being an errand boy. He is more "in-charge" in comparison to most of the protagonists. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by TheSantader25

[Grotti Vigilante]

Tommy might be a prick, but that's pretty much what a lot of GTA protagonists are. Besides, he's surrounded by them like he says, so he's naturally going to have to be one himself. He might be a smartarse but I bet he wasn't messed with in prison. A man convicted for eleven murders all at the same time. Eleven people all at once. He came in with the nickname "The Harwood Butcher". To be honest, I'm more willing to bet he was feared and respected in prison and someone everyone made room for in the shower. If he dropped the soap, he wouldn't need to watch his back when he picks it up.

 

[Lioshenka]

On 2/2/2019 at 3:38 AM, American Venom said:

If he got beat up in prison I doubt he'd have the confidence and self esteem like he does in the game. He's not called "The Harwood Butcher" for nothing.

Yeah, but he's only tough and condescending towards characters that he's certain aren't going to fight back. He's continuously mean to Ken, his aggression towards Kent Paul in uncalled for, his "Nice bike" remark shows that he only cares about his own feelings. Not needs, feelings.

 

I'd like him to kick open the doors every time he goes to see Diaz and make fun of his short stature - but he won't, because Diaz will have him decapitated in his backyard.

 

Tommy only picks on those weaker than him, and then he steps over them as if nothing has happened.

 

To me, as a character, Tommy is completely unlikable.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Lioshenka

[Grotti Vigilante]

2 hours ago, Lioshenka said:

I'd like him to kick open the doors every time he goes to see Diaz and make fun of his short stature - but he won't, because Diaz will have him decapitated in his backyard.

If your plan was to get someone to trust you so you can get close to them and then kill them for busting your drug deal and nearly killing you in the process, why would you go through the unnecessary trouble of antagonising someone like that? Tommy is not the least bit intimidated by Diaz at any point in time, and since he killed eleven people in one gunfight he's not going to be scared of someone trying to decapitate him. But he's also not stupid. He was cunning in his plans which were only blown by Lance being an idiot, and then he's quick to decide that it's time to raid his whole mansion. 

 

Quote

To me, as a character, Tommy is completely unlikable.

That's fine. That's all that's really needed for you to say. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Grotti Vigilante

[watersgta3]

2 hours ago, Lioshenka said:

Yeah, but he's only tough and condescending towards characters that he's certain aren't going to fight back. He's continuously mean to Ken, his aggression towards Kent Paul in uncalled for, his "Nice bike" remark shows that he only cares about his own feelings. Not needs, feelings.

 

I'd like him to kick open the doors every time he goes to see Diaz and make fun of his short stature - but he won't, because Diaz will have him decapitated in his backyard.

 

Tommy only picks on those weaker than him, and then he steps over them as if nothing has happened.

 

To me, as a character, Tommy is completely unlikable.

While Tommy was certainly a bit of a dick towards Kent Paul, that really was the only character he was truly a prick to. His attitude towards Ken Rosenberg is highly understandable since Ken constantly annoys Tommy with his incessant whining and his stupidity. I'm very sure you would be the same way towards someone else as Ken. Also, if you're really using Tommy's ped quotes to assess Tommy's feelings, then by your logic, CJ's quote "Remember, heroes get killed" shows that he isn't the caring, nonviolent person he behaves as.

 

Dude, Tommy had Diaz's murder planned out in a fastidious manner, and just making fun of him right to his face would just ruin it. Tommy isn't an idiot. He killed eleven people fifteen years prior to the story, so Diaz wouldn't be intimidating towards him in the slightest.

 

You can say whatever you want about Tommy, but I'm pretty sure if you were in prison for something your former boss did to you and you had to deal with incompetent idiots who constantly annoy you and are completely useless, you would feel the same way.

 

Overall, Tommy was very charismatic, intelligent, cunning, and both physically and mentally one of the strongest protagonists of the series, and in spite of his psychopathic tendencies, he still had enough redeeming qualities to be one of the most memorable characters of GTA.

[Algonquin Assassin]

11 hours ago, Lioshenka said:

I'd like him to kick open the doors every time he goes to see Diaz and make fun of his short stature - but he won't, because Diaz will have him decapitated in his backyard..

I have to agree with the other guys. If he was just there to antagonise Diaz everytime he saw him his plans would've went up in smoke and in the end he still kills him so it's not like Tommy was ever scared/intimidated by him anyway. He just waited until the right time to dispose him.

 

Diaz ended up in a 6 foot grave (or tied to cement blocks at the bottom of the ocean) and Tommy took over his estate and all of his businesses. Who came out of it better?

 

 

[Jimmy]

TBH, I always thought of Tommy as more of a humane protagonist as one can get. He had no one and his own family betrayed him. He had one goal in Vice City; to get back the money he had lost. He always put business first before anything else. Over the time he started showing signs of care for some of the characters. This was evident when he went to save Lance and later becomes like a brother figure to Ken Rosenberg.

 

Is Tommy a prick? Yes. He puts on the persona for the sake of business itself. He's a skeptical and one should be after they are betrayed by their "family" for 15 years. Being a prick makes his character work. Helps him extract information from people. He's unlike Toni Cipriani who beats up people or scares them into revealing stuff. And Paul's not the most character in-game. Although Tommy is a complete dick to him at first, but starts being nicer when he realises that Paul can be trusted somewhat. And it's difficult for literally anyone (I mean it) to put up with Ken's behavior.

[Lioshenka]

20 hours ago, watersgta3 said:

Also, if you're really using Tommy's ped quotes to assess Tommy's feelings, then by your logic, CJ's quote "Remember, heroes get killed" shows that he isn't the caring, nonviolent person he behaves as.

I know, I was bearing that in mind - but it wasn't turrned into a whole cutscene, and unlike Tommy the other characters have a nice side to their personal. Even Trevor for a psychopath that he is often acts in a caring way towards the others.

 

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Overall, Tommy was very charismatic, intelligent, cunning, and both physically and mentally one of the strongest protagonists of the series,

Yeah, no, no way I can agree with this :p

 

Quote

You can say whatever you want about Tommy, but I'm pretty sure if you were in prison for something your former boss did to you and you had to deal with incompetent idiots who constantly annoy you and are completely useless, you would feel the same way.

My old boss put me in prison, I'm going to take my anger out on other people who have nothing to do with it. Tommy's logic.

Quote

Diaz ended up in a 6 foot grave (or tied to cement blocks at the bottom of the ocean) and Tommy took over his estate and all of his businesses. Who came out of it better?

Oh no, there's no doubt about it. Sick narcissists are always the ones who get to the top (just look at any politician), because they are gods in own eyes, and therefore entitled to everything. The society sees them as confident, energetic and successfull, because this is the image they want the public to see, but in reality they are just sick mentally deranged beasts that make lives of everyone around them unbearable.

[TheSantader25]

I don't think Tommy saved Lance because he cared about him. He was afraid he would give out info. As soon as he reaches that place the first thing he says is "you f*cked up my plan". If he really cared about Lance he would have talk to him in person and out of care instead of phone calls when Lance was feeling 'unimportant' in his operation to solve the problems.

 

The VCS Lance was an intolerable useless guy but I genuinely felt the VC Lance was a pretty decent dude. He shows nothing but anger towards Ken either although Ken seems to be really dependent on him. The result of this abandonment by Tommy is seen later when Ken becomes a junkie. 

 

I like Tommy and he is one of my favorite protagonists because he gets sh*t done but I don't think he actually gave any f*cks about any character in VC. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by TheSantader25

[watersgta3]

15 hours ago, Lioshenka said:

I know, I was bearing that in mind - but it wasn't turrned into a whole cutscene, and unlike Tommy the other characters have a nice side to their personal. Even Trevor for a psychopath that he is often acts in a caring way towards the others.

Yep, Tommy has no nice side. That must be why he showed a softer side towards Earnest Kelly and saw him as a father figure. Yep, nothing nice about that.

Quote

 

Yeah, no, no way I can agree with this

Well the charismatic part is subjective, but it's a fact that Tommy was definitely strong and intelligent, even if he was a bit naive at times.

Quote

My old boss put me in prison, I'm going to take my anger out on other people who have nothing to do with it. Tommy's logic.

You missed the point. I never insinuated that Tommy took his anger out on others who had nothing to do with his stint in prison. I was saying that most of the characters he met in Vice were intolerant morons who Tommy had very little patience with, and that's also what angered him. He wasn't like that towards the folks who weren't annoying or useless.

Quote

Oh no, there's no doubt about it. Sick narcissists are always the ones who get to the top (just look at any politician), because they are gods in own eyes, and therefore entitled to everything. The society sees them as confident, energetic and successfull, because this is the image they want the public to see, but in reality they are just sick mentally deranged beasts that make lives of everyone around them unbearable.

And Tommy's narcissistic how? Also, no one has even insinuated he was a God in the slightest, nor has anyone worshipped him.

Edited February 6, 2019 by watersgta3

[DK06282000]

6 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

I don't think Tommy saved Lance because he cared about him. He was afraid he would give out info. As soon as he reaches that place the first thing he says is "you f*cked up my plan". If he really cared about Lance he would have talk to him in person and out of care instead of phone calls when Lance was feeling 'unimportant' in his operation to solve the problems.

 

The VCS Lance was an intolerable useless guy but I genuinely felt the VC Lance was a pretty decent dude. He shows nothing but anger towards Ken either although Ken seems to be really dependent on him. The result of this abandonment by Tommy is seen later when Ken becomes a junkie. 

 

I like Tommy and he is one of my favorite protagonists because he gets sh*t done but I don't think he actually gave any f*cks about any character in VC. 

Well to be fair, Lance was kind of an idiot for jumping the gun instead of waiting for the right moment to bite. I doubt Tommy would dismiss Lance the second he took over Diaz's mansion. He was just frustrated with Lance screwing up like he always do. What'd you expect him to do, give Lance a kiss on his wounds like he was his father?

 

Also, from the way Ken acts in the cutscenes, it's quite understandable why Tommy would be angered with Ken.

 

Overall, there's nothing wrong with Tommy not caring for anyone else, because there isn't anyone around him worth caring for. The only person he seems to genuine care for in the end is the old man at the Print Works since he reminded him of his father.

[Algonquin Assassin]

14 hours ago, Lioshenka said:

Oh no, there's no doubt about it. Sick narcissists are always the ones who get to the top (just look at any politician), because they are gods in own eyes, and therefore entitled to everything. The society sees them as confident, energetic and successfull, because this is the image they want the public to see, but in reality they are just sick mentally deranged beasts that make lives of everyone around them unbearable.

Eh.

 

Each to their own if you don't like him, but you're kinda blowing things a bit out of proportion to make it seem like he's worse than he really is. I wouldn't even call Tommy a narcissist. Narcissists are self gloating, but Tommy doesn't come across like that. It's not like he has a giant statue of himself in his garden for everyone to see. 

[The Coconut Kid]

I can see the reason behind both arguments. I don't think Tommy is uncaring towards those around him (Lance, Ken), but he obviously places his priorities (the money & drugs, establishing his gang) above all else. He's a prick towards those who are beneath him in the food chain and act above their station (Kent Paul, Steve Scott) and either physically or mentally reduces them into knowing their place. He's obviously competent socially because he forms alliances with two of Vice City's major gangs (Cubans, Bikers) and integrates himself with a cultural attache (Cortez) and powerful businessman (Avery). I don't think that he possesses any major personality disorders outside of the usual GTA sociopathy befitting his situation, but I can see why he would be deemed narcissistic or at least someone with an ego. The main problem with Tommy is that his character is inconsistent, there are some huge gaps in the story and there's not really anyone in the characters (other than Sonny) capable of challenging him. If Vice City had Tony Montana's and Griselda Blanco's on every corner than Tommy may well have had a different set of personality traits and a different approach to the story altogether.

[Lioshenka]

On 2/5/2019 at 4:00 PM, watersgta3 said:

That must be why he showed a softer side towards Earnest Kelly and saw him as a father figure.

It's interesting that we see it so differently - I see Tommy treating Earnest no different from any other asset/person that is beneficial to him, neutral at most.

 

On 2/5/2019 at 4:00 PM, watersgta3 said:

but it's a fact that Tommy was definitely strong and intelligent,

Yep, can't argue with that.

 

20 hours ago, American Venom said:

Eh.

 

Each to their own if you don't like him, but you're kinda blowing things a bit out of proportion to make it seem like he's worse than he really is. I wouldn't even call Tommy a narcissist. Narcissists are self gloating, but Tommy doesn't come across like that. It's not like he has a giant statue of himself in his garden for everyone to see. 

Not really. Narcissists don't necessarily require a physical statue - why would one need a statue when they are perfect anyway? They can instead torment the others into accepting that they are inferior/weaker. I can accept a fact that Tommy may in fact be a normal person with a range of feelings and emotions, but his positive/caring side is not represented well in the game (if at all), it's very skewed towards the negative side, which is why I agree with the assumption mentioned by the OP about "Tommy not caring". There could be all kinds of explanations behind his actions as many have already said (prison, dealing with idiots etc), but to get back to the original question - this is not the kind of personality I find likable. For the same reason I don't really like Sweet from SA, but he's just upset most of the time and generally acts in a justified manner.

 

Maybe it's the way the games were made back then - Claude didn't really have a personality at all, but then R* gave Tommy a voice and probably found themselves in a difficult position when you suddenly have a whole other bunch of character development/personality things to worry about. CJ and Niko appear to be much more human/realistic in the way they act, so maybe R* have realised that this is the way to do it.

 

The Coconut Kid above me summed it up quite nicely.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Lioshenka

[muvdafucupouttahere]

1 hour ago, Lioshenka said:

It's interesting that we see it so differently - I see Tommy treating Earnest no different from any other asset/person that is beneficial to him, neutral at most.

 

Not really. Narcissists don't necessarily require a physical statue - why would one need a statue when they are perfect anyway? They can instead torment the others into accepting that they are inferior/weaker. I can accept a fact that Tommy may in fact be a normal person with a range of feelings and emotions, but his positive/caring side is not represented well in the game (if at all), it's very skewed towards the negative side, which is why I agree with the assumption mentioned by the OP about "Tommy not caring". There could be all kinds of explanations behind his actions as many have already said (prison, dealing with idiots etc), but to get back to the original question - this is not the kind of personality I find likable. For the same reason I don't really like Sweet from SA, but he's just upset most of the time and generally acts in a justified manner.

Considering Tommy had once had dreams of working at the print works and the old man reminded him of his father, I don't see at all how he doesn't show the slightest bit of caring for the old man. Not to mention links such as the ones down below corroborate this fact.

 

https://www.grandtheftwiki.com/Earnest_Kelly 

https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Earnest_Kelly

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but by your logic, CJ would be a narcissist by robbing others and bragging about how much of a gangster he is. A true narcissist loves themselves so much and thinks that they're perfect in every way that the whole world should revolve around them. Tommy never said he was perfect, nor did he insinuate it. He knows he has flaws and even said to Lance that if he screws up, he can call him out anytime. Tommy had a bit of an ego, sure, but he wasn't narcissistic. Narcissism is far more of a personality disorder.  You want to look at the true narcissists, look at characters such as Big Smoke (he literally has a statue of himself and brags about how much of a success he is while being f*cked-up on that crack). Also, does Tommy really need to be a caring character to be good? How "caring" are you expecting Tommy to be? You want him to walk into Mitch Baker's club and politely ask "Um, excuse me, but I need the money and want to use your club to make an asset"? This is Grand Theft Auto, not your favorite fantasy movie. Look, you can go ahead and dislike Tommy all you want. No one's changing your opinion. But you're kind of nitpicking at this point.

Edited February 7, 2019 by muvdafucupouttahere

[Lioshenka]

15 hours ago, muvdafucupouttahere said:

I'm sorry, but by your logic, CJ would be a narcissist by robbing others and bragging about how much of a gangster he is.

No, and I explained in my previous point why. Both CJ and Niko has sudden outbursts of rage (just remember CJ burying that foreman under the concrete or the way Niko treated Michelle having learnt about her true identity). But while their behaviors was far from exemplar at these particular moments, there were plenty of other moment where they acted with compassion and kindness towards the others, and that balanced it out.

 

15 hours ago, muvdafucupouttahere said:

Considering Tommy had once had dreams of working at the print works and the old man reminded him of his father, I don't see at all how he doesn't show the slightest bit of caring for the old man. Not to mention links such as the ones down below corroborate this fact.

Honestly, when you mentioned him yesterday I went on Youtube and watch all of the cutscenes for the print works missions. The GTA Wiki may claim a lot of things, but at no time in the game Tommy treats the old man any different from how he treats the other workers at that factory for example.

 

15 hours ago, muvdafucupouttahere said:

But you're kind of nitpicking at this point. 

The OP has a question, and I answered that question. If I had a lot of money I too would have a statue of myself - I mean, if I have a huge ass house and a lot of mates around why not have a statue just for fun? And I don't remember Smoke acting even close to how arrogant Tommy was. Surely, he brags a lot and is full of himself, but it doesn't really go any further than words.

 

Tommy doesn't have to be caring to be good. In fact, most of people in Vice City probably regard him as such, however it is the closest to him that are the real victims of that abuse that see the true side of him. And I don't expect him to be caring and nurturing to every human being in the game, just... be normal for god's sake.

 

[muvdafucupouttahere]

8 minutes ago, Lioshenka said:

No, and I explained in my previous point why. Both CJ and Niko has sudden outbursts of rage (just remember CJ burying that foreman under the concrete or the way Niko treated Michelle having learnt about her true identity). But while their behaviors was far from exemplar at these particular moments, there were plenty of other moment where they acted with compassion and kindness towards the others, and that balanced it out.

Duh! I already knew that! I was just speaking by your logic, because you don't seem to understand how a true narcissist acts. A true narcissist is delusional and acts as if they could do no wrong. Tommy, while having sort of an ego, was never delusional, nor has he ever claimed he was perfect in every way and felt everyone should worship him. Does he have an ego? Yes. Just like all GTA protagonists do. But he wasn't a narcissist.

8 minutes ago, Lioshenka said:

Honestly, when you mentioned him yesterday I went on Youtube and watch all of the cutscenes for the print works missions. The GTA Wiki may claim a lot of things, but at no time in the game Tommy treats the old man any different from how he treats the other workers at that factory for example.

Dude, he had a discussion about his father to the old man and showed a blatant sign of anger when the old man got injured by Sonny's goons. Not to mention his friendly phone call with him after completing the story. If that doesn't show he sees the old man as a father figure and not some lackey to get property out of, then I don't know what else you think he should do to show that he has a good relationship with him compared to everyone else.

8 minutes ago, Lioshenka said:

The OP has a question, and I answered that question. If I had a lot of money I too would have a statue of myself - I mean, if I have a huge ass house and a lot of mates around why not have a statue just for fun? And I don't remember Smoke acting even close to how arrogant Tommy was. Surely, he brags a lot and is full of himself, but it doesn't really go any further than words.

Oh yeah?! Remember these quotes here?

 

"I MADE IT CJ! I'M A SUCCESS! I CAN'T BE TOUCH!"

 

If that doesn't scream "narcissism", then I don't know what does. Also, unlike Smoke, Tommy never betrayed anyone he was an ally to, nor was he ever high on his own supply. Besides, all GTA protagonists (and most of the characters) are arrogant in some way. "Arrogance" and "narcissism", while fairly synonymous, are still different, just like how "tidiness" and "OCC" are different.

8 minutes ago, Lioshenka said:

Tommy doesn't have to be caring to be good. In fact, most of people in Vice City probably regard him as such, however it is the closest to him that are the real victims of that abuse that see the true side of him. And I don't expect him to be caring and nurturing to every human being in the game, just... be normal for god's sake.

 

What is your definition of "normal" tho? How "normal" are you expecting him to be?

[Lioshenka]

19 hours ago, muvdafucupouttahere said:

A true narcissist is delusional and acts as if they could do no wrong.

I've been living with a narcissist for 31 years, I think I know how they think by now NPD is a spectrum, so at an extreme they would be delusional, but most of them that are somewhere around the middle are just dicks to those close to them, but most of what they do on a large scale is fairly reasonable. Odd at times, but not out of the ordinary.

 

19 hours ago, muvdafucupouttahere said:

blatant sign of anger when the old man got injured by Sonny's goons.

I remember that moment, that's how he would have reacted if someone scratched his car or put a television in a wrong corner. His only concern was that his counterfeit money production line could be affected if the guy couldn't work. It's not like he took him to a hospital himself or even offered them a vehicle or visited him in the hospital or picked him up from it.

 

19 hours ago, muvdafucupouttahere said:

If that doesn't scream "narcissism", then I don't know what does.

It certainly doesn't to me if you look at his behavior throughout the game. If you just cut out that particular scene, then yes, sure.

 

19 hours ago, muvdafucupouttahere said:

What is your definition of "normal" tho? How "normal" are you expecting him to be? 

Stop being a prick to everyone. Be nice once in a while. Be like any other GTA character.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Lioshenka