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NoEasyDay

Can you do ANYTHING without getting a bounty?

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Gallows
29 minutes ago, anthony said:

The thing is e.g. if you kill a sheriff in his office with a mask on you will be instantly identified as Arthur Morgan.

 

I think the train robbery issue with the guards come from that, I wonder if they are in the same PEDS group than the law enforcement.

 

I asked the support, they basically said they didn't have any information to communicate about that.

In any case I think it should be fixed ASAP.

Yep, train robberies are not consistent with how the rest of the game works. I am just fine with law enforcement identifying you if you kill one, because otherwise it can be exploited. The train guards however should not be law enforcement, but something else. Also law enforcement should ride from the nearest town (in reality spawn in a way that makes sense in relation to how far you are from the nearest town).

Edited by Gallows

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0223998743
On 11/2/2018 at 7:03 PM, paddymcg said:

breach of the peace = not a crime

self defence = not a crime

bandanna = no loss of honor/ no identification

I don't agree, these rules are too binary, too much black and white.

 

Bandana should prevent an identification from the law until a certain degree.

e.g. shootout with lawmen, if you stay near them and in their range too long, there should be a chance they identify you because a bandana is just a bandana, it does not hide your face conpletely.

Masks should tho.

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BerntBalchen

You need to change your clothes too. The bandana is for a short time, and will loose effect fast. And if you go away and drink alot of hair potion. Come back with long hair and beard, and different outfit. You're good. :)

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Gallows
57 minutes ago, BerntBalchen said:

You need to change your clothes too. The bandana is for a short time, and will loose effect fast. And if you go away and drink alot of hair potion. Come back with long hair and beard, and different outfit. You're good. :)

I also have five different Masks I think. Buy them from the fence ;)

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The Algerian
On 11/1/2018 at 6:13 PM, anthony said:

That's not what I experienced, with a bandana and a mask I did not get indentified by civilians.

 

Literally shot the bartender in Valentine's saloon while wearing a bandana, got out using the back door and took off my bandana, crime reported and unknown suspect.

I roamed around on purpose to see the lawmem behavior, one of them finally saw me and asked a few question, I answered nicely and I was able to walk away. 

If you do have a bounty tho, he will mostly recognized you during the conversation and will try to arrest you.

 

I just recorded a clip while I was in Rhodes..

 

 

There is also that from the digital guide:

 

638da42.jpg


9eZ1gVZ.jpg

 

Nope, either it's not working as intended, or the guide is  pure BS.

And it's much worse than I thought, too.

 

I went to rob an illegal poker game, did everything right, not a single gunshot, and everyone involved tied up and hidden away. Still wanted level and identified before I was even done taking all the money.

And I had the mask on.

Edited by The Algerian

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MadHammerThorsteen
6 hours ago, The Algerian said:

Nope, either it's not working as intended, or the guide is  pure BS.

And it's much worse than I thought, too.

 

I went to rob an illegal poker game, did everything right, not a single gunshot, and everyone involved tied up and hidden away. Still wanted level and identified before I was even done taking all the money.

And I had the mask on.

Even full-face masks, while better at disguising your identity, are not perfect protection against being identified. If you so much as use the same cowboy hat in repeated crimes, witnesses will begin to take note. Make sure you're changing all your clothes regularly, and switching out gun sets.

Edited by MatthewIRL

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The Algerian
22 minutes ago, MatthewIRL said:

Even full-face masks, while better at disguising your identity, are not perfect protection against being identified. If you so much as use the same cowboy hat in repeated crimes, witnesses will begin to take note. Make sure you're changing all your clothes regularly, and switching out gun sets.

What witnesses? You can kill everyone silently, and still have the sheriffs investigating.

Try robbing the backroom of the Doctor's shop in Valentine and not get a bounty at all, you'll see.

I killed everyone with throwing knives, the doc, the O'driscolls, nobody had any time to fire a weapon or scream for help, still the lawmen were alerted before I even finished searching the room.

 

I dare anyone to rob that backroom and not get a bounty, you can try whatever you want.

And the best is, you can't even restrain the doc, you're forced to kill him if you don't want him to run and snitch in the middle of your robbery, no tying him up, and no knocking him out.

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Gallows
11 minutes ago, The Algerian said:

What witnesses? You can kill everyone silently, and still have the sheriffs investigating.

Try robbing the backroom of the Doctor's shop in Valentine and not get a bounty at all, you'll see.

I killed everyone with throwing knives, the doc, the O'driscolls, nobody had any time to fire a weapon or scream for help, still the lawmen were alerted before I even finished searching the room.

 

I dare anyone to rob that backroom and not get a bounty, you can try whatever you want.

And the best is, you can't even restrain the doc, you're forced to kill him if you don't want him to run and snitch in the middle of your robbery, no tying him up, and no knocking him out.

I’ll try, but I just did it and escaped. It’s a somewhat scripted mission, so becomming wanted may be part of it. Hard to know, but it’s not how it happens in free roaming crime in my experience.

Edited by Gallows

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MadHammerThorsteen
3 hours ago, The Algerian said:

What witnesses? You can kill everyone silently, and still have the sheriffs investigating.

Try robbing the backroom of the Doctor's shop in Valentine and not get a bounty at all, you'll see.

I killed everyone with throwing knives, the doc, the O'driscolls, nobody had any time to fire a weapon or scream for help, still the lawmen were alerted before I even finished searching the room.

 

I dare anyone to rob that backroom and not get a bounty, you can try whatever you want.

And the best is, you can't even restrain the doc, you're forced to kill him if you don't want him to run and snitch in the middle of your robbery, no tying him up, and no knocking him out.

This is your one hang up? Get in, get out, escape the law. It's one scenario designed to draw attention to you early on in Chapter 2. The game's been out for a week. Move on from it.

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The Algerian
6 hours ago, Gallows said:

I’ll try, but I just did it and escaped. It’s a somewhat scripted mission, so becomming wanted may be part of it. Hard to know, but it’s not how it happens in free roaming crime in my experience.

You what, mate? You escaped? Who cares?

I said without getting a bounty, who gives a crap if you escaped or not? Anyone can just run.

I rest my case, then, the game doesn't always respect its own rules.

It's still an amazing game, this is called bad game design. It's the one thing a game should do, have consistent rules.

And there it doesn't, no witness, no noise, nothing, still wanted. It's BS, pure and simple.

 

3 hours ago, MatthewIRL said:

This is your one hang up? Get in, get out, escape the law. It's one scenario designed to draw attention to you early on in Chapter 2. The game's been out for a week. Move on from it.

Anyone else got any more of them useless tips, or should I cash them in right now?

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NoEasyDay

I think what they're saying here is that in THAT one instance the bounty is scripted as in, its unavoidable for that mission. So it doesn't really apply to the issues with the bounty system in free mode, because there are set rules the game has when it comes to the particular mission. 

 

I'm not saying I agree with it, and personally I think its stupid also. If you read my OP you'll see I even specifically called out that mission. But I've since accepted that getting a bounty in that mission is a scripted event so therefore its not really the same. 

 

Do I agree with how it works? No. Do I have other issues with the bounty system as a whole? Absolutely. But I do get what they're saying here. 

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Gallows
53 minutes ago, The Algerian said:

You what, mate? You escaped? Who cares?

I said without getting a bounty, who gives a crap if you escaped or not? Anyone can just run.

I rest my case, then, the game doesn't always respect its own rules.

It's still an amazing game, this is called bad game design. It's the one thing a game should do, have consistent rules.

And there it doesn't, no witness, no noise, nothing, still wanted. It's BS, pure and simple.

 

Anyone else got any more of them useless tips, or should I cash them in right now?

You only read half of what I posted apparently. I’ll sum it up.

 

Semi scripted mission.

Wanted may be hard coded in that mission

Not representative of the wanted system.

the end.

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0223998743

-First backroom introduced to the player.

-WANTED and investigation without witnesses

-Lawmen saying "we now you are in there" 

-Arthur "Ah sh*t"

-Lawmen are always situated in front at the bank no matter what.

 

Yes, I would say this is pretty scripted. If you would have done the back business in Saint Denis for example you would have known this is possible to rob them without any problem if done correctly.

Edited by anthony

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Satanta

Feels to me as if the Bounty system is designed to make you an outlaw on a consitent basis.

 

I have to go with some of the ones saying even farting in the wrong room gets you a Bounty.  It is a bit ridiculous.

 

I spent most of my first part of 2 wanted everywhere.  Got it cleared up-found out one cannot visit Blackwater or beyond too early but I may see what happens with a boat just for giggles.

 

Rode into St Denis late at night, was wandering around-keep in mind I've only been there once, got into no trouble, bought a Saddle and left. So, late night/early morning it is pitch black and my horse must have stepped on someones toes.  I went half a block and a Wanted sign popped up-it even said Wanted Arthur morgan.   Then it went to Investigating and went away no bounty but how is the bloody frell did anyone know who I was in a town I've never been late at night.   Bounties seem hit and miss-I can kill someone back in the middle of nowhere off the trail or shoot a sheep in the dark with a bow away from the homestead and get a bounty.   200 feet out of town with wagons and riders?   50/50.

 

It was as strange in RDR1...I go up into Tall Trees, way off the beaten path to hunt Bears by a spawn spot and the shoot the birds guy shows up, shooting at birds and wants to challenege you.   Shoot him and sometimes get a bounty, always lose Honor-no one around, neither should be affected as Honor is a societal viewpoint and veries by person as to what is/is not honorable.  No one sees you kill someone and no one is going to know-not like there is a sign over your head saying "I stole a candy bar so I'm not Honorable".

 

Should be same/better in RDR2 but it has been, so far, a real PITA.

 

I've lived in country resmbling every region in the game so far-most of the time, if there is a crime, you deal with it yourself-the Sheriff shows up two hours later to draw chalk outlines and take some notes.   Even here where I am now-emergency call to Sheriff can take 30 to 40 minutes for anyone to show.

 

Rob a train in the middle of nowhere and the law aint going to show up before the gunsmoke clears.

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MadHammerThorsteen
2 hours ago, NoEasyDay said:

Easy guy. No need to resort to name calling. Hes just a little misguided that's all.

Misguided and sarcastic. And I said what I said with a smile on my face. I was amused. :)

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Mister Pink
On 11/2/2018 at 9:49 AM, paddymcg said:

How do you see random chance as being better than set rules when it comes to the wanted system?

 

You changed your argument a wee bit there. Originally you said.. 

 

Quote

..I hate this stupid 'makes it less likely' or 'decreases the chance' bullsh*t.

To "random chance." I think "makes it less likely" or "decreases the chance" is more accurate, realistic and favourable than "random chance" but I'm being pedantic. 

 

You also said

Quote

Having to walk on eggshells in a wild west game is just plain stupid imo. It ruins the interaction mechanic if I can't antagonise someone without fear of them running to the police and putting a bounty on my head. It's not even realistic, I can guarantee you far worse things were said back in those days and if police put a bounty on everyone who said a bad word then half the country would have been hanged at the neck.

It's the end of the wild west. Even Morgan touches on this. Society and civility is making it's way west. That's always been a big theme of the games. And Wild West doesn't mean, do anything you like with impunity. If you antagonise people and they do run to the police, that's the game working in action. That's what happens when you antagonise people. If you actually put it the other way and you antagonize people and they don't run to the law, then that's not very believable, is it? You just run around antagonizing people with no repercussions.

 

The walking on eggshells is the fun in my opinion. Anything can go down. And that's how I imagine it would be like to live in a place where often, matters are resolved by bullets, and every Tom, Dick and Harry walks around is gun on them. There is law but how many murders could you actually get away within the game? Far to many to be believed. 

Edited by Mister Pink

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paddymcg
17 hours ago, Mister Pink said:

 

The walking on eggshells is the fun in my opinion. Anything can go down. And that's how I imagine it would be like to live in a place where often, matters are resolved by bullets, and every Tom, Dick and Harry walks around is gun on them. There is law but how many murders could you actually get away within the game? Far to many to be believed. 

It makes the interaction mechanic pretty pointless for me. If I antagonise someone I either expect some fisticuffs (or a duel) or some banter.

 

Instead most of the time in cities it results in police trying to blow my brains out because I said someone looked ugly and they sprinted to the police. That's just downright annoying (not to mention completely unrealistic) and I've avoided the interaction mechanic because of it.

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paddymcg
On 11/3/2018 at 1:55 PM, Wolfboy20 said:

Hmm did the train stop near a town or something? Because if it did then the cops are more likely to respond..of not then thats some bs..amd they showed up in seconds? That needs to be patched asap

Nope, this was in the middle of nowhere, no towns for miles around.

 

I've even tried repeating this by stealth killing the guard on the back but still somehow the train driver is telepathic and instantly stopped the train. He also must be a dragonborn because his calls for help were answered by every cop in the area. Trains are clearly scripted events, you can't do anything without the cops finding out.

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Ol' Stinky Pete
2 hours ago, paddymcg said:

Nope, this was in the middle of nowhere, no towns for miles around.

 

I've even tried repeating this by stealth killing the guard on the back but still somehow the train driver is telepathic and instantly stopped the train. He also must be a dragonborn because his calls for help were answered by every cop in the area. Trains are clearly scripted events, you can't do anything without the cops finding out.

Agreed. I tried this the other day too. Panned out exactly as you describe. Police swarmed in. 

Don't like how the driver seems to be, like you say, telepathic. 

 

I should be able to take out the guards with knives etc. Rob the passengers and disappear back into the night with the driver none the wiser :(

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Wolfboy20
7 minutes ago, Ol' Stinky Pete said:

Agreed. I tried this the other day too. Panned out exactly as you describe. Police swarmed in. 

Don't like how the driver seems to be, like you say, telepathic. 

 

I should be able to take out the guards with knives etc. Rob the passengers and disappear back into the night with the driver none the wiser :(

Yeah especially since steam trains are extra loud in the front...makes absolutely 0 sense. This needs to be patched asap!!

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Gigabomber
On 10/29/2018 at 4:44 PM, NoEasyDay said:

Gold bar duplication glitch. In other words, unlimited money. Now I can play the game how I want to and just pay the bounties.

Third time in valentine, I walked into the saloon and the doors knocked down someone inside. I stepped back outside and was getting shot at, and I returned fire, guessing it was a trigger happy gang or something. 130 dollar bounty paid, which I had to fundraise for, I got another bounty for simply doing the missions and bumping into someone that I knocked out in the ensuing fist fight. Now I have 30 gold bars because f that.

 

I remember that vice city had a similar problem and it damaged the experience. If anything, the old west should be more lenient and free. You should occasionally, just by chance, get away with things you couldn’t in the modern world.

Edited by Gigabomber

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TankGirl
On 10/29/2018 at 9:58 PM, anthony said:

I can't tell because I didn't do it y

 

Honestly, I doubt that. A few times in Saint Denis I got mocked and harassed by some fellers and they never pulled pistols on me just like that, even when trying to diffuse the situation they started to fist fight me. The only times they pulled a gun on me is when I took my gun out and when I ran them over with my horse.

 

It's all fun but please guys if you did not play enough and do not understand how this works, don't spread false information.

 

Why do you doubt that? Just because it never happened to you or hasn't yet doesn't mean its not true, the game hasn't been out long enough for you to have experienced everything yet. I for one did have some guy start shooting me for no reason as well. I hit defuse after this guy started trouble up for no reason since I  really dont ever threaten anyone and I thought that would settle it and this guy takes out two pistols and starts shooting at me so I went ahead and equipped my gun and shot back, killing him and I got a bounty for defending myself.  I travel alot so I dont remember exactly what town it was but yeah it happened. 

Edited by TankGirl

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¡MAYDAY!

I accidentally shot the bartender at point blank range in the small saloon in Valentine. No mask on or anything. Lots of witnesses. I bolted out of town and was never even wanted let alone a bounty.

Edited by ¡MAYDAY!

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MidworldDrifter

For the people praising how realistic the wanted system is, could you explain a couple things?

1. How does the law immediately find out about a train robbery in the middle of nowhere?
2. Like somebody mentioned earlier in the thread, isn't unrealistic to be able to interact with the law when Arthur has a massive bounty on his head? How come bounty hunters are the only ones willing to kill him? Did some testing in Valentine and the lawmen do apprehend Arthur if he has a bounty already.

The wanted system is odd because there are moments where I expected law to arrive but didn't. For example the gunsmith at Rhodes fired a shot at me so I hogtied him and left him in the basement. Oddly enough there was no law enforcement to investigate when there is a sheriff's office only a couple of feet away.

Edited by MidworldDrifter

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saintsrow
On 11/6/2018 at 2:21 AM, paddymcg said:

It makes the interaction mechanic pretty pointless for me. If I antagonise someone I either expect some fisticuffs (or a duel) or some banter.

 

Instead most of the time in cities it results in police trying to blow my brains out because I said someone looked ugly and they sprinted to the police. That's just downright annoying (not to mention completely unrealistic) and I've avoided the interaction mechanic because of it.

The shame of it all, is that Rockstar could have made a special logical condition that would distinguish a fun exchange of insults from a real fight that would result, after an NPC declares, "Them's fightin' words!"  Opportunity missed.   😕

 

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Satanta

ised, also lived in Arizona, Oklahoma, Florida and a dozen other places.

 

Now, out in Texas and where I was in Florida and even here-modern day, everyone carried a firearm, no one walked on Eggshells over it and never knew anyone to just pull out a firearm and start shooting at someone for getting into an arguement and we sure as sh*t didn't go calling the Sheriff if we got bump was moving was out in the Boonies of the map and the Sheriff showed up before the shooting stopped between me and the folks on the train plus they boarded a moving triain en-masse.ed into.

 

That's SJW nonsense-  "You called me a Naaaaaaame!   I'm telling!"

 

Even nowdays, someone calls the Sheriff because someone was Mean! to them they Sheriff is going to laugh at them.   Locally a 15 year old boy shot a home intruder couple years ago then called the Sheriff.  First thing Sheriff said was "Is he dead?"  'Yes sir'  "You ok?"  'Yes sir.' "Alright, we'll be out in a couple of hours, toss a blanket over him or roll him outside. We'll come quiet so to not disturb the neighbors but we'll run the lights so you know it's us."

 

The Wanted mechanics are messed up intentionally or not they are still silly and do not go with the time the game is set in-modernization or not.   It's only nowadays you get in trouble if you call someone a name or say something that's not PC.

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GusMcCree

Try to shoot 5 birds from moving train ...to the moment all ending in a shooting with the guards 😑😣

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_jodielaura
On 11/10/2018 at 4:54 PM, GusMcCree said:

Try to shoot 5 birds from moving train ...to the moment all ending in a shooting with the guards 😑😣

I just did this. Shot 2 birds and got a $55 bounty.

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Gallows
15 minutes ago, xjodielaura said:

I just did this. Shot 2 birds and got a $55 bounty.

I did all five with a mask on and no issues. I was away from town, don’t know if that matters.

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