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NoEasyDay

Can you do ANYTHING without getting a bounty?

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Gallows
5 hours ago, anthony said:

Players complain they got troubles but they did not even walk away.

 

@Gallows hand to hand combat does not kill.

Well it may not kill (although it actually can). But if you beat someone while having them grabbed it is my experience the sherif will find this too much sometimes. I beat up 20+ people right in front of the sherif just trying different things to see how he reacted. Also made people draw their gun at me and shoot. Every time the sherif reacted like I’d expect him to react. Haven’t tried shooting people in the hand when they draw on me, but I will test that later to see what he does. They may have to actually hit me first though for the game to recognize that I am defending myself, because if I shoot at someone and don’t hit them I am only disturbing the peace. Will also try to shoot at people and make them shoot me to see who the sherif helps.

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0223998743
27 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Well it may not kill (although it actually can)

Really ? I've never killed someone in hand to hand combat and most of the fight were in front of other people, although if you kick them while they are KO, you can kill them and it's considered as a murder.

 

27 minutes ago, Gallows said:

But if you beat someone while having them grabbed it is my experience the sherif will find this too much sometimes. I beat up 20+ people right in front of the sherif just trying different things to see how he reacted. Also made people draw their gun at me and shoot. Every time the sherif reacted like I’d expect him to react.

Okay, good to know.

 

2 hours ago, zartan5000 said:

I was out hunting in the Grizzlies. Shot a deer and then an elk pretty close together. $15.00 bounty out of nowhere. There were no people nearby.

I don't get it, with all the players who have trouble with the system, I have not seen a single clip.

Edited by anthony

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bish0p2004
On 10/30/2018 at 7:01 AM, Gallows said:

Exactly. If you shoot back, you will end up getting a bounty. Self defence as an excuse seldom works in your favor against the townspeople whom you shoot in self defence. If you play the game and put some thought into what you do, it's easy to avoid the law. Someone askes me to "get the hell out of the way" and pulled out his repeater at a river crossing. In RDR1 I'd have shot him in the face and not looked back. In this situation I didn't, because I knew it would be a risk if someone saw me leave the area, I'd have to clean up the crime scene and dispose of the body and someone may witness me doing that. I had one instance where I robbed someone and shot them. Someone saw me dispose of the body, which made me dispose of a second body, which someone else witnessed - after three bodies, the road was fortunately quiet for a while. I did however not get into trouble with the law. This has however made me think a second time before breaking the law. I really like this new system. Work with it instead of trying to break it - you will lose.

 

I like the system too...I'm still not a fan of the bandana not working on law enforcement though as it takes away from the immersion, but not sure how they could have balanced that.

 

Also train robberies do suck though because they are instantly alerted to you as soon as you try to hit a second cart.  There doesnt even have to be a witness either. It reminds me of robbing stores in gta v and the crime system in that game sucks

Edited by bish0p2004

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saintsrow
10 hours ago, anthony said:

That's not what I experienced, with a bandana and a mask I did not get indentified by civilians.

 

Literally shot the bartender in Valentine's saloon while wearing a bandana, got out using the back door and took off my bandana, crime reported and unknown suspect.

I roamed around on purpose to see the lawmem behavior, one of them finally saw me and asked a few question, I answered nicely and I was able to walk away. 

If you do have a bounty tho, he will mostly recognized you during the conversation and will try to arrest you.

 

I just recorded a clip while I was in Rhodes..

 

 

There is also that from the digital guide:

 

638da42.jpg


9eZ1gVZ.jpg

 

Pretty damn ironic that Rockstar created the best and most versatile video game AI ever, just so that random NPCs can recognize Arthur the perp, even if he's changed every single thing about himself, except maybe his socks.  😕

 

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Outlaw from the West

This literally just happened 

 

I went into Valentine to customize my guns, and I went to get on my horse but accidentally grappled a guy

 

I let him go and he started punching me, I got a bounty

 

Deputy tells Arthur & the guy to settle it, so I punched the guy until he KO’d then the deputy told me to get lost, so I tried to get on my horse (who was behind the Deputy) and he instantly starts shooting at me, and I get a $25 bounty

 

I let them kill me, and I respawn and I still have the $25 bounty on me...

 

Even if it was intentional, doing literally anything illegal is so disencouraged and almost impossible to get away with cleanly.

 

This system is so broken 

Edited by winter.ak

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0223998743
Quote

just so that random NPCs can recognize Arthur the perp, even if he's changed every single thing about himself,

But, witnesses do not recognize Arthur, they just describe him to law enforcement.

Edited by anthony

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Gallows
4 hours ago, anthony said:

But, witnesses do not recognize Arthur, they just describe him to law enforcement.

Exactly and the law then checks if the description fits Arthur I think. I don’t know for how long your clothes, horse and other stuff remain in their memory though. That’s how it seems to work.

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paddymcg

At the end of the day it's a video game. I want hard set rules. If you do X without doing Y you will get a bounty. I hate this stupid 'makes it less likely' or 'decreases the chance' bullsh*t.

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Gallows
10 minutes ago, paddymcg said:

At the end of the day it's a video game. I want hard set rules. If you do X without doing Y you will get a bounty. I hate this stupid 'makes it less likely' or 'decreases the chance' bullsh*t.

I’m happy you didn’t develop this game then 😂

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paddymcg
19 minutes ago, Gallows said:

I’m happy you didn’t develop this game then 😂

How do you see random chance as being better than set rules when it comes to the wanted system?

 

 

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Gallows
44 minutes ago, paddymcg said:

How do you see random chance as being better than set rules when it comes to the wanted system?

 

 

Because set rules give the sense of a really fake world.

 

In real life a huge number of things would influence if you were recognized or not, to an extent that random events would result in someone noticing your special hat or whatever it could be. It is however not completely random in RDR2, because you can change your clothing, hat and horse, plus use a mask.

 

Lets say the chance of you getting recognized is 100% without a mask. Then you wear a mask, so your face cannot be used to describe you.

 

Your hat, clothes and horse are then used and perhaps if the law has seen you in the same clothes and the same hat they may recognize you. Perhaps your hat gives a 10% chance. It may add up, so if you wear a mask but also all the clothes you have worn for days in town, it may be a High propability for them to identify you.

 

You could then maybe reduce the chance to 0% if you changed everything out so no one had ever seen you in those clothes, horse etc.

 

Since the game cannot simulate entire personalities of NPC’s to take into account millions of small things, this works just fine as a simulation.

 

The key thing is that you as a player can do things to influence the outcome.

 

I don’t know exactly how it is programmed to work, but something along those lines I guess from my experience with and tests of the system. The game may in fact also take into account a simulated memory of NPCs, so they may forget your connection to specific clothes etc. after a while.

 

This system is very superiour to a God system, where everything is certain and seen by the law.

Edited by Gallows

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paddymcg
19 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Because set rules give the sense of a really fake world.

 

In real life a huge number of things would influence if you were recognized or not, to an extent that random events would result in someone noticing your special hat or whatever it could be. It is however not completely random in RDR2, because you can change your clothing, hat and horse, plus use a mask.

 

Lets say the chance of you getting recognized is 100% without a mask. Then you wear a mask, so your face cannot be used to describe you.

 

Your hat, clothes and horse are then used and perhaps if the law has seen you in the same clothes and the same hat they may recognize you. Perhaps your hat gives a 10% chance. It may add up, so if you wear a mask but also all the clothes you have worn for days in town, it may be a High propability for them to identify you.

 

You could then maybe reduce the chance to 0% if you changed everything out so no one had ever seen you in those clothes, horse etc.

 

Since the game cannot simulate entire personalities of NPC’s to take into account millions of small things, this works just fine as a simulation.

 

The key thing is that you as a player can do things to influence the outcome.

 

I don’t know exactly how it is programmed to work, but something along those lines I guess from my experience with and tests of the system. The game may in fact also take into account a simulated memory of NPCs, so they may forget your connection to specific clothes etc. after a while.

 

This system is very superiour to a God system, where everything is certain and seen by the law.

Well actually I was referring to the wanted system in RDR1 when I was talking about set rules. It was similar to RDR2 but felt a lot better and it was 100% more fun. I'd be perfectly fine with the wanted system in RDR2 if followed some basic rules from RDR1:

 

breach of the peace = not a crime

self defence = not a crime

bandanna = no loss of honor/ no identification

 

Having to walk on eggshells in a wild west game is just plain stupid imo. It ruins the interaction mechanic if I can't antagonise someone without fear of them running to the police and putting a bounty on my head. It's not even realistic, I can guarantee you far worse things were said back in those days and if police put a bounty on everyone who said a bad word then half the country would have been hanged at the neck.

 

 

 

 

 

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Gallows
14 minutes ago, paddymcg said:

Well actually I was referring to the wanted system in RDR1 when I was talking about set rules. It was similar to RDR2 but felt a lot better and it was 100% more fun. I'd be perfectly fine with the wanted system in RDR2 if followed some basic rules from RDR1:

 

breach of the peace = not a crime

self defence = not a crime

bandanna = no loss of honor/ no identification

 

Having to walk on eggshells in a wild west game is just plain stupid imo. It ruins the interaction mechanic if I can't antagonise someone without fear of them running to the police and putting a bounty on my head. It's not even realistic, I can guarantee you far worse things were said back in those days and if police put a bounty on everyone who said a bad word then half the country would have been hanged at the neck.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, so you’re not talking about the actual system but the law of the game.

 

Self defence is hard to do. Self defence does work for hand to hand combat. If someone wants to fight you and you let them get the first punch, the sherif will not do anything to you and you will not get a Bounty.

 

As for shootouts it may be the same, but it may also require the enemy to actually hit you first.

 

I think breach of the peace is great, although it may need to be tweaked, so that if someone has shot you, it will not come into effect, but if you just start shooting your guns it will.

 

In real life a lot of people get fines that are not fair, so I like this system. I just pay my bounty.

 

I very much disagree with the bandana preventing honour loss, because I see it as your personality, and I like you become a bad person if you murder everyone in a town. It felt so lame in the first game, the jeckyl and hyde game.

Edited by Gallows

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paddymcg
25 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Oh, so you’re not talking about the actual system but the law of the game.

 

Self defence is hard to do. Self defence does work for hand to hand combat. If someone wants to fight you and you let them get the first punch, the sherif will not do anything to you and you will not get a Bounty.

 

As for shootouts it may be the same, but it may also require the enemy to actually hit you first.

 

I think breach of the peace is great, although it may need to be tweaked, so that if someone has shot you, it will not come into effect, but if you just start shooting your guns it will.

 

In real life a lot of people get fines that are not fair, so I like this system. I just pay my bounty.

 

I very much disagree with the bandana preventing honour loss, because I see it as your personality, and I like you become a bad person if you murder everyone in a town. It felt so lame in the first game, the jeckyl and hyde game.

Well the self defence definitely does not work for shooting (being shot at) just yesterday I was crossing the bridge to St Denis but there was an Alligator by the bridge so my horse started moving to the side uncontrollably and ended up lightly bumping into another rider on the bridge, him and his friend immediately started shooting me so I killed them and ended up being wanted for murder so either bumping horses is considered a killable offence or self defence is not a thing.

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Gallows
13 minutes ago, paddymcg said:

Well the self defence definitely does not work for shooting (being shot at) just yesterday I was crossing the bridge to St Denis but there was an Alligator by the bridge so my horse started moving to the side uncontrollably and ended up lightly bumping into another rider on the bridge, him and his friend immediately started shooting me so I killed them and ended up being wanted for murder so either bumping horses is considered a killable offence or self defence is not a thing.

Did they shoot AT you or did they both actually hit you before you killed them?

 

Besides, you still have several options.

 

1. Ride away and don’t shoot back. They will not chase you far.

2. Take care of the witnesses.

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paddymcg
3 minutes ago, Gallows said:

Did they shoot AT you or did they both actually hit you before you killed them?

 

Besides, you still have several options.

 

1. Ride away and don’t shoot back. They will not chase you far.

2. Take care of the witnesses.

They almost killed me while I was doing the slow animation of taking the guns out of the saddle (we really need an option to stop automatically putting guns back in the saddle).

 

I would have been killed if I didn't kill them, I was almost dead by the time I got my guns out.

 

Did I mention this was in St. Denis I would have had to kill/threaten half the town to take care of all the witnesses and every witness I killed/threatened would have just created more witnesses.

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Gallows
46 minutes ago, paddymcg said:

They almost killed me while I was doing the slow animation of taking the guns out of the saddle (we really need an option to stop automatically putting guns back in the saddle).

 

I would have been killed if I didn't kill them, I was almost dead by the time I got my guns out.

 

Did I mention this was in St. Denis I would have had to kill/threaten half the town to take care of all the witnesses and every witness I killed/threatened would have just created more witnesses.

Ah I see. That is one of the things that needs tweaking then. When an npc hits you first it should no longer be a problem shooting back - unless you hit a bystander. I have not tested if disarming shots are allowed but will test. Maybe it’s the same as with hand to hand, you are allowed to knock him out, but not kill him.

 

As for getting your rifle from your horse - that is to be expected. Use an equipped weapon instead. I always draw my handguns. 

Edited by Gallows

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bish0p2004
9 hours ago, saintsrow said:

Pretty damn ironic that Rockstar created the best and most versatile video game AI ever, just so that random NPCs can recognize Arthur the perp, even if he's changed every single thing about himself, except maybe his socks.  😕

 

 

Did you put shoe lifts on?  They can't recognize you if you're a few inches taller.

 

2 hours ago, paddymcg said:

Well actually I was referring to the wanted system in RDR1 when I was talking about set rules. It was similar to RDR2 but felt a lot better and it was 100% more fun. I'd be perfectly fine with the wanted system in RDR2 if followed some basic rules from RDR1:

 

breach of the peace = not a crime

self defence = not a crime

bandanna = no loss of honor/ no identification

 

Having to walk on eggshells in a wild west game is just plain stupid imo. It ruins the interaction mechanic if I can't antagonise someone without fear of them running to the police and putting a bounty on my head. It's not even realistic, I can guarantee you far worse things were said back in those days and if police put a bounty on everyone who said a bad word then half the country would have been hanged at the neck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with all of this except the breach of peace and other minor violations.  You can defuse those and the sheriff will ask you to move on, so I like having them in the game.

Edited by bish0p2004

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R*Phenomenon

I think the only good tip is to use manual saves. just save the game now and then after u accomplished or found something. that way if u get a bounty u can always load back to a few minutes earlier..

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Gallows
11 minutes ago, R*Phenomenon said:

I think the only good tip is to use manual saves. just save the game now and then after u accomplished or found something. that way if u get a bounty u can always load back to a few minutes earlier..

Why not just pay the Bounty? It’s not like you get a $100 Bounty out of nowhere? It’s not really a disaster to get a $10 or smaller Bounty. I killed a man in self defence and my Bounty was $7.5, which I paid and moved on.

Edited by Gallows

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R*Phenomenon

well i dont know wich crimes i have commited to deserve between 50 and 250 dollar bounties then.. i had a few lower ones, but most of the time its 50 or higher.

Not that i collect that much, but i always like it if i can load into a game just before a bounty happened. 

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Gallows
26 minutes ago, R*Phenomenon said:

well i dont know wich crimes i have commited to deserve between 50 and 250 dollar bounties then.. i had a few lower ones, but most of the time its 50 or higher.

Not that i collect that much, but i always like it if i can load into a game just before a bounty happened. 

I have not seen a single instance of this. The most I’ve had is 300, for the micah incident in strawberry - because I did not play smart.

 

You can check out the list somewhere of what bounties each crime gives you. I’ll go check shooting now and report back. I know hand to hand works perfectly and allows you to defend yourself with no Bounty.

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saintsrow
1 hour ago, R*Phenomenon said:

I think the only good tip is to use manual saves. just save the game now and then after u accomplished or found something. that way if u get a bounty u can always load back to a few minutes earlier..

I have reverted to saving the game every time I don't lose money or get killed by bounty hunters, and reloading if I do.  That's klnd of ridiculous, but this bounty system is driving me nuts.  I actually would like to wait in hiding until the bounty hunters show up, kill them and loot them all, but after waiting all night, Arthur's health is down to about 1/8, and he gets killed, and then they take about $40 of your money..  Pretty frustrating.  

 

There's hardly a point in paying off bounties, because they came right back, with the next random interaction you have.  I'd be spending all my time riding to the post office.  

 

Saving and loading, which I'm doing all the time now,  just means I'm gaming the game.  

 

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Gallows

Did a few quick tests. It was incredibly difficult to make someone draw their gun and shoot at me. One npc pulled out his gun and told me he’d shoot me if I pulled put mine, but I didn’t so he backed down. I had one draw his gun during a fist fight, I shot him in the hand, which killed him because he was low on health. The sherif came and told me to move along, but still got a $15 fine for murder.

 

I’ll try again later, but really it’s damn hard making civilians shoot at you unless you do something bad first.

 

it may also depend on your honour. If you have a low honour, the sherif may be more inclined to charge you. I’ll get my honour maxed and then try again. Currently it’s in the middle.

 

I do however not find it hard to avoid bounties and when I do get one, I always know it’s something I did, even if it wasn’t on purpose. Hitting people with the horse. I always ride at a slow pace through towns and if you don’t I guess you just have to pay, if mistakes happen.

 

All of you who seem to struggle with the Bounty system must be doing something I’m not to get into trouble all the time. I rob people, kill people, steal their wagons, beat them up, rob stores, steal horses and kill owned animals for hide and yet it’s very rare I get a Bounty on my head - it only happens when I mess up.

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full_r3trd
On 10/29/2018 at 4:44 PM, NoEasyDay said:

 

Hey man, dunno if you are open to this kind of thing, but I found a solution that works for ME.

 

Gold bar duplication glitch. In other words, unlimited money. Now I can play the game how I want to and just pay the bounties. Dunno if you are open to exploiting the game like that, but if so look it up. It's easy. 

 

Regardless good luck man!

not good enough, that's too much cheating, then you can just upgrade everything and there is no point in doing 50% of the game, rockstar needs to fix it, it's the only way

 

then the game is just you running around being a psychopath and paying bounties, to me that is boring, i like trying to be stealhty, doing things a more clever way because i can just kill everything i see easy and pay the bounties, then this game sucks and i wont play it

 

now im trying to rob people with a mask on and being identified, is the mask just cosmetic??? if im wearing a mask they need to catch me to identify me as far as im concerned, they should need to come unmask me

Edited by full_r3trd

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jje1000

I think the Witness part needs to be tweaked so that they don't remember what you wear exactly (kind of like how witness reports aren't that detailed), and that it takes longer for law-enforcement to arrive.

 

The system just needs to be made a bit looser.

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Gallows
4 minutes ago, jje1000 said:

I think the Witness part needs to be tweaked so that they don't remember what you wear exactly (kind of like how witness reports aren't that detailed), and that it takes longer for law-enforcement to arrive.

 

The system just needs to be made a bit looser.

Agree with that; a few tweaks would be nice.

 

As long as they keep it harsh and hard.

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full_r3trd
1 minute ago, Gallows said:

Agree with that; a few tweaks would be nice.

 

As long as they keep it harsh and hard.

i think it just needs to be realistic, that is hard... like if you walk into the saloon that day wearing your gunslinger outfit and come back wearing same thing with a mask on and rob the place you should be identified or something... it just needs to work in a common sense way so nothing needs to be explained... things should happen in a natural way that makes sense to the player... so they just need to think about the decision tree for every character involved in a given situation as it applies to real life, lol, that sounded complicated but all im saying is that they need to think in a realistic way, that is harsh and hard

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Wolfboy20
On 10/31/2018 at 5:40 AM, paddymcg said:

I was riding on the rooftop of a freight train in Ambarino. I was on the last car trying to shoot birds with my varmint rifle for the sharpshooter challenge.

 

As soon as I fired the first shot, the train stopped and some people on the train tried to kill me, then the cops showed up out of nowhere and I got a bounty.

 

I'm okay with the train stopping and the guards trying to kill me but there's no way the law could have found out about the crime, let alone get to the scene of the crime as fast as they did, that's completely stupid.

Hmm did the train stop near a town or something? Because if it did then the cops are more likely to respond..of not then thats some bs..amd they showed up in seconds? That needs to be patched asap

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0223998743

The thing is e.g. if you kill a sheriff in his office with a mask on you will be instantly identified as Arthur Morgan.

 

I think the train robbery issue with the guards come from that, I wonder if they are in the same PEDS group than the law enforcement.

 

I asked the support, they basically said they didn't have any information to communicate about that.

In any case I think it should be fixed ASAP.

Edited by anthony

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