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OfficialTwiggz

SPOILER:Why we will continue to play as Morgan through the duration of the story

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SAS_Intruder
2 hours ago, Pink Pineapple said:

They don't want you to keep playing story mode. They want you to get bored so you'll play online and buy cash cards.

 

They did the same thing with GTA V. After the story is over, the game world gets boring since there's very few crime-related activities. No vigilante. No burglaries. No drug dealing. No gang wars. It was all part of the plan to make more money.

 

Maybe it was. I just know that RDR1 ending was little different than usual so I thought it's ok, something new. Also,  even I wanted to continue to play as John, Jack still did make sense for all free roam activities since he was angry young man, for a good reason.

 

But in RDR2, having same kind of ending is not unique as it was the first time. Even bigger issue is that it doesn't fit free roam activities,  those violent ones. John has to lay low, keep himself out of trouble.  He has family to take care of. Wondering around for days/week or getting into any type of shootout doesn't make any sense. Also, since we already know what's going to happen to John, it feel kinda pointless being stuck with him.

 

I would much rather have something different.  Arthur leaving the gang for good with that girl Mary and assuming different identify.  Gets small apartment in ST Dennis (with nice view ) and gets a regular  daily job but still does illegal things on the side and under the radar because they need money. Mary is ok with that. That ends up being motivation for John to do the same.

 

At the end, they show Jack coming to St Denise to visit Arthur few years after John was killed.

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BlondieandTuco

That's literally the part of the story, I don't know if you realize this but there's multiple ways Arthur dies at the end, and the bad honor ones aren't very nice. John is no longer a bad guy, because all the "bad guys" are being hunted down. What you just said about the Mary idea is absolutely ludicrous and you would realize that if you actually played the entire game, Arthur is the sole reason John survives, there is no Jack and Abigail surviving without Arthur either because Milton kidnaps Abigail who is then rescued by Arthur and John is left for dead by Dutch and the gang before being ambushed by pinkertons when he finds his way back. You're being incredibely picky over a story you seem to not have even partially grasped yet, Arthur is not a good guy, no matter how much honor you get throughout the game you realize the only time he starts to truly show how much he cares for the gang is when he starts dying. Him getting TB is what leads him to throw out Strauss as he's furious after the last loan shark mission, being where you rob a single drunkard dad and his son, the dad not having the money so you take it from his kid. Arthur is a criminal, he's not going to settle down in some nice apartment in Saint Dennis because as he says MULTIPLE times throughout the game. Loyalty is the only thing that's ever mattered to him, it's all he cares about, it's the only reason he didn't get on the train with Mary when he had the chance because he knew Dutch was going insane. Arthurs dead, his story sets up Johns story, in many ways the epilogue is literally the prologue of the first red dead. The ending probably would've been unique if maybe you didn't go digging through spoiler forums about the entire game.

33 minutes ago, SAS_Intruder said:

Maybe it was. I just know that RDR1 ending was little different than usual so I thought it's ok, something new. Also,  even I wanted to continue to play as John, Jack still did make sense for all free roam activities since he was angry young man, for a good reason.

 

But in RDR2, having same kind of ending is not unique as it was the first time. Even bigger issue is that it doesn't fit free roam activities,  those violent ones. John has to lay low, keep himself out of trouble.  He has family to take care of. Wondering around for days/week or getting into any type of shootout doesn't make any sense. Also, since we already know what's going to happen to John, it feel kinda pointless being stuck with him.

 

I would much rather have something different.  Arthur leaving the gang for good with that girl Mary and assuming different identify.  Gets small apartment in ST Dennis (with nice view ) and gets a regular  daily job but still does illegal things on the side and under the radar because they need money. Mary is ok with that. That ends up being motivation for John to do the same.

 

At the end, they show Jack coming to St Denise to visit Arthur few years after John was killed.

 

Just now, BlondieandTuco said:

That's literally the part of the story, I don't know if you realize this but there's multiple ways Arthur dies at the end, and the bad honor ones aren't very nice. John is no longer a bad guy, because all the "bad guys" are being hunted down. What you just said about the Mary idea is absolutely ludicrous and you would realize that if you actually played the entire game, Arthur is the sole reason John survives, there is no Jack and Abigail surviving without Arthur either because Milton kidnaps Abigail who is then rescued by Arthur and John is left for dead by Dutch and the gang before being ambushed by pinkertons when he finds his way back. You're being incredibely picky over a story you seem to not have even partially grasped yet, Arthur is not a good guy, no matter how much honor you get throughout the game you realize the only time he starts to truly show how much he cares for the gang is when he starts dying. Him getting TB is what leads him to throw out Strauss as he's furious after the last loan shark mission, being where you rob a single drunkard dad and his son, the dad not having the money so you take it from his kid. Arthur is a criminal, he's not going to settle down in some nice apartment in Saint Dennis because as he says MULTIPLE times throughout the game. Loyalty is the only thing that's ever mattered to him, it's all he cares about, it's the only reason he didn't get on the train with Mary when he had the chance because he knew Dutch was going insane. Arthurs dead, his story sets up Johns story, in many ways the epilogue is literally the prologue of the first red dead. The ending probably would've been unique if maybe you didn't go digging through spoiler forums about the entire game.

 

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BlondieandTuco
44 minutes ago, SAS_Intruder said:

Maybe it was. I just know that RDR1 ending was little different than usual so I thought it's ok, something new. Also,  even I wanted to continue to play as John, Jack still did make sense for all free roam activities since he was angry young man, for a good reason.

 

But in RDR2, having same kind of ending is not unique as it was the first time. Even bigger issue is that it doesn't fit free roam activities,  those violent ones. John has to lay low, keep himself out of trouble.  He has family to take care of. Wondering around for days/week or getting into any type of shootout doesn't make any sense. Also, since we already know what's going to happen to John, it feel kinda pointless being stuck with him.

 

I would much rather have something different.  Arthur leaving the gang for good with that girl Mary and assuming different identify.  Gets small apartment in ST Dennis (with nice view ) and gets a regular  daily job but still does illegal things on the side and under the radar because they need money. Mary is ok with that. That ends up being motivation for John to do the same.

 

At the end, they show Jack coming to St Denise to visit Arthur few years after John was killed.

I've also got to say that the part where you play as John is basically the most story driven part besides Arthurs death, seeing him lose Abigail and Jack because he went on a killing spree on bandits after they attacked the ranch he was working at and then watching him dig his own hole into bank debt just to get his family back. Along the way he reunites with the few remaining gang members and it makes uncles death in the first game so much more tragic, before this game I always assumed Uncle was just some raggedy old man who did menial tasks for the gang and leeched of John, but the story given with him and John reuniting and building the house with Charles is one of the most beautiful moments in this game. It makes you realize what a tragedy the whole gangs ending was, Arthurs death tying directly into his adopted brother Johns and leading up to Jack following the revenge chain when he kills Ross in the first game, the theme has always been here in all of the games ever since Red Dead Revolver. There's never a good ending with these games and there probably never will be, it's the end of the wild west not the peak of it, who knows maybe the next game we get will try to break the trend and give us a protagonist in a time where crime was at its peak and we can pillage freely, but we'll have to give that another 8 or so years I guess. But I mean think about it, every notorious criminal from the wild west never died glorious deaths. Jesse James gets shot in the back of his head by a man he knew, Billy the kid gets shot by a man he knew, Arthurs death is actually semi based on Doc Holliday who died of Tuberculosis, Wild Bill Hickock shot in the back of the head while playing poker, Johnny Ringo shoots himself in the head, Curly Bill gets killed by Wyatt Earp, Butch Cassidy commits suicide after being cornered, the sundance kid commits suicide after being cornered, Calamity Jane drank herself to death, and the list goes on and on. Rockstar wrote a western that strayed away from the usual spaghetti western cliches, it's funny because Micah has a white hat on the whole game which is usually associated with the good guy and the black hat (Arthur) with the bad guy but the positions are switched. Rockstar gave us something semi closer to real life, being an outlaw in the wild west had its perks as most of their names were cemented in history, but it doesn't change the fact that most of them didn't go out in blazes of glory fighting for "freedom against the law" and died deaths they probably never saw coming. 

Edited by BlondieandTuco

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Doublepulse
6 hours ago, BlondieandTuco said:

I've also got to say that the part where you play as John is basically the most story driven part besides Arthurs death, seeing him lose Abigail and Jack because he went on a killing spree on bandits after they attacked the ranch he was working at and then watching him dig his own hole into bank debt just to get his family back. Along the way he reunites with the few remaining gang members and it makes uncles death in the first game so much more tragic, before this game I always assumed Uncle was just some raggedy old man who did menial tasks for the gang and leeched of John, but the story given with him and John reuniting and building the house with Charles is one of the most beautiful moments in this game. It makes you realize what a tragedy the whole gangs ending was, Arthurs death tying directly into his adopted brother Johns and leading up to Jack following the revenge chain when he kills Ross in the first game, the theme has always been here in all of the games ever since Red Dead Revolver. There's never a good ending with these games and there probably never will be, it's the end of the wild west not the peak of it, who knows maybe the next game we get will try to break the trend and give us a protagonist in a time where crime was at its peak and we can pillage freely, but we'll have to give that another 8 or so years I guess. But I mean think about it, every notorious criminal from the wild west never died glorious deaths. Jesse James gets shot in the back of his head by a man he knew, Billy the kid gets shot by a man he knew, Arthurs death is actually semi based on Doc Holliday who died of Tuberculosis, Wild Bill Hickock shot in the back of the head while playing poker, Johnny Ringo shoots himself in the head, Curly Bill gets killed by Wyatt Earp, Butch Cassidy commits suicide after being cornered, the sundance kid commits suicide after being cornered, Calamity Jane drank herself to death, and the list goes on and on. Rockstar wrote a western that strayed away from the usual spaghetti western cliches, it's funny because Micah has a white hat on the whole game which is usually associated with the good guy and the black hat (Arthur) with the bad guy but the positions are switched. Rockstar gave us something semi closer to real life, being an outlaw in the wild west had its perks as most of their names were cemented in history, but it doesn't change the fact that most of them didn't go out in blazes of glory fighting for "freedom against the law" and died deaths they probably never saw coming. 

 

Lol I read most of all your posts and you hit the nail on the head! I thought the ending was great! I feel sad that Arthur is gone, but he is not forgotten.

 

Also there is quite a bit of hidden Easter eggs to find. As John I found Mary-Beth at a train stop and it started a cutscene talking about how she is now a writer and that she still misses everyone. In this scene, John mentions Arthur saying he still thinks about him a lot and doesn’t talk about him much (which makes sense considering he’s never referenced in the first game).

 

 

The point is there is so much more to look for after the main story is finished. I also think screwing around in this game is more entertaining than GTA V. 

 

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SAS_Intruder
8 hours ago, BlondieandTuco said:

That's literally the part of the story, I don't know if you realize this but there's multiple ways Arthur dies at the end, and the bad honor ones aren't very nice. John is no longer a bad guy, because all the "bad guys" are being hunted down. What you just said about the Mary idea is absolutely ludicrous and you would realize that if you actually played the entire game, Arthur is the sole reason John survives, there is no Jack and Abigail surviving without Arthur either because Milton kidnaps Abigail who is then rescued by Arthur and John is left for dead by Dutch and the gang before being ambushed by pinkertons when he finds his way back. You're being incredibely picky over a story you seem to not have even partially grasped yet, Arthur is not a good guy, no matter how much honor you get throughout the game you realize the only time he starts to truly show how much he cares for the gang is when he starts dying. Him getting TB is what leads him to throw out Strauss as he's furious after the last loan shark mission, being where you rob a single drunkard dad and his son, the dad not having the money so you take it from his kid. Arthur is a criminal, he's not going to settle down in some nice apartment in Saint Dennis because as he says MULTIPLE times throughout the game. Loyalty is the only thing that's ever mattered to him, it's all he cares about, it's the only reason he didn't get on the train with Mary when he had the chance because he knew Dutch was going insane. Arthurs dead, his story sets up Johns story, in many ways the epilogue is literally the prologue of the first red dead. The ending probably would've been unique if maybe you didn't go digging through spoiler forums about the entire game.

 

 

You are assuming that I think how everything in the game should stay the same except for Arthur who survives? I didn't mean that.  But believing how there wouldn't be RDR1 if Arthur survived or how people don't change is wrong. They could have Arthur left for dead but he survives barely but everyone else thinks he died, he changes his name and his life. It wouldn't affect John's story in RDR1 at all.

 

Also, line between good and bad was very thin at the time. Many outlaws later became lawmen in other states and there were some lawmen who became outlaws. And some of them were both at the same time. Some like Frank James just decided to lead boring life after stopped being outlaws. But people did change same as they do now. 

 

I wouldn't have issue with Arthur dying if we get to end up playing a character that has motivation to continue exploring the world, getting into trouble etc. But we don't.  Playing as John is wrong on so many levels. Not just that he has zero motivation to do anything else than stay close to his family but we are playing the game as dead man walking. We already know he died, we know his story. What's the point of forcing players playing as John? It would be even better if they gave us an option to create our own guy and continue to play or maybe give us an option to play as few other gang members. Hell, I would even rather play as Pinkerton agent than John, even they would have more reason for leading  dangerous life than he does. 

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feckyerlife
8 hours ago, BlondieandTuco said:
8 hours ago, BlondieandTuco said:

 Arthur is not a good guy, no matter how much honor you get throughout the game you realize the only time he starts to truly show how much he cares for the gang is when he starts dying. Him getting TB is what leads him to throw out Strauss as he's furious after the last loan shark mission, being where you rob a single drunkard dad and his son, the dad not having the money so you take it from his kid. Arthur is a criminal, he's not going to settle down in some nice apartment in Saint Dennis because as he says MULTIPLE times throughout the game. Loyalty is the only thing that's ever mattered to him, it's all he cares about, it's the only reason he didn't get on the train with Mary when he had the chance because he knew Dutch was going insane. Arthurs dead, his story sets up Johns story, in many ways the epilogue is literally the prologue of the first red dead. The ending probably would've been unique if maybe you didn't go digging through spoiler forums about the entire game.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if i agree with your point of view. I would say Arthur is a gray guy, he's not good he's not bad, but does lean more to the side of bad, but he does that for family. His Journal is everything and if you actually read what he writes, he's speaking from the heart and he doesn't agree with a lot of the things they do and you can sense that  from the start of the game.  I think a lot of the stuff he says to the guys and girls in the gang is more for them, but not what he actually feels, a lot of guys do this in real life when around guy friends. Which is why you can do the mission and he says/acts one way, then you read about it and you find out he actually thought what they were doing was stupid and crazy.  The gang is his family and he would do anything for his family, but it doesn't mean he agrees with everything they've done, i think you are losing that point. 

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BlondieandTuco
1 hour ago, feckyerlife said:

I'm not sure if i agree with your point of view. I would say Arthur is a gray guy, he's not good he's not bad, but does lean more to the side of bad, but he does that for family. His Journal is everything and if you actually read what he writes, he's speaking from the heart and he doesn't agree with a lot of the things they do and you can sense that  from the start of the game.  I think a lot of the stuff he says to the guys and girls in the gang is more for them, but not what he actually feels, a lot of guys do this in real life when around guy friends. Which is why you can do the mission and he says/acts one way, then you read about it and you find out he actually thought what they were doing was stupid and crazy.  The gang is his family and he would do anything for his family, but it doesn't mean he agrees with everything they've done, i think you are losing that point. 

Like Mary tells him he's an bad man with a heart of gold, there's something good inside. Arthur and John had basically the same life, both young boys looking for some meaning in life getting picked up by Dutch and Hosea and being raised with them as father figures. Arthurs journal is one of the most compelling factors, but not agreeing with a crime doesn't change the fact that he participated in it, he knows he's killed innocent people to help his gang and by the end of the game he's constantly asking himself if Dutch's teaching on life was truth or just a lie to get his gang together.

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