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DGSimo

RDR2 General Story Discussion

Recommended Posts

Cutter De Blanc

That scene where John proposes to Abigail is so sad, knowing what happens to them

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Lock n' Stock

Having completed the game after doing in Micah Bell-End, I've got to say that the ending montage had me in tears, even more so than the original game. Seriously, this is was just an epic journey from beginning to end, one that I feel lived up to the hype in more ways than one. It's even sadder knowing that John's story is far from over.

 

And this song is just beautiful.

 

 

Edited by Lock n' Stock

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woggleman

I just went back to the Braithwait manor and looted Catherine's corpse. Can I sell that to a fence or does it have bigger significance? 

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HopalongCasidy
10 minutes ago, woggleman said:

I just went back to the Braithwait manor and looted Catherine's corpse. Can I sell that to a fence or does it have bigger significance? 

Think you can sell it, but there’s a gold bar east of the corpse

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Dangerous and sad

Breaks my heart know that we know how the gang fell apart. Ever notice all the main gunslingers(not wastemen like molly and swanson) are all dead except sadie and charles. Looking at the original artwork of the 7 gang members walking side by side. Only one lives... :(

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Sentinel Driver

Why doesn't Arthur spit on Micah during their fight?

try to give him that tb sh*t

maybe Arthur has his morals, but TB would only be right for a rat like Micah

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oCrapaCreeper
1 minute ago, Sentinel Driver said:

Why doesn't Arthur spit on Micah during their fight?

try to give him that tb sh*t

maybe Arthur has his morals, but TB would only be right for a rat like Micah

TBH if I was Arthur I would have just coughed on everyone I wanted to see dead.

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Sentinel Driver
1 minute ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

TBH if I was Arthur I would have just coughed on everyone I wanted to see dead.

So that's Micah

I doubt Arthur would want such a horrible fate on everyone else. He was on good terms with most of the people in the camp. He grew up with them. But Micah is a new recruit and Arthur never really liked him

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Guest
13 minutes ago, Sentinel Driver said:

Why doesn't Arthur spit on Micah during their fight?

try to give him that tb sh*t

maybe Arthur has his morals, but TB would only be right for a rat like Micah

 

He could have, but that wouldn't work, storywise. Micah is a character who could be killed without compromising the RDR story. Dutch has to survive, John has to survive. Arthur has no role in RDR, so his story had to end. His story gives John's character more strength, and so has Micah. John had to have someone to kill in revenging Arthur. 

Would Arthur have given Micah TB, the story would have ended and started too hollow, me thinks. 

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Jabalous

I think the weakest point in the story was Chapter 5. The idea of going on a self-exile to lay low until heat dies off is smart, but I didn't like how the gang got involved in a revolution and basically played a major role in a war. It's parallel to the Nuevo Paraiso chapter of Redemption when Marston had to play sides to achieve his goal, which was also the weakest part of the story for me at that time. I don't have an alternative story to propose, but it could've been written such that the gang doesn't even interact with any of the island's politics, including Fussar who we first saw at Bronte's party. A different story could've been told in an island different to Guarma, merely focusing on survival-based gameplay until they find their way back to America. Or imagine if the ship they were riding headed to Australia instead and we ended up building relationships with some outlaws there, drawing inspiration from The Proposition

Edited by Jabalous

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Coranub

I`m surprised the rest of the camp didn't get infected with Tuberculosis by the end of the game. Considering how Tb spreads from one person to another.

 

" TB bacteria are spread through the air from one person to another. The TB bacteria are put into the air when a person with TB disease of the lungs or throat coughs, speaks, or sings. People nearby may breathe in these bacteria and become infected." https://www.cdc.gov/tb/topic/basics/howtbspreads.htm

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Jason

I think the reasoning behind Chapter 5 was that they needed to get Arthur, Micah and Dutch out of their element for a brief time. It'd allow them to put a magnifying class over Dutch's descent into paranoia/madness, Micah getting in Dutch's ear and Arthur's growing disillusion with Dutch. Having them live off the land till they can make or find a boat would have made more sense and be more believable but some sort of conflict where they had to make deals to get off the island would allow them to really put the key parts of the rest of the story (Dutch's paranoia/brutality, Arthur's disillusion etc) on a pedestal and setup Chapter 6. That's my thinking anyway.

 

I would agree that it's the weakest of the six Chapter's if only because it removes one of the main reasons why RDR2's story was so good - the ensemble. It was also kinda jarring in the way it started to remove gameplay elements too, the final camp becomes nothing more than a place to sleep and your last chance to craft the satchels.

 

Personally an issue I had with the story was the introduction of new characters in Chapter 6. The story of Dutch using Eagle Flies allowed Arthur to see that Dutch really just used people for his own gain makes sense and works, but adding a new cast of characters meant they had to take the time to introduce them properly and it slowed down Chapter 6's pacing quite a bit towards the middle, making Chapter 6 feel probably a bit too long.

 

Not that I have ideas on exactly how they would do this but if I could make changes it would be to extend Chapter 3 a little bit, maybe 2-3 more big missions that setup the two families figuring out Dutch and Hosea's plan a bit more. Also I'd trim Chapter 6 some what, I'm not sure if I'd outright cut the Native American story but characters like Bill and Javier were underutilised quite a bit in Chapter 6. I also feel like at least maybe Javier would have sided with Arthur over Micah. Oh, and two or three more big heists littered throughout the story for funzies.

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Eastern Outlaw

I'd like to say that the theme of RDR2's storyline is change

 

Dutch's descent into insanity was covered very well in this game; constantly attempting the same sh*t to no avail. "Just one more score, Arthur. ONE. MORE. SCORE."

And it was most likely fear that made him this way. The fear of losing anything else after the loss of Hosea. With their constant disagreements with one another, the gang was steadily shifting into two halves. That really hurt Dutch. He even says this to Arthur numerous times, clarifying that keeping the gang together is the only thing that matters to him, but it breaks his heart to have Arthur doubting him. Notice that with just the simple act of just standing in Dutch's corner, even a sh*t stain like Micah gained Dutch's affection. While he continued to tell everyone to keep faith and stay strong, to me, it seemed like he was mainly saying it to himself. He saw that the family he led was falling apart, all because of decisions that he made. 

 

Whenever John talked about Dutch in Redemption, he seemed to be set on the opinion that Dutch is a bad person overall, even after making it clear that Dutch saved his life, raised him, and gave him something to be a part of. Everyone saw Dutch's descent, but not everyone reacted the same. Javier and Bill for example remained loyal to Dutch, despite seeing the complete change in codes and ideals. From what I understand, John was closer to Dutch than either of them, but he was on the fence about turning his back on Dutch when Arthur spoke to him about it. That led to an interesting piece of dialogue between John and Arthur that really got me thinking about this stuff

John: "What about loyalty?"

Arthur: "Be loyal to what matters."

Up to that point in the story, the gang was all that matters, but perspectives started to change

Being a father changed John 

Being on the brink of death changed Arthur

Losing his best friend and seeing his gang beginning to die changed Dutch

 

Just thoughts I wanted to put out there 

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Alexlecj

I like that the O'Driscolls are more than pack fodder in this game.

 

Usually, rivals in R* stories are treated as such (particularly Angels of Death in TLAD and Los Santos Lost Chapter in GTA V). Sometimes, while losing to the main character at every chance, they gain a questionable advantage (Ballas in GTA SA).

 

I think they did the O'Driscolls some justice. Of course, we wiped them from the map by the end of the game, but they were good and decent rivals. They had a smart and charismatic leader in Colm, and knew how to hit the gang or the protagonist.

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Guest

Has anyone seen this house in Story Mode before? I found it in between Rhodes and Bolger Glade while hunting, after finishing the epilogues. Went back a save with Arthur and couldn't find it anywhere. It's for sale and you can go inside to have a look. It's brand new exterior and doesn't have an interior. House for sale for Online? 

 

eLLCs8R.jpg

Edited by Guest

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Jason
Just now, McGhee said:

Has anyone seen this house in Story Mode before? I found it in between Rhodes and Bolder Glade while hunting, after finishing the epilogues. Went back a save with Arthur and couldn't find it anywhere.

There's a few of them around I believe in the Epilogue map, most likely RDO houses.

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DEADWOODZ
19 minutes ago, McGhee said:

Has anyone seen this house in Story Mode before? I found it in between Rhodes and Bolder Glade while hunting, after finishing the epilogues. Went back a save with Arthur and couldn't find it anywhere.

 

eLLCs8R.jpg

I've seen a few yeah, pretty interesting how they are only after the epilogue. No doubt for online purchases...  

Edited by DEADWOODZ

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Guest
3 minutes ago, Jason said:

There's a few of them around I believe in the Epilogue map, most likely RDO houses.

 

Lol, thanks for quoting my typo. :D  

 

Anyway, it looks decent. All new wood and so. Couldn't check out the outhouse, though.

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Jason

Man, the Downes mission means diddly squat to you on your first playthrough but on your second playthrough the signs are all there that it wasn't an ordinary mission.

 

It's one of only two debtor missions that's mandatory, the first being the one that introduces you to them, the mission is thrown at you by surprise (the mission is triggered by reading Mary's letter, a red herring technique the game uses often to hide important missions), Downes coughs blood on you that Arthur wipes off, his wife tells you he's sick, you leave without the debt and then you have a sombre ride back with some eerie music and then on the final cutscene before you regain control Arthur wipes his face again.

 

Generally the way open world games introduce side content to you is to have one mandatory mission associated to that side activity that ends with "oh and you can do/find more of these around the place", there's two mandatory debtor missions in RDR2 but it's a complete twist on that whole thing where they actually make one of those missions critical to the plot.

 

The sombre ride back to camp sure as hell feels awful knowing what just happened I tell ya that.

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Jabalous

"It's us, or him. I figure it might as well be him" - Dutch after feeding Bronte to an alligator

"It's you, or me. The way I see it, might as well be you" - Marston confronting Javier in Nuevo Paraiso

 

Like father, like son. 

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JC_HUMBLE

Sorry for my ignorance but where can I play blackjack I haven't seen the activity in any saloon that I have been.

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StuntCurry707
17 minutes ago, Shinola Gamer said:

Sorry for my ignorance but where can I play blackjack I haven't seen the activity in any saloon that I have been.

Rhodes saloon

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Arthur Bell
On 11/7/2018 at 2:52 PM, NikosUncle said:

Anyone feel good during the mission with John building his house?

It's the only game I've played that motivated me to building my own house someday. I really want to hand build it with a few friends, and it wouldn't be complete without our drunk elder barking commands. No sarcasm here, that's my life dream.

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phillipshead
On 11/6/2018 at 5:37 PM, Shinola Gamer said:

Has anybody found Ned Luke's cameo, I know Steven Ogg plays a character in the epilogue...

Steven Ogg is not in RDR2.  That isn't him in the epilogue

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Nulla Lex Ink.

So I finished my second playthrough yesterday morning (well, the part you play as Arthur), and I realized something that kinda took me aback a bit when I finally noticed it. Don't get me wrong, I love this game and will be playing it for a very long time and see many replays in my future, but I was kinda let down when I had this realization. Turns out, you hardly ever get help from more than 2-4 other people in missions, and when you do, it's usually very brief moments.

 

Examples:

-"Old Friends" has a group consisting of Dutch, Bill, Javier, Lenny and Micah ride with you to attack the O'Driscoll camp. Lenny and Javier, however, are on lookout and only ride into the camp after the shooting is over with.

-In the beginning of "Who the Hell is Leviticus Cornwall?" Dutch takes Arthur, Charles, Micah, Lenny, and Javier with him to rob Cornwall's train, where they meet Bill who is setting up the explosives. They end up not exploding, so Arthur, Lenny and Javier try to jump on the train, but only Arthur and Lenny land. The train does eventually get stopped, and after most of the men have been taken care of by Arthur and Lenny, the rest of the group arrives.

-In "Banking, The Old American Art," you go into the bank with a crew of eight and there's a shootout with the Pinkertons that lasts about two minutes before you have to find another way out, and after that point the gang is slowly whittled down (John is arrested, Lenny dies and Charles causes a distraction so Dutch and the rest can get away). In fairness, you do have a lot helping you at this point, but it's a very brief time.

-In Guarma you're only ever helped by Dutch, Micah, Bill and Hercule since Javier is out of commission the whole chapter.

-"Fleeting Joy" sees only Sadie and Bill actively fight back against the Pinkertons with Arthur. One certain character not fighting back makes sense, but the lack of support from the other guns that were present is a bit odd.

-"Favored Sons" has Arthur helped out by Dutch, Eagle Flies, Paytah and three other braves for the first shootout, and that's pretty awesome. Unfortunately though, the braves prove to be cannon fodder, Paytah is injured and Eagle Flies gets captured, which results in most of the mission being played with Dutch as your only ally.

-In the mission "My Last Boy," Dutch, Sadie, John, Bill, Javier and Charles ride with you to the oil field, then upon arrival Dutch takes some with him to go at another angle, leaving you with Sadie and Charles. You're joined by a few braves, but a couple of them will be killed by the time you get to the bottom of the hill. As you go through the place, you pick up Eagle Flies and Paytah. When you finally regroup with Dutch and the rest, it's for a very, very brief shootout with the remaining soldiers.

-During "Our Best Selves," a group of nine rides to do the job, though the train doesn't stop as Dutch anticipated it would. For some reason, instead of all of them riding to jump onto the train, only Cleet, Sadie and John do. Now, it ended up being useful, since John and Arthur gotta jump off at one point, but there was no way they could have known that would be necessary. Anyways, Bill jumps on, but then John is shot off, and the group of Dutch, Javier, Micah and Joe stay behind to get John (though I guess it makes sense, since they'd presumably be fighting some military). Also, it kinda sucks that Sadie and Cleet never help you fight through the train. Which actually doesn't make any sense, because they run ahead of you, so shouldn't they have been the first to encounter the men?

-Near the end of "Red Dead Redemption," the Pinkertons ambush the camp during a stand off. Dutch, Micah, Cleet, Joe, Bill and Javier stay and shoot back for about fifteen seconds before they run off. It makes sense that the guys wouldn't necessarily be "on your side" in that moment, but what gets me is how the Pinkertons let the bigger group of men (which includes the leader of the gang) escape and focus only on John and Arthur. If they had to make it a brief moment, they really should have had John and Arthur be the first to run off.

 

The most egregious example, however, has to be the Chapter 4 mission "Horsemen, Apocalypses," when the gang's hideout is actually attacked. Now, the first time I played I didn't notice this because I was so swept up into what was going on. But upon replaying, I noticed that Micah, Lenny, Bill and Javier are nowhere to be found, and it's never addressed. They're walking around the camp afterwards and you can get dialogue with them talking about what happened, but no one ever says why they weren't present. Uncle isn't around either, though he's not really a combatant member outside of a couple of missions anyways, but his absence is very noticeable. Hosea also doesn't seem to help much, but that makes sense because he's upstairs with the non combatants for protection purposes after he comes into the house. I think he and Miss Grimshaw might have shot back for a bit since you can see them armed outside before they come in, and I think you can see Karen firing at them on the back deck for a little bit, but other than that it's just Arthur, Dutch, John, Charles and later Sadie doing all the fighting.

 

Seems like most of the time you have more than two to four ally NPCs, it's just for the riding sequences or they end up being cannon fodder, as in the case of the braves and that one time in Guarma when you and the other prisoners are running away and some get killed. I also dislike how a couple of missions which should call for more guns have only two people going, like clearing out a gang hideout. "Preaching Forgiveness as He Went" and "That's Murfree Country" stand out in particular. I don't have too many complaints about the robberies though, since the size of the groups for them make sense. Something like a passenger train, a small bank and coaches really don't need crews bigger than three or four, and I guess by the same logic most of these make sense since it usually didn't go according to plan, but it still irked me slightly.

 

Also, while I'm at it, I hate that Sean never really got to tag along for a big job (other than the passenger train, which was pretty small all things considered), Kieran never got to participate in anything after joining, and Pearson never handled a gun despite apparently having experience doing so.

 

All that being said, the awesomeness of "Blood Feuds, Ancient and Modern" cancels out all of my gripes with those :) Or maybe it makes it worse, since that shows they were capable of doing it in all the others too, haha. Shame that there wasn't at least one mission where all of the gang's gun fighters participated, including ones like Uncle, Karen, Pearson, Kieran and even Miss Grimshaw. Something like "Horsemen, Apocalypses" but earlier on. I was really hoping for one where all the main gunmen participated and I got my hopes up for it after the end of the first gameplay trailer showed eleven people riding away with a wanted level (Eleven corresponding to the amount of people we knew to be capable of fighting - Arthur, Dutch, Hosea, John, Bill, Javier, Micah, Lenny, Sadie, Sean and Charles). Upon rewatching it after playing the game I realized the four trailing them were lawmen, so that's my bad, but still, it would have been great.

 

Apologies if this wasn't the right place to put this. I can't seem to find the B&M thread, so I thought this was the next best place to talk about this. Also sorry if it seems kinda all over the place, it's real late and I'm about to go to bed, so there may be some errors here and there.

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