...::[The Footy Desk]::... (Part 2)

[TheSantader25]

Spurs better win for the memes. Kane and Spurs winning their first trophy at the same time is hilarious.

[Eutyphro]

No Ugarte, no Garnacho, no Heung-Min Son, strange stuff. That makes it hard for either to play their best. But leave it to Shaw to make an error to open the score. Makes sense that with these weak teams not playing in their best formation an error has to be that which leads to a goal. Neither of them have the capacity to play well enough to really create good attacks. All in all a very weak game.

Edited May 21 by Eutyphro

[wqx]

This match is awfu Quality awful, fan support awful everything just awful.

[Jason]

No Ugarte can probably be explained by wanting to get Bruno, Mount and Amad on the same pitch and Casemiro has been good recently plus has experience in games like this. No Garnacho is no surprise, he has his moments and could provide something off the bench but he's not shown anything to warrant starting. As for Spurs and Son, his legs are going and it's clearly Ange wanted to be more defensively sound so he started Richalison over him to run his socks off for 60 minutes.

 

The goal is a perfect description of our season though. Poor communication resulting in a calamity of errors. It's perfectly clear that the team absolutely zero belief in Onana, and Onana's communication seems dire in general. Likewise up top they have no trust in Hojlund on the ball.

[TheSantader25]

It was a final full of errors. But i feel like spurs wanted it a bit more. Some of the players at United are really useless. I haven't watched much of United but Hojlund was completely lost and contributed nothing in this game.

Edited May 21 by TheSantader25

[Jason]

I think Amorim will be a really good manager but it's glaringly obvious that he's not a good fit for United. He has a specific formation and a way of playing in a squad, in a club, that have never been suited to how he wants to play. If he stays we're giving him £100m+ and getting a few players in that he wants for 343 in when in six months his domestic form has been terrible. We're asking for a miracle that a pre-season and 4-5 players in will transform that into a team that can get into the CL.

 

Best for all parties if he leaves for me, not sure if he will, I think there's a higher chance of him resigning than the owners sacking him honestly but yea. It's simply not working.

[Eutyphro]

I also have serious doubts about the 343. Certain defenders like de Ligt and Lisandro Martinez imo don't thrive in this system.

 

I'm glad Son won a prize. Son has been the most underrated player of the past decade. If he'd been Brazilian he would've had a glorious career at Real Madrid or Barca.

Edited May 21 by Eutyphro

[Jason]

In general I'm just completely f*cking done with the playing out of the back possession based football. It's less effective in the Premier League than it ever has been and it's so difficult to find players who are genuinely good enough to do it in todays game with the insanely high pressing every team can do.

[Eutyphro]

It's difficult to find players capable of it, but the top two finishing sides Liverpool and Arsenal both have a player such as van Dijk and Saliba that plays that way. The team that has completely dominated the PL in recent years Man City also plays with ball playing defenders and wants to be dominant in possession. Hoofing it long is not a winning strategy sadly.

Edited May 21 by Eutyphro

[Jason]

The issue is, IMO, that what we be great ball playing defenders 10-15 years ago are now the standard ball playing defenders. On top of that where as only the best teams with specific managers could maintain an effective high press, now it's standard.

 

To play a system that revolves around ball playing defenders in the PL means you need to find three elite ball playing centrebacks and that's just bloody difficult.

[Eutyphro]

I think United has to be humble and stick with Amorim. If they don't want a back 3 then they should not have appointed him. Now that he is there he deserves a fair shot and more time.

[smokeless6]

What an incredible final, and by incredible I mean lousy. Ange said he always wins in his second season, and took a lot of flak for it as the season fell apart. But he was right, and must be feeling a bit of satisfaction today. Congrats to Spurs, who were the least bad of the teams on the pitch yesterday. Disaster for United, who really needed this.

 

Happy for Son, who seemed to have the weight of the world lifted in the post-match scenes. Surprised he didn't start, but he didn't sulk.

 

How many players and staff involved in this match will be gone come the start of next season? Do Spurs give Postecoglu another year? This is how ten Hag stuck around too long.

[TonyRyodan]

Why is Antony playing good now?

[Jason]

4 minutes ago, TonyRyodan said:

Why is Antony playing good now?

 

Easy to say he's a great player and United ruined him but the truth was it was a bit of both.

 

He, like a lot of United's players, aren't as bad as they perform at United however it's also true that Antony was simply no where near good enough in the Prem. He massively struggled to beat the typical PL fullback for pace/strength and no one fell for his tricks. He had two and a half years and he was awful, even ETH ran out of patience with him and he tried desperately to play him into form for several months.

 

5 hours ago, smokeless6 said:

Do Spurs give Postecoglu another year? This is how ten Hag stuck around too long.

 

That's the headache for Levy. I was suspecting that he'd go in a sort of "we both agree it's for the best" type move (even if Ange wanted to say) but Ange has publicly said he wants to continue, so they might have to fire him.

 

Amorim looks set to stay but while the circumstances are a bit different to Ange and ETH, it's the same problem in that we could give him 100-200m to spend, get some players out, some players in, and two or three months into the season be in the same position and then all of a sudden you're sacking someone who played 343 and hiring someone who is most likely going to play some form of four at the back and now you have six centrebacks, wingbacks and an abundance of 10's.

 

The hope is that a full pre-season, his own players in and now the time midweek to work on everything will transform the team from literal relegation fodder to a team that can get into the CL next season. It's a tall ask.

[Eutyphro]

18 minutes ago, TonyRyodan said:

Why is Antony playing good now?

Cause maybe Antony is a good player but completely unsuited to the PL.

[TonyRyodan]

Idk maybe his departure made him take his career more seriously

[Jason]

If you read football social media or r/soccer you'd think each league is the same but in reality it's not. The Prem is incredibly physical, fullbacks here prioritise speed and strength over technical skill or ability on the ball, Kyle Walker is perhaps the most well known example of it. If you're a winger you need have something extra about you, physicality in terms of either strength to go side by side and hold them off or a real quick turn of pace. Either that or or the ability to pull of some magic. Antony is clearly a good player, he's showing that at Betis, but he doesn't have the physical traits to suit being a PL winger and while he's a good player he's not got the rare gift of being able to beat players through pulling off a bit of magic.

 

There's very few small, weak and slow players who do well in the Prem. Mata is perhaps the best example but his prime in the league was just before the physicality and speed in the league was dialled up with the arrival of Pep and Klopp and the worldwide games general adoption of the high press. Even he struggled in his later years at United.

 

The best winger in the league is Salah by a mile, he's got a very quick turn of pace but more importantly he's strong. He holds off fullbacks and even centrebacks all the time so he can turn and get his shot way. Antony would get shrugged off like he's not even there.

[TonyRyodan]

I watch premier league when I'm at my father-in-law's house, he likes it because according to him "everyone runs a lot''  

[Jason]

The Premier League's success in terms of worldwide appeal is largely built on it. It's fast paced, more physical, more end to end and direct. We're actually having a bit of a crisis at the moment in England cause fans and even pundits are growing increasingly tired of their teams playing out from the back, often by managers with their own agenda (trying to make themselves look good) rather than the clubs benefit. 

[TheSantader25]

Eh sure Antony's set of skills don't suit the prem much but I'd say a lot of times i've seen south american players unable to show their true skills in the prem and I think the reason can also be attributed to their mental well being. That weather and overall England's vibe doesn't really suit a lot of them. There are people who break this trend but more often than not I see south americans struggle in the prem.

[Jason]

Yea that could and for likely many is part of the reason for sure. We've not had many great South American players in the Premier League, they tend to prefer Spain.

[smokeless6]

On 5/22/2025 at 1:19 PM, Jason said:

Amorim looks set to stay but while the circumstances are a bit different to Ange and ETH, it's the same problem in that we could give him 100-200m to spend, get some players out, some players in, and two or three months into the season be in the same position and then all of a sudden you're sacking someone who played 343 and hiring someone who is most likely going to play some form of four at the back and now you have six centrebacks, wingbacks and an abundance of 10's.

 

I think they must keep him, for a number of reasons. Now is not the time to start over. And I was coming to make the same point you just did, and that I had made at the time of his appointment, about how the squad must be shaped to suit the system, if you are going to employ a manager so rigid in his ideas, with little to no tactical flexibility. At the time of the appointment I made a post giving my opinion of how so few current United players were suited to the new system. I do recall you cobbled together an XI to fill the positions, and I didn't respond as frankly I just couldn't agree with most of those, and I think that's how it played out, that United this year were duct-taped together, round pegs in square holes and I'm not surprised they struggled to get results this season. They need nearly a complete overhaul, especially as they will look to sell a few players that were possible solutions, like Amad Diallo.

 

What you said is spot on, that this recruitment will begin, and if they then change managers again they will find themselves once again driving round pegs in to square holes. They need to start getting it right far more often, United's recruitment over the past five (or more) years has been poor. That has to change.

 

And I think they should look to sell Fernandes. Sure, he's United's best player by a mile, but he's 30 and it makes more sense to me to move him on than have him be the best player on a rebuilding squad, and use those funds to bring in someone younger and less expensive (wages).

 

It's a vital summer for the team. Let's see how they manage to navigate it all.

[Jason]

If Bruno wants to go I wouldn't be mad, I don't think any United fan would be. I wouldn't want him to be forced out for money reasons though. He's an extremely fit player who is always available, I think he could still perform at this level for another two or three seasons comfortably. But if he's had enough then if we can get £100m+ for a 30 year old then I wouldn't blame him and we'd take that fee I think.

 

In another era at this club he'd have won bucket loads and have gotten the acclaim he deserves on the world stage.

[TheSantader25]

Man It's not just Antony. McTominay was really good for napoli this season. A lot of players seem to find themselves when they leave United these says.

 

In his case, I don't think Mctominay is some genius midfielder but i always rated him as a box to box. I would certainly pick him over a lot of the options United has now in that position. I know United fans don't rate him but i think they are wrong. 

Edited May 24 by TheSantader25

[Eutyphro]

Yeah, cause actually Mctominay performed highly as a sub under ten Hag as well and is flourishing under Conte. Lukaku is also a former Man U player, don't forget. I remember arguing Man U needed Conte, but I guess Conte is not crazy enough to ruin his career there.

[OliRow]

12 hours ago, Jason said:

If Bruno wants to go I wouldn't be mad, I don't think any United fan would be. I wouldn't want him to be forced out for money reasons though. He's an extremely fit player who is always available, I think he could still perform at this level for another two or three seasons comfortably. But if he's had enough then if we can get £100m+ for a 30 year old then I wouldn't blame him and we'd take that fee I think.

 

In another era at this club he'd have won bucket loads and have gotten the acclaim he deserves on the world stage.

I dread to think how badly we’d spend that £100m which is why I wouldn’t even consider getting rid

[Jason]

In an ideal world we kept McT, but the story is we had (a rough statement in it's self) to sell Casemiro or McT and we couldn't find a buyer for Caemiro.

 

He's long been a good goal scoring midfielder and he's shining at Napoli but he did have major weaknesses at United in deeper roles which is where he played for us cause ultimately he wasn't starting over Bruno in a more advanced role.

 

It's turned out to be an amazing career move for him, he's found a team and a manager perfect for him.

[smokeless6]

Yes, McTominay has been a huge hit in Italy, winning league MVP, which is amazing. He has a nickname "McFratm" which means McBro essentially. 12 goals and a league title. Not bad at all. The supporters love him. It's been changing the past couple of years, but for a long time it seemed English players were reluctant to go to a different country, but sometimes that's exactly what is needed. It sure paid off for him. But like Jason said he was also getting it done for United, bagging goals, but didn't play enough. Congrats to Napoli for their title. It was a good season in Serie A, a tight race down to the wire. And they won the league having lost Kvaratskhelia to PSG in January and Osimhen was banished to Turkey. Their two best players and they still pulled it off. Good job by Conte who isn't everyone's cup of tea, but when it works, it works. He'll probably be sacked next season, but hey, you take what you can get.

Edited May 24 by smokeless6

[Jason]

Amorim staying for sure then, and has told Garnacho to find a new club.

 

He's lacking a lot of quality in the final third Garnacho but he can still be a great player, but he needs to sort his entourage out for sure. They don't help him at all. I do think if he gets his head down and work on his game he'll be a very good signing for a lot of good clubs, but I do think it's a move that suits both parties.

[smokeless6]

Sir Jim is looking at every academy product as someone to move on, because the clubs see this as pure profit with no transfer fee paid to acquire the player. I think none of them are safe.

 

I've been hearing some good news, that Florian Wirtz is going to sign for Liverpool. I think he's perfect, and a superstar in waiting, if not there already. I thought there would be zero chance, but that's what the rumors suggest. What a coup to grab him out from under Bayern who were set on signing him. Not sure how the Slot machine would deploy him, but that is for the future. Let's get him signed up. I hope I haven't spoken too soon, because now I've got my hopes up