...::[The Footy Desk]::... (Part 2)

[Eutyphro]

I do think that they were capable of winning this tie. In the first leg they dominated large parts of the game but did not take their chances. In terms of xg they were superior.

 

I am starting to agree with Santander that in the current setup the team playing a home tie in the second leg could very well have an advantage.

[TheSantader25]

I've barely ever seen refs being punished for mistakes or even providing any explanation for their decisions by the leagues or associations. They just protect them. Nothing else.

[Jason]

Odegaard's a very good player but has routinely failed to show up in the big games and post-injury he has been awful - something even Arsenal fan seem to agree on.

 

Bruno meanwhile has consistently performed with amazing numbers in an extremely consistent team. The amount of times he's single handedly carried United out of the dumps in the past few years is insane. His statistics back all this up, he's one of the best chance creators in world football while also proving double figures in goals. Put him in a well performing team and he'd be widely considered one of the best attacking midfielders in the world without any argument.

 

3 minutes ago, smokeless6 said:

Arteta has done a good job considering everything is against them, according to him. Officials, the ball, the pitch, injuries, humidity, the wind, gravity and everything else. If not for that, they would have won. The best team lost, he says. It all feels so unfair.

 

He's Mourinho without the charm or the success.

 

Big reasons why they're not able to properly challenge are his fault and not a case of him simply doing the best with he's been given. He'll get a striker this summer and if it's the same old story again I would think from an Arsenal PoV that it's time to go. He's done a really good job to get them back playing well and competing with the top clubs and in Europe but it's starting to look like he's taken them as far as he can. I think he's in danger of becoming one of those managers, and it was probably the case last night, where the real top managers look over and think he's very beatable, which in large part is cause he's easily rattled. I don't think his coaching staff help with that either, up and down, screaming and shouting, the set piece coach playing manager etc. It all adds up, Arteta's gotten better this season with it in fairness to him but their bench doesn't inspire calmness and composure that's for sure.

[Eutyphro]

Bashing Arteta when he has made Arsenal far better than they were when he started, far more consistent, and he took them to the semi final of a CL and completely dominated PSG on xg is easy, but not fair. They also destroyed Madrid. It's scoreboard level reasoning to bash Arsenal/Arteta right now.

 

As for Bruno Fernandes, he's a great player, but I prefer a player like Odegaard that is more possession oriented. If we look at the xg of both ties then we can conclude Arsenal created plenty chances, but their attackers failed to take these chances. The issue is not their midfield but the capacity of their attackers to actually score. That's why they need to sign Isak preferably, or any other actual top striker could do.

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

Bashing Arteta when he has made Arsenal far better than they were when he started, far more consistent, and he took them to the semi final of a CL and completely dominated PSG on xg is easy, but not fair. They also destroyed Madrid. It's scoreboard level reasoning to bash Arsenal/Arteta right now.

 

He's done a great job but sometimes a manager can only take a team so far.

 

2 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

If we look at the xg of both ties then we can conclude Arsenal created plenty chances, but their attackers failed to take these chances. 

 

Which is basically United and Arsenal's number one problem and has been for years.

 

Chances created last season:

 

 

This season:

 

 

Saka and Odegaard aren't in the top 5 for this season (Odegaard is 9th) mainly due to long injuries. We saw it last night too, Saka put some good balls in the box but no one was there. That's one area where Odegaard could improve, his goal scoring, but I wouldn't pin that all on him by any means. They absolutely need a striker and a left winger this summer.

 

Also keeping Saka fit is massive for them cause for me he's comfortably their best player.

[Eutyphro]

It reminds me that Sergio Ramos has a higher career goal per game ratio than Iniesta, and Gareth Bale has a better assist per game career ratio than Iniesta. Stats don't account for everything, and top level midfielders set up attacks in an earlier stage than the actual chance creation so to speak. What they do is not always easily put into numbers. I think Odegaard is an incredible player, but I think he's not been in a team with the world best attacking players.

Edited May 8 by Eutyphro

[Jason]

Bruno's in a worse team with better stats, and has performed in big games more often.

 

Like I said, great player having a poor season but not on the level of Fernandes.

[Eutyphro]

Bruno's style is a bit more high risk than Odegaard's. He goes for risky shots and passes much more often. Without Bruno United might have been close to relegation though, so I understand the admiration for his contributions. I fundamentally agree that Man U is in a similar position when it comes to ineffective forwards though yeah. Garnacho is still very immature and wasteful and Hojlund is kind of a flop. Both Man U and Arsenal should go for good left wing players like Nico Williams or a striker like Isak.

 

I understand the criticism of Arteta considering his post match comments are a bit delusional and not so humble, but the criticism of Odegaard by the fans I don't get. Many of it seems to be coming from opposing side fans that are jealous of a player like Odegaard and are trolling or from ignoramuses.

Edited May 8 by Eutyphro

[smokeless6]

3 hours ago, Eutyphro said:

In terms of xg they were superior.

 

True, and I like analytics as much as anyone. But the point is that moaning about it isn't a good look for the manager. And after every loss he points at some mitigating factor. I made up the gravity bit

 

And whilst xG is a useful tool, showing which teams created the best chances, you still have to put them away. Imagine if a basketball coach said well, we got to the foul line way more so we should have won, despite the team missing more than half of those free throws. Were they really the 'better team'? It makes for good debate, but it should be left to others, not for Arteta to continually point out in the pressers how hard done they've been. Not a good look in my view. He'd be better off saying we weren't good enough, even if he doesn't believe that. That we must be better, try harder, take our chances, this sort of thing. I don't know, but his constant moaning rubs me the wrong way.

Edited May 8 by smokeless6

[Jason]

Maybe others are jealous of a player like Odegaard, I am not my self. I was speaking to an Arsenal fan my self the other night who flat out agreed with me that he's been poor since coming back from injury.

 

But yea Arsenal do need a striker above all else, but I do think a left winger too. I thought Martinelli would be a great player a few years ago but he hasn't kicked on at all, where as Saka's becoming world class. Trossard's a good player but he's not elite and he's getting on, so they need a left winger too most likely.

 

As for our attack we need new "wide 10" if this is the system we're going with and a striker, both a massive priority and it seems like Cunha and Delap will be what we go for which should be good options given our financial constraints as we need to buy in other positions too. Beyond that another midfielder probably and definitely a keeper, probably a centreback (dunno if we'll get one) and definitely wingbacks.

[Eutyphro]

5 minutes ago, smokeless6 said:

 

True, and I like analytics as much as anyone. But the point is that moaning about it isn't a good look for the manager. And after every loss he points at some mitigating factor. Gravity I made up

 

And whilst xG is a useful tool, showing which teams created the best chances, you still have to put them away. Imagine if a basketball coach said well, we got to the foul line way more so we should have won, despite the team missing more than half of those free throws. Were they really the 'better team'? It makes for good debate, but it should be left to others, not for Arteta to continually point out in the pressers how hard done they've been. Not a good look in my view. He'd be better off saying we weren't good enough, even if he doesn't believe that. That we must be better, try harder, take our chances, this sort of thing. I don't know, but his constant moaning rubs me the wrong way.

Yeah, that's fair and the edited version of my previous reply agrees with you here, cause Arteta in his post game emotion is not very realistic or humble in his comments, and to criticize him for that is fair to me.

 

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

Maybe others are jealous of a player like Odegaard, I am not my self. I was speaking to an Arsenal fan my self the other night who flat out agreed with me that he's been poor since coming back from injury.

 

But yea Arsenal do need a striker above all else, but I do think a left winger too. I thought Martinelli would be a great player a few years ago but he hasn't kicked on at all, where as Saka's becoming world class. Trossard's a good player but he's not elite and he's getting on, so they need a left winger too most likely.

 

As for our attack we need new "wide 10" if this is the system we're going with and a striker, both a massive priority and it seems like Cunha and Delap will be what we go for which should be good options given our financial constraints as we need to buy in other positions too. Beyond that another midfielder probably and definitely a keeper, probably a centreback (dunno if we'll get one) and definitely wingbacks.

When a team underperforms the captain and biggest players always get the criticism for it, so in that regard it is not surprising that Odegaard is criticized, but I think he isn't helped by playing in a team with Martinelli, who is not providing enough to be the starting winger of a top European side.

Edited May 8 by Eutyphro

[Jason]

Bit of a repeat of last week, Athletic started well, played well, even scored a goal this time, but then the game just went from them. Think they gassed out a bit as well.

 

Though credit to Amorim cause the subs changed the game at the right time, Amad and Mount were really good, the best 30 minutes of Mount's United career so far. Really really hope both can stay fit cause I think both can be great players for us.

[bananaking13]

On 5/7/2025 at 1:56 AM, Jason said:

The reason Arsenal didn't buy a striker this season when the whole world knew they needed one was because Arteta didn't think they needed one.

 

Losing Havertz and especially Saka for long stretches was rough, and Odeegard earlier in the season but honestly Odegaard has been flat this season, no where near a world class player like he's hyped up to be.

I didn't say that it's not Arteta's fault, I'm just pointing out that the club's recruitment in general sucks and that this is more than likely a problem within the club itself. 

If I were an Arsenal fan, I'd hope we get a new striker, a new midfield partner for Rice, and an actual left back who's old enough to register on gtaforums unlike Myles Lewis-Skelly

[OliRow]

10 hours ago, Jason said:

Bit of a repeat of last week, Athletic started well, played well, even scored a goal this time, but then the game just went from them. Think they gassed out a bit as well.

 

Though credit to Amorim cause the subs changed the game at the right time, Amad and Mount were really good, the best 30 minutes of Mount's United career so far. Really really hope both can stay fit cause I think both can be great players for us.

Amad is incredible. A genuine joy to watch, after Bruno he’s comfortably my favourite United player. Up the f*cking reds.

[smokeless6]

Congrats to United, and credit where it is due. They've had a poor season of course, but here they are in a European final. Maybe Amorin is a knockout specialist eh?

 

I'm too neutral on the final, and don't mind who wins it. Two teams who will be disappointed with their league position, but can add a trophy. Both will be desperate. Should be fun.

[TheSantader25]

Nice try by the ref but the white shirts are simply too sh*t this season even with the help. Nice domestic double. Lovely team to watch. Missed Balde so much. We would've been in the final if he was with us for inter. Unlucky.

Edited May 11 by TheSantader25

[Jason]

The unspoke thing among United fans recently, that is now starting to be said out loud, is that in the league Amorim has been a complete disaster and the idea that 4-5 new players and a pre-season will get us anywhere near top 4/5 is starting to look like asking for a miracle.

 

Like ETH this season I suspect he's gonna need a good start next season... and Champions League football.

 

[TheSantader25]

I'd say it's usually hard to measure teams when they don't have much to play for. Very hard to motivate players. Europa League is the most important thing. But obviously he'd need a strong start next season.

[OliRow]

5 hours ago, Jason said:

The unspoke thing among United fans recently, that is now starting to be said out loud, is that in the league Amorim has been a complete disaster and the idea that 4-5 new players and a pre-season will get us anywhere near top 4/5 is starting to look like asking for a miracle.

 

Like ETH this season I suspect he's gonna need a good start next season... and Champions League football.

 

I really like him in terms of how he talks in the media, no nonsense in dealing with players like Rashford etc, but I’m not sure how anybody can’t have concerns over the league performances. Being good in Europe is lovely and shows there is potential but the difference in performances in the league is staggering. 
 

Keeping Ten Hag purely off the FA cup win was a disaster. Should’ve gone on a high and a new manager had last summer to start work.

Edited May 11 by OliRow

[TonyRyodan]

Well Dude came, I hope everything goes well since apparently he deals well with Brazilians 

[Jason]

Possibly the greatest knockout cup manager in history, who thrives on creating a positive atmosphere and togetherness over rigid tactical setups. On paper he's a perfect match for international football.

 

Two major nations now who have went for a big name for the 2026 World Cup, England with Tuchel and Brazil with Ancelotti... I hope one of those works out well. 

[Ehrmantraut]

Real Madrid won at the death. All we need now is for the men in green to do their jobs.

[TheSantader25]

Domestic treble. In the beginning of the season after Madrid got Mbappe, people gave us zero chance to win a single trophy. Many thought Flick wouldn't be a good fit for this team. Yet every player has improved drastically under him.

 

But beside the trophies the most important thing he has done is that teams fear playing against us again. They hate dealing with us. They respect us again. We had lost that. He has created a great environment and fans love him. Finally a coach who knows what he's doing is at this club.

[Jason]

Lowkey think Flick might be the best manager in the world at the moment. His style of play is awesome and I think it's exactly what modern players want right now.

 

For a maybe(?) less controversial opinion, Yamal is the best 17 year old I've ever seen. He's looking like a once in a generation player.

 

If they can keep their financial f*ckery to a minimum and make some smart buys I can see Barca becoming a European force over the next few years. Depending on what they do this summer I may have them as CL favourites next year.

[TheSantader25]

If tek is gone we need a new keeper. I think this CL has once again proven how important a reliable keeper who can step up in big occasions is. 

 

If we sell Araujo who clearly doesn't fit the flick system for a good price we need a new CB. Other than that a good back up full back and one extra option in the attack to slowly replace Lewa and help rotate Raphinha more is needed. So basically 3 extra players. Very smart decisions should be made.

 

Yamal is fearless and improving rapidly. The only concern is how much he is playing yet you really can't bench him at all when he's playing this well. But at this rate even if he's not injured I don't know if he can last past 30. Maybe football has changed due to medicine improvement but players who play this much at this age don't have long careers.

Edited May 15 by TheSantader25

[Jason]

There's sadly no good solution to the playing too much problem a lot of players have but especially young players. They're important players and there's games to be played, what are clubs meant to do?

 

It's on the leagues and associations to stop inflating the fixture list but as we all know that's not going to happen. It's becoming increasingly inevitable IMO that there will be a strike from players one day I think. Might be years away still but if UEFA and Fifa keep taking the piss the players will take the power away from them with a strike.

 

It's a worry for players like Bellingham too, who is playing with tons of shoulder strapping every game cause he can't take any time off to get surgery for it. Not having proper and free movement of any limb is gonna limit you on the pitch and long term could cause serious issues. I do worry if we're seeing a generation of great young players today who are all gonna be physically in awful shape by their late 20's cause of overplaying and not having the time to properly deal with injuries.

[Jason]

What a season for domestic cup competitions in English football. Great moment for both Toon and Palace.

 

The game's not gone yet! 

[TheSantader25]

Bologna in Italy too. Now we need Spurs to win a trophy.

[Jason]

Has to be said though, one of the all time English referee bottle jobs to not give Henderson a red card. Absolutely stone wall red but they didn't want to "ruin" the game.

 

But from a Palace PoV you need a bit of luck to win a trophy and they got it, and otherwise deserved it.

[smokeless6]

So this will be a remarkable final. Two sides which barely avoided relegation, and might have been in a different year. 38 points I think is the traditional 'safe line' and both are on it it or one point above haha, but they will be thankful that the relegated sides were especially bad this season, or it could have all ended very differently. Has there ever been a Championship side competing in a European competition? We came pretty close here.

 

My question to all of you is this... which of these two sides needs victory more? Both are desperate. Spurs for the Silverware, United for the money.

 

I'll say it's United, because finances are spotty and they need the injection. Spurs would like nothing more than finally winning some silverware. But a loss for them would be less impactful. Both sides will want to win, but SPurs would still be Spurs. United needs the UCL for the cash and the attraction as they attempt to once again overhaul the squad. Offering Champion's League is a big draw for top players.

 

Either way, this should be entertaining. I say United edge it 2-1.