...::[The Footy Desk]::... (Part 2)

[Jason]

I adore Mainoo but him staying on wouldn't have changed anything, the way we play is instilled into the squad and it's simply not good enough. We need a positive manager, a modern one. Southgate's done A LOT for England in his time, changed the culture, changed the whole feeling around England, and got us to two finals on top of that. But he's had two finals and frankly both finals were winnable, not easily, but winnable. He's failed twice and it can only be because this is his ceiling as a manager, but it's not the squads ceiling. The right, positive manager who can install a get the ball down and play attitude with off the ball movement is the way forward.

[Eutyphro]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

I adore Mainoo but him staying on wouldn't have changed anything, the way we play is instilled into the squad and it's simply not good enough. We need a positive manager, a modern one. Southgate's done A LOT for England in his time, changed the culture, changed the whole feeling around England, and got us to two finals on top of that. But he's had two finals and frankly both finals were winnable, not easily, but winnable. He's failed twice and it can only be because this is his ceiling as a manager, but it's not the squads ceiling. The right, positive manager who can install a get the ball down and play attitude with off the ball movement is the way forward.

Yeah, I fundamentally agree with your analysis here.

Maybe England should hire Rangnick to be honest lol

[Jason]

So often in the first half Foden or Bellingham got the ball and their only option was to run it down the line, which is not their game. That's a byproduct of the shape, 3/5 ATB, which has been good for us in possession but we saw tonight what happens when we don't have a lot of possession. On top of that, Kane was often deeper than our two 10's and that just can't happen when we're set up to counter.

[Eutyphro]

Yeah, the shape didn't fit the players, especially Bellingham under performed. Quite generally Englands football lacked attacking intent. It lacked courage. Everything was conservative and boring about how they played, except for generally small parts of games when they went a goal down. They do need a new coach, one that actually organizes them in a manner so they know how to attack.

[Jason]

The shape was literally YOLO'd together mid tournament, which is part of the problem w/ Southgate as I've said for years now.

 

He doesn't build a team, a shape and and a way of playing outside of tournaments.

[LongHairedFreakyGuy]

56 minutes ago, Jason said:

The shape was literally YOLO'd together mid tournament, which is part of the problem w/ Southgate as I've said for years now.

 

He doesn't build a team, a shape and and a way of playing outside of tournaments.

 

Was like they'd had zero training as a squad at times. Hard to point out another team that had so much frustration at each other within the squad on the playing field due to lack of options when needing to pass the ball or create a running chance. The 2 goals came from some simple, yet great, passing between Spain that broke our defense and showed our weakness. 

 

I appreciate what he's done, but Southgate needs to go. 

[TheSantader25]

They will probably give the ballon d'or to either vinicius or Bellingham but i would give it to either Rodri or Carvajal. Carvajal in particular has been immense in both spain and Madrid this season and i think he's highly underrated. Last year his legs were gone and i thought Madrid had to replace him but somehow he came back in form this year.

 

Rodri is becoming Busquets 2 basically. I call him modern busquets because some of his abilities are more suited to modern football.

 

Spain in the end were a team. The dynamic and the selection was so good that it felt like even if half the players were injured the bench could just compensate. The team was in complete harmony.

[smokeless6]

Congrats to Spain, they were the class of the tournament and deserved to win.

Condolences to England, and England supporters. This one has to sting, and to get an equalizer and then have it snatched away is cruel. England have a great record in recent major tournaments, but need to figure out how to take the final step.

Watching the match today, it felt like England were set up not to lose. It was only after falling behind that they played to win and looked a totally different team. The second half was entertaining, and England looked dangerous, especially once Kane came off. He's earned his place with his excellence down the years, but he was off-song in this tournament. Watkins' mobility really opened things up, and was in stark contrast to how they were playing with Kane in the game. Of course they were now chasing an equalizer, but you could see the lanes and channels the movement was creating.

In the World Cup I couldn't believe Foden didn't start over Grealish. This time around it's Mainoo over Palmer. Palmer had to be in the starting lineup and I think that was a mistake. Southgate gets credit for reaching another final, but from my point of view it was probably despite him, rather than because of him. I felt like this England squad were capable of better things. That they made the final was due more to their half of the draw than the way they played.

[Eutyphro]

It's very hard, almost impossible, for a defensively oriented player to actually win Ballon D'or. Very unlikely for that to happen. There's some seasons where I think Kante should have been a contender, but he never was.

[Jason]

Mainoo starting over Palmer is perfectly fine lol.

 

Foden and Kane didn't turn up, and it's very arguable that Palmer should've took Foden's spot mid tournament and Kane should've also been dropped. If Mainoo wasn't gonna start it will have only been to drop Bellingham alongside Rice, which I don't think was the play.

 

Our best eleven needs figuring out, I don't think 4231 is the way forward, it seems kinda easy to play against but maybe that's just the managers setup. I'd rather we go with the modern 4-3-3 and have one sitter and two 8's, Bellingham being one and either Foden or Mainoo being the other. If we had another sitting midfielder, maybe Wharton long term, then Rice as an 8 could also work. But we need three in midfield, that's for sure.

 

Up front  I think Saka on the right proved why he starts there, but with Kane's legs gone I'd like to see Palmer start down the middle, he can score and create and has good pace, I think it's worth trying at the least. Finding our left winger will also be important, be it Rashford returning to form, Grealish or Foden finding form out there or what, but we absolutely have to figure that out.

 

In defence we need to find our long term centreback partnership, Stones and Guehi were good and maybe they can be it, but we can no longer rely on Walker at this age. Left back we have good options, but all are unreliable, so we need to start figuring that out ASAP too - Lewis Hall probably being the top candidate.

 

 

[TheSantader25]

I think Walker was actually one of your best players during the tournament. But obviously he is getting old and needs a replacement. Southgate had the right idea for 3ATB. But he messed up the front line. He should have played 352 and used two forwards and the top with Bellingham behind. Kane wouldn't look so lost and disconnected in this case. Again this stuff should be figured out during friendlies not in the middle of the f*cking tournament. 

Edited July 15, 2024 by TheSantader25

[Jason]

Walker had a slow start but came into more in the semi. I thought he had a really good first half in the final honestly, felt he put Williams in his pocket quite comfortably. We just simply conceded to two moves where we got caught with a man out of position and Spain punished us both times.

 

But Walker's like 34 and his legs ARE going to go at some point. We can't be relying on him again by the time the WC comes around.

[UT1-Dot]

Southgate has resigned.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c978e37ld7ro.amp

[Eutyphro]

12 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

I think Walker was actually one of your best players during the tournament. But obviously he is getting old and needs a replacement. Southgate had the right idea for 3ATB. But he messed up the front line. He should have played 352 and used two forwards and the top with Bellingham behind. Kane wouldn't look so lost and disconnected in this case. Again this stuff should be figured out during friendlies not in the middle of the f*cking tournament. 

Yeah, Walker is excellent and a specialist at playing against opponent wingers with pace. I think he's underrated at this point, because he is able to do things due to his pace that not many defenders can do. Imagine playing Akanji against someone like Mbappe or Vinicius in that right side of a back three. They would shred him to pieces.

 

Walker was also excellent against Gakpo, and that was fundamental for England winning. The pace Walker has at his age is extremely impressive. I can remember someone like Maicon at Inter whose legs at that age were completely gone.

Edited July 16, 2024 by Eutyphro

[LongHairedFreakyGuy]

9 minutes ago, UT1-Dot said:

Southgate has resigned.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c978e37ld7ro.amp

 

Yep, was inevitably going to happen, no matter the result of the tournament. And to be fair to him, it's hard to deny him his achievements whilst in charge, but it was definitely time for a change. 

[Jason]

Yea it was expected. I don't think he could do another tournament, I don't think he wanted to.

 

His impact has been huge, he's changed a lot of things around the mens team for the better and he'll be remembered for that. If we go on to have success in the future, he'll be recognised as the man who helped lay the foundations for that.

 

But as a manager he took us far as he can. I've seen some nonense by even Jamie Carragher trying to push all the blame on the players and yes sure, individual performances weren't great, but the attitude, mentality and bravery we need this squad to have clearly wasn't being put into the players. Something WAS off for a group of players who have won trophies playing great football at their clubs suddenly come ot England and play negatively. We need a fresh approach to change that now.

 

I reckon Graham Potter's been licking his lips all summer for this moment, he'll probably be a strong candidate for the job. Howe maybe too, but I don't think he'll want to leave Newcastle at the moment. Poch and Tuchel have been mentioned by some as outside chances but I don't see either tbh.

[Guest]

@Jason I seriously feel bad about United, four major injuries in a week and in preseason. Maybe the entire medical and fitness staff should be replaced. At this point, it's either their fault or Pogba has put a curse on the entire club. 

 

Anyway, good displays from Milan against Madrid and City, but I won't be convinced with Fonseca until like half a season. So far we've signed Morata and Pavlovic. I've doubt about Morata at first, but what he had done as Spain's captain during Euro convinces me. He can fill the void that Giroud left.

 

Still need to clear out the deadwoods like Origi. Even if we have a B-team called Milan Futuro now, there still no place for too much players.

[Jason]

Lovely.

 

By all accounts we've been needing to sell to buy, so it might be time for some creativity with our finances to fund another CB.

[RDRoy2]

Is there a Premier League predictions thread anywhere in this subforum? I remember doing it here 10 years ago around the 2012/13 season. 

 

Maybe the name has changed or I'm just not using the right search

 

Edit: Found it, but last rendition seems to be 2020/21

Edited August 1, 2024 by RDRoy2

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

By all accounts we've been needing to sell to buy, so it might be time for some creativity with our finances to fund another CB.

I would've loved to sign Mount to replace Adli. He could be our 10 with Pulisic in right wing, or our 8 partnered with Reijnders, RLC, or Bennacer. If we actually buy Tammy Abraham as rumored, we could've had a team of pre-Boehly Chelsea  But the way our club operate, there's no way we would ever sign a player for 40m+ and 250k a week.

 

By the way, since the UCL group stage is changing into a Swiss league format, can we have a UCL prediction like the Premier League's one?

[Jason]

Never took part in any prediction stuff in the past (not my thing, really), but anyone is free to create their own.

 

Seeing we're back in for De Ligt, looking for a double deal with him and Mazaroui from Bayern. Sounds like Bayern rebuffed our first offer, which raised some eyebrows all round (their agent and us) cause it looks like Bayern have put the price up beyond what they initially set out. But I imagine it'll get done.

 

That no doubt means AWB is on the way out, and most likely McTominay as well. Not against either going out, McTominay is a poor midfielder but has his moments here and there. AWB is a 1v1 specialist and probably the best in the world at it, but it's his last year and we need someone better going forward, I just hope Mazaroui can stay fit cause apparently he's had some issues with injuries over the past few year. I do reckon AWB will be a big hit at West Ham though, I think he'll do very well there.

[Eutyphro]

Whenever United is on a good trajectory you can always depend on former players to try to sabotage it and bring in negative energy for no reason:

https://www.givemesport.com/rio-ferdinand-concerned-about-man-utd-signing-matthijs-de-ligt/

Edited August 11, 2024 by Eutyphro

[Jason]

Rio Ferdinand doesn't have opinions of his own, he just repeats what's being said on social media, he goes which ever way the wind is blowing and has done for a long time now. He's more focused on being appealable than he is being correct or detailed in his opinions, and as a result looks like an idiot most of the time these days. Had a lot of promise as a pundit in his early years, but he had a spell where he was pushed hard as BT/TNT's number 1 football pundit in the UK, the networks equivalent to Sky's Neville and Carragher, and is now pretty widely regarded as one of the more terrible mainstream pundits in the UK.

 

When it comes to United, he's been one of the most problematic voices for years. Him and other ex-United players thought they knew better and it was clear the previous leadership would listen to them on some stuff.

[Eutyphro]

United honestly has the worst ex players in terms of how they affect team morale. No other club has anything that comes close. It is almost as of they don't want the current team to do well and push the memory of their success further away.

 

I actually really like Roy Keane or Scholes some of the time, but we can't deny they also hurt their club with things they say.

Edited August 12, 2024 by Eutyphro

[TheSantader25]

I would like to use this moment to remind everyone that Paul Pogba has been quite terrible at United.

 

We were decent in preseason friendlies but I've learned that friendlies don't mean sh*t. We'll see how the season goes.

Edited August 12, 2024 by TheSantader25

[wqx]

Real Madrid has absolutly no structure

[Eutyphro]

That was an incredibly boring half of football.

[Jason]

Some positives, some things to work on. The shape looked better, especially in midfield, Casemiro had a decent game, Maguire was great until he went off (with a knock I think?), Mazraouri looked really solid, Zirkzee with a debut goal, Mount looked decent as well, Mainoo, Onana too. Dominated the first half after a few mins of a bright start from Fulham, once Martinez figured out Traore, but second hand when we brought Zirkzee on we started forcing it way too much, idk if that was cause they saw a 6'4 striker up top or if legs were going or what, but it lead to a loss of control in the game and resulted in Fulham getting one or two very big chances for counters.

 

No striker isn't the way to go, I expect ETH knows this it's just getting Zirkzee up to sppeed and Hojlund fit, but yea, Bruno up top is so wasted. But at the end of the day, 1 game, 1 win, and a deserved win over the course of 90 mins for me.

[Eutyphro]

For a first game in a new shape and implementing a whole bunch of new players it was pretty okay. I really want to see the de Ligt Martinez tandem get up to speed. I think that could be a deadly combo that could give a lot of security to the team.

Edited August 17, 2024 by Eutyphro

[Guest]

That's the best United's opener game since like forever.