...::[The Footy Desk]::... (Part 2)

[Jason]

Ohhhhh yes.

[TheSantader25]

England played much better imo. deserved. Koeman failed to adapt his tactics throughout the game. Gonna be an interesting final. I believe it's been a while since Spain and England have met in a major tournament. 

Edited July 10, 2024 by TheSantader25

[Jason]

Koeman changed the game in the second half, packing the midfield and bringing on Wout for some directness, and it made for a fairly even second half I thought. Overall I think we were the better team because of the 1st half, but that penalty was a bit of luck, but then again to win a knockout cup you more often than not need a bit of luck.

 

Spain will be a different kettle of fish, that'll be an interesting midfield battle to say the least, but I do think they're gettable in defence and they've had a tendency to tire out in the last 30, and our options off the bench for those periods are very, very good.

[UT1-Dot]

I was impressed with The Netherlands as they changed the game honestly and we won because of an outrageous finish.

Also it was never a Penalty.

I guess thats what you get when you give a referee accused of match fixing the Euros semi

[Eutyphro]

Football's coming home.

[Eutyphro]

26 minutes ago, UT1-Dot said:

I was impressed with The Netherlands as they changed the game honestly and we won because of an outrageous finish.

Also it was never a Penalty.

I guess thats what you get when you give a referee accused of match fixing the Euros semi

I actually agree with this take and most other posts reacting to the game by the way. Penalty was a total farce and Neville said so as well.

[Jason]

Double positive for an English United fan, England are in a final and United can progress with the De Ligt and Zirkzee deals. 

 

And yea, very soft pen. I can see why it was given... but no. It was an attempted block and it's Kane's follow through from getting a clean shot away that made the contact. It's easy to squint your eyes and go talk about studs up and all that and say it was actually a pen, but if you start giving pens for raised legs where the forward initiates the contact and hits a defender attempting to block a ball with their legs it's a massively slippery slope.

 

We deserved to win overall, but we got a bit of luck along the way. Not our fault and nothing to be ashamed of, you need a bit of luck to win tournaments, it's part of football.

 

Decent tournament for the Dutch, I didn't expect them to get this far with the squad they have and no FDJ, but they've got a decent and pretty well balanced squad, with quite a few good younger players too. Might need a more progressive manager to get the best out out of them, though.

[LongHairedFreakyGuy]

21 hours ago, LongHairedFreakyGuy said:

If only I'd actually have listened to my gut instincts and put a bet on Spain to win the Euros. Thought they looked strong even in the group stages, and I fully expect them to win this tournament now.

 

As much as people criticised out last performance, compared to our previous games I thought we were pretty decent and actually looked like we wanted the win, and if we then up the same tomorrow we could get in the finals... 

 

See, called it! Hopefully only the latter part of this post is true though, though I can't see it happening at all, not against Spain. Saying that though, not just because we won, but the whole squad seemed more confident tonight, from the passes to the positioning, though at times you could see the likes of Foden getting irate at the lack of players pushing forward for the pass. 

 

Even as an England fan I don't think that was a penalty though, but hey ho! 

 

 

[Shyabang Shyabang]

Jesse Lingard joined FC Seoul in the K-League:

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2024 by Shyabang Shyabang

[Jason]

He's only 31, he should be in the Prem still really, it's a bit shocking how his career fell apart. Should never have turned down West Ham to stay at a United team he was never gonna get a game in, and then by the sounds of it once his deal expired he was asking for really high wages and never delivered when he got them at Forest.

[Eutyphro]

18 hours ago, Jason said:

Double positive for an English United fan, England are in a final and United can progress with the De Ligt and Zirkzee deals. 

As for this, I think De Ligt + Martinez has the potential to be the best centerback pairing in the world if it actually happens. I think i mentioned the prospect of de Ligt to Man U before in this thread.

People are confused about de Ligt's abilities because at the Netherlands he is benched behind one of the best in the world van Dijk and de Vrij, but this has a specific reason that de Ligt does not function well generally in certain roles a back three system it seems, and Koeman wants to have the capacity to switch to a back three if he has to. De ligt though is definitely one of the most talented CB's in the world, and a perfect pairing for Lisandro Martinez.

 

As for Zirkzee, I don't know a whole lot about him, but he is spoken highly of by many people.

[Jason]

Bayern fans don't want him to go, that says it all about De Ligt's quality. We're getting a good player.

 

Zirkzee is almost done, medical tomorrow per Ornstein. De Ligt is close, he's given us the green light and ONLY wants to come to us, and is takin a pay cut reportedly. Just need to agree the fee and the deals structure which won't be an issue obviously.

 

Two positive signings, done nice and early, no doing 1 deal at a time like we've done for years. It's nice.

[Eutyphro]

De Ligt is an absolute monster defender and perfect for the Premier League.

[Jason]

I'm sus we'll get much for Greenwood tbh. Marseille supposedly agreed a 25-30m fee with us, but then they got a lot of public backlash including from the mayor of the city and it's went very quiet all of a sudden.

 

I don't blame the fans of these clubs one bit, but I do hope we get something for him because as he's an academy product it'd be good for our FFP and our budget this season.

 

We're also still in for one of Branthwaite or Leny Yoro as well, having agreed a fee for Yoro but it's very TBD if he'll come to us over Madrid. We'll likely lose out over Yoro, but it's nice to see our board try their luck and work on multiple things at a time. It's not a meme or a joke that prior to INEOS the board would only ever work on 1 transfer deal at a time, which would result in our business often dragging on until late and missing possible targets.

[cactus.]

On 7/10/2024 at 5:08 PM, Jason said:

Spain will be a different kettle of fish, that'll be an interesting midfield battle to say the least, but I do think they're gettable in defence and they've had a tendency to tire out in the last 30, and our options off the bench for those periods are very, very good.

 

Yep, I just hope Southgate doesn't wait until the 80th minute to introduce the subs.. as soon as Palmer is on England become a different beast in attack. While Kane was noticeably better in the last game, if he's up to his usual form (in this tourney) then he needs to be replaced at 60' if not sooner. 

[LongHairedFreakyGuy]

Yep, managed to get away with it this last game because the subs were the ones to win the game, but yeah, his sub management is somewhat questionable. 

[Jason]

Anxiety has been through the roof all day.

 

Another loss in a final would be heartbreaking.

[wqx]

The potential reasons why Bayern wants to sell De Ligt are

a) his opening is weak compared to their other options

b) on average he is slower compared to other center-backs and Bayern wants to go back to a high possession system with defenders who stay very close to the middle line

c) he simply earns too much money because the previous managers handed to some players too "generous" contracts and they are in a process of reverting that

d) apperantly they are a bit indifferent who of their centre-backs will leave. Thus, they said to all of them that they can leave if they want to and hope that atleast 1-2 will leave.

[Eutyphro]

36 minutes ago, wqx said:

The potential reasons why Bayern wants to sell De Ligt are

a) his opening is weak compared to their other options

What do you mean?
 

Quote

b) on average he is slower compared to other center-backs and Bayern wants to go back to a high possession system with defenders who stay very close to the middle line

De Ligt is plenty quick actually and I think this is not true.
 

Quote

d) apperantly they are a bit indifferent who of their centre-backs will leave. Thus, they said to all of them that they can leave if they want to and hope that atleast 1-2 will leave.

That doesn't sound like a very competent transfer policy.

[LongHairedFreakyGuy]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

Anxiety has been through the roof all day.

 

Another loss in a final would be heartbreaking.

 

Think it's fair to say we've both matched each other equally in this match. Controversial to say that Bellingham seems a bit off, as he has pretty much every game? I know it's become part of the modern game to play for a foul, but bar that odd set up he produced, he just doesn't seem on top of his game right now. Walker so far impressing me. 

 

Edit to add that Shaw is doing brilliantly too. 

Edited July 14, 2024 by LongHairedFreakyGuy

[Jason]

Spain are VERY gettable at the back, Rodri is massive but the rest of their defence? Very gettable.

 

Our issue is getting out, and I suspect Watkins or Toney will be on at some point relatively early in the second half if we don't get hold of possession. Spain in games I've seen do tend to tire in the last half hour and start to lose control of possession, we'll see if it happens here.

[wqx]

23 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

What do you mean?

Game opening/ play making capebilities

 

23 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

De Ligt is plenty quick actually and I think this is not true.

He is according to bundesliga.com rank 247 while Upamecano and Kim are in the top 100 and their new transfer target Tah is also in top 100.

 

[Jason]

F*ck sake... Not switching on at the start of the half, basic stuff. Great finish though.

[Eutyphro]

25 minutes ago, wqx said:

Game opening/ play making capebilities

 

He is according to bundesliga.com rank 247 while Upamecano and Kim are in the top 100 and their new transfer target Tah is also in top 100.

So that's probably a stat purely on the basis of top speed which is not very useful, as acceleration is probably just as or more important, and who happens to actually hit their legitimate top speed in a game is kinda arbitrary. Judging a defender on the top speed sprinting they reach in a season is absolutely silly stuff. I've never considered de Ligt slow, and the reason ten Hag wants him is cause he is actually extremely good for a defensive high line. I can't really find clips of him running on full sprint speed except one from training which is this:

I feel as though he rarely has to run full speed as he reads situations well, and tracks his opponent well.
You think this guy looks slow:

Furthermore, I would not typify him as a playmaking centerback, but he's still very comfortable on the ball. He has incredible jump and athleticism and tackling abilities, and is not specifically a playmaking centerback.

Edited July 14, 2024 by Eutyphro

[Eutyphro]

Football did not come home.

[TheSantader25]

England look good when they actually try to play football. It's a shame they only decide to do it 10 minutes per game. Spain missed so many chances. Could have been much easier. I'm surprised they played this coordinated this tournament. Very well balanced squad selection by the manager I'm quite surprised.

[LongHairedFreakyGuy]

So close. 

[UT1-Dot]

Oh well, I mainly care about Palace anyway.

Hopefully we will have some players left after this summer is over.

[Jason]

Not good enough in possession and that's it really. Spain are gonna dominate the ball for spells, that's the way they play, but so many times we had the ball down in a position to start a counter and we did nothing with it, often forcing it or just clearing it. Kane's legs have gone, either we need to build the team around him or phase him out. And more importantly, we need to be able to play in possession and combine in the exact way Spain showed today.

 

I was watching us in the last 10, especially after their goal, just f*cking booting up the pitch despite having time. Free kicks from the edge of our box, route one-ing it. Lads, play, we've got the players, work a cross, win a corner, we aren't gonna score directly from route one like that.

 

There were reports the FA wanted Southgate to stay, win or lose, and for sure now that'd be a big mistake. We need a new idea, a new plan, someone forward thinking in charge. Potter's name will probably get thrown about I suspect.

[Eutyphro]

I think they lost the balance of their team setup when they took Kobbie off. Bringing on Palmer was the right pick, but Foden should've been taken off and not Kobbie probably. But for that moment in the game it worked and it got them back in it, but eventually Spain started controlling the game again, and was just better. Spain without Rodri was a compromised Spain, but Spain proved they could even play really well without Rodri who is potentially their most fundamental player.

Edited July 14, 2024 by Eutyphro